Forum Topic

Another one bites the dust

Can someone tell me if there's a plan to obliterate every old building in Brentford?O'Riordan's Tavern is to be demolished and replaced with... wait for it... new-build flats. Because, obvs, there's a shortage of those in the area. And, as we all know, they're in very high demand.Is it really beyond the imagination of a developer to take a tired (but pretty) building and give it a little TLC? I realise that it was not viable as a boozer, but I know a couple of people who live in old converted pubs - and they're stunning dwellings. Of course, it's much easier to bulldoze and put up an undistinguished bit of pre-fab horror which will have a shelf-life of - say - 25 years before it'll want tearing down again, but really? That's the best they can do?By and large, the people planning, designing and making decisions about our area don't live in it - it's easy to trash something if you don't have to look at it on a daily basis. And, as I've said before (to deaf ears), it takes a moment to demolish a building, but in that moment years, decades, centuries of history is consigned to the dustbin. What replaces it is very seldom worthy of praise. (Anyone remember a certain D J Trump demolishing the Bonwit Teller building in Manhattan and taking the beautiful bas-relief sculptures with it? It's not a million miles from this.) It still beggars belief that - at the very least - the Barclays and Post Office facades could not have been saved and incorporated into a new development. It's been done before, many times, and successfully too. Significantly, the old Wilson & Kyle building featured in a Guardian article about derelict buildings. I've long said that if it had been located in Shoreditch or Hackney, it would have been refurbished and given a new lease of life as achingly hip flats or workspaces. But here? Too much to ask. Much better employed as a billboard before it's flattened.I'm afraid that some committee's decision to throw around a couple of swimming pools-worth of sky blue paint, picking a funky sans-serif font and labelling something a 'project' does not inspire confidence or engender civic pride. It's patronising. Especially when they construct a watchtower too brutal for even the Korean DMZ, without planning permission - or shame.So now it's goodbye to quirky, pretty little O'Riordans, part of the landscape since 1841 - and hello to... well, more of the same. Lucky us. Lucky, lucky us.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2361d56 Comments

TracieI completely disagree with your assessment of Trimmer. It is more or less exactly as it was in appearance. Cleaned up, and with a door where one of the side windows used to be and a french door invisible from the street. I will leave others to come to their own conclusions.No, I shouldn't KNOW everything that is going on. There are about 17,000 residents in Brentford ward any of whom can email, phone or meet with me. There are 35 listed buildings in the ward and about as many on the local list. And I'm not blaming anyone because whoever it was was acting in good faith, trying to protect our heritage. I'm delighted when people alert me to issues. It's just a fact that on one occasion I was misinformed, no big deal.There are a lot of issues for people round here and development is just one of them. People have problems with housing, benefits, poverty, crime and ASB, parking and parking tickets, schools, potholes, neighbours, noise, street cleaning, bins, events in parks and 100 other things and I endeavour to help them with all of these.If I thought people were a 'massive inconvenience' I wouldn't bother engaging with them on various social media, residents groups, doing a weekly blog, cycling regularly around the ward and happily talking to people who want to engage with me. I have been instrumental in the set up of a Friends of Waterman's Park Group and tried (and so far failed) to get a friends of Carville Hall Park and a Haverfield estate residents association going.We will never agree about regeneration, which is why I said I wouldn't comment on the other stuff in this thread.I live here, love the place and do my level best to improve it. The Brentford regeneration was already in train when I became a councillor so there's no point in me carping about it, even if I thought it was a bad thing, which I most certainly do not. I have plenty of beefs with developers and I'm not shy about putting them across, but I want this to succeed and with the right spirit, it will.

