Forum Topic

BLACK PLASTIC FOOD POTS/TRAYS

I'm starting a new thread as - originally put it at the end of the Christmas recycling one which has got too long and is all past and done.   My daughter in Brentford received a note in her recycling box to say that LBH could not recycle black plastic food pots and trays - nothing about this in Chiswick and the council continue to collect these in the plastics recycling.   I think it's something to do with the dye used - what is the correct procedure please, Philippa or Guy

Jennifer Selig ● 2941d23 Comments

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0622vyf

Philippa Bond ● 2873d

http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/glass-4

Philippa Bond ● 2873d

LOL - I've only bought meat at Mackens! There are gate fees for all the places that waste is taken to be dealt with as well as the costs of collection and sorting.  The gate fees for landfill were set to increase every year in order to encourage other methods of disposal. The idea nowadays is to see waste as a resource.https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/circular-economyhttp://www.wrap.org.uk/about-us/about/wrap-and-circular-economy

Philippa Bond ● 2876d

Prices go up and down but there is a massive amount of sorting that has to be done to get down to single waste streams.Plastic is an enormous problem as there are so many different types and mixes - one of the reasons why the flimsy film tops of pots tubs and trays aren't recycled into new plastic items.PET and HDPE are recycled most. If you look at the bottom of say a plastic grape box you will often find rPET which shows that there is recycled content in the box - so it does happen.HDPE plastic milk bottles can be recycled back into plastic milk bottles but that doesn't mean that it happens.  Vast numbers of plastic bottles of all types still don't make it back into the system.https://www.recyclenow.com/what-to-do-with/milk-bottles-0New and safe uses for reuse and recycling of packaging materials is always being sought.There is still not enough producer packaging responsibility as we still get too much unnecessary packaging and hard to recycle packaging.In Germany you would be able to leave packaging inside the store instead of taking it home and having to deal with it there.I see that from a thread on cw4.com that Waitrose have now changed their policy and you don't have to accept all their plastic packaging on fish.  Mackens will wrap your fish in paper.  There is a new store on Chiswick High Road where you can take your own containers to be filled.The problem is our inability to say enough is enough and make a stand.  What a lot of sad marketing victims we've become.

Philippa Bond ● 2877d

What do you mean by cost?  And cost to whom?  There is a company where you can buy a delivery of all the ingredients ready to make a meal.

Philippa Bond ● 2877d

Does anyone know of a source comparing the recycled vs replacement lifecycle cost of packaging?My initial observation is that if recycled packaging has value then businesses would be knocking on my door to take it away. Remember the rag and bone man?

Andy Herrick ● 2878d

https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/waste-industry-seeking-to-work-with-treasury-on-plastic-tax/

Philippa Bond ● 2878d

Not sure why there are extra holes but flats are still on the old regime where paper and cardboard are collected separately. How much you discriminate between different types of recycling is a balance. For example, clear glass is worth slightly more than coloured glass but not enough to justify the complication and cost of sorting, so in the new regime they are treated the same. I'm assuming something similar applies to paper and cardboard.

Guy Lambert ● 2883d

She's continuing to dump all plastics into the red box.  Seems to be taken now.  Incidentally why have the collection lorries got separate openings for paper and another for cardboard when everything in the blue boxes  goes into the paper hole regardless and I clearly put all my card items neatly in one larger container - no excuse for not lifting it out!  The same thing applies with plastics and tins - two compartments on the lorries but all dumped into the one.  Why have the extra holes in the lorries if not needed?

