Forum Topic

Corbyn against third runway

Jeremy Corbyn appears to be opposing the Heathrow 3rd Runway, which seems a possible good reason for local opponents to register as a Labour 'supporter' to vote for him.

Ian Speed ● 3838d16 Comments

Well said David. I would take it as axiomatic that Labour politicians should campaign against Tory Government policies they disapprove of, in much the same way as the likes of Joanna Russell campaigned against Brent Lea Rec being built on, but from a stronger elected position.

Ian Speed ● 3816d

Supine: not active, passive (OED)Theo, I used "supine" in the above standard sense. I do believe that to say "...I'm not interested in politicians who ... 'campaign' for stuff they can't deliver. Government will decide what happens on Heathrow ..." implies that Heathrow campaigning can't succeed against government and results in a supine stance on that issue. My reason is simple. Governments can be, and have been stopped from implementing decisions by campaigns from below. To suggest that this can't be done suggests to me a rather passive view of how we should respond to government.The London Mayor is in a particularly strong postion to head a campaign against a third runway. So I find Tessa Jowell's stance in Heathrow suppine/passive at best.I didn't understand your first paragraph nor to whom it was directed.You in turn didn't get the connection I made between the suppine/passive stance of Tessa Jowell (as a long-term leading Labour politician) on a major policy issue for London and the surge in support for a different type of politics as represented by Jeremy Corbyn. The connection seems clear to me but others will have to decide for themselves.To be clear, I did NOT accuse you of being generally supine. I know that is not the case. What I said was that on the single issue of Tessa Jowell and Heathrow to suggest that campaigning could not change government policy, as I think you did, was to advocate a supine/passive political approach ON THAT ISSUE. I still think that.

David Pavett ● 3818d

supine/adjective:(of a person) lying face upwards.failing to act or protest as a result of moral weakness or indolence.Maybe I was too polite, David.  I don't care whether a politician pretends to be left or right, I cannot abide those that say one thing and do another, duck questions and evade responsibility, talk blather at the public's expense. They may grandstand from opposition or be the navel lint of those in power, they are equally worthless to me.  It is easy agreeing with people and parroting what is popular to get elected and there are hundreds of politicans who do it and have trashed the trust and confidence of regular folk as a result.  There is plenty to protest about and I encourage it - but let's not kid ourselves, in the end you have to pony up and do something more.Whoever is selected as Labour's Mayoral candidate, whether they win or lose, Government will decide Heathrow's fate.  Locally Labour reiterated its position in favour of better not bigger in its 2014 manifesto and I stand squarely behind that.  I haven't changed my view since the day I came to west London. So put your trust in protest or the government's 'No ifs, no buts' if you wish, I don't, I'd like to see something beyond striking a pose and while Tessa may not be on the side of the angels on Heathrow I trust her to do more on congestion, pollution and noise than the current incumbent who has opposed Heathrow as much as you could wish.Ian questioned my position on Heathrow on the basis of association - a cheap dig but that's politics for you. Apparently you think me supine for appreciating the modest achievements of Tessa and that by some peculiar extension I embody what has provoked the surge in support for Jeremy Corbyn...  Heck, methinks you doth protest too much.

Theo Dennison ● 3818d

Theo, I think it is the somewhat supine approach to government that you seem to express that is the basis for the stunning surge of support for Jeremy Corbyn. It IS possible to oppose governments and there are many examples, as you know, of this being done successfully. So, this is in now way a matter of striking "heroic poses". Tessa Jowell may be a lovely person but her attitude over Heathrow shows that she is just another machine politician prepared to talk about "bringing power back to the community" but also prepared to ignore communities when push comes to shove. And then there is the matter of her political record (over friendly to media interests (Communications Act 2003), her liberalisation of gaming laws (Gambling Act 2005). Then there was her stunningly awful contribution to The Purple Book published by the right-wing Labour group Progess. Now she is demonstrating the same type of political judgement with her friendliness to the business lobby over Heathrow. My view is that she is the sort of politician that we are better off without. My first preference is not Sadiq Khan but I guess that in the eliminative ballot my vote will fall to him and I certainly would prefer him to Tessa Jowell.

