Forum Topic

Daft as brushes?

As if the imminent and misguided closure of Church St. was not enough we now have Hounslow Highways doing some work in St. Johns Road starting today until March 2016! Twickenham Rd. was totally gridlocked this afternoon, what muppets could do something so stupid? Surely the council must have known about this? If so why on earth did they insist on going ahead with the Church St. closure at the same time. You really couldn't make this up!!

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d21 Comments

COMMUNITY ACTION OPPOSITION MEETING - 7.30pm on 11 December 2015 This meeting will be held at St John’s Church Hall, St John’s Road, Isleworth and is open to all who are opposed to the closure. LEGAL OBJECTION PERIOD (7 DECEMBER 2015 – 6 JUNE 2016) – COMPLAIN FROM 7 DECEMBER, COMPLAIN EACH TIME YOU ARE AFFECTED Please find below a model email for you to adapt, if you wish, to reflect the impact of the closure upon you.  It would really assist the campaign if we have a record of the number of complaints that Hounslow Council has received.  Please copy email complaints to dontclosechurchstreet@hotmail.com. PROTEST PROCESSION – Saturday 12 December 2015, 2pm Twickenham Road We shall meet from 1.30pm at the old exchange on the Twickenham Road opposite the junction of Park Road.  Set-off will be at 2pm. The route will be along the north side pavement of the Twickenham Road, crossing at St Bridget’s Church and then onto South Street where the procession will stop.  The Police have authorised the march and we shall have marshals present to assist. Everyone is welcome, young and old. All we ask is that people walk peacefully and in an orderly fashion, having consideration for residents and road users. As ever, thank you for your continued support.

Vanessa Smith ● 3531d

The road closed today but even though I live at Syon I haven't received official notification. I did ask when I might expect to but still haven't received a response. I don't know why that surprises me given the atrocious communication record of our councillors but really it does beggar belief .....

Sarah Connolly ● 3531d

Well said, and concisely put.

Vanessa Smith ● 3534d

I do appreciate that it might seem that everyone is having a go at the Council, but do just consider why.The premise for this closure is entirely flawed.  Anyone who walks and cycles along Church Street knows it is a pleasure compared to the neighbouring streets.  The consultation was inadequate, with many local residents excluded, especially those who stood to lose from increased congestion and pollution.  LBH also failed to consult the local businesses who provide employment i Isleworth, and even now, despite all assurances to the contrary, have failed to formally notify many people who face an extra 20-30 minutes on their journey to work, because this is their local road, too.  LBH accepts that there is no particular problem with either speeding or safety, yet by introducing this trial, they will divert all vehicles to a road which is already both congested and polluted.Attempts to speak to councillors, with the exception of Mr Dennison, have been met with memorable phrases such as "I don't agree with the closure but I have to be careful where I say that" and "No I'm not your councillor, the LBH website is wrong", or even "I only answer emails with my name in the address line".  Most memorable was the councillor who said "I'm not the best person to ask, I only heard about this a couple of days before the vote".To cap it all, local residents have asked repeatedly for baseline measures of pollution against which the success or otherwise of this trail can be measured.  LBH, either in the form of councillors or officers, have never produced any of this data.  It has been left to residents to find this data, which shows - perhaps predictably - that the pollution on Twickenham Road is way above EU limits, while there is no significant problem on Church Street.That is why people are angry.

Topher Martyn ● 3535d

Seems to me you can dance around an issue or you can call a spade a spade, whatever you think of my prose at least it must be blindingly obvious what I am talking about. As for Church St. - sorry this simply does not add up, the figures given on the official letter we had through our letterboxes are ridiculous. Maths has never been my strong point but even I was able to work out that this closure is going ahead based on 144 people wanting it! 144 out of all of us who live here - do me a favour. The problem has been that every traffic issue has been treated on its own, the mini roundabout at South St. with its knock on effects, the fact the closure by Richmond of Cole Park and the tremendous effects of that on people further down the Twickenham Rd. and the Worple Estate not even considered, not to mention the A316 London Rd. roundabout that desperately needs lights. All of this should have been looked at in its entirety, and that's without the stunning decision to have four months of roadworks in St. Johns Road going on at the same time. And may I say patronising people hardly helps either, if there are any barricades they are those created by people who are supposed to be representing us and frankly if I feel like jumping on them then I damned well will!

