Forum Topic

Before the Great West Road was  built........

Before the Great West Road was built in the 1920's etc,...I suppose all the old traffic, electric trams, old type buses, old type cars and horse and carts tstage coaches etc travelled east-west along Brentford High Street....from Kew Bridge to Busch Corner.Were there any roads or house demolished to make way for the building of the Great West Road?Boston Park Road (on which the Con Club is located) crosses the Windmill Road at the Globe Pub junction and leads into narrow Eastbourne Road with its neatly maintained terraces of Victorian Cottages? Looks like an old hamlet in that area of alleyways.So: Any old Great West Road stories would be of interest.

Jim Lawes ● 7315d43 Comments

Bill Drinkwater, on another thread, has encouraged me this early evening to dig out my collection of 1895 Ordnance Survey maps to study Carville Hall.But wow..what's this at Ealing Road..before the Great West Road was build..a CRICKET GROUND! It lies south of Eastbourne Road, east of Brook Lane, and west of Ealing Road..and 100 yards north of Layton Road!On wonders which team played there?No doubt the information is in old copies of the Brentford and chiswick Times!

Jim Lawes ● 7257d

Emma;Thanks for your posting..you certainly have been working in some prestigeous buldings along the Great West Road...and now ..lucky you..you are in the "world class" building of GSK. Are the views extra special from the top floors?The first building that you referred to (SB House)..is that not the tall one..now called Wallace House?  Once that tall building was the Headquarters of BOAC..the Britsh Overseas Airways Corporation..back in the 50's and 60's....and it had a Midland Bank on the corner with Clayponds Lane.The underground subway you mentioned..under the GWR is, I'm sure, a revelation to us all!

Jim Lawes ● 7260d

Morag..thanks for that piece of text about the GWR..You must have delved the archives of the TIME magazine for that....and as it took a little while to download..I've copied and pasted it below.***July 6, 1925***"""Road improvement schemes have figured largely in the plans of past Governments for relief of the unemployed. Only last year, Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Snowden earmarked $25,000,000 for road building.Recently his Majesty the King opened a section of the Great West Road, commonly called the Bath road, which runs from London to Bath. A fine stretch of road already joins Bath to Bristol and a further stretch of improved road is to connect Bristol with Exeter and Plymouth.The foundation of the Great West Road is of 12 in. of stone or other hard substance, on which is placed 9 in. of cement and a wearing surface of 2 in. of rock asphalt. It is 120 ft. wide for most of its length and a space of approximately 25 ft. has been left for future widening. Footpaths run at either side and planting of trees 60 ft. apart has begun.According to the provisions of the parliamentary act under which the road was built, it may not be broken up by electric, gas or water companies, or the post office authorities for underground telegraph and telephone cables"""That last part is very interesting!! and I'll keep my eye out for any contractors breaking the agrrement!!

Jim Lawes ● 7260d

Jim,Does anyone remember Kelvinator's, the fridge people, at the Chiswick end of the GWR?I worked there briefly as a temp. during the 1950s.A couple of years ago, in the back room of a country pub in Co. Waterford, I spotted a Kelvinator fridge still working!  My fridge/freezer will not be working in 50 years' time - built in obsolescence will see to that.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7260d

Sarah,Your comment on 28.4.05 re photo of child and taped up windows in WW2...to whom in the library did you give your photo, as I have a similar picture taken in Grosvenor Road, outside our taped kitchen window?  It might be of interest..Mum and me aged 9, wearing Dad's Home Guard hat (Middlesex Regiment cap badge)1943.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7260d

Hi Jim,I started working for GSK fifteen years back and was based at the Lucozade building which has now been bought by Audi and the people situated at the Lucozade building site were allowed 15 minutes extra for their lunch break as we had to make our way across the Great West road to our fellow building the then named SB House (opposite) to buy our fodder.  Interestingly, the route we took was an underground subway linked between the two buildings underneath the great west road, I'm sure not many people are aware of this and it is a shame that it will probably never be utilised again as Barratt and Audi don't have a link so to speak.  Needless to say, I then moved over to SB House, then onto New Horizons Court and am located now at the Grand building GSK House.

