Forum Topic

Front gardens will have to be changed to accommodate bins

Meanwhile in Ealing ....Conservative Councillors in Northfields are warning residents that they may have to alter their properties to accommodate wheelie bins which are to be introduced borough wide next year.In their local leaflet 'intouch' they say council officers told them that it was the responsibility of residents to ensure they can store the bins - even if that means knocking down walls or removing shrubs and trees. The information came after Councillors Millican, Mullins and Conti went on a walkabout with the officers and visited various roads including Belsize Ave, near Northfields Station. There they saw houses that would not be able to accommodate the wheelie bins without adapting their front gardens, unless the wheelie bins were left directly in front of the front doors.Officers also apparently confirmed that legal action could be taken if the bins were left on the pavement.The news will cause anger - this year 7,000 people signed a petition against the changes.In Brentford the recent introduction of the new collection service has led to protests outside the Council Leader's house.Ealing Council plan to introduce the alternate collections and wheelie bins in late Spring and are currently assessing properties which are not suitable for a wheelie bin and say they will provide the same service offered to homes on red routes.They say if any waste (contained or otherwise) is left unauthorised on the pavement, action can be taken. However they claim that they want to ' work closely with residents before, during and after service roll out to prevent any need for this'. Residents can store wheelie bins in their front gardens if they wish to.An Ealing Council spokesperson added:''Wheelie bin collections have been successfully introduced in many parts of London, making it easier to recycle. We have carried out a survey of all homes in the borough and the majority of homes will be able to store wheelie bins. We will be writing to people early next year to let them know what their collection service will be and help will be at hand for people who need further advice.''

Reg Ghosh ● 3716d31 Comments

It's gross the way we have let ourselves be overwhelmed by the amount of waste we make.  So overwhelmed that Councils seem now to have the power to intimidate many.In places with very little space many people have these sort of bags which can be put out at the last moment:http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/story/2012-03-14/bird-free-bins/Pavements need to be kept clear for people and buggies and nowadays mobility scooters as well.

Philippa Bond ● 3673d

Blue wheelie bin?  And this is just one wheelie bin.The definition of illegally dumped waste = fly-tip.Is this another case of residents using their own initiative as a result of missing Council initiative and involvement and lack of leadership?

Philippa Bond ● 3676d

But we aren't allowed to leave them on the pavements!

Rima Jones ● 3676d

This house in New Road does not have any front garden for a wheelie bin.

Jennifer Long ● 3676d

This isn't on the front page of CW4.

Rima Jones ● 3704d

Re front page news "Landfill collection to become fortnightly"Best to let LBH know your views. There is no requirement to consult.Wheelies for recycling will be for basics only as are recycling collections in sacks for flats.All contaminants will go to landfill or more likely incineration after being weighed as recycled!It isn't the recycling containers which are taking up space. It's the wheelies.

Rima Jones ● 3704d

Why aren't the properties in the roads with the smaller front gardens offered an alternative eg flats' recycling?

Philippa Bond ● 3707d

Actually I am amazed by a general lack of spatial awareness on the part of the Council in trying to force these monstrosities into the small gardens that some houses have.Residents too could often do with a bit of help and encouragement to reduce the volume of their recycling and residual waste.I found this little video recently which shows the difference in volume of items in a green box squashed and not squashed.  I myself (having tried a couple of solutions) remain a big fan of a sturdy shoe.  Although a crusher on the wall is tempting and worked well in an office.http://www.britishbins.co.uk/CoolCrusher/However according to current LBH recycling:  Lids should be removed from plastic bottles and plastics are collected separately from tins.  The difference in volume though between squashed and unsquashed is impressive.

Philippa Bond ● 3708d

These are small terraced houses with tiny front gardens which have been assessed as being suitable. Previously there were small dustbins, green box, food waste bin, folded plastics and paper bag which didn't need much space but with the wheels and handle sticking out from the bin no space for the recycling stuff and they're considering bigger bins for recycling too?!

Rima Jones ● 3708d

I'd charge them rent for their ridiculous bins. I reckon several of them are just as large as some of the rooms that are rented out!

Philippa Bond ● 3708d

I don't suppose the council think it ethically correct that if gardens and pathways to houses have to be altered to accommodate the equipment that they insist we use,( ie: it's them wot moved the goalposts) that they should therefore pay for those alterations?.

