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AlanCongratulations on what must be the nearest you have come to giving a straight and sensible answer in what seems like a thousands posts over the past week or so.Of course there is nothing wrong with a broad church.  The ICG, whatever your propaganda might say to the contrary, is the ultimate broad church, embracing not only left-wingers and people from the political centre, but indeed conservatives also.The difference is, of course, that unlike the Labour Party the ICG makes no pretence to ideological unity.  We are united by one common belief, that the wishes of people should prevail over the agendas of political parties.  Other than for that our members are free to hold, and to express, their own views.Therein, Alan, lies the difference.  I could not vote to close a residential care home if I believed that it should be kept open, and knew that by closing it I would be placing people's lives at risk.I could not knock on somebody's door and ask them to vote for a Prime Minister who had taken us into a war I didn't believe in under completely false pretences, resulting in the deaths of over 100,000 innocent people, on top of the 1,000,000 innocent people who had already been killed as a consequence of sanctions, nor for an MP who had gone along with the same as a career move.I could not publish or distribute leaflets about those I considered to be my opponents containing very serious allegations about them which I knew to be completely false.I could not, as many of your friends did in Bethnal Green, campaign for a candidate whom I believed to be wrong on major issues such as the Iraq war against a candidate whom I believed to be largely in the right simply because she was a member of my club and he wasn't.I could not campaign for a candidate who had demonstrated her contempt for her own constituents by taking money out of their pockets for a second home which she does not need, and then simply ignore questions from anybody who expressed their concerns.I could not defend policies which I fundamentally disagreed with, and which I would have condemned vociferously had they been espoused by another party.You are right to say that no political organsiation will exactly fit with the views and aspiration of any individual.  However, that nothwithstanding I still consider it perverse that people such as yourself, who claim to be from the "left", should be so in love with a political party which is now very much on the right of the spectrum and which has pretty much abandoned virtually everything that it once stood for.A political party is not like a football club, which you stick with right or wrong.  When a party which once represented the values which you hold dear ceases to do so, you must choose between values and your party.  You would appear to have chosen your party.You may not have noticed Alan but, like David Giles of the Conservative Party whom I consider to be your mirror image, your views are not taken particularly seriously by many people on these forums these days.  The reason for this is not because your views are not valid, but because they are not objective.  People are just getting the Party Line, chanted idiot-style like a mantra, and they could read all that in your manifesto.When a question is asked with which you feel uncomfortable you ignore it.  When you are in a corner you respond by transposing your own party's shortcomings onto your opponents - accusing the ICG of cronyism, publishing "nasty" leaflets, and so on.  Your brief has even compelled you to make statements which are, as Churchill might have put it, economical with the actualité, such as your claim to have had a contract with Regal Distributuions which I later proved to have been untrue.This is all a shame, because I think you have a lot to offer to the debate and to local politics in general.When I first encountered you Alan I believed that you were a person whom the Labour Party did not deserve.  Sadly some of your more recent behaviour would suggest to me that maybe it does deserve you after all.