Guy Lambert ● 2352d

Copied from the front page of ChiswickW4.com - the question - already posed by someone, is why on earth Hounslow Council isn't developing these sites for social housing, instead of possibly/probably more unaffordable 'affordable housing'?Publicly owned areas specified for affordable housingComment on this story on the forumA number of small publicly owned sites in Chiswick are being made available to small developers, housing associations, and communities for affordable housing.The sites, mainly in Turnham Green ward and Chiswick Riverside ward can be seen on the GLA website and are for Registered Providers who can submit a bid for these sites and demonstrate what could be achieved.The Chiswick Riverside batch (above) includes sites at The Lindens, Quinton Court, Spencer Road. The batch of three Small Sites within the Chiswick Riverside area of Hounslow is available on a 250-year lease, subject to planning.The sites in the Turnham Green ward include land on the west side of Garth Road, Chiswick, W4 4QL; Land to the west of Gunnersbury Close, Chiswick, W4 4AH; Land at Oxford Court, Wellesley Road, Chiswick, W4 4DJ.Both areas are roughtly 0.5 acres and proposals need to be submitted by 27 September 2019. Hounslow Council will then assess any submitted bids.Once a successful partner is selected, consultation with local councillors and residents will be conducted prior to any planning application being submitted. This will be done in partnership with the Council and a Registered Provider.If the sites are deemed suitable for development and are approved through a full planning process, they will contribute to the 5000 pledge to provide more affordable housing in the borough.

Vanessa Smith ● 2352d

Dear all - Thank you, once again, for your responses. I apologise for not having written sooner, but a bout of screaming sciatica has kept me away from the keyboard. I restricted myself to phone-based online shouting which, given its speed, responsiveness and loading issues, doesn't favour this site. Back is now on the mend - poor you!Vanessa - it is massively irksome that the defence of our environment falls upon the residents, who are ill-equipped with time, cash and clout to make the impact they could - I applaud your endeavours regarding the allotments. I understand our elected representatives' desire to remain impartial in these matters, however the lack of tangible support speaks volumes about where loyalties lie. It's deeply disappointing. (In the same breath, granting an organised grass-roots residents' organisation two whole minutes to have their say at a public meeting is nothing but a bloody disgrace.) NV - that is extremely gracious of you. The funny thing is that I do not think that O'Riordan's is a building of spectacular note, however it does possess character, history and a certain charm; god knows, that stretch of the High Street lacks any of those. For that very reason it remains important as a point of principle, although I don't think that will make the slightest bit of difference to its fate. I visited the VicSoc site and don't hold out much hope for their input, but thank you very much for contacting them - it will be interesting to see what they might have to say. (Another disappointment was in their 'publications' section - the entire 'Care for Victorian Houses' series of booklets is out of print. I'd have had those, since we need to do a bit of work on the hovel.)Councillor Lambert - oh, Councillor Lambert!  First, yes... the Trimmer building is still standing and we can only give thanks that it didn't fall prey to arson or an 'accident' with the old wrecking ball. If you played a part in its preservation, then a gold star and a merit badge are rightfully yours. This doesn't, however, detract from the fact that the Trimmer building 'as is' is far removed from the Trimmer building 'as was': it looks as though it's made of Lego, a Disney-esque simulacrum - now with bi-fold doors.As I've said before, I am aware of your diligence in responding to posts on this forum, and the time you take to do it, so credit where it's due. However, (if you remember) I wrote that 'Legitimate questions are met with evasion, defensiveness, impatience and exasperation' - and this brings me to my second point - which, I'm afraid, you have just proved. Councillor Lambert, you are an elected representative, a public servant. No one forced you to stand. We, the electorate, put you and your colleagues into council to represent us. In this context, 'I won't comment' doesn't wash. Neither does blaming forum members for misinformation regarding the works going on at the Trimmer site - surely you should KNOW what took place there? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd have thought that councillors representing the wards affected by all this redevelopment would be pleased that residents gave a damn, cared about what was going in around them. Or are we just a massive inconvenience?  No one could argue that Brentford didn't need a leg-up, but the redevelopment that has been approved does not respect the area in any way and - I am absolutely certain of this - will fail in its superficial objective to regenerate the area. I say superficial, as I think everyone knows what's actually at the core of all of this - and it isn't the well-being of the residents.Successful urban regeneration is invariably organic, and comes from people - yes, people - adopting an area, creating homes and businesses and attracting social and retail infrastructure as a consequence. The imposition of a planner's grand scheme (looks gorgeous on paper until - you know - people come and ruin everything) does not translate well in the real world. Thousands of flats are being built - for whom, precisely, are they intended? The existing blocks are not full and nothing will attract anyone to the area until there is something resembling an actual 'area'. Leaving a town centre with half a High Street, no supermarket or post office, half-inhabited apartment blocks and precious little policing, all in the shadow of Stalag Luft III, is not the action of a council that cares about its residents. Even with the Ballymore and L&Q horror shows pending, it will be years - YEARS - before anyone finds out whether the great experiment, the Brentford 'Project' has actually worked. (Should you be interested, I could save you a lot of time with that answer.) We've come a long way from discussing the fate of a scruffy little pub sandwiched between apartment blocks. It hardly matters any more, since the outcome is pretty much a given. What does matter is that our neighbourhood isn't ours. Our hopes, wishes and opinions count for very little. It remains in the balance as to whether it's a place where I want to continue living. And that sucks, because - until now - I've never enjoyed living anywhere as much as here.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2353d

