Forum Topic

Wheelie bins

So the Brains of Hounslow suggest the imposition of Wheelie Bins will save ££££££sQuite how is quite beyond me.How a saving can be made when these things cost to purchase, have a durability life of just a few years before they go brittle and look hideous1. Cost of the units and short life per cost per year.2.Black bags are paid for by residents not the council.3. Where do you store one in small terraced streets for example, when it is is impossible to keep even a bicycle.?4. If plonked outside like in Fulham the stench from just one unkempt bin lingers along the whole street and leave the view out of the front window obcured and darkens the front room.5. Cannot be moved easily in tightly parked streets meaning longer collection times and thus increases in fuel and operating costs.6. Streets will still need to be cleaned afterwards as spillages remain the same.7. Those with more extreme anti social habits seem to delight in depositing in these.8. Hugely unsightly especially in areas where multiple dwellings negate any form of stowage space or rented accommodation and lack of civic pride prevails.9. These things litter some streets for a full 24 hours making pavements hazardous to visually challenge and wheelchair users10. Vehicles are damaged regularly by them being mishandled or misused.11. Cost of conversion and extra depreciation on vehicles plus increase in CO2 footprint by plant.The cost of insurance claims, capital expenditure, time lost, fuel wasted, make this quite bonkers.Fine for streets with Driveways and side access or rear access but what about the smaller streets and those with none of those features?

Raymond Havelock ● 3940d57 Comments

Love Bobby's video!Oh and I think that they should do a public waste audit at ALL Council offices and particularly before residents have to tackle changes.  How many employees aren't participating?  How many Councillors don't themselves know what happens to recycling and what can be recycled?  (It is no excuse saying that your wife/husband is in charge of that.)

Philippa Bond ● 3929d

Me neither yet this usually works in this format.

Raymond Havelock ● 3929d

I can't open either of those photobucket links - what am I doing wrongly?

Trudie Fuller ● 3930d

A truly brilliant video and the irony will no doubt be lost on those fictional characters at Fortress Lampton !And if anyone is in any doubt about the permanent 24/7 impact of wheelie bins in the UK see these.[IMG]http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/ropeyalternator/wheeliebins3_zps64ec3a69.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/ropeyalternator/WheelieBins1_zpsbb3cfabf.jpg[/IMG]

Anthony Waller ● 3930d

There is far more recycling than there is residual waste nowadays and unfortunately the wheelie bins are too big for those who reduce their waste and recycle all they can and aren't big enough for those who don't who seem to expect them to swallow everything including old mattresses and sofas.Wheelie bins are loved by the collection companies who are busy marketing them to the Councils.  The fewer lorries and operatives these companies employ the cheaper it is for them to collect.  It is such a shame because if more attention was paid to other areas eg fining obvious and repeat offenders and providing much smaller bins and education then we could have a different situation.  In Brent you see large wheelie bins in concreted over front gardens which creates a very threatening streetscene AND there is still litter and waste everywhere. With the loss of porous surfaces there will be an increase in flooding and with the loss of gardens there will be fewer people passing the time of day over the garden fence.  In Brent it is like having three very big and supersized uninvited gatecrashers permanently camped out in what was once a garden. They really aren't a flexible enough solution for the different types of properties and needs that people have. There are streets populated by these huge things which are frightening to walk along.What is also noticeable is that the quality of recycling isn't as good and also the operatives do not have to have any knowledge of what is recyclable - they only have to learn how to empty the bin and in Bury this is once every three weeks for residual waste. So what may be a saving in one area may well be a loss somewhere else.The furore and publicity that the argument and threat of wheelie bins creates is much more likely to increase the recycling rate than the actual implementation of the policy.  Whenever there is publicity the rate is likely to increase!  However if the quality is reduced then that doesn't necessarily mean that there will be such a great saving especially when there is no incentive there.Ealing's last change in contractor was a complete shambles causing over a year of trouble including the memorable problems of bringing vehicles far too large to go down many of the streets...  putting many people off recycling altogether... who had previously been recycling and there are still areas with no recycling.

