Forum Topic

Cycling  highway expansion

HelloI love being active,practice sports be green etc..(but I completely oppose with this project.The fact is that in London, people don't commute to their office like in Amsterdam or Copenaghen where they use City Bike. In London they use RACE Bike. I don't want to see Brentford and ChiswickHigh Street became like the daily race stage from Ballham through Totting, Clapham to London.Bridge or the Putney-Barnes (if you have a chance go in the morning or late afternoon)It looks a bad copy of the Tour the FranceThey go.faster than cars and nobody check their speedThey are super aggressive towards pedestrian and car drivers.(I experience a lot shouting towards pedestrian when they were crossing the road and most of them dont respect the.red light and they cycle wearing the headphone)I would like to enjoy walking in chiswick high street  and not be surraended by alpha people who train for their thriatlon because that what will happen if you built this highway. They use for trainig purpose for their corporate challenge or because they have their middle age crise.It is like i want to drive a F1 race car on the motorway.I think it is time to reconsider the rights of us pedestrian and drivers too and have a proper discussion how to people should cycle in the city. (and i don't want to start talking about running on the high streets also) ThanksExcuse for my typo but message sent from mobile

Domenico Urzi ● 2884d18 Comments

The best bit about a bike is that it is a go anywhere machine.That is if you are fit enough and a good rider.You need to be reasonably fit and agile to ride any sort of distance.Have good vision and spacial awareness and good road sense and understanding of road use by other vehicles.You are balancing and vulnerable to potholes, leaves, wet slippery surfaces.A lot of these things are learned one way or the other as a child messing about with bikes off road, in the park on dirt tracks in the mud and puddles.The sensibility is seriously lacking. The Police do not go into schools and teach road safety or cycling proficiency. Not have they for over a generation.  Nor do schools require pupils to have passed a Cycling Proficiency test before being allowed to cycle to school.Yet years ago when cycling was also common place and Traffic was still heavy with trucks with very few aids to visibility, Sensibility prevailed.The LCC and GLC insisted in all LCC and ILEA schools that pupils had to carry a Cyclists licence. Issued by the ILEA or LCC on passing the Cycling proficiency test.  Apart from it being as good as getting Medal when 11 or 12 years of age. It was considered an achievement.Then cycles had lights Mudguards and bells and you would get your name taken by the Police if you were on the road without.Richmond park has become a hell for walkers and road users by legions of cyclists who see it as a race track.In fact, more cyclists are caught speeding in excess of 20mph than cars and motor cycles.  But the lack of rod etiquette, riding 3 and 4 abreast, overtaking cars from both sides, Ignoring road markings has become really bad there and unenforceable.But it is triicky. The dedicated cycle path in Richmond Park is very hazardous and really only for adept all terrain riders. Again it is really only for the fittest.There is no smooth surface for lightweight cycles - apart from the road or some sections of footpaths.  Many cyclists, especially children use the footpaths , but it has become so crowded it is now really unpleasant and downright dangerous for older people simply trying to have a peaceful walk.I think it's time they had a separate smooth route in a one direction circuit parallel to the all terrain route. Keeping cyclists well away from pedestrians of all sorts and motorised vehicles.But as for Cycle Highways? Surely the local go anywhere cyclists ought to be a priority and all the back routes made free of potholes and properly lit rather than creating a race track for a few.

Raymond Havelock ● 2831d

It is interesting that ‘Friends of Richmond Park’ , who have always tried to make the Park a better place for ALL users, seem to be losing patience with the arrogance of cyclists riding dangerously. They also complain about cyclists riding two  and three abreast, which makes overtaking difficult.Spend ten minutes by one of the Park’s roads on a Saturday morning and you will see that all these complaints are justified.  You will experience the intimidation  as a driver with cyclists crowding you on all sides; if you make a mistake you might kill someone. It is quite  ridiculous that cyclists refuse to use the cycle paths across London and in our Parks.Expanding a Cycling highway that isn't used is a total waste of money. Ridiculous! 

Steve Taylor ● 2831d

The west bound cycle path on the A4 from  Osterley to MacDonalds at the A30 junction is a total waste of money. I hardly ever see a cyclist use it. They prefer to zig zag across the 3 lanes of the A4 and dice with death.

