Forum Topic

People's Vote petition

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/petition?utm_campaign=obemail_114&utm_medium=email&utm_source=inIf you think we should get a say on the final Brexit deal please sign.......

Vanessa Smith ● 2612d19 Comments

I'm guessing, not being one of the Chosen Ones myself, but I would imagine he recognises that inequality is the issue and not Brexit per se.Or to put it another way, he acknowledges that the EU is an institution in which a commitment to the neoliberal economics which underpin inequality is enshrined within the constitution, but that the alternative as promoted by the Daily Mail and the dumb Little Ing-er-landers is one in which it is envisaged the gap will widen still further.Corbyn, as with most of the left, has historically recognised the true nature of the EU and has opposed it for that reason.  The dilemma has been that in continuing to do so he may have been hastening our progress towards the offshore low-tax, low-wage paradise of which the Tory right so dreams.  Hence his conversion to the cause of remaining in the EU, albeit a much reformed one.

Phil Andrews ● 2603d

Why did Corbyn support Brexit and Article 50? Why does he oppose Peoples' vote?

Alex Shpinkov ● 2603d

I agree - deliberately vague as I can't prove it. I'm hoping someone else will do the research.

Guy Lambert ● 2603d

Not wishing to provide and comfort or shelter to tories, I think you over egg who they are.Many have earned their wealth entirely honourably and despise the fraudsters and chancers that, dishonestly,  wiggle their way out of the "have not's" into the "haves". The honourable and "worthy" way of joining the tories (from the perspective of the tories) is merely to accumulate wealth while avoiding taint of ill deeds. This is a split within the tories (not as bad as Brexit, but with similar membership), they, at arms length, welcome the dubious "new wealth", as it keeps them in power, and applaud the successful triers, but have a visceral antipathy towards the public sector (unless a civil service high fliers) and those who try but fail.I would rather we kept faith with those who fail and let them try again, and if they are not as successful as they would like to be, hug them, and help them and them appreciate them for the successes they can have.There is too much looking down noses amongst the tories, and too much acceptance of successful but bad ways of becoming rich. Not all tories are bad people, but as Edmund Burke said (setting gender specific language aside), The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Christopher Gillie ● 2603d

The culture of the Tory party is, and always has been, to protect the rich. Many of its supporters protect their wealth by using tax-avoidance loopholes and tax havens to limit company tax liabilities. This amounts to many billions of pounds per year in the UK.If you look into the financial background of Brexiters such as Arron Banks, George Magan, the Barclay brothers, Lord Edmiston, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Andrea Leadsom’s husband you begin to see what is at stake for them.In June 2016 the European Council adopted the EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (EU 2016/1164), stipulating rules against tax avoidance practices. Members of the EU are required to apply the legally binding anti-abuse measures from 1 January 2019.  The directive seeks to create a limited amount of protection against corporate tax avoidance and to develop a fairer and more stable environment for business.The UK taxation system, with many tax havens, currently provides a lucrative playing field for individual and corporate tax evasion. The EU directive means that UK companies would have to pay billions of pounds in UK taxation that they had previously evaded.Brexit will mean that wealthy Tory supporters and others can continue with their deplorable schemes. The reason we have not heard much about this is probably that business interests have ensured that there is no media publicity on the issue. Perhaps the Daily Mail will publish a leader about this tomorrow and perhaps pigs will be seen flying (with very low decibels) over Brentford.

Jim Storrar ● 2604d

"I am told"I am not wanting to doubt you, as I would like to believe it was true, but "I am told" is an unhelpfully vague data source.

Christopher Gillie ● 2604d

Why did May invoke A50 on 29/3/17? I'm told it's because the date we leave the EU 2 yrs later is just days before the EU's Anti Tax Avoidance Directive takes full effect. The 29th March 2019 was the last date the UK could remain in the EU without exposing Tory grandees and Brexit backers to tax scrutiny.

Guy Lambert ● 2604d

The press manipulated the leave vote.

Nicholas Beard ● 2604d

I'm not expert - enough of the sneering comment Nicholas.  I am too old for it to matter to me but of course but it will affect my young relatives.    Over 50% of those voting voted to Leave, wonder why?  You can answer that Nicholas I'm in no doubt.

Jennifer Selig ● 2604d

Daily Mail readers are happy with sign off question. The truth does not come into it. Ask a brexiteer which directives they dont like and often they cannot answer (Jennifer can I expect).

Nicholas Beard ● 2604d

The MEPs and Commissioners earn really big dosh though.  It's a lucrative business to be in, all their numerous assistants and researchers also receive very generous payments for their services.  No wonder they don't want it all to end - they won't get that amount in domestic politics.

Jennifer Selig ● 2604d

Thank you.

Jennifer Selig ● 2605d

Jennifer - If people took time to find out about European government they would see that Brussels is actually more democratic than Westminster.  MEP are elected by proportional representation (public vote) and Commissioners are appointed by elected governments (just as the House of Lords), but for a limited time.Also the accounts sign off is a myth that the Daily Mail and Express like to feed to their angry, bitter readers.  A quick internet search for the Court of Auditors confirms sign off every year since 2007.

Gareth Mitchell ● 2606d

If the alternative is a pseudo-democratic gerrymandered quasi-religious partly feudal hybrid mess of a state with no constitution and where a private citizen is hounded and hated as a traitor for daring to say parliament should be sovereign, by people who want Parliament to be sovereign. If the alternative is a government where even the cabinet cannot agree what Brexit is and are trying to choose between options that have already been rejected by the EU, at a cost of at LEAST 40 billion pounds, plus any economic damage.Honestly, yes. The EU has many problems, but Brexit has many many more, and I loathe the idea of being governed by Nativist little Englanders who want Brexit at any cost.

Christopher Gillie ● 2608d

I think the people at Ferrovial might have a different view after todays announcement.

Nicholas Beard ● 2609d

Who in their right mind wants to be governed by an un-elected very greedy group of Continentals, for want of a better word, who can't even complete their accounts - not once since their inception!

Jennifer Selig ● 2609d

I was, but I was also looking a bit beyond this as well.

Phil Andrews ● 2611d

"the misplaced faith that so many British voters still have in an establishment which is rotten to the core and which does not have their best interests at its heart"If I'd just seen this bit in isolation, I'd have thought you were talking about the average leave voters view of Westminster.

Ian Fillingham ● 2611d

I've signed it, but for the same rather cynical reason that I voted Leave in the first place - because I believe that a second referendum would finally do for the misplaced faith that so many British voters still have in an establishment which is rotten to the core and which does not have their best interests at its heart.  Whichever way it is framed the dispossessed will see it as an attempt to disempower them after they voted the wrong way in the first referendum.Important though it is, there are in my view bigger issues concerning us all than Brexit.  The choice we were given is whether we preferred to be exploited by the EU or by another bunch of capitalists whose own financial interests would be better served by withdrawal.  The whole Brexit debate is an establishment turf war, and I'm amazed at how animated ordinary people on both sides of it have allowed themselves to become.

Phil Andrews ● 2611d

Seems a waste of time when not all BRITISH ex pats are allowed to vote yet. People wanted out even if their jobs go. They dont care about details they want out. America will take care of us with a good trade deal they tell me. So there we are.

Nicholas Beard ● 2611d