Forum Topic

Albany Arms & Area

Hi there,If possible I’d like to open up constructive discussion on the area surrounding and including the currently closed pub, The Albany Arms.My other half and I are currently in the process, amongst other interested parties,of applying for the lease on The  Albany Arms……some of you may ask why?!......some may say about time!We have spent many months scouring the internet for info on the general area and have had many visits to Brentford to visit the pub and its surrounds. From our research we are aware of the pubs history and some problems associated with the area that surround it. This forum has also been useful to get some current info from locals.It does sound like there may be some issues involving crime in the area, but it’s very hard and also unfair to judge from an outsider’s point of view, rather than from a current resident’s daily experience.We would love to hear from some lovely Brentford locals and those further afield who have experience of the area, what you think about the pub itself and it reopening in the near future, and what it would mean to the local area?  Good or badOur vision, if we are successful in gaining a lease, is to transform this pub into something Brentford can be proud of.This pub has been vacant too long,been mismanaged repeatedly, and finally needs some love put into it.I am sure you will all agree on this!Any thoughts, feelings, or questions?*Please note: As we are still in the very early stages of the application process and due to confidentiality reasons, there are certain to be some questions that I will be unable to answer on this forum,so apologies in advance.Regards, PetePs. I will update this post in regards to the outcome of our application whether its successful or not.I am sure there are many of you interested in the fate of the pub and who will eventually obtain the lease.

Peter Brew ● 2877d23 Comments

All the best,

Raki Smith ● 2861d

I wish you well,  It would be nice to see the pub revived but not to compete directly with the Griffin as it could stuff both venues if the clientele is diluted.It will be a very tough challenge.  Several landlords and managers in the past have set out with the best of intentions and been thwarted with a persistent clientele who have dragged it down and scared off the punters. The incidents have not helped.Some landlords just don't get why people avoid otherwise nice pubs, but sometimes there is a need for a pub that accommodates drinkers who get a bit loud and larey. It's part of society. It's when a nice quite drink and a bite don't mesh with 9 pints and a shouty bouty.  Chances are Mr Shouty Louty has spent more money and more often.  Business pressures often mean that Mr Shouty Louty has to be tolerated.

Raymond Havelock ● 2862d

As far as opening hours Paul, it would depend on the permitted  hours held within the current Premises Licence for the pub, we would have to work within these. We have always set reasonable opening hours where it was appropriate for the area and fitting with nearby competition. I would envisage our opening hours to be as follows if our licence permits.Mon-Thur 12pm-11pmFri 12pm-11.30pmSat 9.30am* - 11.30pmSun 12noon-10.30pm*the reason for early opening on sat is we would like to be available to do breakfast/brunch 9.30-12noonThe above hours for us seem reasonable for both customers and our staff.Any increases made to the above hours would be evaluated both from our perspective and from a residents perspective.We certainly want to work closely with residents to ensure we are all happy.The current licensing hours permitted as per the property listing are as followsMon-Thur 11am-11pmFri-Sat 11am-11.30pmSun 12n-11pm In reference to your fear Paul that we would leave the pub in unscrupulous hands if we found the pub unprofitable.All i can say again is that we would be committed long term if we were to granted this pub.We know this pub is going to be a difficult site, and it might take some time for it to gain its popularity.We hope though that the people of Brentford notice what we are doing, like what they see, and support us. Our focus though will not just be trying to attract a solid local trade but aim for it to be a destination pub much like the previous pubs we have had a hand in.I can understand the fear that residents have in regards to the fate of The Albany Arms, and what has come before. Theres no denying the pub was a disgrace for a number of years and possibly also when the general area had higher levels of crime based activity than is now. My main point would be that it is irrelevant what problems may or may not currently befall the area, it is  up to the landlord who they allow in their pub and what direction they want the pub to go in.

Peter Brew ● 2863d

I would definitely agree with you that the Griffin is a great pub, very friendly with great food  too, I still haven't seen a grifin yet though!