Steve Taylor ● 2832d

https://vimeo.com/232783649In other places people other than just the speeding cyclists find cycles a good mode of transport and cycling lanes important.https://vimeo.com/232783649

Philippa Bond ● 2832d

I hope that there will be improvements to the cycle lanes wherever they are so that cyclists do not feel that they have to cycle on the pavements to keep safe.  People need to be able to walk safely on the pavements!https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20105/road_safety/1419/cycle_training_for_adults_and_children

Philippa Bond ● 2833d

It looks like I was not the only one that did not like having the daily Tour de France in West Londonhttp://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=info&page=tflconsultation004.htm

Domenico Urzi ● 2833d

You're missing out.  It's a lovely route and I regularly walk and run there.  The few cyclists I pass along the way are friendly and polite.

Paul Scullion ● 2853d

A very balanced view. I totally agree about Amsterdam. I had a mountain bike when they first came out. I used it along the canal at a leisurely pace in comfort. The Thames towpath is now like a race track. I dont walk Kew to Richmond any more.

Nicholas Beard ● 2853d

Wow - this thread scores highly on 'Superhighway Bingo'. All the myths, all the cliches, all the misapprehensions...(to all above, not just the post above)My biggest bugbear is the attempt to brand all 'cyclists' as some kind of malicious, organised group.Your uncle probably rides a bike. Your son probably rides a bike. Your grandmother almost certainly did.A 'cyclist' is just a regular human who has chosen to cycle to work, the post office, to the pub. They have the right to do that safely. Until other road users allow that to happen, protected cycle lanes will allow your uncle, son and grandmother to get there safely.I hope most will agree that the roads in & out of Brentford are narrow, and some cars drive far too fast & far too close. Dedicated cycle routes won't get rid ofthose idiots, but they might avoid a few deaths.The level of aggression from drivers I see - towards cyclists, other drivers, even pedestrians - suggests that cyclist aren't the problem.Yes, some cyclists chose the pavement - and whilst I don't, I don't blame them. Cycling through a group of people is bonkers, but sadly some cyclists would rather do that than face the idiots on the road.I don't see road users as collective groups, I see them as individuals. I wish everyone else would do the same.When we have the bike lanes, those individuals will be a much bigger, proportional cross section of residents. And when your grandmother can cycle to the library like she used to do forty years ago, that will be a victory for everyone.

Steve Allen ● 2854d

I agree with you on some points Alex - whilst the Highway Code does state that cyclists scan ride 2 abreast (not on narrow or busy roads) it's something I've never done and nor do I think it should be permitted.And I do see sports cyclists using the pavement for afew seconds to get around a red light, but (a) I see that more at junctions on cycle superhighways than on roads without cycle lanes/superhighways, and (b) I witness more casual cyclists doing that than sports cyclists.I also totally disagree with you about any cyclists using the pavement, either it's a free for all or it's a complete no-no, and for me it has to be the latter, otherwise there's always the argument of "well, he's riding on the pavement" and parents with children who might not be in full control of their bikes are as much of a danger to pedestrians, dog walkers (and to themselves) as anyone else.As for road rage, from what I see the aggression nearly always comes from car drivers.  Take my recent example.  Perfectly lawfully cycling on the A4 carriageway on a wet day, not interfering or interacting with anyone.  Not using the cycle lane for the reasons I've already explained.  Traffic was light, and suddenly I'm passed by a small van repeatedly beeping his horn.  I don't react (at the time didn't even think he was beeping at me) and then suddenly (remember traffic is light) he jams on his brakes and comes to a complete stop, forcing me to jam on my brakes and use all of my abilities to no go into the back of him.Despite the fact I was by this stage pretty shocked, I then moved alongside the passenger window and politely asked what he was up to, no swearing, no aggression, nothing. Cue a flurry of 4 letter abuse from the driver, the only point being made was that there was a cycle lane next to the road.  To which I say "yes, I understand, but I am perfectly entitled to ride on the carriageway, the road isn't busy, we don't need to be engaging with one another".The guy was clearly even more incensed that I wasn't remotely interested in any kind of confrontation, wasn't getting wound up or aggressive, and having threatened to "get out and sort me out" to which I said "now you're getting really silly, just drive off", he eventually did exactly that, but not before swearing at me some more and rather bizarrely calling me a "bitch".The whole interaction was completely unnecessary.  Had the road been busy, he might have had a point (even though I could have been on the carriageway regardless), but it was very quiet, reflected by how he was able to jam on the brakes and stop and engage in a dialogue with me.  And all he achieved was to delay his journey and get more wound up.Now much as I don't take any c**p and am a straight talking northerner, I've also got considerable professional experience and training of handling confrontational situations and dealing with 'difficult' people.But for those without that experience and training, faced with what I faced, there would be many people who'd have ended up in a physical confrontation.And that's why I actually agree with you about there being more cases of road rage between sports cyclists and drivers - we all see 'fired up' drivers on the roads everyday, beeping their horns etc. at frustrating at the ever increasing volumes of traffic/delays, and when I'm driving I share that same frustration.However, unlike me, such drivers are far likely to seek conflict with a sports cyclist than they are an old dear riding her boris bike or a mother riding with children - simple human nature about macho pride and all that nonsense.  And if said sports cyclist, whilst riding perfectly legally, has got the adrenaline flowing, then they're more likely to respond to that provocation resulting in your road rage confrontation, all of which is completely unnecessary.

