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It can though.  Capitalism is flawed only by the excesses that get allowed, and the difference between a local authority and a property developer is simply one of time.  A property developer wants a return on investment, so with the current very low commercial interest rates he borrows a large sum cheaply, invests it into building lots of flats and then makes a quick return when he sells.  The short termism is unfortunately fed by anyone with money in the bank.  They see a very small return on bank interest so use the money instead to buy property which they rent out. This drives prices up, which makes the developer and the purchaser very happy. It's the classic bubble.  The time issue comes in when you realise that low interest rates, ‘historically low’, have been with us for only 6 years.  The building bubble and house price escalation followed as quickly as interest rates fell, and likewise will go the other way when interest rates increase.  Property developers are living by a business model that is based solely on a temporary situation.  Some developers, Ballymore for example, don’t realise their business model is so flawed and instead of building quick and selling quick are sitting on land in the hope that as Brentford becomes taller they’ll be able to likewise build taller.  They don’t give a hoot about Brentford, it’s just a game of return on capital for them. This short-termism is the reason so many property development companies regularly go bankrupt.  They're so blinkered by quick profits that they can't see the wood for all the trees.The council though represents the people that live in the middle of this game.  They should be taking the longer perspective – is it right, does it fit with the character and heritage, etc. They should also keep an eye on what their reputations will be like in the years to come, ‘oh councillor so-and-so, he’s the idiot that allowed a 24 storey residential block to be built on the old Morrisons site.’  In a few years many of today's hot properties will be completely unsellable. It happened before, many times, and it will happen again, many times.My advice is to sit and wait, always play the long game and always resist the short-termism that is tempting but utterly flawed.

Lorne Gifford ● 3598d

I've not had a McDonalds burger in decades. Not a fan of them at all, but I have used the local one, the coffee and breakfasts are good as is the ice cream.But one thing I will say is the site is kept impeccably clean, inside and out.When one sees the slovenly way many treat the place both inside and outside it is amazing how hard the staff work to keep it clean and tidy.The car park is regularly steam cleaned and the vegetation kept properly maintained. That's more than can be said for most others locally.I do like Lidl, Aldi less so. But neither are true supermarkets with the gamut that Morrisons, Tesco Sainsbury's or Waitrose has.Lidl is more like Iceland. But fresh meat fish and wide choice is not something they do.I do not want to drive to the supermarket. We can walk most times and just use the car for large items or the bigger bi-weekly shop. But it is a short journey. Going to Tescos or elsewhere, our preference is the Richmond/Sheen Sainsburys takes ages and is a car only run.It makes no sense at all to lose a hub supermarket for smaller retail units, most of which will never be viable here.I really hope that Guy's colleagues and even the opposition will endeavour to seek every nook and cranny to prevent such a daft change.And I hate to say it but Planning is now so remote from the real world that it is no surprise that most of it is completely incomprehensible and thus impossible for residents and councillors alike to be able to make any sort of clear decisions..

Raymond Havelock ● 3607d

I think that's where we are odds with each other, because at the end of the day regardless of what the average person in the street thinks, ultimately any proposals will be decided on the basis of planning legislation.I concur with much of what you say, but the Conservation Area extension is a nonsense.  It's one thing to designate a new Conservation Area which includes some unsuitable buildings (although generally that will be avoided where possible, unless for example an unsuitable building is landlocked on all sites by buildings of merit), it's another to extend a Conservation Area by only including two sites (Morrisons and the county court) neither of which possesses any architectural or historical merit.It would quite simply be a complete misapplication of the  legislation and the High Court would throw it out and inevitably the Council would face a huge legal bill.It's interesting that you cite the Chiswick extension, which was a knee-jerk reaction to a prior approval application to demolish the Packhorse & Talbot pub, and which a High Court judge took a very dim view of.  The only saving grace for LBH in that case was that they had done some background work previously about extending the Conservation Area (but not progressed further due to resource issues), but in the case of St. Paul's there is no way any professional (or indeed Joe Bloggs) could put forward a credible argument as to why either Morrisons or the county court is, based on its architectural merit and/or historical signficance, worthy of any protection.

Adam Beamish ● 3608d

Interesting points of view here.I always appreciate Adam's input from his pro perspective, but just because that's the rules or the protocol and so on does not really bear any relation to the person in the street. The person who wants a loaf of bread and a tin of soup in this case.Whoever makes these designations or sets the criteria does not mean they have got it right simply because it is what the guidelines say.Barnes may well be lovely but it is hugely affluent and very twee.Brentford was not ,is not  and will probably never be Barnes, or Hampstead or Chalfont St Giles.What it is in danger of is being made soulless, devoid of infrastucture and now...shopless.The demographics are quite different and quite ironically, Morrisons is probably the only place where those demographics truly converge.You see it all in there from Shell suits to posh blokes wearing lurid coloured corduroys.Like it or loathe it, Morrisons is the retail hub of Brentford.It's car park does not just benefit Morrisons, it keeps the other nearby retailers alive as well. The sheer arrogance to presume that the car park uses up space may well be fine for statistics and policy but the true reality is that without it the whole local commerce risks collapse.Brentford people alone cannot sustain a vibrant high street or indeed a half decent supermarket be it Morrisons or Waitrose.A huge amount of Morrisons customers come from South Ealing and Northfields, both bereft of a supermarket . The smaller ones are also much more expensive and both areas have very little parking.I spent a little time in the reference library. It seems in the 1960s the height of the court was restricted to match the height of the nearest residential dwellings . Then International Stores were restricted in their planning application to not exceed the height of the adjoining building and obliterate the Beehive Public House.  It seems this was a reaction to the damage done to Brentfords environs by the Police Station apartment block.As for the conservation area, this is not to be confused by listing buildings.A great many conservation areas contain some ghastly structures. What a C A can prevent is more ghastly or unsuitable structures.There are many precedents.One example is nearby Ealing Green, a long established Conservation area.It contained and contains several post war buildings. Ealing Technical College, now part of West London University,  Ealing Sorting Office,  The Now demolished Flextrol Factory, Ealing Telephone exchange, The Film Studios rear, access not just the front lodge.And, if I am right, Has not part of Chiswick High Road been incorporated into a larger conservation area?  And does that not include some structures equally comparable to the courthouse and store?What a CA can prevent is a repeat of the ghastly architecture that developers are all to keen to stick up.

