Forum Topic

Teachers

We often hear teacher recruitment is going well. Plently of teachers being recruited is the mantra. Now all of a sudden Mr Hinds says he is going to cut their workload. Also that the recruiment goals have been missed for the last five years. What is the truth?

Nicholas Beard ● 2887d32 Comments

You need stronger regulations with increased enforcement. Sadly post Brexit we will get the opposite. We dont like regulations here. Look at the difference in the number of deaths while building the channel tunnel between France and Uk.

Nicholas Beard ● 2852d

At the beginning of last year we lost a family friend - a teacher - to mesothelioma.  There are building being demolished as well and everyone needs to make sure that the contractors take proper precautions to remove any asbestos and contain the dust.  From discussions on here in the past there is not a lot of confidence in that at all.  It is easier (and cheaper in the short term) to turn a blind eye.

Philippa Bond ● 2852d

The new president announced a few weeks ago that the maximum class size for primary schools will be 12 students. As Philippa says what is on offer to our children ASBESTOS!!!!

Nicholas Beard ● 2852d

There's a hidden asbestos problem with a lot of our schools.  It is considered better to leave it than to disturb it.  It is important that all teachers and staff realise this.  They can't expect the children to realise that it may be dangerous to kick the wall or damage the ceilings.

Philippa Bond ● 2852d

Somewhat exaggerated, Nicholas. Schools in designated "priority" areas in France, where educational achievement is historically low and poverty high, have slashed their class sizes for pupils between aged five to six.So, for one year group (the first in French primary education) and only in identified priority areas.  Welcome, nonetheless, but otherwise the average primary class size in France is 25.  In the UK it is 27, according to OECD.As regards your comments about UK teachers.Poor pay - I agreeLarge class sizes - it’s the administrative/bureaucratic ‘overhead’ that makes large classes so demanding for teachers, not the teachingPoor support - I agree: often as much by the school leadership and parents as by the governmentPoor pensions - better than most, as a proportion of payLong working life - no longer than for othersOld Victorian buildings - not sure why is this bad? There is much debate on this forum about the allegedly poor quality of modern buildings compared to those of yesteryear!

Barry Jacques ● 2853d

I know a village school like that. My wifes mum went to it and its still there. Now packed with technology. When you leave the village and go to Paris it takes a while at a steady 130kmph. One day when I arrived I thought big towns are a vision of hell. I loved Brentford of the sixties. I used to cycle there along the canal. I often thought that arriving after the lonely ride along the towpath I was entering paradise. Do you know you needed a permit for a bike on the towpath. I bought that at the gaugeing lock office. There was a big desk with a brass raol all around it. It cost 25p in new money.

Nicholas Beard ● 2859d

Etre et Avoir was the film - a fly on the wall documentary about a one teacher one room school in the Auvergne.  It won a lot of prizes at the time but it seems as I can see now that its success caused problems.  Nevertheless a brilliant film.

Philippa Bond ● 2859d

Exactly!  Also if there is a problem they often did not get the back up they needed.I remember seeing a beautiful film (documentary type) of a French village primary school.  I can't remember the name of it. That surely is more like what it should be like.

Philippa Bond ● 2863d

Yes I saw  that. It makes it hard for teachers. Result they leave. Do you remember the SUPERHEADS started by Blair. £100000.00 starting salary. Within a year most had gone. Well if you are on a £100000.00 and pack it in that says it all.

Nicholas Beard ● 2863d

Did you see this today on malnourished children and why some teachers really didn't want to close their schools because of the snow:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43611527

Philippa Bond ● 2863d

No. I was watching the news and saw that in France primary school classes are limited to 12 pupils. Also they are lowering the school starting age to 3 yrs old. I felt sorry for our teachers. Poor pay large class sizes. Poor support. Poor pensions and a long working life to get it. Many many old Victorian buildings. That why I started this thread.