Adam Beamish ● 2881d

"From my observations as a car driver, pedestrian and cyclist, the majority of idiot cyclists are usually casually dressed, riding mountain bikes, commuter bikes or Boris bikes, racing in ages from 5 to 80, using the pavement and jumping red lights, and either wearing headphones or on their phones."Sorry Adam, from my experience (also as driver and cyclist) the most problems are caused by those riding sports bikes and wearing lycra. I’m sure there are a lot of really considerate riders – like, I’m sure, yourself. But it seems that a lot of the lycra brigade just ignore other road users - ride close to the centre of the carriageway, sometimes even next to each other. Don't let cars pass when they could move a bit to the left, jump red lights, speed between pavement and cars before traffic lights (that’s the most unsafe thing you can do!)... They need to realise that they are not part of Tour-de-France, they are just road users and they need to be considerate to others. Our roads are to safely get from A to B rather than to get from A to B as fast as possible. In fact one of the differences between say cycling/driving in Paris or Amsterdam and London is that in Paris and Amsterdam the majority of cyclists are regular road users, on city bikes, velibs and they don’t turn streets of the city into a Tour-de-France stage. By the way, I believe most cases of road rage between cyclists and drivers involve cyclists on sports bikes in lycra (((.As for riding on the pavement... Of course sports style cycling, trying to go fast on the pavement is unacceptable. However if people cycle slowly - at around the speed of pedestrians, and the pavement is not too busy - I don't see a problem with that. Again, this de-facto the case in Paris and Amsterdam. And – yes, I know, it is illegal.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2882d

I want to see cycling become a normal respected form of transport on all urban routes and safe infrastructure that serves wobblers like me (who are usually not going very far, and usually not in a hurry) as well as commuters who may be going several miles into the city centre. No cycle superhighway begins to threaten or inconvenience pedestrians as much as a busy road. The more people who cycle the less who will drive and we need to create that virtuous circle, in my opinion. For that reason I am much in favour of CS9 (and the also controversial Boston Manor Road cycle track) and I'd like to see further cycle/pedestrian friendly changes - how about Hollandisation of Brentford High Street between say Half Acre and Brentford Bridge, for example?You make a good point about the A4 cycle lane, however. Some of it in Brentford has recently been resurfaced in fact and I am in a repeated battle with H Highways about sweeping on the A4, including the cycleways which is successful on occasion!Beyond that there are a couple of issues, I think: one is the places where it just discontinues (EG Ealing Rd, Syon Lane, approach to Chiswick roundabout). It will require some investment but that would be resolved with a bit of will from TfL and some money. Another similar issue is where they have plonked a bus stop or bus stop sign in a place where it interferes with the cycle path, again fairly easily solved.The other issue - the lack of protection or priority for cyclists at junctions and entrances - is, I suspect, trickier and likely needs a change in law and a change in driving culture, though some alternative road markings would be a start.I'll see about a serious campaign on this.