Phil Andrews ● 7304d

ConalI would love to think that Hounslow's housing operation was offering a top grade service to its tenants and would have welcomed the Audit Commission's report but for the fact that I know from bitter, first-hand experience that it the Commission has got it so completely and hopelessly wrong.Doubtless Alan will be on here screaming about me "not wanting to accept the truth" or something equally banal, but anybody who has had any experience at all of the way Hounslow Homes operates in the community would certainly not give it a star rating in the tenant participation department, for one.Hounslow Homes has been a barrier to tenant participation in Isleworth and has in fact been quite relentless and single-minded in its efforts to prevent all but a carefully chosen few from having any involvement in the tenants' movement whatsoever.  So much so, in fact, that residents on Ivybridge have had to set up their own independent tenants' group because they have been excluded from the "official" organisation which is supposed to represent the whole estate.Although it is supposed to be non-political, Hounslow Homes has been to all extents and purposes the executive arm of the Labour Party on our estates and indeed the organised community regards it, rather than the Labour Party proper, as its principal opponent.When I was first elected to the council in 1998 I received a letter from the Director of Housing at Hounslow Council, now the Managing Director of Hounslow Homes, informing me that I would not receive the same level of co-operation from his department as other councillors.  Despite several requests, this extraordinary edict has never been revoked, and two Chief Executives have permitted this state of affairs to continue unchallenged.Council representatives on the Management Board at Hounslow Homes have always been appointees from the Labour Group, save for a reluctant recent sop to democracy by appointing the unaffiliated independent councillor Luke Kirton as a fifth member.Councillors from the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Community Groups have never been allowed a seat, and the borough has even appointed defeated ex-councillors to the Board in an extraordinarily arrogant gesture which effectively tells tenants on our estates that they have got it "wrong" by voting their cronies out of office.Even "tenants' representatives" on the Board more often than not transpire to be Labour Party cronies and activists.  Of course these people are elected by tenants - in a process monitored by...Hounslow Homes.This is the same Hounslow Homes which - as the Housing department at the London Borough of Hounslow - published, in collaboration with the then Labour councillors, a survey revealing that 87% of residents on Isleworth's Worton estate wanted a housing estate built on their village green.  When doubting residents conducted their own survey, an even larger percentage was found to be against the scheme.When the Audit Commission previously assessed Hounslow Homes' performance I insisted on giving evidence to the reluctant inspector.  When his report came to be published, not only had my evidence been ignored, but my name hadn't even made it onto the list of interviewees!I am afraid that all the Audit Commission's findings have done for me is to reconfirm what a thoroughly pointless organisation it is.  They should be given the same credence as a general election result from Zimbabwe.

Phil Andrews ● 7305d

In Response To: MoragAnn has done a huge amount of work on the mogden problem, she has lobbied the Government, got Government Ministers to Isleworth to see the problems for themselves, supported the councils case, managed to help get changes to recent legislation to make (the mosquito problem a statutory nuisance). This is along side the work that the Council and local people have also been doing.  Last year and this year we called door to door to talk to local residents about the stink and Mosquito problems to assess if an f the changes ahd made a difference. She cannot force Thames Water to act properly, she has and is doing as much as she can. If you have any ideas of what more she can do then please let me have them and I will discuss them with her and our Local Labour Councillors ALLAN PLEASE FORGIVE THE CAPITAL LETTERS AS IT IS JUST A WAY OF SEPERATING YOUR ANSWERS FROM MY QUESTIONS.SHE DOES HAVE THE EAR OF THE TWO MOST POWERFUL MEN IN THE U.K.  IT WOULD BE NICE IF SHE COULD PERSUADE THEM TO DIG INTO THE POCKETS OF THE SHAREHOLDERS TO COME UP WITH SOME OF THE CASH REQUIRED TO MAKE MOGDEN ODOUR FREE; AND NOT LEAVE IT UP TO THE TAXPAYERS TO FOOT THE BILL.AS FAR AS THE THIRD RUNWAY IS CONCERNED WE HAVE  BEEN LIED TO ON TO MANY OCCASIONS TO TAKE ANYTHING THAT B.A.A. TELLS US AS GOSPEL    I SAY THIS AS IT WOULD BE THE MOST FOOLISH UNDERTAKING IN THE WORLD TO BUILD A SHORT RUNWAY WHEN AT VERY LITTLE EXTRA EXPENSE A LONGER ONE COULD BE CONSTRUCTED OF COURSE THIS IS ME LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE WHEN A SIMPLE EXTENSION WOULD COST PROBABLY TEN TIMES THE COST OF THE ORIGINAL ONE? DO YOU GET MY DRIFT?