Nicholas Beard ● 2864d

Was the reason that you started this thread because you saw a TV advert offering bursaries worth £26,000 to go into teaching?

Philippa Bond ● 2864d

We could cut defence spending. We could make tax havens subject to stronger regulations. The Isle of Man for example. 2p on NI. 2p a litte on fuel. There is a start.

Nicholas Beard ● 2879d

Did you hear Any Questions?http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09v8xwgThere must have been a question because I caught a bit of Any Answers? which followed:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tz064

Philippa Bond ● 2880d

I think that you will find that just like with nursing the working conditions have deteriorated so much that this is no longer such a satisfying job. These are professionals whose credentials are essential to their employment - so why risk losing them?  Everybody has a work:life balance to try to maintain.  Poor working conditions are partly because of the shortage of staff and back-up - it is a vicious cycle.  If we value state education and the NHS then we need to pay for it - all of us need to pay for it.  Like many things we may not always need them but we need them to be there when we do need them.

Philippa Bond ● 2880d

People think change is progress. Thats Goves idea. I think I read that the Romans first discovered this but cannot quote exactly where.

Nicholas Beard ● 2883d

But - things would also improve a great deal if successive Education Ministers stopped the constant interfering in schools. Nothing is ever given time to settle before it's all change and off we go yet again. Gove's barmy idea of not having GCSEs graded A - G but 9 - 1 is a prime example - really what difference does it make? Everyone understood the system as it was - the new bloke in charge could stop this but I daresay he has equally  time wasting, dopey theories of his own he wants to inflict on the education system.

Vanessa Smith ● 2883d

"I would has been in big bother if my parents had not taught me to read write, and numeracy."Precisely - because our parents took responsibility for parenting. They didn't leave it ALL up to the teachers. Teachers have plenty on their plates with all the admin etc. They should be entitled to expect some responsible behaviour from the parents as they do in France, Holland, Germany, Australia, New Zealand et el. Young people aren't having their futures wrecked because of the teachers. They are having their futures wrecked because of irresponsible, lazy 'parents'.

Steve Taylor ● 2883d

Exactly Vanessa - it's a nightmare trying to find people who can actualy do much needed manual jobs.  Nowadays even ditch diggers appear to require 5 or 6 GCSEs - madness.  Education isn't all books and paperwork, despite Tony Blair insisting everyone had to go to Uni.  I've watched experienced older plumbers and bricklayers working with an apprentice in tow.  There's a big difference amongst these apprentices - some just seem sullen and bored out of their minds while others are really eager and keen to learn.

Jennifer Selig ● 2883d

She's going to do an apprenticeship now. The whole year failed at the first attempt due to having fit a whole years work in a month so she says. She thought Chiswick was a good school when she first joined the last few years it got bad.

Chris White ● 2883d

The other problem is students who wish to pursue apprenticeships in practical subjects - plumbing, electrician, etc. are being asked for 5 GCSE's and in some cases 10 by companies! If these kids were that academic they would  in all probability not pursue a practical avenue, some of these firms need to be asked why they are insisting on this and wasting the practical talents of a lot of kids. We will always need tradesmen - not sure they need to be academic geniuses too.

Vanessa Smith ● 2883d

I well remember the chalk on the cane. It was considered very badly.

Nicholas Beard ● 2883d

I recall when I was at school we did not have any inspiring teachers at all and the norm was to leave school at sixteen or join the local Technical Collage and I honestly do not remember anyone ever going on to universitySaying that though we all learnt to read and write and got a very decent education overall by our teachers but perhaps they were not so stressed with behind the scenes paperworkAlso the cane being used was I think a simple way of installing discipline and I can honestly say I dont think it did me any harm and in fact kept me on the straight and narrow at timesOne teacher use to make us choose which cane he would use from a large collection he had in his office and then wipe chalk on it so he could try and hit the same spot each time!

