Forum Topic

Widening of the M4

Apparently the documents issued in connection with the Heathrow decision included a Highways England report on Surface Access Works :https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/562063/airports-commission-surface-access-works-strategic-road-network-proposals-validation-of-costs-and-delivery-assumptions.pdfWithin this is mention of widening the M4 between Junction 2 and 3 :Scope Definition of Proposed “M4 J2-3 Widening” and “M4 J4B Replacement”The scope of works proposed for widening of M4 J2-3 requires particular attention because of the elevated sections of the M4 immediately west of J2 and the high concentration of properties immediately adjacent to the highway boundaries over this section. Widening the M4 over this location is very challenging and it is highly probable that tunnelling would be required in the built-up areas to the west of M4 J2. There is a high level of inherent uncertainty in the scope of works required for widening of the M4 between junctions 2 and 3. Our assumed scope for the basis of our estimate is summarised below:M4 J2 to J3 - Road widening in both directionsoProvide one additional lane in each directionoWiden M4 Junction 3 eastbound merge and westbound off-slipoAdjust Motorway Service Area entry and exitsoRemove existing portal and cantilever gantriesoProvision of replacement sign and signal gantries complete with electronic and staticsignageoDemolish and replace three overbridgesoProvision of increased drainage capacityoRemove and replace lighting as requiredoReplace road restraint systemsoDemolish and replace one footbridgeoWidening of the M4 Junction 3 underbridge, three overbridges, one waterwaycrossing, one pedestrian underpass and one rail crossingoConvert the elevated viaduct/carriageway from junction 2 to westbound only travelfor approximately 3km to immediately west of the existing rail overbridgeoConstruct a driven 3 lane tunnel for eastbound traffic with the entry slot to the eastof the rail noted above and exiting in parkland to the north of Junction 2, ramping upto merge with the existing viaduct

Tim Henderson ● 3208d13 Comments

This is what Daniel Moylan from K&C council has said on Twitter - that Heathrow-related schemes will be smuggled in as general improvements. Having said that, the two lane M4 is a bottleneck, but you have to ask whether the widening cost is a sensible use of public money compared with public transport improvements.

Ian Speed ● 3186d

I see there is a motion on Heathrow before the Borough Council at next Tuesday's meeting :"Proposed by Councillor Steve Curran and Seconded by Councillor Amrit Mann“This Council notes the decision of the Conservative Government on Tuesday 25 October to approve the expansion of Heathrow Airport and the building of a third runway.We recognise that this decision will have huge implications for our borough and that, while many residents and businesses are directly involved in Heathrow and its supply chain, potential adverse consequences must be addressed.This Council reaffirms its continuing commitment to a better and not bigger Heathrow and resolves to redouble its efforts to ensure that residents are protected from any adverse consequences of the Government’s decision.Council further resolves to:1.    Bring forward new measures to reduce the impact of congestion, pollution and noise locally.2.    Seek compensation and appropriate mitigation from Heathrow Airport Ltd for all residents who will be adversely affected by the implementation of the Government’s decision.3.    Ensure that the voice of Hounslow’s residents and businesses is heard in the forthcoming national policy statement consultation.4.    Work with Heathrow Airport Ltd to achieve the best possible outcome for our borough.”I fear that the Council may not be able to protect the Borough from the adverse consequences of a third runway and any mitigation offered is likely to be inadequate.

Tim Henderson ● 3187d

Yes, Tim, I saw that too.Very worrying, as is the whole concept of Chris Grayling being in charge of transport. His tenure at Justice had the astonishing effect of making Michael Gove look good as his successor, though their collective incompetence is now beginning to come home to roost in spectacular and appalling failures in prisons, probation and courts.

Guy Lambert ● 3187d

Hardly a satisfactory answer.BBC reported that there will be an 8 to 10 pound congestion charge to use an 8 mile section of the M25.With the Mayor of London's utterly stupid plan to bring the ULEZ and in effect a Congestion zone to the Boundary of the NCR and SCR routes this will create a massive increase in traffic between the ring.That will be in effect right here in Feltham Hounslow, Brentford Ealing Southall Hillingdon Twickenham and over the river , Kingston Sunbury Richmond Hanworth. to name just a few.  Traffic of all sorts will be trapped just like it is in the current CC ring roads.The cost will be inflicted upon hundreds of thousands of residents and businesses effectively paying for Heathrow's existence. Just so aircraft can continue to spray pollution all over millions of inhabitants.It just shows how myopic things are and how money talks louder than sense.Why Ealing and Hounslow have not joined with the rest of the local boroughs affected is disgraceful.  Putting increasingly poorly paid and low skilled jobs and revenue above health, safety and quality of life of millions is not really responsible stewardship.