Philippa Bond ● 3930d

Being bumped so you can all see this very funny video from Bobby Osborne in Chiswick.

Trudie Fuller ● 3930d

bobby osborne ● 3931d

Do as the residents of the Glebe Estate in Chiswick.  One of them has produced this wonderful video - it's compulsive viewing and very funny and hopefully is being sent to the head honcho at LBH. http://youtu.be/BnbfdmWXK-k

Trudie Fuller ● 3931d

Can we petition against Hounslow Council's plans? I certainly am furious with the thought of a wheelie bin clogging my beautiful front garden.

Nilam Melvin ● 3933d

Does no one see these filthy throwing their rubbish all over the place?  I suggest all public spirited people, when ever they witness someone doing this, approaches and speaks up.  I've rather bravely asked school children to pick up their sweet and crisp packets and put them in the often very close by bin.  They stare at me as if I'm mad, but after a while and with me repeating my request and pointing out that if everyone threw their rubbish on the ground we'd be neck deep and having to fight off rats, they get the message and comply.  A lot of the time it is laziness and thoughtfulness.

Trudie Fuller ● 3933d

I'm not sure how or why you think that council provided bags would make any difference to what you describe. People need to start taking some interest, and dare I say it, pride in their local environment. I agree Hounslow is appalling - but the council doesn't leave all the crap laying around, ignorant, anti-social people who live in the area do. The Bell Rd. carpark is always festooned in bags over the weekend - really disgusting.

Vanessa Smith ● 3934d

The general concensus seems to be that there is relatively little general rubbish to be collected.So why are we being given relatively large wheelie bins?Am I very synical to suggest that in future collections will not be weekly but fortnightly.Like many others I have a tiny front garden with no rear access.On green waste recycling weeks the various containers will fully occupy the length of the path and it will be impossible to open the gate.My solution may be to cease card, glass and paper recycling that week and put such items in a black bag in the wheelie bin.I am exploring wheelie bin camouflage on line in order to laminate the sides of the container which will unfortunately sit next to my front door.Placing bins in the street is not a solution.The RNIB will confirm that.

David R Rowlands ● 3934d

Quite true Vanessa.Started by Thatchers government but embraced by all subsequent governments irresepective of party colours.Problem was, the Thatcher era that started this had council employees at the forefront of the great British skive.Almost all of state run industries, and authorities were riddled with unions playing games, from schools to buses, hospitals to road sweepers, nothing was being done and what was done was to the lowest quality.That period in the 1970s was awful and a mix of laziness, slovenliness and general run down set things up for Thatcher.The trouble is Greed went unchecked as did the fast buck and run culture.And here we are nearly 35 years later and nothing has really changed.Everything is now all smoke and mirrors.

Anthony Waller ● 3934d

Outsourcing like privatisation was always going to be a bonanza for private companies. Unless whoever is outsourcing the service is so clever they can draw up a contract that covers any eventuality and is 100% watertight then there are going to be problems. The goal is always profit and sod the service element, you only have to look at the utilities to see a prime example, there is nothing wrong in a business making profits that's what they are there for, but there are some things that are too important to be left to market forces, the social element goes out of the window. That's what you get with an ideologically driven government. Councils have been put in an unenviable position.

Vanessa Smith ● 3934d

That's a vile amount of money for a business of this kind.It's far from rocket science. £70-80 is enough.Yet another example of how useless tendering out services is and how the real savings would be dispensing with directors that are not required.How can it be 'cheaper' to outsource.Either there's a lot of fiddling been going on or front line staff are being seriously underpaid.

Anthony Waller ● 3934d

Directorsare paid between £110 and £140K I believe. All senior salaries are shown on the webpage

Steve Taylor ● 3936d

How much are they paid for their lazy approach to this rubbish/recycling problem?

