Forum Topic

Commercial Vehicles on Council Estates

Rewinding the clock back to the late seventies / early eighties you couldn't park a commercial vehicle overnight in the parking areas of a council estate. I have search the LBOH website to see if's still the same today but I have yet to find any useful information on this subject.The reason I ask is there has been a slow creep of long wheel base panel vans being parked around the Havafield Estate. Because they are a lot longer than a normal panel van when parked in a resident bay the stick at a lot further and create a road block. The emergency services have a hard enough job negotiating through the maze of vehicles on this estate without have this type of vehicle parked in the way.So is the old regulation of no commercial vehicles to be parked in resident parking bays in Council estates still in force?    

Bernard Allen ● 3494d22 Comments

It does not really matter whether these vehicles are parked within council estates or other residential streets.The council control the traffic orders in almost all local streets and can effect CPZs, traffic controls, one way systems, parking restrictions and vehicle size restrictions.Vehicles not used or owned by local residents seem to have appeared a lot since the local CPZ came into being in Albany Road.  Suddenly, vans and mini cabs all with permits are being left overnight and even all day. The drivers park, walk off or get into other cars and go. They do not actually live here.This differs a bit from those who do reside here and have a problem finding a safe place to park a vehicle vital to one's livelihood.This is why facilities ought to be factored in with any developments for adequate parking and affordable secure parking for sole traders and very small resident businesses.

Raymond Havelock ● 3490d

It's quite likely that right-to-buy properties on otherwise council estates will have covenants that restrict the actions of home owners in a similar way to council tenants 'in the interests of good Estate Management'. This is more likely with leasehold flats but also possible with ex-council houses. Perhaps forum bloggers who live on estates affected by this problem could look at their own lease or other legal documents and tell us what it says.

Peter Evans ● 3490d

"I'm not sure if similar conditions apply to leaseholders."Certainly I'd like to know where that leaves owner-occupiers who not only allow their commercial vehicles to park in resident's bays but also have their registered office on the estate. I doubt there is any easy answer to this, but I agree it's a bit much to have one rule for tenants and another for others.

Vanessa Smith ● 3490d

Thank you for you post GuyI'm not sure if similar conditions apply to leaseholders.It would be interesting to know if the regulations you posted do apply to Leaseholders, because if they haven't, the council has created a “them and us society” as regards to using communal parking areas. I hope something constructive happens soon as it seems to becoming a overnight car park for all and sundry.Weather on not it's viable to reopen one of the under ground car parks to residents again I don't know. If the LBOH are worried about the problems of the past, why not open one and charge for commercial vehicles of a certain size to park there, at least the charge could go some way to providing staffing to keep the old problems out.

Bernard Allen ● 3490d

The 'rule' written into tenancy agreements is as follows, and I understand it has not changed."5.19(f) You must obtain our written permission to regularly park a commercial vehicle or other large vehicle on any land owned or controlled by us. We consider a commercial or large vehicle to be where the overall size exceeds 184.7 inches in length (4.7 metres), 67.7 inches in width (1.7 metres) and 81.5 inches in height (2.07 metres)."Of course most of the parking areas in the likes of Haverfield are actually not restricted so 'anybody' can park whatever they like there, provided they obey normal traffic laws. It's only council tenants who might be in breach of their tenancy agreement, if I understand things correctly. I'm not sure if similar conditions aply to leaseholders. Councillors are working (slowly but surely) with officers to try to improve the parking situation on Haverfield in particular.

Guy Lambert ● 3490d

It certainly is a problem these days. Back in the 80's there weren't so many companies which allowed their drivers to take commercial vehicles home. These days many firms allow drivers to take vans and trucks home so they can make an early start in the morning without having to drive to their depot or warehouse to collect the commercial vehicle. Its all about money, money, money

Steve Taylor ● 3490d

Obviously any damage by vans to verges and pavements can be reported to the council, but Rule 250 of the Highway Code might help here.  It allows normal vehicles to park without lights at night (as long as they are 'facing in the direction of the traffic flow'), but says that larger vehicles (of more than 1525kg) 'and all vehicles with projecting loads' 'MUST NOT be left on a road at night without lights'.  This would apply to many commercial vehicles, though the powers that be might take some persuading to do anything about it.  Worth a try?

Peter Evans ● 3491d

Why are the problems caused any different or more worthy of note to those caused when these vehicles are parked on 'private roads'? Covered in my 14:18 post

Bernard Allen ● 3491d

Because back in the day, there was a notice at the beginning of our estate saying the No Commercial vehicles were permitted to park on the estate overnight.I wondered if that was still enforce today

Bernard Allen ● 3491d

The original poster refers to the problems caused by the parking of these vehicles on 'council estates'. Why are the problems caused any different or more worthy of note to those caused when these vehicles are parked on 'private roads'?