Morag Campbell Hawick ● 7305d

Alan You may wish to temper your euphoria for a moment because the 2005 general election result was certainly not a success, in real terms for Ann Keen, despite her retaining the seat. In the 2001 general election, 23,275 votes were cast in favour of Ann Keen. The combined votes of Ann Keen’s opponents numbered 20,275 votes. This represents a differential of 3,000 votes. With 3,000 more votes for Ann Keen than for her opponents, Ann Keen might well have felt in a comfortable enough position.Just four years later and the 2005 general election lead to a situation where a complete turnaround occurred. A situation where Ann Keen’s opponents accumulated 27,688 votes while Ann Keen only managed to attract the support of 18,329 voters. The 2005 general election thus resulted in a differential of 9,359 votes. That’s 9,359 voters voting against Ann Keen by casting their vote for her opponents, which is obviously a rather uncomfortable position for Ann Keen to have found herself in, just four years after the 2001 general election. In effect, 53.44% voted in favour of Ann Keen in the 2001 general election while 46.56% voted against her. A difference of 6.89%, voting in Ann Keen’s favour. In the 2005 general election, 39.83% voted in favour of Ann Keen while 60.17% voted against her. A difference of 20.34%, voting against Ann Keen.  On these figures, it isn’t too difficult to imagine Mrs Keen losing her seat come the next general election. Very few politicians can sustain such a loss of confidence, least of all a backbencher such as the likes of Ann Keen.

Gareth Evans ● 7307d

ConalWe seem to be on a similar wavelength, other than that I maybe take a slightly more parochial view of things.My view is (and I'm sure Adrian will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Conservatives regard the Lib Dems at council level as a lovable and unthreatening bunch but dislike the party politically, whilst they look at the ICG with suspicion and some of them, but probably not all of them, would like to see the back of us even if it means Labour resuming control in Isleworth.Like Labour they can't, won't and refuse to understand that the ICG has no long-term political ambitions of its own.  I certainly don't want to be doing this forever, and if honest and decent local government can be introduced into Hounslow then a situation might well exist in which we could withdraw into a "pressure group" role and leave the politics to the politicians.Labour in Hounslow, I'm afraid, is much worse than complacent and unambitious.  Indeed I would argue that Labour in Hounslow is highly ambitious, only for itself rather than for the community which, as it seems not to realise, it was elected to serve.  It has taken on all the worst aspects of a masonic sect (with appropriate apologies to any masons who may be offended by the comparison) only without the good causes.  When Ann Keen stood on the podium on May 5th and chuckled at the constituents whom she had refused to meet at the hustings meetings and whom she had ripped off with her outrageous expense claims she epitomised the sheer contempt in which the whole local party, irrespective of "faction", holds those who do not number amongst their hallowed ranks.As for the Tories, I do not believe that the voters of this borough will ever opt for hardcore ideological conservatism.  Other than in their traditional areas they will in my view make progress only where they adopt a dynamic and people-orientated approach, as Mark Bowen has done so brilliantly in Feltham North.  I am not saying that Mark isn't an ideological Conservative - he is, very much so - but he is also a realist whose actions clearly demonstrate that his commitment to his constituents comes first.I happen to believe that many, probably most, of the local Conservatives are good people who have a lot to offer local government in Hounslow.  If we elect a council which puts their talents to good use whilst sparing us some of their excesses at budget time then we will have got it just about right.As for whom the cheerleader of the revolution will be Conal, the job's yours if you want it!!