Tracie,As Vanessa has pointed out, I only involved myself in this thread when A N Other brought up an issue that as you correctly say was rather off tangent, but which, due to its insinuation, justified a response from myself.This is inevitably going to come across as arrogance, but to some extent you should appreciate the fact that I do post on these forums, because as a planning professional I can provide the expertise and legal basis on issues that are being discussed.  I can't help the fact that sometimes what I post isn't what people want to hear.  As I've said many times I've got nothing to gain from engaging on these forums, and largely the only reason I do is to sometimes set matters straight so that people might understand the planning system better.  It's like when I was recently approached to assist objectors to a scheme in Ealing and as part of my research I read over 900 objections, of which a good 875 raised points that aren't material planning considerations and thus will carry no weight whatsoever, despite all the time and effort put into them by the authors.  Had that time been spent seeking out a professional view, as fortunately 1 person known to me had the foresight to do, those objections might have actually carried some weight.Indeed, with the O'Riordan's proposal, although the applicant has tried to do so, in my experience it is very hard to successfully demonstrate that a public house is no longer financially viable when it is still actively trading,  which is why you'll often see pubs shut for 2 years or so and then an application for redevelopment comes forward.  Indeed I've attended pre-app meetings with Officers from LBH on similar proposals when Officers have said that the Council wouldn't look favourably upon any such proposals until a pub had been closed and marketed for at least 1 year.  So if I was objecting to the O'Riordan's application that is the route I'd be going down.Now to me, in setting that out I'm being helpful, I have nothing to gain or lose whether the application is approved or not, yet there's always someone who seems unable to appreciate that.

Adam Beamish ● 2358d

I'll not comment on all of this thread but I will on Trimmer.Visually it is virtually identical on the prominent faces of the outside to what it was before, other than the inauthentic and flaked white paint is no longer present and the wire that hung inelegantly across the front has been removed. One of the side windows has been made into a door.'Before' is here:http://www.brentfordhistory.com/2013/11/17/st-georges-schoolroom/'After' is here:https://mr0.homeflow.co.uk/files/property_asset/image/3812/2264/272733i.pdfThere is, I think, a French door our the back where it is invisble from the road.I don't claim to be an architectural historian and I know Mike is a Historian who cares about heritage. As such he has a detailed knowledge of the more detailed internal and structural 'before and after'.According to the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, a pastiche is defined as: "a literary, artistic, musical, or architectural work that imitates the style of previous work.EG "His building designs are pastiches based on classical forms."This is not a pastiche. It is the original building reconstructed using largely the same materials in a near identical design.For me I think we now have a viable building (the developers have reportedly taken a bath as a result of strenuous intervention by the council in partnership with Historic England) which fulfils the brief very well as regards the impact on the streetscape and this compares with a building that had been derelict for years and was beginning to fall down. When this happens to listed buildings they often find themselves most unfortunately destroyed by fire or some such catastrophe. This one survives.