Trudie Fuller ● 3936d

"That's more to do with people.""At least the bags are there for just a few hours."Yes I agree it is to do with people. - Hounslow people - !!The black bags are there for just a few hours but the debris will be there for days. Ground into pavements / roads etc. The street sweepers rarely appear these days and litter pickers only cover main streets. By the time the place shows some reasonable appearance again, the cycle starts again. However I agree that Hounslow Borough as a whole is not 'user friendly' for wheelie bins. Far too many narrow streets and terraced housed without from gardens etc. This idea was not thought through. The appears to have been no proper consultation. Its the brainchild of one or two Council officers who obviously haven't a clue of what really goes on within the Borough.

Steve Taylor ● 3938d

That's more to do with people. And the fact that plastic bags are biodegradable and too flimsy.A simple solution would be for the council to supply bags of a suitable uniform standard at cost price to residents.Take a look at places with wheely bins, it is just as filthy as no one ever cleans them.These things stay like that all week. Stinking week in week out. A real 24/7 health hazard.At least the bags are there for just a few hours.In any case the recycling sack system works well so why not a sack to contain the black bags?How simple and cost effective is that?

Raymond Havelock ● 3938d

"the decision that the council would not provide black plastic bags anymore was taken, but we survived "We survived yes. But my GOD - take a drive through Hounslow this morning and see what people have trashed in flimsy white, green, blue, black and orange bags. See how stupid some people are and how dog, cat, fox, birds etc have attacked the bags and scattered litter all over the place. Hounslow central looks like a third world tip. Its quite disgraceful. And will the bag men clear up the litter? I think not. And will the thicko residents clear up the mess they have created? I think not.

Steve Taylor ● 3938d

Progress it is not.They take longer to unload and manouvere. They cost a fortune in payouts from damage to parked vehicles in tightly parked streets, the equipment fitted to vehicles is costly to install and maintain and renders the vehicles less versatile.It increases fuel usage as the lifting movements are increased by a 30:1 ratioThis increases the carbon footprint hugely.Collecting times are increased as a dozen bags can be loaded in seconds but it takes 30 seconds to load one wheely bin in accordance with correct H&S practice.Spillage is about the same from bags or wheely bins.  Easily borne out by following a wheely bin collection.Black bag collection is so minimal now that most bags will be unreachable inside a bin.It is a wholly uneccessary whim.No doubt a coincidence that the suppliers of such items are very closely linked by holding companies to the contractors.I wonder which councillors and officers went on the recent operator sponsored junket to Portugal? Gold and a display of...wheely bins I'm told.

Raymond Havelock ● 3938d

At the risk of being branded heartless and uncaring - has anyone heard of a bucket and broom if required? Wheelies have been used all over the country for years seemingly without all this hoo-ha. I can well remember the massive fuss when the decision that the council would not provide black plastic bags anymore was taken, but we survived - and I am sure we will survive wheelie bins, it's progress.

Vanessa Smith ● 3938d

http://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/200969/refuse_services/259/refuse_collections/3Their 2007 arrangements seem sensible. Did they work out?

Jim Lawes ● 3938d

Cheers Ann. Yes..we needed a laugh.

Jim Lawes ● 3938d

"Some council officers are clearly not fit for purpose. Maybe they will fit in a wheely bin"Thank you for a much needed laugh  :)

Ann Haddleton ● 3938d

How can you hose a wheely bin out when tou cannot get it through the house to the back?Would you run a hose pipe through your house every few weeks to hose out a wheely bin?Do you expect elderly folk to do that?It's wholly impractical for small terraced houses and ideal if you have a side access to a garden or a driveway.Some council officers are clearly not fit for purpose. Maybe they will fit in a wheely bin.

Anthony Waller ● 3938d

"I really wonder how the human race has progressed sometimes."Unfortunately (in the UK) we haven't progressed because we are a Nanny State. The French, Germans, Americans, Canadians, Australians seem to be doing just fine.