Guy Lambert ● 2883d

I have always cycled, since passing my Cycling Proficiency test at school whereafter you were allowed to cycle to school.But I am now reluctantly cycling less and less. The realities of age are kicking in and these well exercised joints are wearing out. Ironically, my doctor has told me to reign in exercise and look for more gentle exercise otherwise risk a lot of problems with back, hip, knee and ankle joints. This was possibly caused by playing sports and uphill cycling and generally demanding a bit too much from my body for a bit too long.So it's a bit sad when, having spent 40 years cycling round the district battling with bad road surfaces, heavy trucks and spray and muck and all the other hazards, things start to get done just as I have to retreat from cycling. Although an electric bike is appealing, where will we keep them? No space in these little terraced houses.But Guy, you do make me smile. I know you cycle a fair bit and certainly buck the age thing. Hat's off to you on that.But you are also a councillor. You can make a difference. You might be heard when the rest of us are ignored.You mention the A4 Cycle way. I can tell you that I was writing to the GLC before Horace Cutler and Ken Livingstone - to Yvonne Sieve I think, about the terrible state of the cycleway, both in terms of safe usage and cleanliness.I was still at school then and there were a lot of road calamities, mostly from potholes in the wet. My old school - Gunnersbury, wrote several times to Barney Heyhoe MP, and Hounslow Council about the dangers and poor condition of the Cycle way from Heston to Brentford. We sent a petition with 210 signatures - Dismissed because we were  mostly under 18. ! Then it was sent again with parents signatures and that was 400 plus. Still nothing.Probably the first letters I ever wrote to any sort of authority.I've written to GLC, Council, GLA, DoT, Highways Agency, RoSPA, Cycling Peer and Acton MP George Young and various local Councillors about the state of it and what should and could be done.I can count on about 3 replies in all that time. George Young being the only one who replied twice and pushed it a bit.40 years later and still nothing has changed.So you are an elected Councillor .... a  Cycling Councillor.Can you not campaign and lobby to get this sorted out?You are obviously aware of the state of it and it's shortcomings. It has not been touched for decades and certainly not enhanced for 50 years.Cycling repeater signals are now in use. Sensors, alerts proper markings are all basics now for some routes, but nothing on the A4. Not even a regular sweep or enforcement of badly parked cars.It has to be 100% better than what is being proposed and it is already there. The space is there. It will not impact anywhere near what is being proposed.But it does need updating,  proper signalling, a sensible placing of signage, and priority alterations and above all, proper cleaning.The cycle superhighways in Town have become racetracks and are hellish for pedestrians and have caused endless tailbacks of heavy commercial traffic.Ratcheting up pollution from idling engines.The standing in islands for a bus is both dangerous and gets you soaked from both sides and is lunacy for people with pushchairs children and dogs.If they can find money to carve up a park, and screw up an already congested and polluted area, then surely they can better spend the money on bringing a an existing cycle way up to safe useable standards which cyclists will be happy to use in confidence.I might add that many Belgian and Dutch urban areas do not permit racing cycles, drop handlebars or toe clip pedals on cycle ways in built up areas.Mudguards and bells are mandatory and compliance with traffic signs and signals is also the norm.  Most bikes are sit up an beg as this allows the rider the best vision and spacial awareness.They are now considering a ban on headphones as that has started to impact on their rather good safety records.

Raymond Havelock ● 2883d

I don't think there's a big difference in roads, but there is in attitudes, in infrastructure and, I believe, the law.I regularly cycle from Brentford to Hounslow or Chiswick and if using the A4 (much of the time) I use the cycle lanes. They are not continuous, not always swept, sometimes inhibited by low trees, sometimes unlit and they frequently just peter out (EG at Ealing Road and Syon Lane). In Holland the cyclists would have priority and cars would be expected to give way - not here. Because I'm fairly slow and cautious I don't find the junctions and entrances as much of a problem as Adam but I accept that they are quite dangerous (I rarely stop, nor do I slow down much). I understand that in Holland a car driver in collision with a cyclist is assumed to be in the wrong unless he can convince otherwise.I was very affected by this short video by Chris Boardman.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDLb6biq39AI've always been a petrolhead and I'm not ready to give up my car , but I use it less and less.

Guy Lambert ● 2884d

Don't they have much wider roads?