Guy Lambert ● 2358d

Sincere thanks to all who have responded. Other than a slightly peculiar segue into greasy chicken and greasier palms (which should really have been taken elsewhere), this discourse has unearthed some interesting opinions and insights.The original premise of my post involved the proposed redevelopment of the O’Riordan’s site, however that premise has, unavoidably, broadened into the issue of Brentford’s redevelopment at large. First, the key take-away: structures belong to the owner of the land upon which they are built. The owner of the land upon which O’Riordan’s is built can, within the strictures of planning, demolish and rebuild anything they wish. By that token, it’s pretty safe to assume that O’Riordan’s is a goner. Who’d a thunk it? (Mike Paterson’s observation that, kept as a pub, O’Riordan’s would have ideally located to take advantage of the new stadium is a good one. It hadn’t even occurred to me but, then again, I’m not a football enthusiast.)That leads - neatly, I feel - into the question of planning permission itself; why are these permissions being granted? I’m not talking about small domestic extensions which don’t make much impact upon their front elevations (additionally, show me an historic house where alterations and additions haven’t been made), rather these grand, sweeping changes which denature an area and rob it of its essential character. It’s often hard for householders to gain permission for small extensions. Why is it so much easy for a process to run roughshod over history, the feelings of residents and those who have to live with the consequences? It’s retina-burning streetlighting and wheelie bins spoiling the appearance of terraced houses all over again. Of course it’s more expensive to restore rather than replace, but our communities are very much the poorer for it. In truth, I don’t see a family moving into a Brentford new-build and remaining in the area for 150 years, as is the family history for some current residents. The criticism that these developments create a ‘dormitory’ environment is a sound one and the lack of infrastructure in the form of shops and facilities would support this. (I’ll be interested to learn which retail outlets populate the available spaces when the time comes.) There seems to be little in the way of permanence in these blocks of flats and really does little to create community, however much communal tai chi is thrown into the mix. My dismay at the proposed loss of the High Street’s Barclay’s and Post Office façades is clearly another case of one person’s definition of ‘merit’ victorious over another’s. The Guardian’s ‘Derelict London’ piece also featured the Cinematograph building on Shepherd’s Bush Green. Demolition has commenced, however, the façade has been preserved and will be integrated into a new structure, although the decorative terracotta side panels have, sadly, gone. The developers are, apparently, committed to replacing these with exact facsimiles. For many, it’s not an ideal outcome, but it shows willing. It adds up to the notion that conservation and/or listing is entirely toothless as, on a case-by-case basis it can be overturned by approval from a planning committee. There’s a great deal written about contextual design and development but this is, I believe, weasel. How, precisely, does the south-side development contextualise itself? The Goddard’s building? By that token, it could be argued that the context for O’Riordan’s redevelopment would be its architecturally undistinguished neighbours. That’s lowest common denominator-think of the dreariest sort. In other matters: -NV Brooks – I am familiar with Gavin Stamp (there’s a lovely piece about him on the Bible of British Taste website) and the Nooks and Corners column. I think you make a very valid point regarding the lack of comment from VicSoc. Does anyone local engage with them? Would it make a difference? (Although if World Heritage/Historic England intervention can’t make a dent, what hope anyone else?) I may make inquiries.Adam Beamish – I’m never disappointed by the way that you manage to make every thread in which you participate all about you, your good works and your propriety. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. Good man!Incentivising is not a sin. I just wish that incentives were given to people who might, conceivably, add something to the area. As it is, independents go arse-up, while the Colonel’s eleven secret herbs and spices live to fight another day. As I mentioned some time ago, the Grosvenor Estate’s incentive scheme has created some fantastic places to shop, run by people who would never have believed they had the funds to open in Belgravia. Lots to think about there. Councillor Lambert – I’m afraid that I must agree with some of the other posters; I watched with horror as the Sarah Trimmer building was dismantled. It may have been ‘robustly’ rebuilt, however – visually - it is not what it was, merely an ersatz facsimile of the original. Unlike O’Riordan’s (or the redeveloped church nearby) it was a building of enormous cultural significance - why was it ever allowed to fall into such disrepair? It’s also a fair assessment to suggest that its ‘robust’ restoration was only carried out in the hope of gain from development and it’s absolutely right that planning applications for multi-occupancy conversion were turned down. It deserved (and still deserves) better. Your observation regarding the Brewery Tap versus Rye on the Water is disingenuous. The Tap’s future has been in question for years and that uncertainty doesn’t encourage maintenance or a spot of gentrification. ROTW is a nice addition to the area (and the source of a decent loaf – if you’re there in time), but until there’s a substantial increase in weekday footfall it is almost certainly running at the sort of loss that would put anyone out of business in short order. This, of course, presents another question… The issue, as ever, is communication that is far from transparent. The car park debacle is an excellent case in point. When residents are fed conflicting information regarding planning permission and permanence, can you really blame them for grasping at facts which may be gleaned from less than impeccable sources? It's not a rumour mill, it's a lack of clear facts. Legitimate questions are met with evasion, defensiveness, impatience and exasperation. I know that you are exceptionally diligent in responding to threads such as this, but some of your colleagues let the side down quite horribly. You have to accept this.  I know it’s a cracked record, but this whole situation is a shambles. Poor old Brentford – what did you do to deserve this?