Steve Taylor ● 3939d

The real problem, as some of you have noticed, is how wheelie bins will function in rows of terraced houses fronting onto the pavement. They will either have to be housed in front rooms on non-collection days or placed on the pavement for the amusement of vandals.JL

Jim Linwood ● 3939d

You can buy bigger black bags to line a wheelie, you do not have to just sling stuff in it, surely to God people line their food caddies? I buy biodegradable liners online for that and wouldn't dream of just slinging leftovers in it. So there are few excuses, and I have said that not everyone will find wheelies useful, but this is not the end of civilisation as we know it, they are big bins for Heaven's sake! I really wonder how the human race has progressed sometimes.

Vanessa Smith ● 3939d

"that's plain lazy, they'll have to hose their bin out won't they?"  That of course on the assumption that everyone has a nice garden and a hose.

Steve Taylor ● 3939d

That really says it all.

Trudie Fuller ● 3939d

Vanessa: "admittedly we will be able to keep the bin at the back and just wheel it down the side of the house for collection"You might feel rather differently if you had to wheel it through your house each week.

Ann Haddleton ● 3939d

For God's sake is there nothing that people won't go on about? We don't put any waste food in our black bag as it goes in the green waste bin, but that doesn't stop the bag from being ripped at times and leaving rubbish all over the place.  If idiots can't wrap their rubbish up before putting in the wheelie that's plain lazy, they'll have to hose their bin out won't they? As they don't do it with the current bins why would they do it when that changes? We shall keep our old dustbin for the garage refuse, a little bit of positivity might come in useful?????

Vanessa Smith ● 3939d

".. we will likely only ever have one not full-up plastic bag, that will go in the bin and be wheeled out"In that case isn't it expensive overkill to spend a fortune on converting the collection trucks and buying the wheelie bins just so one half-filled black sack can be taken a few feet from your home to the refuse truck?  It's utter madness - foxes are only going to rip, open bags if they smell food - use the food waste lockable bins, that's why our beloved Council issued them!  Don't put food into the black bin bags!  Rinse out all food containers before putting them into the appropriate re-cycling container.Jim's lovely picture further demonstrates how stupid these bloody great wheelie bins are - who is going to clean them out when unwrapped revolting rubbish is tipped in and left.  Not the depositer you can bet, they'll just carry on week after week chucking in their unwrapped food and mess etc stinking the street out.Incidentally, does LBH intend collecting everyones' suddenly un-useable dustbins and lids?

Trudie Fuller ● 3939d

Only a small front garden?You're lucky!Lol.Some roads in Brentford have terraced houses with no front garden at all!The front door is just about on the pavement!New Road?Windmill Road South (east side)York Parade.Albany Road (parts of)Parts of Enfield Road.(opposite the Lord Nelson)Parts of Green Dragon Lane opp the Steam Museam.Will there be exceptions to the Council's rule?

Jim Lawes ● 3939d

They'll be new business opportunities when the Scheme gets extended.  Cleaning services for wheelie bins!Many households keep their front paths immaculate with their own mini sheds and tasteful containers for hiding bins and sacks.  There are others that are and will be a complete eyesore.And how much will a replacement Wheelie Bins cost to replace if it gets stolen? 

Jim Lawes ● 3939d

I guess you will never make everyone happy. The choice is scattered litter from torn black bags (which are put out too early and no fines from the Council) or wheelie bins blocking side walks or left on their sides causing an eyesore when irresponsible residents could't be bothered to put them away. I say choice - but we don't seem to have one.

Steve Taylor ● 3939d

I daresay that little will change - we will likely only ever have one not full-up plastic bag, that will go in the bin and be wheeled out. Is anyone saying that you have to stuff a wheelie bin to the limit? It is the muck and mess that seems to be around on collection days that might change though. When we had a house in Huddersfield we got two wheelies one for domestic refuse and one for all the recycling, although the things that they recycled were different to here, then it was taken away and sorted, something else that the government might like to tackle? Everyone recycling the same things would be really useful.

Vanessa Smith ● 3939d

To Vannessa and any others that like the Wheelie Bin.  Please explain, assuming you are re-cycling, what on earth do you fill up your wheelie bin with???I only manage a small supermarket bag of "black bin" refuse a week.