Emma Rowlatt ● 7261d

Yes I remember Jock's Box and the pub the Gardner's Arms, wish I could remember the family who ran it. My Grandmother lived in Wellesley Road a bit behind that pub. I was Christened in St. James's church! Lovely memories; I'm now retired and living in USA for over 40 years.

Audrey Walton ● 7261d

http://www.crownedanarchist.com/0400uk/516isleworth/FrameSet.htmIt's almost certain that before the Great West Road was built some houses on Thornbury Road had to be demolished...as the road cut across it. The houses are 1910 ish..the GWR was built in 1918-1925.The entrance to Osterley Park ..in the old days..was at Wyke Green where those two gatehouses are...opposite the Hare and hounds Pub.When the Underground railway was opened in 1883 the Osterley and Spring Grove Station was located in Thornbury Road. The entrance to the Park was moved to the top of Thornbury Road  .Jersey Road had been called Scrattage Lane...after the farm /hamlet towards Heston.http://www.crownedanarchist.com/0400uk/516isleworth/FrameSet

Jim Lawes ● 7297d

Sarah - No unfortunately I do not have any photos in my possession, the only ones I think I have are class pictures of my fellow pupils at Lionel Road School, they are fading fast,or were when I last looked at them. The only pictures I have are those indelibly printed in my mind!

Doris M. Lediard ● 7301d

Great news Colin.Next time you see her..take along a handheld tape recorder..and record your conversations about dear old Brentford!

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

I might have a little more yet.... I emailed the contents of this thread to Mum who just replied to say that she's working on a few memories of her own, as a 73 yo who was born in Brentford and who lived there most of her life it should make interesting reading... personally I can't wait!

Colin Halstead ● 7304d

Doris - do you have any interesting local photos?  The History section at the local main Libraries take (and make) copies of photos.  We have just added a photo of one of our neighbours as a kiddywink in a pram during war time, because she is sat in front of the taped up French windows.  They also had a photo of the Zeppelin flying over the Railway line at Syon Lane on its way to Hanworth Air park, it would have come over Brentford, which has been copied too.  These photos are sadly being destroyed by age damage or people not realising their significance, as time goes on.

Sarah Felstead ● 7304d

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,728510,00.htmlJim I thought you might be interested in this?

Morag Campbell Hawick ● 7304d

http://fodm.fotopic.net/p3949579.htmlThanks to the friends of Dukes Meadows website..(Paul Allen?) this very old map appears on the photo website and shows the farm areas near the site of the current Chiswick Flyover.Can you recognise any of the roads?  CHR and Wellesley Road?

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

http://www.nms.ac.uk/concorde/asp/main.asp?id=3&day=1&index=11Click on the image to enlargen the photo...of the Concorde convey passing in front of the Gillette Building last April..and turning south into Syon Lane...at about 4am that morning.The convey parked near Busch Corner ..before easing its way down Park Road...onto the waiting barge near the London Apprentice Pub..Isleworth "Dock"!

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spelthorne.ac.uk/mp/11/27.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spelthorne.ac

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

This item found on the internet.....St. Francis of Assisi, Great West Road, Osterley, Isleworth, Middlesex. c. 1933 - 1935.This is a proud church on the Great West Road, a short distance from the Chiswick flyover.  Its lofty apse, which faces this major road, is eyewitness to the traffic thundering past.  None of Shearman's other churches can claim such a public image.  This church is orientated north-south, with the apse facing north. Tucked away on its east side is the attached vicarage and vestries and on the west side is the church hall, all designed by Shearman.The site was originally acquired through the offices of the Vicar of All Saints, Isleworth so that a church could be built to serve the Northumberland estate and those employed by the factories on the Great West Road.  Money for the purchase of the site was raised from the Diocesan Fund and a gift of £1,250 from the Forty-Five Churches Fund.  This enabled a start to be made in the construction of the Church Hall.  A similar contribution from the Diocesan Fund and the Ecclesiastical Commissioners enabled the hall to be completed and a further grant from these bodies went towards the cost of the Vicarage.  A donation of £7,000 from the newly appointed Vicar, Fr. Frederick Howard Harding, in memory of his wife Mary Ann Harding, made possible an immediate start of the Church building.  The builders were Dove Brothers, Islington.  It is built of Claygate stock brick with contrasting stone bands externally with a slate roof and Fletton brick internally.In the Spring of 1934 the Church Hall was opened and services held there until the Church itself was completed some 10 months later.On 23rd March 1935 the Bishop of London, the Right Reverend Arthur Foley Winnington-Ingram consecrated the Church.Some additional fittings were added in 1958 in the memory of Fr. Harding; these included the Transfiguration Chapel with its altar, cross and candlesticks.