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2358d

It's all about how questions are articulated Raymond.  And I squashed the 'rumours' in my very first post on this thread but rather than just saying "right, thanks for that clarification" you're still going on about it.My fundamental point is simple.  In any aspect of life, if I believe an individual or an organisation is behaving improperly, I'll collect evidence to support my beliefs and I raise it through the appropriate channels.In my view, Councils don't do enough to protect their staff from accusations made by the public.  I've been on the receiving end of a fabricated complaint from a member of the public which if true would have certainly got me the sack.  It will always nark me that, even when that complaint was investigated and the evidence showed that the allegation was a complete fabrication, my boss at the time wrote back to the complainant and apologised that they had felt the need to complain.  Time and time again there are instances of Joe Public making wild accusations and claims whilst sat behind the safely of a computer screen, and without any evidence to back up those claims.  A good recent example of that is the outcome of the Pissarro's appeal in Chiswick, which immediately led to allegations of corruption.  It's pathetic, it's damaging to any credible objections the objectors may have had, and it's also potentially career ending for the individuals who are involved, be they a Council officer, a planning consultant like myself, or an Inspector acting on behalf of the Secretary of State.And it's also entirely counter-productive, because as we all know if people continually cry wolf then when there really is a wolf no-one takes notice, and furthermore it certainly doesn't facilitate better dialogue/relationships between the public and developers/people acting on behalf of developers.Perfect example - I was at committee not long ago and a neighbour, in his address to committee, made a similar inference about some kind of collusion between the Case Officer and myself/my client.  Until then I'd had a amicable relationship with that neighbour.  When permission was granted, he subsequently rang me up and said "oh well, you've won, now would you do me a favour ?".As I said to him, why would I or my client consider "doing him a favour" when he'd publicly inferred that something underhand had gone on ?.

Adam Beamish ● 2359d

I'm afraid I disagree Raymond. I think you have set off the rumour mill yourself. I talk to a lot of people from all walks of life in Brentford and I have never once heard tell of this, until your post.You are obviously well networked locally, so maybe you talk to entirely different people than (for example) the Brentford Community Council, Brentford Voice and The Brentford Chamber of Commerce. I engage regularly with them, and with various residents associations and the many local residents who write to me or have meetings with me.Not a single one of them has ever mentioned these 'inferences' which you mention. I would have thought that group would include most of those who might have a concern about this.If there is any truth in these rumours which you are either starting or spreading I would ask you please to substantiate them, or tell me where you heard them, because I think you are implying there are illegal or at least unethical practices taking place, presumably involving council officers and/or members. Of course, you could easily make a case for the council providing incentives for businesses to locate here but if this is happening I think it should be transparent. I would like to seek information and if appropriate an investigation by whomever is competent.You know where to contact me - or can easily find out via the Council website - if you wish to keep matters private. Unfortunately I have no means of contacting you, other than through this Forum.

