Forum Topic

Alfa Laval/Brentford Nylons Tower

Does anyone know the current state of play for the re-use and refurbishment of this building? I see that detailed planning permission was granted on 17 January 2017 for the use of the building as a 180-bed hotel and 4,667 square metres of offices. Other buildings were permitted in the same decision notice but it's not clear which, if any, of these form part of the already completed development (the dwellings, Premier Inn etc.) within the old Baltic Centre site.When I went along to a presentation, by Hunter Page Planning, at the Novotel in about September 2015 I got the impression that the plan at that time was for Hyundai to use the tower as their flagship showroom and offices. Is this still the intention?Whatever the precise plans I wonder if there is any indication of a timetable for the refurbishment. Alfa-Laval moved to Camberley in about 1996 and the tower has been derelict since then. It's high time for this eyesore to be given a makeover and for the advertising hoardings to be removed.  As an aside, it may be that about 137 housing units have already been built on the old Baltic Centre (which is now called Westside and includes Baltic Avenue). These were originally described as a mix of private and "affordable" homes and when they first went on the market in 2015 prices began at £310,000. I see from Zoopla that the average price in Baltic Avenue has been £535,000 and a 4-bed unit recently went for £795,000.

Jim Storrar ● 3121d29 Comments

Jim, I don't exactly have news but I'm trying to follow up. I talked to the guys on site when they were shutting down a few months ago. They said there was some disagreement between Hyundai (tenant) and the freeholder, a company called Ropemaker which I think was a subsidiary of the ubiquitous Macquarie. I recently discovered that Hyundai are now the landlords of Baltic Avenue and the planning application, as you suggest, seems to confirm their continuing interest. I have a contact with Hyundai and I've written to him seeking more info.As to the Ealing Road site, planning permission never ensures that anybody will build anything. I met with the landowners during the planning discussions - they were Greek if I remember correctly - and they seemed eager to get on with building but we, and the planners, have heard no more. I have asked if we can get an update. By the way, the 2017 permission replaced an earlier one, which wasn't built and has caused some difficulties with refuse collection for neighbouring buildings.

Guy Lambert ● 2263d

I wonder if anyone has any updates on progress (or lack thereof) on this site?Hyundai intended to use the redeveloped/converted tower building for their flagship showroom. Work started several months ago but this has ceased and we now have a tower with a plastic shroud.It seems that Hyundai's interest has not ended because on 29 May 2019 they registered another planning application. This application is to vary one of the conditions attached to the permission for a digital advertisement (granted on appeal) on the western flank of the tower. As I understand it this condition was designed to safeguard the amenity of local residents by limiting the frequency with which the advertisement could change to no less than 30 seconds.On the same site, on the corner of Ealing Road and the A4, there is still a vacant site (Block C) on which planning permission was granted in 2017 for a 13-storey block with 6,583 sq. m. of offices. It was estimated that this development would provide 540 jobs. I wonder what the reasons are for such glacial progress.

Jim Storrar ● 2264d

Anyone know what current status of this Hyundai project is?  The scaffolding seems to be covered up now but no sign of any further work..

Tony Griffiths ● 2359d

Thanks Guy for nosing around and confirming some facts!I had been led to believe that Hyundai owned the site rather than some other freehold owner.  Clearly not. We live VERY close to this site so are interested in any progress / fate for the building..  We were made aware by Hounslow Planning a few weeks back of a fresh application for advertisement here, and commented on it.  [Ref. P/2018/4530 or 00505/Z/AD47 which I see has just been refused] . But I don't really get why Hyundai continuing with building a car showroom is contingent on the freeholder being able to use the scaffolding to advertise at the same time, considering that the advert permission had already expired before the current construction works started..?Thx, Tony

Tony Griffiths ● 2393d

The cynic in me wonders if the current visual state of the building is just what the freeholder wants to run an argument in support of a new advertisement display.Personally, when I view the development of the former Baltic Centre site as I did today driving on the elevated M4 I really don't feel any 'appetite' for fighting a battle against advertising on the Alfa Laval building - personally speaking I think the development which has taken place there is a right hotch-potch, and I shudder at the promixity of the balconies for the residential units to the hotel room windows etc.It's a good example of where development ticks all the boxes and can't be refused by an LPA, but at the same time people live there because they have to as they can't afford anything better than because that's where they would aspire to live.And hence, against that literal background context, I really can't be 'excited' about whether or not the tower can be used for advertising.

Adam Beamish ● 2393d

I nosed round the site today and met the site manager (?)for the main contractor.He confirmed that the project has been 'shelved' by the client, Hyundai and that they are in attendance merely making the site safe.He did not know about advertising signs but he did mention that 'somebody else' owns the freehold and this appears to be an issue for the client.The council has fought a long battle against the advertisement on this building: we repeatedly refused planning permission and were repeatedly overruled on appeal until finally last year the tribunal agreed with us.It's conceivable the landowners are lining up another attempt to restore the advert: I've heard eye-watering values attached to its rental. I believe (not 100% sure) the freehold is held by an overseas conglomerate via a wholly-owned UK subsidiary.