Barbara Dudley ● 2863d

I'm encouraged by Peter Brew's comments, commitment and consideration to the local residents. I also applaud him for entering this forum to introduce himself and stating his intentions. I understand that much is still confidential, and I would be curious to know what the licensing hours are that he envisages, particularly with any late or extended licensing applications. Nevertheless, by very virtue of his willingness to enter into discussion on this forum is commendable - and that's something that his predecessors never considered. So thank you for that.I'm not a NIMBY person, and I regret the rampant demise of pubs over recent years. I would be very happy to see the Albany Arms restored and become a valuable hub of the community and visitors to Brentford. My only fear is that should Peter invest both in time and money in restoring this pub (particularly the challenge of it's garden, which is currently a jungle harbouring all manner of destructive wildlife and vermin) then after a year or two - having not realised his ambitions or seeing a profit (which I would regret) - he would up sticks and leave the door open for the less scrupulous and opportunist short term managers, who couldn't care less, and we would then enter a new cycle of distress equivalent to those dark periods gone before. I sincerely hope I am wrong - but forgive my negativity. I wish you every success in your application. Better a good pub with a good licensee who can be a valued and respected member of the community than any other possible alternative. Brentford needs people like you in this unique and special pocket of West London - which is slowly losing it's history and identity by a plethora of mediocre and inferior pastiche developments.

Paul Brownlee ● 2871d

I and my OAP pals from Chiswick all LOVE the Griffin and its wonderful food - it is frequented by at least two of us each week at some stage.  It's a proper pub with superb food in very unpretentious surroundings.

Jennifer Selig ● 2872d

Best of luck with the application.  I'm sure all of us welcome investment in the area and wish you every success.

Paul Scullion ● 2872d

Thanks again everyone for the constructive comments regarding the Albany Arms and the general area. From what I gather Brentford certainly has its fair share of problems, but no more than anywhere else. In particular thank you Guy for getting involved in the discussion, it’s certainly a confidence builder knowing there are councillors interested in what is going on, particularly in regards to small business.As I initially stated, as we are still in the early days of the application process, our application for the pub is confidential and our business proposal for the time being is as well. However, without giving too much away but at the same time allay any fears that some of you possibly harbour, what I can say is this…. 1. Forget about the previous 7 landlords-We are so far away from these previous entities in terms of professionalism, moral decency, foresight and ambition you have no need to doubt our intentions or resolve in giving the Albany Arms every chance of success.  2. The pub will be privately run by us. We will be free of all ties with any breweries or pub co’s. This fact alone should please many people who like their pubs “less branded” and more independent.3. Our proposal in regards to what we will be offering in terms of products, and our whole vision of what the pub s going to look and feel like WILL NOT attract any of the undesirables that some of you have mentioned on this forum as being previous customers. 4. My other half and I are very experienced and enjoy turning problem pubs into great pubs. Our vision is clear and we will not be intimidated by any undesirable element in the community attempting to use the pub as a base for their nefarious activities We will be taking many different steps that have worked for us in the past to combat any problems that may arise. One decision already on the list is a no drinking/no smoking policy out the front of the pub at any time. (Obviously football days may be an issue with this and need looking at individually) We also have a “zero tolerance” policy with no exceptions. 5. The football trade does not factor into our plans and although we will welcome trade pickup from home games, we will not be actively promoting to attract this, and will be making sure we do not have any hooligan element gracing our doorstep. Friendly football fans will however be most welcome.6.If we secure the lease on The Albany Arms we are there for the long haul. We are there to  make an impact and become hugely successful in what we do, and in turn be part of the regeneration and success of Brentford as a whole.Claire- Thanks so much for the feedback and sound advice. You certainly run a great pub in The Griffin and we will definitely give you a buzz if we are successful. Have not yet checked the licencing conditions but will be looking at that this week, fingers crossed! Great to hear your comments on the football being a bonus to you.  A pub should never rely on a singular outside entity like a sports ground to rule its profitability. There have been pubs for instance in nearby Twickenham that have suffered over the years by not adapting and only relying on the rugby to make the bulk of their profits. In latter years this wasn’t  a problem, however times and tastes have changed dramatically over the past 10 years and pubs that are struggling need to take a look at themselves and work out what they need to offer  and where they need to make changes in order to attract new custom. You definitely can’t just put a lick of paint in a place and open the doors, it just doesn’t cut it anymore. You are right, all the pubs surrounding the ground CAN survive after the football has moved, and it’s just up to the landlords to facilitate the correct changes in order to survive.Which is exactly what you have done.Paul- thanks very much for the advice and some history on the Albany Arms. There isn’t much I haven’t read on the internet or heard from people in regards to the pub. I hope you don’t choose to oppose any plans for the pub, but I would not blame you given your history with it.. Our decision to apply for the Albany Arms hasn’t come lightly and there has been many hours of debate over whether this could be a “dead horse”-We don’t think it is and hope we get the chance to prove you wrong.