Trudie Fuller ● 3939d

"Vanessa will approve too if only on the grounds of nostalgia."Unfair and incorrect, wheelies will be ideal for where we live, that is not to say that they will be great for everyone else. I was involved in looking at having these way back in the late 80s and had I had my way we'd have gone ahead then, a certain Cllr. Connelly put the kibosh in that idea! Most of us getting these will have the old dustbins which we can now get rid of, so we're not getting anymore to clutter things up, and if this helps stop split black bags all over the place then great. I am not that convinced they will necessarily lead to massive savings, but let's see. As wheelies are used all over the U.K. they can't be that awful, and I really doubt incidences of fly tipping will get worse, it's bloody awful now, so the Tidy Town scheme needs to be boosted which would be a big help.

Vanessa Smith ● 3939d

I too live in Enfield Road, and also produce about one very small bag of rubbish a week.  Its utter madness to have a wheelie bin scheme in our street.  We have permitted car parking already on the pavements, which doesn't leave any room for wheelie bins, nor to open your car door.  Enfield Road is actually a very busy road with pedestrians and prams up and down all day, and they wont be able to walk on the pavement at all on bin day.

Emma Renton ● 3939d

The proposed LBH WB scheme  is mandatory. Those who recycle and leave out a small,black bag now get lumbered with a WB. A real incitement to recycle?They are a huge cost  plus  the additional the cost of converting the current vehicle fleet - £25k per vehicle. There is No reliable data confirming their introduction improves recycling. Proposed related 'savings ' include a large number of recycling sites closed! and additional charges  at recycling centre. An incitement not to recycle and fly-tip perhaps?Other local authorities Richmond Ealing allow residents to opt out and they have higher recycling rates. LBH as ever dictates and doesn't listen. Their So called WB trial ( funded with Govt funds) becomes permanent with a paucity of evidence and contradictory conclusion. Still Cllr John Chatt our Scrutiny supremo will rigorously assess the WB savings that actually cost. I'll monitor his vigorous approach. Vanessa will approve too if only on the grounds of nostalgia. History helps. Remember CIP and now HH? Both have bitten the dust having consumed millions of pounds of council tax and allowed grade 1sites in LBH to be put on the at risk Register and HH collapse with residents getting a wholly inadequate provision of services.Education and enforcement  would encourage recycling and improve our woeful recycling rate.Localism means getting locals involved.

John Todd ● 3939d

"Wonder what'll happen if we try putting out a black bag once the wheelie bins arrive"It will be illegal so it won't be collected.

Steve Taylor ● 3939d

"Wonder what'll happen if we try putting out a black bag once the wheelie bins arrive."Verboten - the Council won't collect black bags left on the pavement anymore or empty wheelie bins if their lids aren't shut.JL

Jim Linwood ● 3940d

We also only have 1 small black bag a week, and use something like this to put it out in: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Flexible-Red-Bucket-40L/p/119078 It's easy to carry through the house, the green box sits on top, and the foxes aren't interested...  Wonder what'll happen if we try putting out a black bag once the wheelie bins arrive (I can only see ours being used as garden storage...!)

Ann Haddleton ● 3940d

Raymond, That's such a perfect simple and practical idea I can't believe it's not been done before.  Briliiant!Like most households we only have a smallish black bag these days as the rest is in the recycling bags or the green box.Even those take up a bit of space but at least they can be folded and stashed after use.But a black or red or yellow sack with handles would easily hold up to 3 plastic sacks and contain them. As most people in our road don't put bags out till very late or the early hours because of the foxes and other vermin, that probably won't change - even with wheely bins.But a black sack with handles would be a great way to contain the plastic bags from potential damage and best of all not create a hazard for the rest of the week.So why has no-one in a professional capacity even thought or trialled this?Probably because 'sweeteners' are not involved with wheely bin suppliers and the usual suspects.