Guy Lambert ● 2393d

How else do we find out things Ian? We hear things and ask questions. I was 'told by someone' who works for the company involved with the scaffolding that the buyers wanted to acquire the freehold but the owner wouldn't sell, on account of the value of the site as ad space (to Apple).

Steve Bullman ● 2394d

'Told today by someone'Sums it up, not a lot of evidence there for belief in the statement. That is how Fake News starts folks!!

Iain Muir ● 2394d

News to me. Am enquiring.

Guy Lambert ● 2394d

After seeing lots of progress already with demolishing the outside of this building, gutting large parts of inside  and putting scaffolding all the way to the top, I was told today by someone that the work has now stopped / contracts cancelled / the scaffolding will be coming down again..!Can anyone confirm any truth to this / what is going on?

Tony Griffiths ● 2395d

Yep, I'm sure that entirely unauthorised 'wee' cafe on the corner of Layton Road and Brook Lane Road, which the Council refused planning permission several years ago but has never subsequently enforced against, will do very well...

Adam Beamish ● 2554d

This morning I noticed that a temporary site office and some equipment is being moved onto the site. One of the workmen told me that they are about to begin work on the tower.I guess that local residents will be pleased (once the construction noise and dust has gone) while the wee cafe on the junction of Layton Road and Brook Lane North will be rubbing its hands at the thought of selling many bacon sandwiches and cups of tea to the workers.I understand that there will be no residential units in this development. The only flats will be on Hyundai cars rolling up to have their punctures repaired.

Jim Storrar ● 2554d

Many thanks for the information Guy. It will be refreshing not to have to wake up every morning to see the latest ad for iPhoneX.It is not easy to track the planning history of this site but, as far as I can establish, the extant planning permission involves the following: The demolition of the existing west podium (the lumpy concrete bits) and the erection of a four-storey podium which would wrap around the north, east and west elevations of the tower. The existing tower would be refurbished and re-clad to provide a new car showroom for Hyundai. A new vehicle access ramp would provide access from Brook Lane North to the ground, first, second, third and fourth floor levels. A total of 8,885m² of floorspace would be created including a new car showroom with facilities including MOT testing, repair and servicing. The building would be laid out as follows:Basement – staff and customer car parkingGround floor – reception, workshop and delivery entrances1st and 2nd floors– car displays3rd floor level – meeting rooms and offices4th floor level – rooftop car display area5th - 8th floors – car displays9th floor– café (accessible to the public)10th floor – “brand experience” and executive showroomAn estimated total of 80 full time and 20 part time jobs would be generated.We can be thankful that Hyundai’s European manufacturing operations are in Russia and in the Czech Republic. There are no Hyundai factories in the UK to be closed as part of the Brexit dividend.

Jim Storrar ● 2608d

Yep, I know the type of money advertisement displays generate and often the income from those displays essentially funds the development of the site.I must admit over the years I've become largely indifferent to such displays, whether as Guy says the disincentive to develop has gone remains to be seen.

Adam Beamish ● 2608d

JimAs I understand it the Planning Inspector (finally) agreed with Hounslow that the days of treating the tower as a large advertising hoarding must end - ie, the appeal made by the landowners was rejected.The large advert generated a lot of rent (rumour has it that it was more than the site is worth as an actual building) so if this is no longer available the disincentive to develop has gone. There is a lot of activity on the planning portal related to the Hyundai showroom development and rumour has it that they will start in the autumn.Here's hoping.

Guy Lambert ● 2608d

I noticed the other day that a large banner has appeared on the eastern elevation of the tower. The banner reads "Hyundai 2020". I'm not the most observant of people so perhaps the banner has been there for some time.Does anyone know if this indicates that something is about to happen on the site or perhaps it is just an affirmation of Hyundai's original intentions?It would be so good to see something, or almost anything, happening on this site not least for the sake of those who live in the immediate vicinity.