Peter Brew ● 2872d

Inappropriate to comment as a councillor on whether a licence should be granted but I agree generally with Paul's Claire's and Raymond's comments. Special mention for Paul's last sentence: nobody would argue that Albany Road is heaven but it's very far indeed from the vision of Hell that Jacob conjures and Brook Road South and the roads off it are a delight. I wonder why Jacob stays in Brentford. I moved here from Chiswick about 8 years ago and I have no desire to live anywhere else. Nice people, nice pubs (Griffin, Express, Magpie personal favourites but so many good places to choose from) and a growing selection of restaurants - all independent so far bar Macdonalds and Greggs. We just need a more vibrant town centre and better connections to the waterside, and those are coming soon.

Guy Lambert ● 2872d

Nick,You live so close to one of the best pubs in the area.The food at the Griffin's restaurant and it's sunday lunch runs rings round the two pubs you mentioned. Plus it is a proper unpretentious unspoiled pub too, devoid of the marketing influenced and manufactured corporate places that Chiswick Richmond and Ealing are stuffed with. It is used by the whole community and this town has enjoyed a more stable and mixed populous for longer than a great many other districts.It is not Chiswick, Putney or Clapham, it is Brentford.It is what it is and most of us here like it as it is and whilst it can be much better, it's the kind of "Much Better' that developers and their disciples want foisted on the town that is causing so much consternation."The area is nice but surrounded by Mixed groups of people"?That implies a rather condescending attitude. If that's how you feel, why are you living here? What are you bringing to the community you living in?I think if you make the effort, you will find plenty in this town to relish, and that includes the people.

Raymond Havelock ● 2873d

The Griffin is my favourite pub in Brentford - warm, cosy and with a friendly staff. There's also the association with Robert Rankin's Brentford "Trilogy" which must attract his fans to the pub; hoping to see a real griffin perhaps?JL

Jim Linwood ● 2873d

Hello Claire. On the application for the griffin park redevelopment there was a viability study undertaken on the future of the 4 pubs surrounding the stadium. They found only the Griffin had a future post development. The other 3 it was stated would not be able to survive economically.

Jacob James ● 2873d

Hi Peter,I don't know whether or not you would find my input useful or subjective as I and my husband are the tenants at The Griffin. We, like the Albany, are a back street pub that struggles to attract passing business due to our location. We have invested heavily in a restaurant area and new toilets. My husband is a Michelin trained Chef and we offer proper restaurant quality food. We have an extremely good regular trade from locals and are slowly beginning to attract, through word of mouth / Trip Advisor etc, more trade from businesses and hotels. We do not rely on football trade, although it is a bonus (so not sure where 3 out of the 4 pubs not being viable after the football move came from).Nick - I would recommend our Sunday roast if you're looking for somewhere with good food and friendly atmosphere.BUTIt is a difficult trade and despite a number of new build flats, an increase in business from alleged residents is not noticeable. Add to that annual price increases and recent extortionate rates increases it is not the money spinner that people think it can be. This is as a pub that does not suffer in any way from the reputation hanging over The Albany Arms.Brentford has a large proportion of pubs for its size and many of them, some without a poor reputation, are struggling and in honesty I can think of at least 4 that may not survive the decade.  If you go ahead I wish you all the best and pop in if you need anything - we local publicans work together as much as possible and we'll be happy to help. On a side note, I would check any conditions on the premises license before confirming as I think another newly reopened pub was a bit shocked at the conditions applied due to previous incidents and you don't want to be restricted in your plans by previous management decisions.

