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"Ideally, we'd like to increase  Council Tax by 9.6%" says HBC!!

So said Cllr Colin Ellar, Leader of the Council, when he made a presentation last night in Brentford.He was giving the London Borough of Hounslow's Budget Presentation for 2005-2006 to the Isleworth and Brentford Area Committee. "But as the Government would not be too happy with anything over 5% (we'd be capped otherwise)we have got to look at making cuts and efficiency measures"It was the first time..I believe ..that the Brenford and Isleworth Councillors had been given the news..and in written form...and it seems that Councillors and others all over the Borough have little time to make their observations and "cuts" recommendations...before the full Borough Council meeting on 8th March...when the Council Tax rate is fixed!!"We try to avoid cuts in front line services or where people might lose their jobs"  "Savings of £3,000,000 to £4,000,000 are needed"Cllr Ellar spoke very clearly and competantly..and delivered his Report with the aid of visual slides. However, IMHO he would sound quite impressive whether he believed in what he was saying ..or not!!" How can we make recommendations when we don't know what each Department is spending?" said one Councillor in  reply.  "You say that 2000 residents are consulted about this budget by phone...still to be done..and yet I have never been asked" said a co-opted Committee member..a resident for 20 years. (These consultations with residents are conducted by an outside body..like MORI?..but who knows what really happens!!)"Well, indicated Cllr Ellar,  I'm touring round all the Area Committees by 24th February to get their views...then I need to see the results of the consultation with 2000 residents..and thendiscuss the matter with others before the Tax decision is made on 8th March"Cllr Edwards was absent sadly  and thus unable to participate in the seeming showdown. "How can residents or Councillors make observations without much more expenditure information...so that they can trawl through the figures" said a Conservative Councillor. ("There's a good mixed bag of all Parties on this Committee...and its probably the best of the five in the Borough" one of the audience said to me. They get on well..and seem to work in harmony for the common good)Of Council expenditure, 30% comes from Council tax (comment: how many in the Borough never pay?).70% comes from a Government Grant..and each London Borough Council is  hopeful that their next year's increase will be HIGH. Hounslow will be getting an extra 4.9% ..about £9,360.000 extra...and is sad that it is not higher compared with some other London boroughs.The appropriate Government Minister, Nick Rainsford..won't budge..saying that Hounslow's population has decreased!!!! in the year according to the Office of National Statistics (I'm sure I've seen 50,000 new faces as I tour around the Borough!!)  and that other Boroughs have a differing "age" composition and more serious civic problems. (So thats where the dosh goes..to those troublespots!!)The 52.2% of the Council's money goes to Education (there are 30,000 children to look after)..and non of this allocated sum can be used for anything else.  Then 22.2% goes on Social services  ..leaving some 25% that WE are free to spend as we can afford!! Libraries etc.So: if the Office of National Statistics can be proved wrong..and they admit that Hounslow population is more than some 213,000..well then Hounslow could receive a bigger Govt grant.  But if Hounslow cannot prove how many live in the Borough....the figure could be 250,000!!..we will continue to get a lower grant..yet still pay out for all these invisible people.I must go to 

Jim Lawes ● 7386d26 Comments

Duncan Uncomfortable feelings indeed and for my part, if only the local authority were more open and we were made aware of the facts behind these council tax machinations these feelings could be easily allayed. .To the question, as residents are we in a position to judge whether we are getting best value for our council tax money? The answer has to be a resounding, yes. As you have rightly pointed out, be it that we are residents or business people we are all customers of the local authority and we all make up the community the local authority is there to serve. The very same community to which the London Borough of Hounslow should be providing services and to which it should be investing in for today and all our tomorrows. This isn’t some form of populist theory put forward by a handful of individuals, the government announced long ago that it wanted to see more information made available to us about central and local government services, making publications and documents available to us all. Yet when it comes to the issue of council tax, the local authority seemed hell bent on shrouding the facts and figures not only from us but also from those who we have elected to represent us at a local level, councillors. If a local authority such as the London Borough of Hounslow is judged to be doing well by the Audit Commission the local authority should be proud to tell us. It should also be prepared to make available to us performance data. The Audit Commission carries out a series of service reviews over the year on many areas of local government, all the local authority has to do is to take the findings of the Audit Commission and collate them into a document or series of documents to which we the community can refer and decide for ourselves if we are getting value for money.  For any local authority to act in a manner under which a feeling exists of the council concealing such important information not only from elected councillors but also from the customers of the local authority is despicable and shows contempt for us all. None of us should feel confident in asking our councillors for clarification on any issue of council tax given that it has already been made clear that many councillors appear as in the dark about the issue as the rest of us. If I were a councillor, thankfully I’m not, I would refuse to set a level of council tax until such time as the full budgetary facts and figures were at my disposal and I had time to consider the implications of the recommendations. Could the District Auditor please step forward. I don’t feel that the ballot box is the proper place for council tax levels to be judged, to do so would be to resort to the last refuge of local democracy. Its not as though any councillor would issue a manifesto before being elected which would suggest that he/she would not raise council tax levels beyond a certain limit. Besides, so much of the council tax issue is bound up with directives and diktats from central government as to make any such manifesto impossible to implement. What we should rely upon is open and honest local government, fully accountable to the electorate.