Keith Iddon ● 3708d

The containers just aren't suitable.  I don't suppose they walked around all the bits of the other boroughs where they say they are such a success either.

Philippa Bond ● 3709d

I went for a walk round this morning, the first collection since wheelies arrived. In roads with tiny front gardens there were no recycling containers at all and they'd disappeared from the gardens. Just wheelies there.

Rima Jones ● 3709d

You need to get out on collection days and see for yourselves.Pontificating about what people should and shouldn't do is exactly what the council is doing what the WLWA is doing and is why they are are getting it wrong.Some areas like this bit of Brentford, it's really easy to spot those who do not recycle fully and enthusiastically. They are very, very few.  However this has noticeably changed in the last few weeks. Mainly because there is not enough space to access and accommodate the wheelie bins.We don't recycle so much as it's just not practical without turning everything upside down to get at soaking wet bags and boxes and having to climb over things to reach them.  Busy working people just don't have the time to mess about like this.Drive to other parts of the borough and it's completely different.The sheer amount of waste per house is incredible. Lots of black bags and heaving recycling boxes, per house, after house after house.Hounslow the same and Cranford the same too.It must be down to demographics or overcrowded homes.But it seems that we are being used to rob Peter to save Paul.  See if they can squeeze more out of the efficient and diligent areas, rather than tackle the problem areas where waste is huge.Mann and Curran know this but won't disclose, not even to ordinary councillors, that it's a big fiddle.

Raymond Havelock ● 3709d

http://westlondonwaste.gov.uk/sustainable-solutions-for-waste/We could have had a consultation about making the recycling of some items mandatory.  That also increases the take up of recycling containers by those who haven't done it before or who have lapsed - especially if a Council is proactive enough to make the containers easily available.  The door to door visits increased the recycling rates but those are not as good as they could be unless the people doing it actually know more than the residents.

Philippa Bond ● 3709d

The sad thing is that we don't need to produce so much waste.  We buy more than we need and too much packaging.We have to keep the pressure up so that packaging where necessary continually improves and is easier to dispose of - and doesn't start increasing again. It has decreased since the cauliflower plastic globe which was the last straw for me but why on earth do we think that we can't do anything about it?  We can refuse to take it home with us and leave it at the till. We can buy elsewhere. Time saved at the start saves time at the end.Anybody putting out more than one black sack a week should definitely be looking at why.  It is interesting to see that there was a big increase in the number of recycling receptacles requested before the initial roll out.  Why couldn't this have been instigated earlier?  Whose waste is it anyway?

Philippa Bond ● 3710d

I doubt it Philippa. This was a long time ago and I used Grundon to achieve zero waste including food for 2 Green Days without incineration. It's a family run business based in Colnebrook and not international. They did it all for free and were immensely supportive. I was on good terms with the whole family but they had been trying for 11 years to get pp for an incinerator. I tried to persuade them against it and then Ken, much to my horror and disbelief, wanted me at City Hall for his waste strategy. Ken was deeply concerned about Climate Change and had nightmares about it. He blocked Grundons plans for the incinerator and Grundon then thought it was something to do with me. It wasn't! If Ken was determined that was it! even if I quietly agreed. I was also a member of FOE who were helping me with the whole City Hall nightmare! The WLWA then took it to court and won. I had to visit Grundons MRF as part of the City Hall thing and saw the incinerator being constructed. Horrifying but I didn't comment. Just went home dismayed. It was a huge amount of work for me and a steep learning curve in all respects, having never done anything like it before and then finding myself in an awkward situation with a battle going on. There were conferences with the inspectorate and I had to continue against incineration. At the end of one hard day I learned that the Gov had approved a vast new incinerator at Belvedere for use by Riverside ( Westminster, Hammersmith and Fulham, K and C, Lambeth). Ken was livid and me totally shocked. All my work coming to nothing. If it's any consolation Riversides recycling rate is extremely low!It now appears that WLWA are continuing with another incinerator which Boris was happy to approve, but of course they need the councils to supply the goods. Big deals going on behind closed doors. So it seems. Perhaps I'm just being cynical.

Rima Jones ● 3710d

Do you think the secrecy has anything to do with the court case between the former Mayor of London and the WLWA?