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.photolondon.org.uk/assoc_pages/gunnersbury/4.%2520Pyrene%2520factory.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.photolondon.org.uk/assoc_pages/gunnersbury/gunnpics3.htm&h=237&w=300&sz=23&tbnid=WvmDhfittpwJ:&tbnh=87&tbnw=110&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgreat%2Bwest%2Broad%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DGIt seems a long http! Hope it works..Some notes and a picture of Pyrenes from Google.

Jim Lawes ● 7304d

Sarah,    I lived in Chiswick for the first few years of my life, then we moved to Brentford, off Clayponds Avenue, then for a few years in Challis Road, then after I married my family moved back to Chiswick.

Doris M. Lediard ● 7304d

Jim,You'd never get my zimmer frame into the van.....Only joking, but my sister and I sometimes say to one another, "What if we popped over  for one last visit?"Then we think of the old adage that one should never go back!Each time we have visited our old home in Grosvenor Road (viewing only from the outside), it seems to get smaller.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7304d

Jim,    Lionel Road brings back more memories of my childhood. Thats the school that I went to as a small child, that is until "taking the scholarship exam" at age eleven, then after a time of being evacuated, I attended the school in Burlington Lane.    I do not remember a cyclist cafe opposite Gillette Corner, most of my cycling was done out of Hayes, Hillingdon, Uxxbridge and the gorgeous country of Buckinghamshire.  I belonged to  a cycle club based in Hayes, we used to meet at some Tea Rooms way down Yeading Lane, I know I turned right at the Grapes on the Uxbridge Road. In those days traffic was almost non-existent, due to the difficulty of getting petrol, we had the roads to ourselves, more or less.    Oh happy days!

Doris M. Lediard ● 7304d

Ann and Doris:  When you next pop over..It will such fun and so interesting to visit the old sites with you....memories!

Jim Lawes ● 7305d

"Another factory I remember was the Hudson's Tera-plane place, also Tecalimit, I'm not sure of the spelling. Does anybody remember Sunleys, this was at the junction of Lionel Road and the GWR, right next to Gunnersbury Park. Not a factory but I think a landscaping firm, had a low wall around it. As kids we used to run along the wall    Help, too much nostalgia, makes me homesick"Doris: Thank you for your excellent story.Invaluable.Coming from Chiswick, on the south side of the GWR, before the railway bridge..was a motorcycle place called RAE'S..then after the bridge TECALEMIT LTD (Lubrication experts!),then some engineers, then ACME (who recently were roller shutter contractors),then EDWARDS ENGINEERING (cylinder grinders),then EMERSONS (Cast stone manufacturere).then Lionel Road..which came from Kew Bridge Station.  I'm quoting from Kelly's Directory for 1938..but some pages are torn away!.That island with low walls at the bottom of Lionel Road was..as you say..Sunleys ..garden contractors. Up the road was the old Lionel road School..and nearby was the changing rooms for Carville Hall Playing fields.Apparently there was a cafe place at the Dome. Do you remember the Cyclists Cafe at Gillette Corner.Last night, I was looking at the Gillette Building...it is really emormous...and was built at the top of the GWR hill....SYON HILL.Doris: Its great to hear from you.

Jim Lawes ● 7305d

Doris, Neil, Jim, Colin & all,This is one of the best threads yet!  Thank you all.    Loved Doris's tour down Memory Lane.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7305d

Jim,The POWs in Strand on the Green were Germans, and although I was only 11/12 years old myself, I thought they all looked very young.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7305d

Doris.  Lovely story.  May I ask, where did you live?