Anne England ● 3491d

Raymond the problem is about safety of all the residents living there, as the emergency services would find it very hard to get passed theses parked vehicles, which belong to well known national delivery company's, not owner drivers. Maybe they have been displaced by the numerous CPZ's that have been introduced in and around Brentford  and have gradually found other places to park.A normal sized panel van probably wouldn't be a problem, I think it's down to the long wheel based vehicles, which protrude out approximately a width of a car past the end of a parking bay, so reduced the width of the entrance to the housing blocks.It seems that life is cheap nowadays and everyone works on a risk management strategy, IE it's cheaper to pay out on one indecent, than to put measures in place to prevent it happening  in the first place.

Bernard Allen ● 3491d

Nearly all the vans belong to companies. Initial, Firmdale Hotels, D.H.L, etc all have been parked up since Friday and wont move till tomorrow. Saving on parking at business rates for the company. All will have to drive to a depot to load up first, saving the driver fares to get to work. All are parked in residents bays.They will all leave about 0700 each morning, how do I know? no not curtain peeking but the sound of the vans bleep when they reverse. So much for a residential area.

David Squire ● 3491d

"Where else would those commercial vehicles park, particularly the ones belonging to people who live on the Council estate?"The point is that the van drivers who cause problems where we are DON'T live here but the bloke whose business it is does. So we get roughly five vehicles from him. And as previously stated it ISN'T a 'council estate' nowadays.

Vanessa Smith ● 3491d

I think you will find that most of these long wheelbase vans are privately owned by self employed individuals and sole trader businesses.These types of vans are used as mobile workshops to delivery vans. It's all part of how people make a living in such an overcrowded region.  The trouble is facilites for small businesses, and sole traders are being eroded and priced so high as to make it completely impossible to be viable or compete against those who live elsewhere and have even lower overheads or none at all.As so many small businesses are being priced out and left in the lurch by local  authorities, self employment will increase and having a van to utilised will be necessary basic equipment for a great many, and these local people have to park them somewhere..No sign of small business and basic infrastructure facilities - like van parks and service facilities anywhere in the borough plan. Hardly a surprise because that think everyone works in an office.

Raymond Havelock ● 3491d

Brentford Dock, Augustus Close is plagued with commercial vehicle parking overnight. Parking for residents is extremely tight and the situation is growing worse. These companies are saving thousands in parking fees. LBH vans park there as well as a LB Richmond gardening truck. It is an issue in many roads making roads look unsightly and causing problems for residents. There used to be a bylaw against parking commercial vehicles on public roads.In the age of white van man it looks as though this has been forgotten or is too out of control for councils to be bothered.

Elizabeth Price ● 3493d

Where else would those commercial vehicles park, particularly the ones belonging to people who live on the Council estate?

Anne England ● 3493d

Over the past year I have contacted Hounslow Council many times via telephone, estate personal and the wardens, at times I think I am talking to myself. The vans are a nightmare. The size of them the damage they do the anti social damage is just the tip of the iceberg.I have seen the sprinter vans reverse into parking bays and smash down fence's block of pavements so mothers with pram's little kids and disable scooters have to go onto the road.  I have contacted the wardens who look at cctv see the van parked but because of a bush don't take action because they didn't see the van break the fence. To simple to look at the camera minutes before the van got there. Look at the backs of the vans all damaged as they have reversed into bollards, which a few have been knocked down. Some of this is done ten yards from the wardens base in Netley Road. Most done within 200 yards. There are four main culprits. Today Friday will be the worse as the drivers come home they will park up where ever they can, hundreds of yards from where they live ( won't hear alarm) and leave the vans till Monday morning. One does windows and brings rubbish home to put in the outside bins. There must be 12 cctv cameras watching the vans nothing is done. Last week when Brentford were at home all the vans were parked hanging over parking bays on pavements etc , who got tickets two cars who had parked one on the pavement and one on a dropped kerb.

David Squire ● 3493d

There is also the issue of businesses being run from the residential area which is what we have, hence we have several commercial vehicles taking up resident's parking bays, fortunately there is space - at the moment.

Vanessa Smith ● 3493d

HiMaybe because the surrounding roads are now residential parking, and for commercial vehicles the expense is quite a lot more. Or they are using work transport to get home and work.

Nemesh Patel ● 3493d

Your probably right, maybe a phone call to a well known delivery company with the vehicle reg might help, as I've never seen their vans parked on public roads over night before

Bernard Allen ● 3494d

The other thing to consider now is - a lot of former 'council estates' are primarily owner -occupier now. I know where we are the majority of homes have been bought.

Vanessa Smith ● 3494d

I don't think it is. We have a business in our road who parks its vehicles carelessly. One of the big vans always parks with the tail hanging over our rear access road thus obscuring sight lines and making it awkward to get in. My husband tried asking if they'd move up just a few yards and was met with a shrug before the ignoramus walked off. Bless them Hounslow put in a white line across the entrance only for that to be ignored. I only hope that on a Rugby day the pillock parks as usual with his rear hanging out of the marked parking bay and gets a ticket.

Vanessa Smith ● 3494d