Forum Topic

Historical conservation within the Planning process.

Is there a section of the Council responsible for historical conservation within the planning process?Adini on the Great West Road at Gillette Corner is seeking to develop a part of its site - and the property is edged by a very old wall which would need preserving as a part of the development, so that large lorries do not undermine the foundations for example.  There appears to be no mention of the wall in the report advising the Councillors (bit like the description of the sports ground on Wood Lane where they omitted to tell Councillors it was a part of an old estate!).  Should we take it for granted that measures have been taken to instruct the developers to take great care?  Who is responsible maintenance of the wall?  Does it have a preservation order on it – should it have a preservation order on it?Part of it can be seen at the end of Northumberland Avenue, and it extends along the back of Warkworth gardens up to the Great West Road.  The area was owned by  The Duke of Northumberland and was a part of his estate, so is possibly very old.Should there be a 'historical' reference section at the end of the planning application along with an 'environmental impact' box, too?

Sarah Felstead ● 7302d13 Comments

Sarah,As part of the statutory consultation procedure, the Case Officer is required to consult those bodies with conservation and heritage responsibilities.  English Heritage is the most likely of these to be consulted externally. Whether EH is will depend on the kind of protection afforded to the building and grounds. I do not know if the site has any kind of status.Internally, the Council does have a very small conservation team who will be consulted I should think.Unless the wall is listed (or forms part of the setting of a listed building) and/or is within the context of a conservation area there is no necessity for the developer to retain the wall.  I suspect that for safety and prgamatic reason the HSE would have something to say on the issue.Responsibility for the maintenance of the wall will be with the landowner.  It will not be with the Council.The planning application will deal only with the nature of the application roughly based on the standard form being developed by the government.  If the building is listed there will be a separate Listed Building Consent form.  If it forms part of a Conservation Area another form is required.  I would suspect that the nature of the application falls well short of triggering any EIA screening by the Council.  The EIA Regulations are available at the ODPM website and would take a serious amount of bandwidth to explain here. Subject to confirmation by the screening that submission of an EIA was required, it would seek a scoping opinion on the details to be examined in the Env. Statement.Please note that you are entitled to inspect all responses by statutory consultative bodies on the application at Lampton Road.RegardsConal

Conal Stewart ● 7294d

The planning dept say that as there is no mention of the wall in the planning aplication - it isn't a part of the application so should be safe.Oh, yeah?

Sarah Felstead ● 7294d

Thank you James.  I need to borrow your magnifying monocle for that print!  Very interesting, and the wall may be several hundred years old then?Aside from the historical interest, if the wall goes, even in part, surely the noise from The Great West Road right across that end of the Northumberland Estate, would increase considerably?

Sarah Felstead ● 7298d

http://www.ealing-web.com/ealing_c1890.htmSarah..click on the above link..you will have seen this map before...from a Jl posting on another thread.  There was no Spur Road...but you can seen all of Sion Lane..and Quaker Lane....and the cluster of buildings (farm?)amongst will surely be your wall.More to follow... Why doesn't Brentford or Hounslow Libraries contribute to these threads :0(

Jim Lawes ● 7298d

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/walk/goa57/old/hist/There lots to read here...and its seems that the wall you refer to would have been part of one of the farms littered from the River, up Park road, Syon Lane to Wyke Green.Ok?

Jim Lawes ● 7299d

I presume that if the wall isn't in the planning consent the owner can do what he/she likes with it. He can be as responsible as he likes but if the wall isn't mentioned in the comsent it can go.

Neil Chippendale ● 7299d

I don't know if all the replies are shown on the thread - there are 11 and only 6 on the forum heading list.Corinna was very explicit, the owner of the land which they wish to improve is considered very responsible.  My concern is that building beside a wall such us this goes beyond being responsible - they should as a part of the planning be given strict guidelines about the wall so that no 'whoops, sorry' occurs.There is nothing in the application about the wall...so does that mean no one has been allocated responsibility?

Sarah Felstead ● 7300d

Fight goes on to save St George's ChurchDevelopers Barratt accused of being 'grave robbers'Grant joy for steam museumGriffin Park centenary celebrated at Gunnerbury Park MuseumAdult Education classes to start at City Learning CentreMusical Museum website Campaigners fighting to save St George's Church, until recently the home of the Musical Museum, are appealing for help in their fight against Barratt Homes' plans for the site.Developers Barratt submitted a planning application to demolish St George's Church and replace it with 19 apartments, in keeping with the new Capital West development that now surrounds the church. This application was refused by the Hounslow Council Sustainable Development Committee (SDC) but Barratt have appealed to the Planning Inspectorate against that decision. Many local individuals and groups protested successfully to convince the SDC Brentford does not need to demolish it's heritage to satisfy the desires of the developers. "Developers have ample opportunity to construct literally thousands of apartments within two miles of St George's Church. But these large sites are not enough for the profit margins of the developers, no. There wasn't even a plan for suitable re-use of St George's Church - the planning application only considered demolition - obviously more profitable to demolish than to re-use" one of the campaign team told us."No they will put profit before the remains of the 2299 deceased buried in the church grounds which was planned to be an underground car park, and before the Unitary Development Plan (UDP) along with other planning statements listing St George's Church as a Landmark building. Then they will take the Council to task when they don't get their way. If the Council can't protect the heritage of Brentford then who can?" Any additional information you feel could help to save the church quoting 00607/367-368/P10 to arrive by 19 April 2005 to: Rachel Owen The Planning Inspectorate Room 3/14 Eagle Wing Temple Quay House 2 The Square Temple Quay Bristol BS1 6PN

Neil Chippendale ● 7300d

The conservation post at LBH is funded by Central Govt. I really dont think it has much teeth as heritage is a central govt issue, ie the listing of buildings is a D of E issue.What can the Council do to prevent buidings being pulled in so called conservation areas? Not a lot I think.Regards St Georges chuech yes the developers have appealed.