Anthony Waller ● 3940d

Because of recycling I only put out a black bag full of un- recyclable material every two or three weeks. I assume this is the same for most households so a much smaller wheelie bin should be an option.The worse dumping of rubbish bags is outside shops with flats above which happens throughout the week attracting vermin. The Council have taken no action in this matter.JL

Jim Linwood ● 3940d

well we simply have no space for it so it will have to go on the pavement.It cannot be wheeled or carried through the entire house. and there is nowhere to put the bikes or keep the gas meter access clear ( which is a legal requirement) apparently.Strong black sacks is a small simple solution.If it ain't broke.........

Raymond Havelock ● 3940d

Wonder what the workers and their Trades Union recommend.They're the ones who tour our streets every workday collecting up the black sacks and bags etc.It would be good to hear their views. My friendly bunch were Hungarian.I agree with the ChiswickW4.com poster who suggested that re-cycling properly is likely to diminish....especially  with WBs around.

Jim Lawes ● 3940d

For the record we don't remember getting 'consulted' about these bins coming into use, admittedly we will be able to keep the bin at the back and just wheel it down the side of the house for collection. But why oh why do people who don't agree go on as if it were a personal attack being done on purpose? Councils are having to look at all money saving ideas, and I daresay the very people up in arms would be the same ones who would castigate the council for being cavalier with their council tax. The day something happens that everyone is happy with will never dawn, that's life, we've got the new street lights - which seem to be fine - no-one as yet has reported any ill effects or other problems - now the wheelies - blimey will civilisation survive?!?!?!

Vanessa Smith ● 3940d

Vanessa, Wheelie bins are a wonderful idea if a) you have a large front garden, preferably with an area to store them discreetly, or b) have a gate from the back garden so they can be wheeled to the front on collection day. This isn't a 'whinge' (I quite like the street lights!), more highlighting the unsuitability on Enfield Road. It's a very unusual, attractive road in the area, which is now going to be rendered extremely unattractive due to a 'solution' we don't need. I very much doubt Enfield Road residents were amongst the majority in favour of the bins, and as you say yourself, 'granted there are some areas where they probably aren't suitable'.

Ann Haddleton ● 3940d

Its an interesting debate. In my household its two for the bins and one against. Talking to neighbours this morning there is a similar difference in opinion. I guess when it comes to 'curbside appearance' it depends how residents store the bins once they are emptied. Driving through some Yorkshire towns last month it seemed to me that people were pretty good and storing them neatly so they aren't an eyesore. However, this is Hounslow!!

Steve Taylor ● 3940d

"It seems a done deal, but is there any way we can appeal against this decision?"It seems to be a 'done deal' as it is quite an arrogant letter from Brendan Walsh, the director of environment.  He maintains that 94% of residents in the 5 trial areas are in favour of the bins but he doesn't say where the areas are. Was it a cross section of large properties and small properties or just in areas with wide roads and houses with larger front garden space?

Steve Taylor ● 3940d

We looked at wheelies many years ago and at that time the decision was made not to go ahead. Personally I think they are a good idea, and you should just see some of the comments on W4. You'd think it was the end of the world or something, if it's not the new street lights it'll be something else. What is wrong with people? Never happy unless they're whingeing, granted there are some areas where they probably aren't suitable, but let's keep things in proportion.

Vanessa Smith ● 3940d

I'm on Enfield Road, and we received our wheelie bin better today. It's madness - very few houses have room to store them at the front (and if they do, they'll look a dreadful mess), and I'm sure no-one wants to be wheeling them through the house every week (I certainly don't). We have very few split bags on the road, as most people store their bags in galvanised bins, storage boxes or similar, and are responsible enough to use decent black bags. It seems a done deal, but is there any way we can appeal against this decision?

Ann Haddleton ● 3940d

Enfield Road will love them I'm sure!

Jim Lawes ● 3940d

You make good points but......"2.Black bags are paid for by residents not the council."The problem, in my view, which makes our Borough look like such a dump is that I would guess about 30% of residents don't even use decent black bags or tie them up properly. They use flimsy Tescos bags or paper bags etc etc. The Council has every right to fine these people, but do they??

Steve Taylor ● 3940d