Jim Storrar ● 2608d

I have been completely confused by all this. This is from a planning officer: "Starting from the beginning, back in 2007 The Planning Inspectorate granted permission on appeal for the ‘shroud’ advert that remains to this day. This permission has been renewed on a near annual basis since then, until late 2016 when we granted permission for 8 months only until Aug 2017.Following which, they sought a further 8 months until now, however we refused this back in July, as we were concerned about the impact on the new block of flats on the former New England site. This is the present appeal - PINS [the Planning Inspectorate] have such a backlog of appeals it is taking around about 7/8 months to initially process appeals, hence why all has been silent for so long. The Inquiry back in November was relating to a digital display associated with the Hyundai development. In early 2016 the car garage was approved but the screen was refused, and the latter was initially dismissed on appeal, but the developer took PINS to the High Court and the dismissal was quashed. So in November we had the rehearing of this appeal by means of Public Inquiry. This was subsequently allowed by the Inspector -  but can only realistically be implemented with the wider Hyundai development.The current appeal relating to the shroud is under Planning ref: 00505/Z/AD45 and the Hyundai digital screen that was allowed following the Inquiry in November is under 00505/Z/AD41"I had to read that several times to make sense of it.We are constantly harassing the landowner to make the site secure and they did what I thought was a more thorough job a couple of months ago after the high winds brought some of the hoardings down. Sounds like I need to harass them again :( In effect, they can now build the Hyundai showroom together with its massive ad and frankly I wish they'd get on with it but there's nothing practical that a council can do to make people proceed with development.

Guy Lambert ● 2695d

Has anyone any updates on this site? This building isn't just an ugly site, but is had become a gathering place for youth. Climbing up the building, smashing windows, throwing things from the top of the building. Last year I recognized the school unifomrs and informed the schools and police. Today I was sent again pictures of youths entering and climbing up. I am hoping they wont be able to win the appeal for putting up the advertisment up again. If they do that means 8 months again were nothing will be done with that building.

Marija Kosanovic ● 2695d

I hope you do get a good and thorough response.It is tremendously difficult to report an issue to the HSE but the indifference at the environmental / building control was none to great either.

Raymond Havelock ● 3118d

I have raised a query with LBH - will let you know as and when I hear something.

Guy Lambert ● 3119d

Raymond - many thanks for that information. My family lives in Avenue Road but all in Brentford should have an interest in this issue. We have recently lost a close friend (an electrical installer) to asbestos-related mesothelioma so this is a matter that is close to our thoughts.I'm not suggesting that we should be overly worried, let alone panicky. However it is remarkable that this matter was investigated but that no results from the analysis of samples have been made available. Would it be worth raising another query with the HSE and with Environmental Health services at Hounslow?We don't remember seeing sprinklings of white dust but it is certainly true that a mixture of Saharan sand and dust frequently falls with the rain when certain atmospheric conditions prevail.

Jim Storrar ● 3119d

One of my colleagues contacted the HSE when we found samples of suspect asbestos content dust during the demolition as afar away as Avenue Road and Whitestile road.The HSE were not terribly interested and simply referred to Hounslow Environmental services.  Very little happened and given that the dusting down of the huge mound of crushed concrete on site was with just one man and one hose pipe and remained as such indicates that very little was followed up if at all.Too late now anyone here in 2013 may have been contaminated.I really hope that this was investigated but am perturbed that no report has ever been circulated either confirming or negating the presence of asbestos in the dust.Is this why the work on the tower and it's no longer required attachments stopped?

Raymond Havelock ● 3119d

Thanks Guy

Alex Shpinkov ● 3119d

Thanks Guy. It is very helpful to know what is happening or not happening.This report to Hounslow Planning Committee dated 16 April 2016 provides a useful summary:https://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/documents/s124697/Hyundai%20PC%20report.pdfI imagine that those living adjacent to, and near to, the tower will be particularly relieved when the site is refurbished. However the problems of dust, noise and general inconvenience during the work will not be enjoyed.I can have no idea if the building contains significant amounts of asbestos but it seems likely given the date of its construction. I imagine that the current owners will have made detailed surveys. Any asbestos issues are not a planning consideration but fall within the remit of guidance issued by the Health and Safety Executive.As a matter of interest Alfa Laval were themselves involved in the manufacture of products containing asbestos. I read that in 2009 Alfa Lava Inc. was cited in the USA as a co-defendant in 444 asbestos lawsuits with a combined total of 564 plaintiffs.

Jim Storrar ● 3119d

From LBH head of planning, back in November: "The corner at the junction of Ealing Road and Great West Road has planning permission for an office building, but I am not aware of any imminent plans to build this."

Guy Lambert ● 3119d

Somewhat related question – does anyone know what’s going to happen to the little fenced area on the corner of GWR/Ealing road – to the East of the newly built Premier Inn?

Alex Shpinkov ● 3120d

It remains unconfirmed that the tower is also constructed with Asbestos content concrete. Quite common at the time of it's construction and quite harmless if undisturbed.But it has lain derelict for too long.

Raymond Havelock ● 3120d

Topically enough, I understand there are discussions about planning matters between council officers and those who propose a car showroom, though I have heard no update for several weeks.

Guy Lambert ● 3120d

Last I heard (BCC meeting last year?) was that the car showroom in the tower was still planned. No idea of timescale.....

Iain Muir ● 3121d