David Pavett ● 3819d

Yes, but I'm not interested in politicians who strike heroic poses or 'campaign' for stuff they can't deliver. Government will decide what happens on Heathrow and I want the next London Mayor to take big practical steps to improve air quality and reduce congestion and pollution - I think you'll find Tessa will be up for that.

Theo Dennison ● 3819d

OK Theo, I accept that you've had a fruitful working relationship with Tessa in the past. Will you publicly commit to trying to change her opinion on Heathrow?

Ian Speed ● 3820d

I had the pleasure of working with Tessa in Lambeth when she put her shoulder behind turning round a council that had been brought down about as low as it could go.  Tessa was tireless and her contribution invaluable so, while there are certainly other good candidates for Mayor available, as far as I am concerned Tessa earned my support long ago and will always have it.

Theo Dennison ● 3820d

"They are good for doing what Labour politicians have forgotten - working to convince the electorate that there is a better way of running society which does not necessitate out-Torying the Tories by running the economy on behalf of the corporate rich, depressing wages & working conditions and treating the indigenous working class like dirt."Well put Mick!   At this stage (a couple of months into an unfettered Tory government) it's hard to say just how un-electable Corbin would be at the next election, it depends how far to the Right the Tories move, they will but by how much is anybodies guess?  If you apply the old law of physics i.e."for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction", then it may be that Corbin seems a little bit too tame and too close to centre to get elected.

Tony Wood ● 3822d

"You only have to see some of the newspapers and things like 'Question Time', and dare I say it - Chiswick W4, to see that people have become extremely selfish and only care about themselves. The attitude being displayed towards the poor sods stuck in Calais being a case in point, we are fast heading towards a country where, if you can't pay for it you can't have it, and that will apply to health care and education and God alone knows what else if this lot get their way."The choice facing our wannabe political leaders then is either to change them or to join them.  The consensus amongst the three establishment contenders for the Labour leadership would appear to be that it is better to join them as that will increase their chances of being elected.Like you say Vanessa, elected for what purpose?  Most of these people seem to see being elected as the end in itself, rather than as a means to an end.

Phil Andrews ● 3822d

You wouldn't get any argument from me - but I fear a lot of people are not on receive.You only have to see some of the newspapers and things like 'Question Time', and dare I say it - Chiswick W4, to see that people have become extremely selfish and only care about themselves. The attitude being displayed towards the poor sods stuck in Calais being a case in point, we are fast heading towards a country where, if you can't pay for it you can't have it, and that will apply to health care and education and God alone knows what else if this lot get their way.

Vanessa Smith ● 3822d

They are good for doing what Labour politicians have forgotten - working to convince the electorate that there is a better way of running society which does not necessitate out-Torying the Tories by running the economy on behalf of the corporate rich, depressing wages & working conditions and treating the indigenous working class like dirt.

Mick Brent ● 3822d

"Appeasing the media in order to achieve and maintain power doesn't seem much like a principle to me."And principles without power are useful for what?

Vanessa Smith ● 3822d

I'll say this for Corbyn, he doesn't give a monkey's cuss what the vast majority of the media and anyone who opens his/her gob says about him and his policies. He would be more of a disaster for Labour and for Britain than any of the other prospective leaders, who will all have a few years of howling in the wilderness yet imo.

Keith Iddon ● 3822d

On the other hand Vanessa, apart from the financial and political aggrandisement of party apparatchiks, what is the point of electing those who have no principles whatever. Appeasing the media in order to achieve and maintain power doesn't seem much like a principle to me.

Mick Brent ● 3822d

Bit late if you wanted to register, I agree with a lot of Mr. Corbyn's sentiments but I fear he could not lead the Labour party nor get it elected. It wouldn't do any of the other contenders any harm to listen to what he says though.

Vanessa Smith ● 3823d

Theo Dennison seen singing pro-runway Mayoral candidate Tessa Jowell's praises on Twitter! Stick to 'better not bigger' Theo!

Ian Speed ● 3823d