Claire Peleschka ● 2873d

I would fundamentally oppose any application for a licence to re-open the Albany Arms. As I am cited in this article from the Richmond and Twickenham Times in 2010:http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/5058022._Disgraceful__pub_to_keep_its_doors_open/Any Google search regarding the Albany Arms will throw up other instances.It is now more than 22 years that I have lived close to this pub, and in that time between 1995 up until it finally closed it's doors in 2012 there had been at least seven landlords during those 17 years. That's an average of one every 2 years. Each one may have had good intentions, but all failed and brought the pub down to a level which was a blight. Local residents were in despair, as were the police and the council. The litany of problems is long. Local residents suffered much. Children and their parents walking past from the local school at 15.30 were confronted by anti-social drunks hanging around outside - which became worse after the smoking ban. The noise reached on some nights at midnight and the early hours by successive landlords recorded decibels so extreme that the following day a noise abatement notice was served instigating a £20,000 fine. Upon receipt the then landlord did an overnight flit. That was before the next chap who set up an illegal strip joint - with bouncers outside and blackened windows. One must ask the question why it's reputation was so bad, and why successive landlords had to resort to encouraging such appalling clientèle and behaviour? Since it's closure the demography of Brentford has changed (not necessarily for the better) with rampant new development and new residents and it's possible that a new Albany Arms will be different and cater for them. Yet, it's worth noting the Albany Spice which opened less than two years ago on Albany Parade, shortly afterwards ceased opening at lunchtime between Monday and Thursday because there was insufficient business. They can be credited for affecting the removal to a degree of a hard core bunch of undesirables which would congregate regularly drinking on the public benches. I would worry that the reopening of the Albany Arms will attract those very people or their associates which it's taken so long to remove.Furthermore, the Albany Arms benefited from football fans, and on many occasions was the scene of some very bad related hooliganism. The ground is moving to a site in Lionel Road and work is expected to commence on the stadium next year. This will invariably take away any business from the Albany Arms should it ever re-open.Any new landlord would have a major challenge to restore this pub to successful glory. I would support a visionary who could turn it around to be a respectable and decent establishment - conducive and harmonious within the neighbourhood - but experience suggests otherwise. Incidentally a pre-planning application was made to the council about a year ago to convert it into 6 flats. I don't know what became of that - or whether it is still in progress.One more thing - I do not recognise at all the negative picture that Jacob James has painted. It is offensive, provocative and totally unjustified.

Paul Brownlee ● 2873d

Hello Peter Brew. Yes, I live directly in Albany Road. Actually directly opposite where the acid attack mugging took place earlier this year I mentioned. I work closely with the Safer Neighbourhood Team as a resident and trust me I can imagine what Hackney Central is like as my full time job is based in the criminal justice system. The reason I believe the Albany Arms struggles is because there is very little footfall in front of the pub besides a weak stream of Haverfield Estate residents going to Morrisons. Concerning the crime of the street - it is ingrained - again - the police.co.uk website will show you everything that is reported down here. Want drugs, want to settle a score with a rival? Albany Road is your go-to street. The area starts to get tasty from just after 5pm crime wise - some days there are no incidents - others - you can see the gangs first hand. The drug dealing and roaming alcoholics appear and disappear all day. However - this is just what the area is like and actually not the real problem for a business imo. The real problem with Albany Road is that most the street is rented - mostly to Eastern Europeans and there are a few slum landlords who have filled their properties with bunk-beds - like the beat-up beige building on the corner of Albany Road and Brook Road South. The road seems almost abandoned most the time. North of Albany Road - the area gets a little better. There are many pubs in the area - all fairly empty and dependant on the matchday football trade of the soon to be moving stadium. The council stated that 3 of the 4 pubs surrounding the stadium will not be economically viable once the stadium moves but as another user stated on here - I am amazed many of those pubs stay open anyway as it is - they are just abandoned most the time with just one or two established older drinkers in there. The few wealthy of the area drink in The Weir or in Chiswick (Strand on the Green). Ferry Keys - which is an expensive development you should visit on the river is also abandoned most the time. My advice is this. Visit all the local pubs and see first hand the type of people who live in Brentford. Visit the Griffin (famous), The Beehive, The Royal Horseguards Man - The Princess Royal etc. Whatever anyone tells you on here - it is your money presumably that will be put into this venture and the best way to gauge this strange area is first hand. The area can be quite deceptive. When I first came to area - I saw none of the inherent problems until I actually started living here.