Sarah Felstead ● 7305d

I distinctly remember the Dome Garage, not far and across the GWR from Alpha Laval, where I also worked for a brief period. At the time I was living in Hayes, and used to cycle to work through Southall, come out at the Gillette Corner and then down the lovely cycle tracks to work!    Thompson and Norris was a cardboard box manufacturing company, they also had a factory in Hayes.  I believe that it was close to the canal and our huge rolls of paper were delivered by barge.     During the war at one time we had German and Italian P.O.W. working in the factory.  The Italians were not so industrious were more interested in smiling at the girls.  The Germans were used as engineers etc.    Some of our biggest customers were Ever Ready, H.J. Heinz, and Chivers as I recall. I also remember that my boss used to send me somewhere in the vicinity of Gillettes to deliver by hand paperwork connected with the P.O.W.  I would deliver or pick up (my memory is hazy) stuff to a soldier, but not before I had to walk past a lot of Prisoners, who seemed to be lounging around, watching my progress! I was a shy sixteen year old at the time, and it was an ordeal to say the least. I think my boss the Works Manager did it to punish me!    Does anybody remember the name of the factory across the GWR from Thompson & Norris? A rocket dropped on that place in the middle of the morning, I remember the panic, and at the moment of the explosion seeing the walls of our office come in and then go out. The facory must have been wrecked and I'm sure that it caused a lot of casualties, but we were O.K. at Thompson & Norris.    I also remember coming back after having lunch one day when a Doodle Bug flew over the GWR I was paralized, this was at Macleans Corner, everybody was laying prone around me, I'm still standing, thank goodness the D.Bug kept on going.  Another near escape!    Another factory I remember was the Hudson's Tera-plane place, also Tecalimit, I'm not sure of the spelling. Does anybody remember Sunleys, this was at the junction of Lionel Road and the GWR, right next to Gunnersbury Park. Not a factory but I think a landscaping firm, had a low wall around it. As kids we used to run along the wall    Help, too much nostalgia, makes me homesick.

Doris M. Lediard ● 7305d

John: Thats interesting about the Italian POW's. Where you aware that there was POW Camp..with barbed wire and all that..in Magnolia Road, off Thames road in Chiswick.They used to hand me sweets! through the wire...as I passed by on my way to School..Strand on the Green.

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

The Boathouse was the venue for frequent 'full and frank' exchanges of views between the Italian POW's from the Kew camp and the 'rougher element' from Brentford and Chiswick who traversed the bridge to 'meet' the Italians, according to Met Police reports from 1943/44.

John Wood ● 7307d

Nigel: Some developers seem to behave like thugs these days..with an interest in only maximising profits.Is that so?

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

What about the boathouse on Brentford's side of Kew Bridge? The one the previous owners of the site demolished without permission? The Council demanded its re-instatement as a condition of any re-development of the site,- but as the present owners are St George, guess how much interest they show in complying. I was given copies of a couple of excellent photos of the boathouse recently, quite an eye-opener as to what we had until very recently.

Nigel Moore ● 7307d

Gillian Cleggs book "BRENTFORD PAST" mentions a lot of the factories along the GWR in days gone by...and the old 91 buses would certainly have had a busy life getting residents to work on time.The cycle tracks were wide and busy...and I recall the take away cafe at the corner of Syon Lane (northside)..opposite Gillettes..that was a rendez vous for cycling enthusiasts.The Henlys Clock Tower is still there..but without the petrol pumps and car showroom. The Smiths Crisp Factory was along there wasn't it ..before the entrance to Gunnersbury Park?  Those old changing rooms on Carville Hall Park (north) are still standing after 60 years..and I remember playing football there for Strand on the Green school in the 1940's.Remember the DOME GARAGE on the corner of Ealing Road? The Pullens Factory was on the opposite corner..instead of the Rank Video place.The old BOAC (Airline HQ) "skyscraper"! is now called Wallace House...and you will recall that the officeshere..and the factories adjoining were busy during WW2 on the WAR effort. (Our distinguished poster..Paul Allen was intrigued to find HG Products located here...a part of the Chiswick products /Cherry Blossom empire..making aeronautical acessories for the war effort.Then there was Macleans on the corner of the Boston Manor Road. and further along was Trico's. (windscreen wipers?)DORIS mentioned Thompson and Norris. The 1938 Kellys Directory says that they were Carton Manufacturers. The old railway bridge for the Southall to Brentford Docks steam trains crossed the GWR at this point....down in the road dip..that tended to get very flooded on occasions!Gillian mentions Jantzen Swimming Costume factory, the Sperry Gyroscope factory..and Pyrenes.That empty Alfa Laval office tower was once the HQ for Brentford Nylons.  I did masses of  mailing work for them in 1974-1975. thankfully I got paid. they went broke in 1976!All Gillian Clegg's books highly recommended..as are Carolyn Hammond's and many others..Andrea, Janet etc . It seems they are all friends..and have a wealth of local knowledge at their fingertips.