Philippa Bond ● 2884d

All very reasoned and sensible Alan but I fear you are a minority amongst west London cyclists.  As a driver I give all cyclists a very wide berth and try my best never to cut them up.  Drivers need ears and eyes wide open and constant use of both wing mirrors and rear mirror.  Do you know what the Danes and the Dutch do - Holland certainly has segregated Bike Lanes and think the Danes also.  How do they manage with cars turning across cycle lanes and the other hazards you mention?  Maybe they have similar accident rates as the UK but it would be worth looking at their figures and perhaps learning from their experiences.

Jennifer Selig ● 2884d

Let's not get carried away people - I don't totally disagree with the broad sentiment of either poster, but let's stay rational, it is absurd to suggest banning racing bikes from the public highway.I used to do alot of road racing training and competing, I don't do much now, but I still take my racing bike out, sometimes just to go from A to B, other times for exercise.I hate Richmond Park on a racing bike and in the car, most of the time, for the precise reasons mentioned.  When I've owned mountain bikes I've been round the off-road trail (which isn't actually a dedicated 'proper cycle track' by the way) on many occasions, and it's more enjoyable, but as you say the clue is in the fact it's a trail, i.e. take a racing bike on it and you'll very quickly get a puncture.Not that I want to see it, but I wonder if at some point we'll lose some of the greenery in the park because the powers that be will put a separate cycle only road one side of the current road.But don't put every person who rides a racing bike and wears lycra under the same umbrella.  From my observations as a car driver, pedestrian and cyclist, the majority of idiot cyclists are usually casually dressed, riding mountain bikes, commuter bikes or Boris bikes, racing in ages from 5 to 80, using the pavement and jumping red lights, and either wearing headphones or on their phones.I see far old middle aged people and parents with children riding bikes on the pavement than I ever do racing cyclists wearing lycra.  There's also no 'typical' cyclist I witness riding through red lights, there's never a time when I'm out riding that I don't witness a cyclist ride through a red light (and I always tell them that it gives the cycling community a bad name) but it would be a complete fabrication to suggest that more racing cyclists go through red lights than the casual cyclist, more accurately it would be the other way round.I can only think that people who think racing cyclists welcome cycle lanes and cycle superhighways haven't cycled much on them, so why not try it.  In particular try the one on the A4 from Ealing Road to Syon Lane, then ride on the normal road carriageway (which you can do under Section 63 of the Highway Code).On the cycle lane, you'll find yourself having to slow down and stop everytime you meet a side road or retail park access, and having to take your eyes off the direction of your travel to check that (a) a car isn't turning off the A4, or (b) a car isn't approaching the A4.  Therefore, you're not concentrating on the cycle lane ahead and frequently, because the lane moves away from the road carriageway by several metres, a driver on the A4 turning off it directly across the cycle lane may lose sight of you.  It is inherently dangerous for all road users.  Conversely, if you're on the road carriageway, none of the above happens, and the danger instead comes from bad drivers who aren't driving with due care and attention.Don't get me wrong, cycle lanes and cycle superhighways have their uses, and in some ways I do support them for encouraging more kids to ride to school, for more people to cycle for recreation etc.  But as a racing cyclist user, most of the time I stay away from them, and my biggest nightmare is that at some point it will become mandatory that cyclists can only ride in cycle lanes where they are available - if that happens, then places like Richmond Park will only become more uncomfortable then they already are as racing cyclists wanting to cycle in the capital will feel it's the only place they can train.I'm not remotely anti-car,  anti or pro public transport or pro or anti cyclists.  But as someone who's ridden a bike for both pleasure and competition for 30 years it really annoys me when people try to pigeon bad cyclists, especially when it's directed towards the lycra brigade, instead of being equally directed at the casually dressed riders of all ages who ride on pavements or the parents with kids who do the same - I often think it's because there seems to be some kind on unwritten rule in this country that you can't ever criticise the elderly or children.

Adam Beamish ● 2884d

Richmond Park has the purpose built road circuit for training racing cyclists by the score - clad in Lycra, earphones on, heads down, bums up, they charge round and round exceeding 20mph - perfect for them a nightmare for everyone else, including the wild life!The proper cycle track is ignored - the surface is unsuitable for racing bikes - they need smooth tarmac.  Perhaps the authorities should ban these bikes from public highways and only permit sturdy bikes of a certain size/type.

Jennifer Selig ● 2884d