Guy Lambert ● 2359d

Per Trimmer. Yes, you are right that the council turned down the developers plans several times and also put stop orders on certain activities and so on. Some of these were ignored by the developer and it has to be said that apart from one occasion (I think it was when the workers were tearing the roof off) LBH were very slow off the mark. The developers basically ran rings around LBH on many occasions. They ripped an old chimney out claiming it was a danger; they tore the whole roof off (not just the 1990s tiles - the whole thing); they removed a whole bunch of plaster work with I don't know what, AFTER a stop order from LBH - horrendous; they tore down two walls and severely damaged the remaining two - cracks everywhere. I have photographic evidence of a lot of this, much of it taken from the hotel next door. Like you, I visited the site but was not in a position to remonstrate with the foreman - I had no official capacity. The building was only in danger of collapsing because of the battering it got from the developers themselves. Oh yes, they made sure of that. Historic England couldn't care less and nor could the landowner, the Church of England. I know this because I contacted them personally. For LBH it was just one big hassle really. Yes, Guy, superficially it might LOOK the same, but it is simply not the same building. One of the most important heritage buildings of its kind in this country, here in Brentford. We had a duty of care. Instead, it was ruined.

Mike Paterson ● 2359d

Just finished 4 months working on a project in Liverpool. A city I had never been to for more than a few hours before. Probably the smallest of my examples, Manchester and Oldham are probably better examples.  Halifax as well. Took a lot of looking around over weekends not much else to do unless one loves shopping centres..Not..For Liverpool, there are some parallels, a lot of dereliction and some awful redevelopments. But there is now a clear move towards renovating the best of what is left of it's heritage buildings, most of which is derelict and in Liverpools case, very little left, But a new wave of renewal using the heritage as a basis and making it better runs across both the North West and North East and what has been done in Birmingham around the Canal areas - very similar to what Brentford has and certainly had is superb. Similar in Newcastle.As for the Pubs, the latest threats to these are typical developers ploys.  Just look what can be done with basket case pubs.  The Black Dog, a pub no-one in their right mind would go into for the last 30 years. and the Brook, another tiny pub that seemed to have no viability and attraction whatsoever. Look at it now. The impossible achieved even though a same round has yet to cost the same each time!!plus The Express Tavern, The Griffin and the Royal Horseguardsman, all these have one thing in common. Landlords and Ladies with spirit, ability and know their markets and strengths. Hard work and enthusiasm and very much part of the communities in which they are located. The odds are stacked up on these local businesses, Parking restrictions with inexplicable extensions which make no difference to residents but damage local businesses away from the main strips.Business rates which risk viability and sustainability, and older landlords for whom the hard work keeping the ball in the air is just becoming too much with too many odds stacked against them and no help forthcoming.Then there's the sweeteners that some new local businesses are reported to be getting, KFC, Subway and Dominos and one or two others. What is that all about? Is it a level playing field one wonders?

Raymond Havelock ● 2360d

Here's my two penn'orth - necessarily circumscribed as I'm on the planning committee and if I make my mind up before the meeting I will lose my right to vote.First, Sarah Trimmer: the council notified Historic England that the building was in peril and had it pencilled in to the 'Heritage at Risk' register. Planning refused umpteen planning applications to turn it into three, then two flats. Stop orders were served or threatened at various points, and I personally visited site and remonstrated with builders whom I had been told (wrongly) by posts on this site were acting outside planning permission.  It has been rebuilt using almost entirely original bricks and in its original format as an undivided space. The roof is mainly composed of recovered tiles from the previous roof (however the roof had already been replaced in the 1990s). Having been in danger of collapsing it is now robustly rebuilt and should last for another couple of hundred years, and visually it is substantially as it was before it was rescued. I accept absolutely no criticism for this.Large parts of Brentford are in conservation areas with development severely restricted and often unpopular planning restrictions. At least two pubs (the Bricklayers Arms and the Pottery Arms) have been converted to residential: when I first moved here I was frustrated at not being able to get into what was obviously the Pottery Arms for a pint, so authentic does it look. The Beehive, Magpie and Brewery Tap (and others, I think, without checking) are protected by local listing. As to W&K, I would question whether Raymond has ever been to Liverpool, near to where I grew up and where my father had his business. Of course, a couple of wharves near the Pier Head have been preserved alongside the 'Three Graces' and some other listed buildings but the rest of the centre in and around the World Heritage site has been redeveloped and there's not much there that predates the 1980s. The excrescence known as 'Liverpool One' has completely changed the character of the city centre, for the worse in my opinion! Large chunks of the rest of Liverpool, including parts of the city centre, are semi-derelict like much of Brentford south of the High Street has been for decades. Much else has been flattened and replaced with modern blocks of varying distinction.Finally O' Riordans. I actually agree there is something to be said for the building - not that it is any great shakes in itself, but it has a certain charm - and I like that it breaks up the modernity of that stretch. However, the landowner is the landowner and as a planning authority we have to consider whatever is put forward as a potential development in accordance with planning law, like it or not. And planning law contains a 'presumption in favour of development' unless there is a compelling reason to reject for breach of the London or local plan or some other powerful reason. The planning committee is at liberty to refuse, of course, and we may well do so but we have to consider the law and what is likely to happen on any appeal, so we are reluctant to refuse on purely subjective or aesthetic grounds which generally seem to have little weight with Inspectors. Whether O'Riordans could be viable as a pub I don't know. I went to Rye on The Water twice today, with different people who wanted to see it, for a breakfast coffee and a pre-lunch drink and observed that, despite having what are the same access restrictions as the Brewery Tap, it was packed out both times. BY contrast the BT was closed at breakfast time and as far as I could see had very little trade at lunchtime. The bin store door was hanging open and had spillage that appeared to be months old on show - not all that appealing. O'Riordans also does not look appealing (was even less so when the river view in the side alley was blocked off by the O'Riordan's landlord erecting an unauthorised black hoarding across the road, which took me and LBH lawyers an age to get removed, and it would be legitimate to question whether the owner was working as hard as he might to establish a prosperous pub business.As I said at the top, if this comes to committee we will consider it in accordance with the local plan and planning law. Approval of the existing planning application is far from a done deal.