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

Colin mentions the Boathouse Pub on the Surrey side of Kew Bridge..on the west side.Alongside the Bridge was a permanent Fairground with slot machines and that big roundabout thing with horses ;0)..and big swings with the planks of wood underneath..that was raised to slow you down.THE BOATHOUSE...some of our readers may recall..had a small dancefloor on the groundfloor...and upstairs was a large dancing area that hosted traditional jazz nights in the late fifties. I recall Dick Charlesworth and his City Gents..but I believe that there were some more famous names. It was alive say in 1957.On the Brentford side of Kew Bridge..in the middle of the road.. was the fountain and trough that was mentioned. It was here in the centre of the road..that the trams used to terminate in the old days.(1901 onwards) after their journey from Shepherds Bush. This was the time the new bridge was opened by Edward VII.Who remembers those two Lions outside the entrance to the Star and Garter Pub?  We never passed by without sitting astride them!...on our way to the 65 bus stop for a day out to Chessington or Epsom!

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

What a relief it must have been for the traffic travelling westwards...coming out of London...knowing that it didn't have to face the bustle of Brentford High Street!All those pubs! All those wheel barrows! All those dignified trams and tram lines  through the narrowness of the High Street. It must have been delightful to avoid all that..and sweep right and take the dual carriageway ..the new GWR from  1925.Adrian mentions the Farm Fields to the right of Gunnersbury Avenue..before the Power Road developement. The 1777 map shows it as WHITE POST FIELDS.  Much later St James Church was there..consecrated in 1887 according to Gillian Clegg. What a wonderful year that was. Queen Victoria's Jubilee and the Australian Cricket touring team playing Thornton's X1 in Chiswick!! (Sutton Court).Next to St James' Church was a posh garage/coachbuilders called Elkingtons..the existence of which was being researched by a Chiswick Forum reader some months ago.You will all remember the National Westminster Bank on the GWR corner with Gunnersbury Avenue...but do many of you remember Jock's Box the cafe behind it?  I remember the old roundabout..the shape of a capital D on its side...with trolleybus wires and all. I remember waving at the Queen Mother there in about 1951,,and she waved back as no-one else was around. Her Limo was stuck in a traffic jam!The pub ..several have mentioned ..was called the Gardeners' Arms on the corner of Surrey Crescent. Good to hear your memories and stories.

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

Thank you for all your interesting postings...and Adrian too during this busy time.It seems that the Great West Road was constructed across open land! In her book BRENTFORD PAST,page 21..Gillian Clegg says that the scheme for the GWR was adopted in 1912 but had to be put on hold because of WW1.  So thats when they decided that they MUST by-pass Brentford High Street and Hounslow Too!It was revived in 1918 as a means of employing unskilled returning soldiers. So: the Great West Road and the Great South West Road to Bedfont was opened by George V (with Queen Mary?) in 1925.  Thank goodness for those wide cycle tracks!The King was in Chiswick again about that time to open the new Civil Service Sports Ground on Dukes Meadows.

Jim Lawes ● 7307d

My grandfather, who worked at Brentford Mkt, once told me how he used to deliver potatoes to the Smiths factory on the GWR by horse and cart.... can also remember my Mum telling me how many of the GWR factories were used to support the WW2 effort, manufacture of munitions etc..... which also reminds me that many of the houses in New Rd once had iron railings before they were ripped up and similarly used to support the war effort..... mention of The Star & Garter at Kew Bridge reminded me of another lost pub, The Boathouse, which was on the opposite corner... I could go on but I'm already getting homesick!