Philippa Bond ● 3710d

Could this be about the WLWA needing a long term contract for the new incinerator which has been given the OK by Boris. ( not the greatest environmentalist! )?I've written to Zac about all this, giving my CVs at City Hall with Kens waste strategy for London.Immediate reply. "Thanks for this.Can I rely on your help?"" well yes as long as it isn't hands on"!

Rima Jones ● 3710d

The unanswered question is what difference does it make?Black bags go into wheelie bins -which take up to 10 times longer to unload if done in line with the correct health and safety procedures. = Huge increase in fuel consumption and reduced productive use of labour.Black bags contain the same contents whether in a wheelie bin, dustbin or other container or no container at all.When the refuse truck is loaded, it is the very same black bags and waste as now without wheelie bins.  No change whatsoever in how we recycle right now.Post collection the contents of the collection vehicle are the very same contents pre wheelie bin.The health and safety issues to residents are being avoided by authority after authority.Given the huge expenditure, authorities will afford towards Health and public safety, why the brazen ignorance when it comes to a real risk to every single resident inches from their doors and windows?Apart from fortnightly collections which will not even recoup the huge increase in time and fuel costs to carry out collections, this makes no financial sense whatsoever.The method is hugely inefficient in all bat boulevards and wide streets.Streets that are in the minority in these urban districts and streets that suffer huge congestion issues.There are some really strange dealings going on in the West London Waste Authority and way more secrecy than with other waste authorities if the recorded meeting are compared.  It looks very much like fingers in the pie of a complete lack of grasp of understanding.The sheers size of Wheelie bins in Ealing and Hounslow demonstrate this is flawed to the point of insanity and quite frankly, Councillors Mann in Hounslow and Mahfouz in Ealing ought to be fully investigated and called in to explain their exact involvements and dealings within the WLWA and why the excessive secrecy of a public body.

Raymond Havelock ● 3710d

Once the incinerators have been lit they can't be allowed to go out so they have to be constantly fed. Contracts are usually for at least 30 years and there is a high proportion of toxic ash which has to be land filled.No doubt municipal waste from litter bins and street cleaning will also be incinerated instead of going through MRF.On the Tube the litter goes through MRF with 80% recycled.I've written to Hounslow about paving gardens for bins so that there's no water run-off and subsequent flooding. Trees shrubs and plants absorb Co2 and support wildlife also improving human quality of life.I have said twice that I would be grateful for a reply regarding this.I received a reply to say that my house has been assessed as being suitable for a wheelie bin which promptly arrived. I've no intention of using it and it's gone under a large shrub. My tiny bit of residual will continue to go into a small dustbin and in a few months time when there's enough of it a son will take it to a waste centre. I haven't even had a rubbish bin in my kitchen for over 20 years, just a carrier bag on a hook behind a door and a small peddle bin for stuff for the composter which is under a bush in the corner of the front garden.Would they want me to get rid of it and install another wheelie for mixed recycling?No replies to anything they don't want to know about.

Rima Jones ● 3711d

They don't need us to separate anything for energy from waste - but they'd better keep everything crossed that there aren't restrictions on it - as have and still are being talked about.  It is much further down the waste hierarchy.Every time there is a change in collection there are unforeseen results.  Offer a free and easy to use garden waste collection and the collection goes up - and the composting and garden waste in the black sacks goes down.  Somebody then thought it would be easy to just change this to a paid for and wheelie bin only service and the collection goes down - especially in areas where there isn't plenty of space for the bins.  The concreting also goes up - so no doubt will the flooding...Start using green wheelies in the first place and a lot of garden waste that was composted goes into those instead of being composted. Severnside - isn't it due to be completed in 2016?  It is minimum waste contracts that are a problem. Residual waste has been reducing.  We've been exporting residual waste because Continental Europe's incinerators don't have enough.