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

TheoTo cite one example from many, how would you explain the fact that a councillor who "knew nothing" of the decision to hand the Pit Park over to a resident (and former neighbour) for her private use later transpired to have her signature on the document specifically authorising the transfer?It's little things like this that lead residents not to trust or respect their elected members.  And when such actions on the part of one are tolerated, or in this case rewarded, by colleagues then rightly or wrongly an impression is created of deep institutional rottenness.You can blame the residents as much as you like, but generally speaking the relationship that exists between them and their elected members is of the latter's making.

Phil Andrews ● 3538d

I think it's blindingly obvious why people are p*ssed off but the less than tactful language carries over from one row to the next.  I have never seen such an abusive relationship and it does our community no good for anyone to excuse it.  Taking as a for instance the decision on a trial closure of Church Street, it may have been the wrong decision but that doesn't excuse all the accusations that have been thrown around about the councillors and officers involved or the Church Street residents themselves - they have certainly not deserved it.  It's a trial, arrived at once again after a 12 year break since the last but one set of councillors agreed a closure; after several attempts to improve Twickenham Road traffic flow and reduce Church Street through traffic; after a consultation which despite its inevitable faults captured many if not most of the views now being repeated as if that were themselves evidence that the Council is incapable of listening.  Perhaps if residents had not for some reason become convinced that Hounslow Council habitually imposes daft ideas on residents as a matter of deliberate policy maybe they would have heard the promise that its impacts would be monitored from the start and no one should assume it will run its full 18 months or that it is just a ploy to bring in permanent closure.I would just appeal for a lot more listening on all sides and a little less jumping on the barricades.

Theo Dennison ● 3538d

Theo, perhaps you should be asking why some of us feel so p*ssed off we are moved to use less than tactful language? 'Engaging' does not come easily, or at all, in some cases, from your colleagues. They box themselves into  corners then when they can't wriggle out simply disengage and don't communicate at all! That only adds to the frustration felt, neither does it help that they make ill-thought out and plain daft statements during public meetings, given the distinct impression they aren't even paying attention to what is going on. You also neglect to accept that in some cases we have been blatantly lied to, instead of putting your hands up and admitting that and enabling things to move on there is more faffing to cover their backsides. A lot of us have been around a long time, rarely if ever can I remember a council coming under such fierce and almost constant criticism. I think we all accept that your job is not an easy one, especially in the current climate, but I for one can't help thinking you could help yourselves a lot more by working with local people and listening, the perception around here is one of - 'we know what's best for you lot so shut up, we'll do what we want, so there'. Why do you think you had the Wheelie bin incident? Sheer bloody frustration.

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

PEDESTRIAN PROTEST PROCESSION CONFIRMED– Saturday 12 December 2015, 2pm on Twickenham RoadMeet from 1.30pm at the old telephone exchange on the Twickenham Road opposite the junction of Park Road. We will set-off at 2pm to show our opposition as a community to this closure.The route will be along the north-side pavement of the Twickenham Road, crossing at St Bridget’s Church and then onto South Street where the procession will end. We have Police authorisation and shall have marshals present to assist.Everyone is welcome, young and old. All we ask is that people walk peacefully and in an orderly fashion, having consideration for residents and road users.

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

Hi, I fully accept things seldom go to plan but it helps if we recognize that whatever mistakes are sometimes and almost inevitably made, the Council isn't staffed by headless chickens and even councillors aren't always wrong.  As you know there are lots of decisions to make, some simple others not, but if we gave up on people just because they got something wrong or disagree with us on something then it makes for a bleaker future - and I agree with you that anything that distances councillors and the Council from residents is unhelpful.As for the forum, yes, getting more councillors on it would help but that is their choice, no one can mandate it.  I think there would be more people here generally and it would be more effective if the language was a mite less colourful - at times it could almost be a riotous assembly.

Theo Dennison ● 3538d

TheoThank you, that is helpful in that it gives forum users a clearer picture of the thinking behind the implementation of these current works - even if some of us will remain dubious, based on previous experience, about whether the practice will prove as smooth and flawless as the theory.  Please remember we have seen traffic chaos on and around the Twickenham Road on Sundays and long into the evenings, such is the extent to which its capacity has been reached.In the light of your intervention on this thread would it be unreasonable for us to hope that in your role as engagement guru your crowning achievement might yet be to persuade certain of your colleagues to deign to interact with us lower orders similarly?