Paul Fisher ● 2883d

A story like this makes me very upset. A shortage of teachers for subjects. Technical ones like biology. The government has constantly said plenty of teachers being recruited. £26000.00 when you start all great. I bet there are plenty of teachers in certain types of schools. Language teaching is another area  that is suffering, very imporyant post Brexit. Young people having their futures wrecked although they desparately want to suceed. I saw a snippit on the news recently where in France maximum class size in primary schools is now limited to twelve. Our response? Its not class size that matters its the quality of teaching that matters. Well how come class sizes in the private sector are smaller than in the state sector? I can remember when I was at primary school wondering what it was about. I would has been in big bother if my parents had not taught me to read write, and numeracy. A typical experience was we were taught Italic writing at primary, the teacher even had italic chalk. Really good? Not when we got to secondary school and we were questioned by the headmaster as to why we wrote 'funny'. I remember at secondary we were asked what we wanted to be. I remember so clearly a boy saying a doctor. The teacher actually told him not to be silly. The question meant did he want to work in a factory or an office for example. He ended up in London Transport because his dad got him in. If his dad had not what would have happened. Oh I feel so sorry for that BIOLOGY student. Post Brexit does not look good with our education record. People try to deny it but the story here has happened, Its fact.

Nicholas Beard ● 2883d

My friends niece  is now leaving school and not going to uni as her school has gone through a few biology teachers.she's now accepted she's going to fail biology as she no longer has a teacher at the school which have in turn told them to prepare for the exam by using the internet instead

Chris White ● 2883d

All rights and no responsibilities.However that is the same in management in this country.  Passing the buck and kicking into the long grass are the actions of government...

Philippa Bond ● 2883d

Well said Steve.  Most depressingly, many born since 1980ties seem to have this attitude that they are owed a living - all is free by right.  They've not been brought up to accept responsibility for themselves.  It's all down to the Government or "someone" to provide their housing, their money, health, safety, the care of their own parents and the care and education of any children they carelessly and unthinkingly produce.  They are even incapable of caring for their own bodies - hence the increase in rape and molestation cases.  It is all someone else's fault, none lies within themselves.  They'd never have seen Hitler off or managed with bombs and rationing!  A few buck the trend but it's becoming more and more of a battle.  How to turn the entire lifestyle round is beyond my limited experience.

Jennifer Selig ● 2884d

"What are we doing to families that we are getting this total breakdown in society?"It isn't what WE are doing to families; it's about what families aren't doing for themselves. The lack of responsibility taken by many, many parents these days is absolutely appalling. So many believe it is their 'right' to sit back and leave the teachers to do all the parenting and training of their offspring in basic life skills. And God help the teachers if they get it wrong and have to endure the wrath of an ignorant so called 'parent'.They need to be taught that making a baby doesn't make you a parent!

Steve Taylor ● 2884d

I asked if these children were of a minority ethnicity or had another first language but was told that no they were white British.  What are we doing to families that we are getting this total breakdown in society?

Philippa Bond ● 2886d

We should be setting up special units for children with poor English. With the latest language learning technology and books I would have thoight

Nicholas Beard ● 2886d

Apart from knowing about how teachers also have to be social workers nowadays when families are split and homeless or in temporary accommodation and the children are struggling to keep going to school/parents struggling to get them there; today I was hearing about teachers having to deal with children starting school still in nappies and without being able to speak because their parents don't talk to them ie poor parenting rather than anything else.

Philippa Bond ● 2887d

I can only say as a school governor - it is an ongoing problem recruiting and retaining teachers, there is a distinct lack of people wanting to train given the pressures, and many start out only to find that the profession is not for them a couple of years in. Over the years the constant collecting of statistics, form filling, changing government policies, and league tables is enough for anyone to question why they bother. On top of that - especially in London - the cost of finding somewhere to live is prohibitive as it is for so many in the public sector.  If the government seriously think that just because someone has served in the Forces they will automatically make good teachers then they're barmier than I thought - it simply doesn't always follow that one qualifies you for the other.

Vanessa Smith ● 2887d