Philippa Bond ● 3711d

When the green boxes were there they had everything thrown into them and it was a huge mess even though there were 2 palladins there and still are.The tenants tend to be short stay and the landlord has no control over what they do with their rubbish. The tenants aren't obliged to recycle and nor are any of us.If we have the new wheelies we can fill them up with whatever we like.They're being forced on all of us  on the presumption that none of us are recycling enough so the bins are there to stop us from throwing away more than will fit in. We're just statistics.That's why I say that addressed sacks for scanning including flats,with a charge made if containing recyclables, to cover disposal costs, is the only fair way to do it. We have to be responsible for our own rubbish.The wheelie "is big enough for 5 peoples residual waste." So if it's for only 1-2 people they can just bung everything in it and to hell with the recycling containers.But of course if it's going to the new WLWA incinerator in Sutton, the great landfill in the sky, renewable energy from waste can be claimed. As long as plenty of it keeps coming to keep the incinerators going. Contracts  are long term for viability.

Rima Jones ● 3711d

So why exactly doesn't that house have recycling facilities?The Landlord isn't bothered?The Tenants expect the landlord and the Council to do it?It is not that easy as a single tenant to organise the whole house.Usually Councils in order to encourage recycling make an effort by reducing the rental on the recycling bins but the Landlord or Agents should be managing the property.

Philippa Bond ● 3711d

There is a house in my road which is divided into 7 one-bed flats. There are 2 X 1100L council bins ( palladins ) and no recycling containers at all. There used to be some green boxes but not for a long time now. It's likely that they went into the big bins.I pick up all litter that comes over my fence or is dropped on the pavement and if it's recyclable I add it to mine. If not it goes in a litter bin.When the leaves come down from the pavement trees I sweep them up and put in my garden waste bags adding them to those which have come down on my side of the fence so that they will be recycled. I pick out all the crisp packets and pieces of film and take to a litter bin. I don't need a wheelie bin for other people's litter.

Rima Jones ● 3711d

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.  The Council aren't offering to pick up all the displaced bins.  Displaced bins which responsible, caring, thoughtful and practical residents had provided for themselves to protect their own waste. Bins which those residents used because they suited their homes better when until the Packaging Regulations were put in place the amount of packaging was sky-rocketing out of control.  Shopping habits have changed and fewer people now make those huge weekly food shopping expeditions - they shop more often for smaller amounts.  That is why there are now more small mini supermarket stores and fewer enormous supermarkets being built.Shame - I'm sure the Council could have spent less by dealing  with those residents who weren't taking responsibility for their waste. I still wonder whether it isn't especially for landlords who have failed to provide adequate recycling and waste facilities for their letting business which they should provide under Health & Safety regulations. It is the people who increase the recycling by asking for recycling boxes etc. not the wheelie bins - because they just sit there blighting the neighbourhood - they won't recycle for you - however hard you wish!

Philippa Bond ● 3711d

I won't be having any bins.With the last roll-out in Chiswick we could opt out. This time we can't but can appeal but if it has been assessed as suitable they are being forced onto us. Get rid of plants etc.I refuse to share bins. I wouldn't want other people using mine and I won't use anyone else's. I'll be responsible for my own and make my own arrangements for what little I have.After the protest in Braemar Road, Steve Curran said " if you don't want them, don't have them but your rubbish won't be collected"That's fine and I'm holding him to that."We will not empty your bin if it contains rubbish which can be recycled"Do they intend to go through all the black sacks in the bins before accepting or rejecting?There is a photo of bins, boxes and bags placed in a line in front of a large drive but not on the pavement. How many of us have such ideal premises?

Rima Jones ● 3713d

Ealing say that bins can be shared and you can have the smaller bins instead of the 240 litre ones.

Philippa Bond ● 3713d

Ealing intend to install 2 wheelie bins in every front garden, however small it is. 1 for mixed recycling ( basics only ) and 1 for non recyclable, plus carrier bags with textiles and batteries next to or on top of the recycling bin.Also food waste bins and garden waste bags. This applies also to houses divided into flats which is why they say that trees, shrubs and walls will have to be removed. " it is the residents responsibility to make space for the bins."Hounslow are considering doing the same.

Rima Jones ● 3713d

It doesn't make it easier to recycle.Ealing have also suggested that residents share bins and said that the red route system can be available to those properties which are unsuitable for wheelies.

Philippa Bond ● 3715d

''Wheelie bin collections have been successfully introduced in many parts of London, making it easier to recycle.' Presumably you are talking about the Council (Ealing) introducing general waste wheelies. How this is supposed to equate with 'making it easier to recycle' I do not know. More like 'making it easier to chuck everything into the one bin and be damned with recycling if you can possibly bring yourself to do it'.

Anne England ● 3715d