Guy Lambert ● 2360d

NV - Good for you - I'm impressed. That's quite something to have on your CV and I imagine that the communities you helped were very grateful for your involvement in preserving a part of their heritage.I have a knife in my kitchen. It's not smart, it doesn't come from a celebrated cutler and no one would ever suggest that it was an indispensable part of a serious batterie de cuisine. However, it fits my hand perfectly, takes an edge exceptionally well and performs any number of tasks with precision. It has no merit, other than making me happy. Merit's like that... it's subjective. The proposed demolition of O'Riordan's would be the thin end of the wedge, were it not for the fact that that point had been passed a long time ago. It's just another name in the roll-call of small, supposedly insignificant losses in the fabric of our area, which add up to the brutalisation you mention. From my corner, that is very much the basis for debate. It may be redundant as a pub, but it isn't redundant as a piece of history in that built environment. (I'd also guess that its fabrication involved much more thought, skill and care than what will replace it.) You may not like the building, or find it pretty: I do. We'll have to beg to differ.I'd like to think we're on the same side regarding what's happening to our collective home. From what you've said, it would certainly appear to be the case. But the loss of the small and mundane impacts on the whole and when all those small, mundane things which - to some - lack merit are gone, what we're left with looks as though it will be very much worse.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2360d

Nichols - Yes. That was a tragedy.NV - I feel you're being obtuse. I live in the St Pauls area, in a little Victorian cottage of no particular architectural merit. It does, however, have charm, and it's a pleasure to live around here. It would make me sad if a developer were to plough down these dwellings in the name of progress.My point has always been that, when it comes to urban regeneration, there is a need for architectural diversity and an honouring of the past. The Wilson & Kyle building wasn't especially attractive, but it has a certain grittiness and integrity, which is part and parcel of the curious place that is Brentford. Its place in Brentford's industrial past speaks for itself. The County Court is another good example. It is unlovely, but speaks of the time and purpose for which it was built. It has value.Georgian splendour, Victorian terraces, pre-war Deco, post-war modernism (and - say it - brutalism) and contemporary structures can, and should, co-exist. It's the patchwork that makes a place lively and interesting.O'Riordan's Tavern may not possess architectural merit on a grand scale, however it is an attractive building with a long history and is worthy of care. Its proposed replacement does not enhance or add anything to the area. To my eyes, the plans show a building of no merit whatsoever. You don't have to be Einstein to work out that TW8 was one of the last areas in London to offer riverside land at relatively affordable prices, something for which developers were desperate. How lucky for them that there was a council ready to grant almost anything in exchange for cash and a blind eye willingly turned to both the aesthetic and social ramifications of their plans.It's not regeneration - it's vandalism.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2360d