Jennifer Selig ● 2883d

I haven't specifically asked the question about black plastic but if I could remember how to post pictures here I would show one of a bale of plastic after processing in Southall Lane, which certainly includes black items. I'm assuming that the kerbside sorting regime LBH uses sidesteps problems. The relevant bits of the recycling truck are discharged into different bays at the centre and, as I understand it, subjected to only cursory inspection before being baled for  transport to recycling plants.There are certain plastics that are not recyclable, or at least have to be dealt with separately. These include plant pots, plastic coat hangers and a lot of plastic toys and melamine which require higher temperatures (I think) and don't mix, and polystyrene which I think is not recyclable at all.I learn that all this is imprecise - the bales of recycling will have some of 'the wrong stuff' but will be accepted by reprocessors if they are 'near enough'I'd be happy to discuss with your daughter in Brentford, Jennifer if she/you PM's me or contacts via my council address.

Guy Lambert ● 2885d

National Audit Office reviews our recycling system - packaging recovery notes.https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/nao-review-prn-system/

Philippa Bond ● 2887d

I can understand the frustration of not really knowing what the Council is asking for - that is what drove me to find out more - just so that I had a better understanding myself.  I thought it should all be straightforward but in looking for the answer to everything I discovered the usefulness of CRAG and BRAG and rediscovered Douglas Adams...  LIDS still drive me nuts.I'm sure half the problem now is the dumbing down of the info when difficulty in the past was mostly just an excuse and there is a lack of funding for continuous and consistent council communications since there is always a transient population.  Not to mention the never-ending pushy marketing eg the wipes marked as "Flushable" in big letters on the front and then when you turn over on the back it says something different.When you read what Water UK (the body representing the many Water Companies) says you learn that they don't want all this other stuff down the sewers because it contributes to fatbergs together with the fat.  London's Victorian sewers were built for 4 million people and there are now over 8 million!  A lot of non-biodegradable ie plastic stuff now gets put down together with a lot of uneaten food.If residents don't manage their food well and end up wasting it then it is best for it to go into the food waste bins so that it can be turned into compost, gas and electricity.  Has anyone had a chance to visit an Anaerobic Digestion Plant? Some Councils offer these.There are lots of websites to help where you can just put into a search what to do with particular ingredients.  Always know three recipes for each ingredient was a tip I picked up from a Sam's Brasserie competition on reducing food waste. It's useful to have a less onerous one as well as the one you originally intended to make.  It's also useful to have a freezer as so many foods in different states can be frozen for later use.www.lovefoodhatewaste.com  - new campaign this New Year on poultry - plus freezing tips - portions etchttps://www.thameswater.co.uk/Help-and-Advice/Drains-and-Sewers/Blockages/Bin-It-dont-Block-Ithttp://westlondonwaste.gov.uk/reuse-guide/cooking-oil-2/There is an award-winning company that collects used cooking oil in West London which is particularly useful commercial enterprises.You REALLY REALLY don't want to have blocked drains!

Philippa Bond ● 2932d

Just want to say thanks to Philippa for her very useful research on recycling issues.

Virginia Fassnidge ● 2936d

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39953209A list of products which are difficult to recycle.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/11/scotland-to-become-first-uk-ban-plastic-cotton-budsHere's a photo the photographer didn't want to take:http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit/wpy/gallery/2017/images/the-wildlife-photojournalist-award-single-image/5230/sewage-surfer.htmlhttps://www.citytosea.org.uk/Are you flushing unflushables?

Philippa Bond ● 2936d

I think we're all fed up with the amount of packaging. We need to complain more! Unless we do we are considered to want it.I think we have to go back to taking it off and leaving it at the till - if we can - that is if we don't decide to shop elsewhere where there is less of it - eg the greengrocer.We can also lobby the government - check out current petitions. Don't waste your time and energy on "Contact us" forms on manufacturers or retailers websites UNLESS you also copy your complaint elsewhere as well - so that your complaint can't just be filed in a black hole or rebuffed with a standard letter - and you have no record.Amazon has a feedback option - use it!  There are producer responsibility regulations for packaging and they should not be using huge boxes for small items.  Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall reported that they were one of the companies he received the most complaints about.Photograph what you consider to be excessive or unnecessary packaging and email it to whoever is running the latest campaign.  There have been lots of articles in all colours of newspaper recently but two I've been aware of for a long time are The Guardian and the BBC.