Raymond Havelock ● 3187d

I can't say that I am reassured by Chris Grayling's reply to Ruth Cadbury :Ruth Cadbury :Deep in the Airport Commission’s papers is the hugely costly and disruptive proposal to double the capacity of the M4 at its London end with a tunnel coming up in Brentford or Chiswick. Will the Secretary of State confirm the Government’s estimate of the cost of service transport infrastructure needed for a third runway at Heathrow, and what proportion of that will Heathrow airport be required to pay?Chris Grayling :There are two separate issues here. Improvements are needed to local roads in west London, and the M4 is one of those where plans are afoot now to deliver improvements way before we have a new runway in place. Heathrow airport will be expected to pay for the infrastructure improvements directly linked to the new runway. There are of course other improvements, such as M4 improvements, that are not directly linked and that have for some while been envisaged as part of the ongoing road improvement programme this Government are pursuing. My commitment is that where a transport improvement is required to make the third runway possible, that will be met by Heathrow airport.https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2016-11-17a.383.0

Tim Henderson ● 3187d

It is from the Highways England report on validating the surface access costs for Heathrow R3.But it doesn't agree with John Holland-Kaye's comments when Zac was questioning him at the Environmental Audit C'tee :from Q113 John Holland-Kaye: The biggest element that was identified there is the M4. I think there is over £4 billion of that £6 billion you refer to that is around the M4. We do not believe that the M4 needs to be widened and that goes against all Government policy, that you would increase motorway capacity in order to meet an increase in need. But there is absolutely no need for that anyway within the plans that we have because we can expand Heathrow with no more cars on the road. We have demonstrated that we can do that. We have a good track record of doing so and we have the committed rail projects to allow that to happen.http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/environmental-audit-committee/the-airports-commission-report-carbon-emissions-air-quality-and-noise/oral/24268.html

Tim Henderson ● 3207d

Sounds like about £7bn in total, just to make the area uglier and more full of traffic. I suspect this is linked to R3.

Ian Speed ● 3207d

"As much to the point, it must be fantastically expensive."£1267M is the central estimate for the J2 to J3 bit - cost range £763M to £1785M, all heavily hedged with 'there is uncertainty'Central estimate of cost for the M4 and M25 works is ~£3Bn @2014 prices so my guess of what it would really cost is more like £5Bn. And of course that excludes anything that is not Highways England ie anything West of Lionel Road.I'm starting a whip round.

Guy Lambert ● 3207d

Would be better to put the entire M4 into an 8  lane tunnel from HestonAnd run all the way to Hammersmith or Beyond.The A4  could utilise the existing flyover and the lower road a bus way and local traffic road using one side.The underneath of the flyover could become industrial and small business units and the rest of the space reclaimed as parkland low level housing and schools.About as much chance of that as an estuary airport!

Raymond Havelock ● 3207d

This sounds utterly barmy and will make a complete mess of the area and destroy Carville Park North, as Guy says. As much to the point, it must be fantastically expensive. Instead of this, the DfT should be trying to get people to use the A4 more or A40. This sounds like one of the horrific road schemes that dominated John Major's last few years in office before he lost the election and they were all abandoned.

Ian Speed ● 3207d

“However, the impact of the proposed widening of M4 J2-3 is an area of concern. Providing an additional lane of capacity in both directions between M4 J2-3 is likely to impact the surrounding road network at J2 and may require substantial works in this heavily built-up location. An assessment of the impact of proposals on the surrounding road network at M4 J2 would require wider validation of the Commission’s traffic modelling and forecasting. This is outside our scope but we consider there is a risk of increased scope of works required to cater for the additional capacity at M4 J2 in particular.”They can say that again!

Guy Lambert ● 3208d

Agree it seems bonkers !Somewhere, I think "London Playing Fields" was mentioned as a possible western end of the tunneled section rather than a portal in Boston Manor Park itself.No doubt it could interface nicely with the Hammersmith flyunder tunnel.

Tim Henderson ● 3208d

Thanks for spotting this, Tim.So we will get to keep our beloved elevated section of the M4 as westbound only whilst the eastbound section will go underground, presumably under Boston Manor Park and emerging in 'parkland north of Junction 2' so I guess that means sayonara to Carville Hall Park North.Can somebody explain to me how, in this wizard scheme, the extra traffic will then negotiate Chiswick roundabout or the remaining 2 lane elevated section above it, or the A4 through Chiswick and beyond.It seems perfectly bonkers on a very quick skim.

Guy Lambert ● 3208d