Forum Topic

Election?

Can anyone from Labour explain why your MPs abstained last night given the opportunity for a general election which would kick out the hated Tory government and elect a massively popular Marxist led government of national unity?

Andy Riley ● 2172d25 Comments

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Philippa Bond ● 2167d

Godwin's Law

Andy Riley ● 2167d

Did you watch The Rise of the Nazis on BBC2 last night?How to lose your democracy.https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00084td

Philippa Bond ● 2167d

Did you watch the debates from 1975 to which I referred?

Andy Riley ● 2167d

Andy Riley ● 2167d

Well, Tony Benn, Edward Heath and more recently the Swiss type of referendum are water under the bridge - we're stuck with what we've got.  Chaos and muddle.

Jennifer Selig ● 2168d

Referendums - a thought:Switzerland - a country that has many referendums also has proper rules."Any citizen or organisation that collects a defined number of signatures can demand that a referendum be held. The exact wording is drawn up by civil servants and constitutional lawyers in discussion with the proposers so that voters know precisely what they are being asked to agree to.It is even permitted to proposed a motion to strike down legislation recently approved in parliament. This ingenious balance between direct democracy and representative democracy has the enormous benefit that legislation for significant change is couched in moderate terms for fear of subsequent rejection by the people. Under such a system, the Brexit vote wouldn't even have reached the starting line."

Vanessa Smith ● 2168d

And Mr Grant's tweet is a model of reason?I know pro leavers who can articulate their concerns about the EU. I suspect that as the strongest arguments revolve around concepts of sovereignty and nationhood many others find it difficult to express themselves - perhaps because these ideas have been rendered toxic by decades of globalist rhetoric.  For a standard of debate that far exceeds our current shouty shambles I suggest watching the Tony Benn and Roy Jenkins in Panorama and the Oxford Union debate with Peter Shore and Ted Heath from 1975. Both available on YouTube.(Thanks for using capitals - it makes your points so much more persuasive)

Andy Riley ● 2168d

How much longer do we have to negotiate a Leave with a DEAL?  oR do we just cancel the Leave option altogether and go back to the EU cap in hand?

Jennifer Selig ● 2169d

It is not a one way choice, The EU would, I am sure, rather we cancel Brexit and all the headaches it creates. How welcome do you think we would be outside the EU creating all sorts of problems for everyone? The damage so far should not be exacerbated by leaving without a deal.

Christopher Gillie ● 2169d

WE get his message loud and clear.  It doesn't answer how the EU now views the UK.  It can hardly be favourably after all this mess, prevarication, dithering, in-fighting and general lack of clarity, decision and leadership.  The EU can't now know who they're supposed to be dealing with!  Total cock-up!

Jennifer Selig ● 2169d

Interesting article in The Observer about a Cheshire constituency and how the Tories there felt about the 'purge' and Boris etc. One went on about the 'rebels' being traitors' (give me strength) and 'letting the side down'. Most - and this is incredible - 'express the belief that Johnson is doing a good job in the circumstances'.The one thing that united them all was 'an increasingly desperate desire to leave the EU as soon as possible. ALTHOUGH FEW CAN ARTICULATE THE NATURE OF THEIR ANIMUS TOWARDS THE EU.' which is what is common - none of the died in the wool Brexiteers can tell you why they are so against the EU. You get various tripe like taking back control (courtesy of one Dominic Cummings) and parliament being sovereign (which it is doing a good job of now) although curiously they seem to be going off that idea rapidly. For a real humdinger of criticism see a Tweet by Hugh Grant:“You will not f--k with my children’s future. You will not destroy the freedoms my grandfather fought two world wars to defend. F--k off you over-promoted rubber bath toy. Britain is revolted by you and you [sic.] little gang of masturbatory prefects,”

Vanessa Smith ● 2169d

One big headache (amongst all the others) will the EU really welcome us now?  I know they want to continue exporting to the UK, we're a big market for their goods  but with all the dissent and disaffection, we could be a thorn in their sides.  Under Ted Heath's government, I voted for a Common Market (purely a trading arrangement) but I did not want or expect to be forced into a federalist Europe.  I think many felt as I did.

Jennifer Selig ● 2169d

Jennifer. The October the 31st date is just the start of the process, there will be many years of haggling over tarrifs, fishing rights, food standards, citizenship, nuclear regulation, data sharing, extradition, the list is endless.If you are fed up, then cancelling the whole thing is the fastest way of getting us out of this mess.

Christopher Gillie ● 2169d

Vanessa, there are more than 2 parties to choose from.

Christopher Gillie ● 2169d

Assuming of course the election is held before 31st October.

Andy Riley ● 2171d

Surely, when Labour win the election they can take no deal off the table.

Andy Riley ● 2171d

I think Labour have made it crystal clear they DO want a General Election when No Deal is off the table and at a time that suits them - why not? I really have agonised about voting Labour and had more or less decided I couldn't, but since the Johnson/Rees Mogg sh*t show I have concluded there isn't much option.

Vanessa Smith ● 2171d

Old and Ronald couldn't do any worse!Big worry is Labour have not once actually said how they  would deal with negotiations with Europe or indeed how they would do any better.They have been consistent in one thing, demanding a General Election then when it comes to the crunch they dive for cover.The irresponsibility of the whole thing from our government and parliament has done just one thing. Exposed the consequences of spin and half truths from all sides and the insane loyalties of ambition over duty on all sides. And this nation has a terrible history of incompetence at negotiations going back generations.  The Europeans ran rings round what has become a very weak and contradictory nation.  We all are to blame for that because we all blame someone else.

Raymond Havelock ● 2172d

Old or Ronald?

Vanessa Smith ● 2172d

I've now got to the state where I don't care what happens - I want this flipping Brexit thing over and done with - JUST GET ON WITH IT  The country and its peoples need certainty after years of in-fighting and indecision. I do however draw the line at Corbyn or Macdonald.

Jennifer Selig ● 2172d

Also BoJo could change the date from mid October to early Nov. thus getting no real over the line. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/prime-ministers-powers-over-election-date

Neil Chippendale ● 2172d

Because if Benn bill doesn't gain royal assent and parliament is prorogued we will leave without a deal, irrespective of whether there's a general election...

Adam Turner ● 2172d

Indeed, but surely an election would focus on stopping no-deal Brexit and additionally give us the chance to kick out the Tories and end austerity as well as electing a popular anti no-deal Marxist led government of national unity. What's not to like?

Andy Riley ● 2172d

Joke:'Ask me why I'm so good at telling jokes.''Why are you so good at telling ('TIMING!') jokes?'

Anne England ● 2172d

Because they want the no-deal Brexit bill to gain royal assent so it is law before parliament is prorogued, and before election campaigns take over everyones attention. Everyone seems to have gotten giddy about a general election when the issue is still no-deal brexit.

Adam Turner ● 2172d