Phil Andrews ● 7309d

ConalPolitically you may be right, but I feel there are two additional factors which you need to take into account.Firstly the situation in Hounslow has a particular urgency about it due to the nature of the Labour Party itself.  Community participation is essential for the well-being of any democracy and it just isn't possible in Hounslow today due to Labour's insecurity and control freakery.  Yes, Bliar and his cronies are control freaks too but in Hounslow his people are out of control.  Labour has burrowed itself like a tapeworm on speed into the fabric of local government and root and branch surgery is urgently required if the process is to stand any chance of being reversed.Secondly, loss of overall control to New Labour will not mean the Conservatives taking over.  The Tories are fairly secure in the twelve seats of Chiswick & Osterley but there is no evidence to suggest that they are going to expand very far beyond that and, other than David Giles, nobody seriously believes that the party will suddenly emerge from next year's council elections with over thirty seats.We have next year a golden opportunity to remove a uniquely pernicious New Labour regime without replacing it with a Conservative one.  I would have little problem with a Conservative-led administration which could make all the positive changes the Tories desired but with the ability to apply the brakes whenever necessary.Sadly, as Adrian's posts would appear to suggest, the Conservatives give every indication of preferring perpetual opposition to sharing power with others.  I still believe that some of them are overawed by the Labour Party and lack the courage and vision to even contemplate local life after Labour.

Phil Andrews ● 7309d

Hello Adrian,first of all can i say thank you to you and your colleagues for being as friendly and courteous as always during the farcical procedings last Thursday and also to Mr Northcote and Mr Davies who treated the members of the ICG present with the utmost respect which i hope was reciprecated.In my own humble opinion Mr Northcote seemed to be selected as the Conservative candidate as a learning curve for a future campaign and i have no doubt he will be an MP in a nearby constituency in a few years.I do not speak on behalf of the rest of the committee of the ICG here but i believe if Mark Bowen had been selected to fight this side of the Borough then with his track record plus his honesty and decency then i think he could have been a very serious contender indeed to win the seat.Again,i would be very surprised to see a man of his calibre not winning a seat in the not too distant future.Anyway,back to Hounslow South.The ICG were never formed with the sole intention of winning every seat on the Council,in fact fielding our first candidate was in fact just about forced on us by the ordinary man and woman in the street who had quite simply had enough of contentious local issues being railroaded through because of either local or national Labour policy regardless of what the community actually wanted or needed.As you well know,Cllr Andrews was not exactly welcomed at the Council Chamber and had a long four years trying to open the doors that were closed to him and which obstructed his duties to the community and also unravel the intricate web of the insular Labour group and the secret procedres etc.A less passionate man for serving the voters who had put their trust in him may have called it a day when the next election came around,but Cllr Andrews stood again and of of course Dr Hibbs and Fred Muston were elected also in a very resounding defeat of the Labour Party in Isleworth.The neighbouring Syon ward which was also contested by us had a very close result and but for a handful of votes we would have had four of five Cllrs now.When the by-election was called in Hounslow South a months later we all felt we had to field a candidate and i was selected.This was a genuine attempt to win an extra seat for the ICG on the Council and after the Isleworth result a few months earlier we were quietly confident of what would have been then a major upset.In the event we came a very creditable second and in fact won the most votes on the day of the election but were beaten in the end by then largely unheard of or used now postal vote although i must stress that i felt then and still do that Cllr Grewell won fair and square and was and is a very gracious and decent man.We honestly entered to win and there were no hidden objectives by us ie splitting votes etc as we felt then and feel even stronger now that we are a major force in the area and therefore we have not had the need to broker or negotiate any deals with our rivals.