Raymond Havelock ● 3608d

Gents,Regarding the suggestion of extending the Conservation Area (to extend the county court site), aside from the difficulties in extending a Conservation Area purely to prevent development, are we really suggesting that the court building (or the Morrisons site) has some architectural or historical merit which makes it worthy of statutory protection ?.If we are, then I won't have a pint of whatever you're drinking, because it's clearly damaging to one's health...Joking aside, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever to extend the boundaries of the Conservation Area to include the court site, and I'm sure we're all in agreement with that.As for the 'change of designation' to the Morrisons site, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was never solely designated for retail use only.  It's also wrong to say that some of the issues with the local plan fell on deaf issues, one only has to read the Inspector's report to note the points the Inspector raised about the shortcomings of some elements of the plan, but nevertheless that Inspector declared the plan 'sound', which essentially meant Members were entirely right to adopt it.But, going back to the Morrisons site, I'm sure it's designation always identified it as having mixed use potential, it's a town centre site and to be honest if any Council, either as part of a local plan examination or at a planning appeal, tried to convince an Inspector it should only be used for retail purposes, an Inspector would give the Council very short shrift.If you really want a retail use on the site I can have a word with my fast food client and see if they want to put a drive-thru/take-away/restaurant on the site ?! - thought not !.But I do agree with the general sentiment, but as I often say when it comes to planning merits residents don't do their credibility any good at all if they lose all sense of reality, such as extending the Conservation Area to include the county court/Morrisons.

Adam Beamish ● 3610d

The fact is Guy, Councillors do have a part to play.The Borough plan designation should not have been unanimously voted through and all six local councillors should have opposed the change to designation of the Morrisons site.You may be new to this but 4 out of 5 other councillors are most certainly not.What have they been doing all this time? Did any one bother to read it?It was so ham fistedly produced that the gobbledegook missives on the plan must have numbed all but those with legal training. That in itself should have been challenged.This was spotted and raised but fell on completely deaf ears. That is not responsible community stewardship by councillors or indeed the officers who created these assessments.That designation alone hyped up the value of the site.What good is more homes without any facilities?It will mean that a large part of Brentford will have to drive to do a weekly shop, It will mean bus journeys for those who shop every few days.Morrisons may not be the best supermarket in the world, but it carries all one needs and is affordable.It is a lifeline to this town and is as important as a school or medical centreand used by all types of people, from all walks of life.If that goes it will be a legacy of the utter recklessness caused by covert and unchallenged meddling by this authority towards this town.There is plenty councillors and council can do.  1. Amend the town plan  ( and we as residents and taxpayers ought to know just who thought changing the the designation was a good idea, along with failing to designate other sites for schools?)2. Extend the St Paul's Conservation area so it is bounded by the Beehive and includes the Court site, which, no doubt will be next.3. Reinforce the conservation area status which has been recently downgraded with no consultation to residents within it whatsoever.4. Needs to be designated a site of public interest.Why is it that this was quite easily done 18 years ago, by past councillors and officers, but not even discussable now?

Raymond Havelock ● 3610d

Yes, we're working for the good of the community.As has been pointed out, Morrisons is in Syon ward so my business is technically as a resident rather than as a councillor, though for obvious reasons Brentford councillors are very interested in the town centre.As I understand it, the freehold of the site has been sold by Morrisons' landlords. Their continued operation on the site depends on their lease. I have no information about this, nor about whether Morrisons are eager to remain in Brentford or otherwise, nor whether other supermarket chains would be interested in the site.Contrary, it seems, to people's opinions, councillors cannot stop people selling their property to whomever they choose and in any case, as is not unusual, the first I heard of any potential threat to Morrisons was via rumour from locals about a week ago.In a case like this the only power we might have is if at some point somebody seeks planning permission to develop the site. This has not happened at this stage. Councillors have a briefing from officers (not specifically about this but we'll obviously ask!) on Monday.The LBH Local Plan was approved (unanimously) by Borough Council on Tuesday and the Morrisons site has a specific entry on page 158 of the attached:http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/documents/s119024/Appendix%201%20Hounslow%20Local%20Plan%20Version%20for%20Adoption%20September%202015.pdf].It is 'zoned' as mixed use with 75% retail, 25% residential. As I understand it (and I am far from an expert on planning, give me time...) the Local Plan has to be approved by the Mayor of London but assuming it is this will give councillors the authority to resist any change to the site being predominantly for retail use.For the avoidance of doubt, I can say that I would personally be very strongly opposed to the loss of Morrisons , or an equivalent supermarket on the same site. I can't speak for anyone else but I'd be very surprised if local colleagues disagreed.

Guy Lambert ● 3611d