Colin Halstead ● 7308d

Again those who remeber the Q Theate a book on its history can be bought from the Traty Centre Library.

Neil Chippendale ● 7311d

Such interesting history about the Great West Road!  I do not remember anything about before it was built, but a lot of my childhood was spent on it. I'm glad that my father is not alive to learn that the space that his favourite pub was on has not been used.  He practially went into mourning for that place, when he learned the bad news that it was to be done away with. Many Sunday evenings he would walk us down the Great West Road from Brentford to the pub where would would sit outside enjoying our drinks and the Smiths Crisps, then walk happily back home to Brentford.    I also worked at Thompson & Norris which was on the Great West Road, close to Macleans. I also remember the Q Theatre, and saw many performances there.

Doris M. Lediard ● 7311d

Adrian,Thanks for that nice potted history.I remember the trough at Kew bridge, and the old Q Theatre, and used to live in Wellesley Road.  This is the first time I've heard the story of King William III!  Amazing.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7311d

Jim,My grandfather, who died why back in 1972, used to cycle around the Brentford & Chiswick area on Summer Sunday's in the years before 1914.  According to him, the whole area was a knot of pretty country lanes and owed more to rural Middlesex than the present Greater London area that we all know today.Before the Great War there was a fruit farm on the site of the Peugot showroom by the Chiswick Flyover.  The farm finally vanished in the 1920's and shortly afterwards the immediate area was re-developed to form the the Power Road Industrial Estate. The storage rooms for the fruit were still standing on the current site of the B&Q in the Gunnersbury Avenue until the 1980's.  They had long since been converted into a factory.A stream used to flow all the way down the Gunnersbury Avenue from the still visible pond in Pope's Lane.  Kids used to fish in this stream and, in those days, it was part of the Rothschild Gunnersbury Estate.  Today, the houses of the Gunnersbury Avenue and the North Circular Road cover the stream.A public house used to site on the now vacant land opposite the telephone exchange and the petrol station, just off the Chiswick Roundabout until the 1950's.  It was a grand old Victorian place and after the authorities had demolished it, they realised that they did not need the land after all.  A few trees were planted and so it still exists as a "vacant lot".  A sad loss for nothing in return.I can remember the old Brentford Market horse trough and fountain at the junction with Kew Bridge.  This stood until the 1970's and was then removed to the Western International Market in Feltham.Opposite the Express Hotel on Kew Bridge was the rather grand Star and Garter coaching Inn.  The garden, where I played as my parents enjoyed a drink, is now a car park for the office staff that now inhabit the altered pub building.  This closed around 1984.Next to the Star and Garter, on a site later known as Parson House, once stood the Q Theatre.  Many later famous actors got their first break there in the years immediately after World War Two, including Dirk Bogarde. Finally, Wellesley Road, which leads from Brentford to Chiswick, is on the site of an ancient country lane.  There in the 1690's a group of Jacobites attempted to murder Protestant King William III as he rode down the lane enroute to his hunting grounds.  The plot was foiled and the traitors were executed shortly afterwards.

Cllr. Adrian Lee ● 7312d

Jim, I'll bet Brentford was lovely then with the orchards(the Syon estate was one also years ago)and very few buildings on that side by the sound of it. Wonder what the local cider/perry was like!

Keith Iddon ● 7315d

Jim,This is one of those times when I kick myself for not picking Dad's brain and memories a lot more. He once said a lot of the Great West Road was orchard in his childhood.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7315d

Looking at the 1894 OS map it seems that very few buildings were knocked down, They ran the road between Boston Park Road and Glenhurst. Once it had crossed the Half Acre it ran into orchards.I've seen pictures of the traffic jams along the High street before the building of the GWR. It became a bottle neck.James Marshall who works as the Local studies Librarian at Hounslow Library has written a very good book on the road.

Neil Chippendale ● 7315d

http://www.ealing-web.com/ealing_c1890.htm

Jim Lawes ● 7315d