Phil Andrews ● 3538d

Hi, I appreciate TW8 provides a useful outlet for frustrations with the Council and there are certainly serious traffic issues locally that need to be addressed but I can't be alone in thinking a tad more civility would be welcome - if councillors used the language several posters habitually use they would be up before the Standards Committee and rightly so.  And how anyone believes that being rude makes them more persuasive eludes me.So let's take a moment away from name calling to look at the facts:St John's RoadThe works on St John’s Road have been programmed to minimize their impact on two-way traffic flow. The only traffic control between now and the new year will be the occasional use of stop & go to facilitate deliveries, which will be timed to occur outside of the peak periods and will be suspended should there be any significant build-up of traffic.In the new year there will be some closures of the side roads to facilitate the building of the side-road entry treatments, again I don’t see that these will have significant impact on traffic flows.Temporary lights will be required for the works at Grainger Road and island works later in January and in February, but this will be kept under review in consideration of the potential impact of the Church Street trial closure.Park RoadResurfacing is planned sometime between June and August 2016,  It will be limited to at most two days work and access will be maintained at all times, albeit constrained.  These works are also subject to review depending on any impacts arising from the trial closure.I know the facts are dull, but there they are - perhaps we might now accept that the Council's traffic team know what they are doing even if you'll not accept that any of the councillors do

Theo Dennison ● 3538d

Anyone with half an operational brain cell, would have looked at this and discussed deferring the Church St. closure until March at the IBAF meeting, instead of steam-rolling it through. This would have given councillors time to consider all the objections and issues raised - instead they deliberately decided to visit complete chaos on Isleworth without any consideration, when will they understand you simply cannot carry out this type of work in isolation without it affecting a far wider area and therefore a lot more people?

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

Presumably it will have the effect of deterring people caught up in the chaos on Twickenham Road from taking a detour to the London Road to add to the chaos there.  This will force "the Council" (not us) to do something about the traffic problems on the Twickenham Road/London Road/A4 (delete according to preference).  Aren't we lucky to be represented by such gifted strategic thinkers in these parts?

Phil Andrews ● 3538d

Apparently Hounslow Highways are going to carry out footway and junction 'improvements' in St. Johns Rd. Won't that be fun?

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

The developer of "The Old Vicarage" was funnily enough one of the strongest opponants againts the Swan Court development and of course now it makes perfect sense why

Paul Fisher ● 3538d

In the 'Sunday Times' property supplement the former council property in Church St. that was used as a sort of 'half way house' for some years has now been fully re-furbished. It is on sale, now retitled as 'The Old Vicarage' for a cool £4.75M, and the sales blurb makes much of 'tranquillity' and the fact the road is to be closed to traffic. Why can't local councillors think first before taking decisions that clash with other nearby road-works which must have been programmed sometime ago? It beggars belief that they are inflicting this chaos on Isleworth, yes, indeed "Beam me up Scotty!"

Vanessa Smith ● 3538d

I believe that, from comments made at one of the local meetings, the closing of Church Street was being pushed through, not just to protect a few house prices, but to force action to alleviate the issues on Twickenham Road by dangerously overloading it.The fact that the resurfacing work on St Johns Road has been timed to coincide with the closure of Church Street probably has the same aim.Apparently we are all going to make alternative travel arrangements to get around the issues they are creating for us to live with.Teleportation device anyone?

Brian McMillan ● 3538d

In all seriousness this is probably down to a lack of co-ordination between the two projects.  This is precisely the kind of thing that councillors need to be on top of, providing local intelligence to officers who should then act upon it.

Phil Andrews ● 3538d

I would imagine that not only will this madness inconvenience and infuriate people who use the route regularly and who might also live in that area but what about the inevitable loss of revenue to local shopkeepers and businesses. If you make it hard for people to get to local shops they will go elsewhere.

Keith Iddon ● 3538d

It is a statistical inevitability that one day they will close every route at the same time.

Phil Andrews ● 3538d