Neil Chippendale ● 7300d

Jim and Sarah,    You guys are wonderful! Just keep on fighting the good fight!  I'm glad that some people are willing to fight for the old buildings.  What ever happened about St. George's Church? Last news that I read was that the developer was going to fight the decision to save it.

Doris M. Lediard ● 7300d

Sarah,To help you with your WALL enquiry, you may wish to consult the local OS map for Isleworth 1894..produced by Alan Godfrey.I recently bought the Osterley and Hanwell ones from the Osterley Library..but not the Isleworth one.I'll keep my eyes open for one too. I plan to go to Brentford Library tomorrowm so maybe they'll be one there.

Jim Lawes ● 7301d

Well I never did ... I had a message from the server saying time out ... then three postings! ...

Sarah Felstead ● 7301d

Had a speedy reply from Corinna with the contact number of the officer who is involved with making sure the wall stays intact.  I was just very concerned that it would take one lorry to back into it, if there aren't protective barriers against it, and it would be one big whoops!I re-read the agenda placed before the planning committee and there definitely is no mention of this wall.There is at least one large tree which I think is within their grounds, which might be damaged, too.I remember the original application which placed restrictions on the use of the car park, and the inclusion of barriers.  I also remember a Cllr at that same planning meeting, floating the idea that the wall should be knocked down, because it was old....! There was an article in the paper a few years ago asking if anyone knew the history of the wall.  I don't know if they established anything about it.If anyone else wants to ring the officer, her details are Sonia Heenan on 0208 583 4937.  She is available on Tuesday.

Sarah Felstead ● 7301d

Had a speedy reply from Corinna with the contact number of the officer who is involved with making sure the wall stays intact.  I was just very concerned that it would take one lorry to back into it, if there aren't protective barriers against it, and it would be one big whoops!I re-read the agenda placed before the planning committee and there definitely is no mention of this wall.There is at least one large tree which I think is within their grounds, which might be damaged, too.I remember the original application which placed restrictions on the use of the car park, and the inclusion of barriers.  I also remember a Cllr at that same planning meeting, floating the idea that the wall should be knocked down, because it was old....! There was an article in the paper a few years ago asking if anyone knew the history of the wall.  I don't know if they established anything about it.If anyone else wants to ring the officer, her details are Sonia Heenan on 0208 583 4937.  She is available on Tuesday.

Sarah Felstead ● 7301d

Had a speedy reply from Corinna with the contact number of the officer who is involved with making sure the wall stays intact.  I was just very concerned that it would take one lorry to back into it, if there aren't protective barriers against it, and it would be one big whoops!I re-read the agenda placed before the planning committee and there definitely is no mention of this wall.There is at least one large tree which I think is within their grounds, which might be damaged, too.I remember the original application which placed restrictions on the use of the car park, and the inclusion of barriers.  I also remember a Cllr at that same planning meeting, floating the idea that the wall should be knocked down, because it was old....! There was an article in the paper a few years ago asking if anyone knew the history of the wall.  I don't know if they established anything about it.If anyone else wants to ring the officer, her details are Sonia Heenan on 0208 583 4937.  She is available on Tuesday.

Sarah Felstead ● 7301d

The council should have within the Planning Dept. a conservation officer, who should be able to advise you, try ringing them or e-mail Corinna Smart.

Vanessa Smith ● 7302d

Well mentioned Sarah...and please don't give up on this issue pleeessseee!Your Topic has started on the day that a bungalow has been demolished in St Mary's Crescent..near the corner with Thornbury Road..behind the dentists place.... or what used to be Barclays Bank Osterley before Bank Robbers and other scum frightened the staff away.I cursed when I saw the demolished bungalow tonight...as it lies on the cusp of the OSTERLEY PARK CONSERVATION border line...indeed its debatable if its in or out.But big dosh in the this area seems to sway some official opinions as the bulbous and inappropriate developments along Jersey Road have proved. Oh, to have the time and the ability to challenge these horrid people. I've lived in the Road  for over 30 years and have watched friends and neighbours give up and move out!!!You mentioned WALLS....one of several in the area that are over 150 years old and more.In begone times... before the Great West Road was built in 1918-1925.... the area we call Gillette Corner was called Sion Hill at the top of Syon Lane. Before the factories and the road were built there would have been glorious uninterupted distant views towards London (stand on the island in the middle of the Gillette Junction and you will see what I mean.Up Syon Lane was Wyke House (including asylum facilities)...and further on the Farm at Wyke Green with existing old walls (now part of Seccombes the Builders Merchants).The wall you refer too..as you say has some heritage value....don't let the blighters get away with it. Once its gone its gone.Your Councillor should be able to help..as he/she would have access to the Civic Centre expert who needs consulting.Good Luck....

Jim Lawes ● 7302d