Paul Fisher ● 7312d

AdrianNo, what I was trying to do - perhaps naively - was to try to persuade each of the parties and groups involved that our common interest would be served (presuming that getting shot of this awful Labour council is the common interest) by us all taking a good look at the local political map and seeing whether there were ways in which we could avoid making it more difficult for each other.It is true that Hounslow South was once a safe Conservative seat.  Many of the seats on the old Urban District Council were independent, but we are not claiming primacy on that basis.  We need to look at the situation today, and the situation as of the last time the ward went to the polls was that the ICG commanded a higher vote than the Conservatives.  Nevertheless, that wasn't the point I was making.The point I was making was that the Conservatives field candidates in Isleworth and Syon, where the ICG is clearly a stronger force at local elections, as well as in Hanworth, Bedfont and other areas where the Liberal Democrats are the main opponent to Labour.  And yet, for some inexplicable reason, you seem to expect us to help you in Hounslow South without any kind of reciprocal gesture on your part.  Why?Hounslow South presents us with a logistical problem because it was not a strategic target for the ICG originally and our primary aim remains the removal of Labour from overall control of the council.  Whether realising that aim will make any real difference in the light of the IBAC debacle is of course another matter, but we can only take one step at a time.I don't think there is anything hypocritical about trying to do whatever is within our power to free the people of this borough from the arrogant, morally bankrupt tyranny under which they presently fester.  We are ready to play our part and we are ready to listen but sadly nobody is talking, so we will just have to try to do our best under these most difficult circumstances.

Phil Andrews ● 7312d

"I'm curious only because where I used to live in Wandsworth, where people appeared to vote very differently in local elections as they did in national elections.  People seem pretty resolute in voting Labour around here when it comes to the council.  The Lib Dems, Tories, and Independents don't get much of chance it seems."ConalPeople here vote very differently at local elections too.In these parts Labour holds 36 or 37 seats (depending on whether or not you include John Connelly) from a total of 60.  If the party loses eight seats or more in 2006 it no longer has overall control of the local authority, unless one of the other parties or groups decides to prop it up in exchange for, say, a few Executive posts.  Any party which does this to the local people will be hung, drawn and quartered - politically speaking, at least.Chiswick returned nine Conservative councillors in 2002 with fairly large majorities.  It is difficult to see Labour taking any of them back next year.  Likewise in Osterley & Spring Grove.  They also have a lone councillor in Feltham North and another in Hounslow South.In the west of the borough most of the seats are Labour, but the Liberal Democrats hold all three seats in Hanworth and two in Bedfont (the third is occupied by Labour's Councillor David Hughes, with whom visitors to these forums will be familiar).  A small swing from Labour to the Lib Dems in these and surrounding wards could result in the loss of several seats.In Isleworth the ICG holds all three seats with sizeable majorities and, without wishing to appear complacent, we intend to hold onto them.  New Labour's staggeringly appalling track record here is likely to take a lot more than four years to erase itself from public memory. In 2002 we came within 32 votes of taking at least one seat in neighbouring Syon, and ran Labour a fairly close second at a by-election in Hounslow South a few months later.  These are seats which the community could quite easily claim from Labour next year.One seat in Brentford was won by the ABeeC, showing that voters there too are receptive to the appeal of the independent councillor.  Despite having no previous experience of office that councillor, Luke Kirton, has proved to be exceptionally good, out-performing his New Labour counterparts quite decisively.  The ICG is becoming increasingly active and may or not decide to contest the seats next year.As you will see therefore it is entirely possible, even likely, that Labour will be made to pay next year for its arrogance and bad attitude.  I'm afraid I don't buy all this rubbish about "I don't agree with what Ann Keen is doing but...".  If you selected her, voted for her and encouraged others to vote for her, campaigned for her and displayed her election posters in your window in the full knowledge of what she has done then as far as I am concerned you too are a season ticket holder on the same gravy train.  End of story.The respective "areas of influence" for the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and ICG are for the most part clear-cut.  If the three of us stick to them we have a very good chance of rescuing the people of this borough from these people.  Where the danger lies is with opposition parties and groups concentrating their efforts on trying to oust each other from their own natural domains.  This happened in Syon in 2002, where the Liberal Democrats mounted a determined push for third place which succeeded only in preventing the ICG from taking three seats from Labour.  Had the Lib Dems put that effort into Bedfont they would have easy won the third seat and would have their own Political Assistant working for them at the Civic Centre.Neither Brentford nor the surrounding wards are irretrievably lost to New Labour.  Far from it.  If you still need any convincing Conal, my e-mail address is phil@communitygroup.org.uk!

Phil Andrews ● 7315d