Philippa Bond ● 2938d

no. i don't order from amazon.... slave labour

Sarah Thomas ● 2938d

Have you had one of ‘those’ Amazon delivery boxes with a huge cardboard box, filled with about 10 feet of brown paper, and your item a tiny thing somewhere in the middle? Amaz-ing!

Sarah Felstead ● 2938d

I get so frustrated with the whole 'recycle bin' rules and regulations.I do think that the responsibility should be thrown back at the supplier rather than the consumer.Cardboard, paper and glass is all reusable and recyclable so why is most of the items we buy packaged in such environmently unfriendly materials?We, the consumer, don't really have a choice in how the end product arrives on the shelves but the supplier does. Why isn't the responsibility handed back up the supply chain?

Sarah Thomas ● 2938d

https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20128/household_recycling_and_waste_collections/1597/plastic_recycling_in_your_red_boxThe Daily Mail is busy getting its knickers in a twist about this.  You don't need to.  I don't know where the note came from but I would expect a bigger and better announcement from the Council if they were going to change their collection including info on the website and that hasn't changed.  LBH like many other Councils are collecting black plastic rigid tubs and trays in the recycling collection.  There has been a difficulty with the optical scanners reading black plastic but WRAP has been working to find a dye scanners don't have difficulty with. There is more than one type of black plastic anyway. Technology changes all the time.  Unless the Council says otherwise officially just give them what they ask for and let them get on with it.  They have most definitely asked that film (ie non-rigid plastic - carrier bags - bread and vegetable bags - and peel-off film lids from containers etc are NOT included in the KERBSIDE collection) which really is not difficult butstill some people cannot deal with that change - yet products, markets and machinery constantly change. There is a big problem with heavy and pushy marketing which tries its luck and puts so much unnecessary packaging on the market and into our homes and then it is left up to us and the Councils to dispose of it. On the Continent you can leave excess packaging at the tills/at the shop. In Ireland they have been trialling that but it would be even better if we all could easily buy goods with less.  In 2006 the then Minister told us to leave our excess packaging at the till.  We don't protest enough and so are complicit in giving ourselves this packaging waste mountain.Many people decide of their own volition not to buy all the packaging or difficult to recycle packaging by buying their fruit and vegetables from the greengrocer and meat from the butcher where you can often take your own container - or you are given it in a small plastic bag rather than a container. You can often also buy meals that you can slide out of silver foil and cardboard packaging into a piedish to heat in the microwave - if you have a microwave lifestyle.   

Philippa Bond ● 2940d

Hardly think having to buy all these million of new plastic boxes, new collection vehicles and build a new depot is cheaper option!  Anyhow back to black plastic is it or isn't it recyclable and acceptable to put in our plastics recycling box?

Jennifer Selig ● 2940d

LB Ealing issue one wheely bin for all recycling. I imagine there are pros and cons in each approach but suspect that this  means more staff back at the yard to do the sorting. Councils are so strapped for cash I imagine they will choose the cheapest option.

Iain Muir ● 2940d

The more I hear about the items that cannot be recycled at the kerbside (by we, the unskilled public) the more stupid this entire process becomes.  Sorting recyclables is a job for the professionals back at the sorting depot.  So why  bother with forcing all these different boxes and bins on us?  We just need one bin for food waste; one box for all recyclable items and a refuse black bag for everything else.  If pushed I suppose it's fairly easy for the public to sort out newspaper/cardboard items and glass/tins but that's more containers and surely they're easy for the sorters at a specialised depot to pick out. Garden rubbish is a separate collection.  The simpler the better and the more people will be able to use it.

Jennifer Selig ● 2940d

I seem to think that the machinery at the recycling plant can’t recognise this type of plastic.  I would like to know if this is the case as we presently put ours in the plastic recycling and it has always been taken.  If I get it wrong tomorrow it will be hanging around for another 2 weeks until the next household collection.

Sarah Felstead ● 2941d