Jacob James ● 2873d

I live on Grosvenor Road around the corner and have lived in Brentford for 4 years now. I am in my early thirties and would love a lovely pub to go to with family and friends. The area is nice but surrounded by mixed groups of people. The Weir is the best pub for my requirements nearby but our favourite is the City Barge in Strand on The Green. This is where we go as our first choice for drink/food and have never had a bad experience. If there was a place like this closer to home we would be there an awful lot!

Nick Fichte ● 2874d

Thanks for the sound advice and comments Martin,much appreciated and I will add those contacts to my list.Regards

Peter Brew ● 2874d

The Royal Oak reopened a couple of months ago after being closed for 2 maybe 3 years.  It's been cleaned out and had a half decent paint job but isn't attracting many customers, each evening I go past and see either none or one customer.  I wish them well but it won't survive with the current level of custom.

Reg Ghosh ● 2874d

Thanks for some insightful comments on the area ladies and gentlemen.Much appreciated.I think you have hit the nail on the head there Martin.Whoever gets the opportunity at The Albany Arms,cannot just set in motion a "run o the mill" pub.It needs to be distinctly different from those around it and more importantly needs someone strong enough to keep the dodge element from even entering the place to start with.Would still like to hear more about the troublesome element in the street,in particular from a direct Albany Road local.Jacob,may I ask if you are local?Do you live on Albany road or it's surround?I'm more of the opinion that turning an old pub into more flats really doesn't  solve any problems and is a shame.And to be honest,I currently live in Hackney Central,you should try parts of that sometime,it may change your opinion on what really constitutes crime ridden or dodgy.We will though be having plenty of visits to Albany Rd in the next few weeks and will try to experience possibly what you are referring to Jacob, it definitely doesn't sound amazing  from what you are portraying.Cheers,and hope there are more locals out there with some more thoughts.

Peter Brew ● 2874d

It is one of the exceptionally rare examples of a pub that would be better off as flats.Albany Road has the highest crime rate in the borough. You can check the police crime maps. It is quite unbelievable. However - spend a day on Albany Road and you will see why. Constant drug dealing - in plain sight, roaming alcoholics carrying cans of extra strength beers from dusk till dawn. There have been acid attacks in the road (this year) - serious assaults (ever year) and there are often groups of gangs on mountain bikes from the Haverfield Estate patrolling the street.

Jacob James ● 2875d

It would be good to see a nice building brought back to life and to become a driver for improving the area. Brentford is undergoing lots of changes at the moment so a reopening of the Albany Arms is an opportunity to be part and integral to that change. The community like the area is mix of the old and new, so a one size fits all approach may not be the right solution, better to create a niche not already occupied by the current offerings. A good example of one that got it right is the recently renovated Express Tavern on Kew Bridge. It attracts all ages including customers from its previous incarnation by offering good ales, good food, a convivial atmosphere and a great outdoor space. It may be worth contacting the Brentford Chamber of Commerce and the Brentford High Street Steering Group to get their views. Good luck with your venture and I hope you become a key member of the community.

Martin Case ● 2875d

If you make a go of it I give you 100% support, but.... Just down the road is the Princess Royal which sits on a main road where as the Albany doesn't . How this place is still open amazes me. 95% of the time no one is in there. Football days yes it's packed that's 1 in 14. All the local shops sell cheap booze The Royal Horseguardsmen and The New Inn are well established. I wish you all the best but not being on a main Rd,  and being closed for some time might mean a long hard slog.

David Squire ● 2876d

Hi I've lived in Brentford for a long time and used to go into the Albany Arms quite a lot. It used to have a nice garden out the back and also served food. It had a bad reputation because there was a stabbing in there and a man died which put a lot of people off of going there. I hope you are successful in acquiring it and hopefully turn it back into what it once was.

Barbara Dudley ● 2876d