Gareth Evans ● 7384d

Well my question certainly triggered uncomfortable feelings similar to mine. I know very little about the workings of local government, but the budgeting process sounds worse than I feared. As residents are we in a position to judge whether we are getting best value for our council tax money? As a resident or business, I see myself not only as a customer of the council, but also an investor, by having chosen to live or operate here. So just as if it was a company, I would like to see how well it is doing and if necessary, contribute feedback to help them align their services to my needs. So just like companies and certain government departments provide in their business planning and operation, I would find it useful to have access to such things as:- Performance figures and ratios (e.g. education cost per pupil; waste cost per household/person etc.) What would make good figures and ratios?- Comparisons with best and other practice in our neighbouring councils- Vision, method or logic of approaches (usually based on political mindset)- Special considerations (e.g. special needs of residents; businesses; Heathrow effect etc.)- Chosen means of providing services (e.g. outsourcing; priorities of services)- etc.Are these available to us?It would be useful for the council taxpayers to have access to this information before major decisions are made about a new budget, so they can, if they wish, provide their feedback to influence decisions.What recourse does the council taxpayer have if she objects or wants clarification on a budget decision? As we live in the borough we can’t take our custom elsewhere, the council have a monopoly. What influence do we have? Is there an auditor or is it just down to the ballot box?

Duncan Walker ● 7384d

Gareth, you have been busy on this thread in the last hour or two. I will try to deal with some of the points you raise, but it would  take more space and time than I currently have available to deal with them all.Firstly, statutory powers on every local authority lie with the permanent senior staff such as the Chief Executive and lead finance and legal officers. Members have access to these officers, but may only find out the details by KNOWING what question to ask. It goes without saying that officers have the upper hand and member knowledge of budgets etc. is dependent upon the time available to gain information and the individual member's ability to comprehend sometimes complex data.In turn, ordinary councillors who do not make direct contact to these officers only have access to the information provided to them by leading members, currently from the Council Executive. As Leader, I remember providing considerable detail on budgets well before the March deadline. Fears about issues being leaked to the media by other parties proved unfounded, and I believe providing non-Labour members with information made it more difficult to criticise the Majority party for acting in secrecy. On at least one occasion I remember a significant change to the budget being made following a proposal from an opposition group.On comparisons between councils, this is more difficult than it seems. Ealing, I understand, has a wheelybin system of refuse collection whereas Hounslow uses black bags. Wheelybins are tidier but are more expensive to operate. Wheelybins also discourage recycling. Hounslow's recycling rate is much higher than Ealing's.With regard to swimming pools, I understand Richmond has 1 pool.Hounslow has pools at Chiswick, Brentford, Isleworth, Heston and Feltham. Which is better? One point I would always stress is that if all local authorities provided exactly the same services in the same manner there would  be no point in local government.The most fundamental task facing local government is how to engage the broader community in debating policy issues. Sadly, debate tends to be constricted around the annual consultation on council tax.

John Connelly ● 7384d

Jim For myself and at this moment in time I don’t think it’s a matter of how much councillors are expected to award in funding for services, its more a matter of getting to the facts which council tax should be based upon, local need. The bare fact of £157,000,000 being spent on education alone doesn’t to me explain the needs of the residents of the borough. Education covers many age groups from the very young right through to the very old and to my mind should cover every aspect of education from nursery school education through to adult education. What we need are figures from the local authority other local authorities on costs by type so that we can compare the cost of each aspect of education (or any other service for that matter) against comparable local authorities. A figure of £100,000 for a class of 20 assumes that the classroom is fully fitted, well maintained and that all the required resources are in place. But what if the local authority has to spend £40,000 of the £100,000 on maintaining the classroom because the classroom is in an unfit state? If our schools and classrooms are in a bad state of repair, councillors should be able to propose that central government be asked to provide additional funding to improve our schools. Within the education budget staff costs might appear to be high but shouldn’t councillors be free to ask if we are paying teaching staff enough, or are there cases of staff leaving the borough in high numbers, forcing the borough to employ agency staff, which in itself puts up costs? Also, children with behavioural difficulties need more intensive support both inside and outside of the classroom. It follows therefore that the number of staff per child will by necessity be higher. A blanket approach across education is not what is needed, Comparisons with other local authroites and examples of best practise are the way forward. Social Services provide services for many within society. Services provided to protect the very young through to the very old, from adoption through to caring for our elderly. The one thing that they all have in common is vulnerability, potential or otherwise. The mark of a civilised society is the way in which that society cares for those in need. Without information on local needs and costs, I wouldn’t want to be a councillor who had to vote to cut funding to social services, especially after well documented cases where cuts in funding have had a significant factor upon resources and management in situations where abuse has resulted. Its not easy getting a social worker assigned to a case because the needs of society will always outstrip the resources that society are prepared to fund for social care.  The Police have reformed and will continue to reform and as for the Fire Fighters, they deserve every single penny they earn and more. There may be a perception out there among many to the effect of "we don't want to change our working practices". I'd say, that there are not many of us who would risk their lives, day in and day out to save the lives of others.

Gareth Evans ● 7384d