Forum Topic

RATS DESERTING THE SHIP

As a UKIP supporter I never thought I would say this but I cannot believe the way the Parliamentary Labour have turned on Jeremy Corbyn.He is to my mind a thoroughly honest, decent, straight talking person who one cant help but admire and respect and given the tumultuous times this Country and Europe now face is a leader who should be fully engaged in our exit negotiations. Unlike Cameron he has remained calm and collected throughout only to be stabbed in the back by the type of Labour politician who drove millions to join UKIP and the out campaign by dismissing their concerns on Europe out of hand and taking Labour supporters for granted.

Robert Ayres ● 3329d6 Comments

The Blair Government's obsession with "hard working families" in southern England who were rewarded with tax credits even when the incomes of the families concerned was 3 or 4 times the average wage in northern constituencies represented by London-based MP's running weekend surgeries in the constituencies they otherwise barely understood was accompanied with a total policy neglect of former industrial areas in which low pay and high unemployment were rife.New social housing was not a priority under Blair - not surprising give the portfolio of private rented accommodation he and his wife were accumulating.Devolvement of public sector jobs out of London was again not a Blairite priority. This added to the population congestion in London, pandered to with immense infrastructure investment. (84% of the total in England and Wales at it peak)Tuition fees were a major disincentive to higher education in many of Labour's heartlands.An unpopular war in Iraq didn't help, while a failure to contest UKIP's arguments on immigration alienated many former supporters.Meanwhile, incompetent local councils such as Rotherham and Doncaster were tolerated because local leaders were prepared to cow tow to MP's such as McShane, Mandelson, and the Milibands, parachuted in from Labour HQ.The SNP are not a role model for alienated Labour supporters. However, their preparedness to take on the right on the issue of immigration is a major factor explaining why UKIP and parties to its right have failed to gain any traction north of the border. Immigration is lower in Scotland as a whole than in England. However, levels in most urban areas are much higher than in many of the former northern Labour heartlands that voted in droves to leave last Thursday.

John Connelly ● 3329d

No one in any party is prepared to look at the I word. Immigration, rightly or wrongly this is now seen as a major factor by a lot of the old core Labour supporters. I watched Corbyn's speech at the rally this evening and he straight away started to talk about refugees in a positive way. But this is not what old Labour supporters want to hear, they want to hear how immigration will be cut and how the UK will only take bona-fide genuine refugees.

Neil Chippendale ● 3329d

Labour has failed completely to learn any lessons from its virtual disintegration in Scotland.Mandelson, whose Hartlepool former constituents voted overwhelmingly to leave, and Hodge, whose constituents produced one of the worst results in London for Labour last Thursday, call for Corbyn's head without uttering a single word about WHY Labour has lost the plot in terms of policies. Shedding leaders on an annual basis, as they did in Scotland, is pointless when the career politicians - often parachuted into constituencies that they have no knowledge of by the party hierarchy - do not understand that if they are failing to connect with the people they claim to represent their days will be numbered.Incidentally, Roy Hodgson is available if they are looking for a steady hand at the helm.

John Connelly ● 3329d

What is being missed is a great deal of die hard rock solid Labour supporters voted to leave.It might not be a very clear picture in London and Cities because of the demographics.But  Labour heartlands in the rest of England and Wales where Tories are in a minority clearly do not agree enough.It clearly was a topic that has divided the UK and straddles both sides of our political spectrum.But right across the whole spectrum the whole case for and against was and still seems to be impossible to clearly dissect and put across in a clear open honest and factual way.Maybe that what the problem really is.

Raymond Havelock ● 3329d

I don't think it's as easy as that - all political parties are in a state of flux, Labour more so than the others, with a Leader elected by members, in a system that overrides the PLP's wishes completely. Corbyn is all of the things you said - but he has spent all his career on the back benches voting against, and disagreeing with Leaders of his party, he is no Leader. Politics is dirty and all of us who loathe the Tories wanted someone with guts, but who was pragmatic enough to see what had to be done and said. Saying something as stupid as he would give the EU 7.5 out of 10 in the middle of a increasingly nasty referendum debate was hardly helpful to his own party's stance. I think the PLP would have happily united behind him had he displayed some passion and personality, calm and collected might be O.K. sometimes, but not after watching your party be wiped off the map in Scotland, if that didn't tell him something, nothing will. Labour is now facing a fight for its very survival as a credible political force, if they are to do that, Corbyn and his deputy who thought rocking up at Glastonbury while the tumult swirled around his Leader was O.K. - both need to go. Labour has some gutsy, feisty women, sod Alan Johnson who was just as feeble in the Remain campaign, he is not the answer. Labour needs to re-connect with its natural supporters and bloody quick and Corbyn - if he has all these principles - would take a good, hard look at himself and put his party, and country first, and then resign with dignity.

Vanessa Smith ● 3329d

They seem to have forgotten that Labour has long been anti Federalist EU for decades, even before we joined the EEC. And highly sceptical about many facets of the EU.Now we have the Nick Clegg/Stephen Kinnock types who have never done a real day's work but just been fast tracked from political positions in europe and here representing people they cannot possibly identify with.Products of a political closed shop elite which is the EU way all over. Corbyn has been a Euro sceptic as long as he has been an MP and so have a great many other Labour MPs .They are as confused as just about everyone else on what it is all about and what it means.Apart from the dreadful display of incomprehension of the EU and what is really wrong with it, no one on either side of the argument was able to convey that clearly and concisely to the electorate.In a nutshell, It's run like FIFA which seems to now be unacceptable to most of the world.Despite being the second biggest economy in Europe, the largest broker between outside economies and trading blocs. The UK has always been a second division player in the EU with no chance of promotion.The original 6 founding countries still retain the top table and still hold the desire of De Gaulle to never let the UK be at the centre of European Power.In fact De Gaulle and others prevented the UK having anything to do with the Common Market.It's a big shame a third choice was not offered.Remain but with new terms.  the voice and will of 40 odd million voters could not then be so easily dismissed by the EU and I suspect is the same desire of many Europeans who believe in unity and open trade but not in a Federalist or    a one size for all culture and an overbearing bureaucracy.In future referendums. Parliamentary Party Leaders and the Prime Minister ought to be declared Neutral and unable to participate in a campaign. Their job is to get on with running the country, or it's opposition. And execute the will of the people.Given all politicians were free to follow their own preferences, this should not be a difficult practice to invoke.If at the end result. They feel unable agree with the outcome to do so then they can declare and resign.

Raymond Havelock ● 3329d