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Tracie,I've just gone back through my various contributions to this thread, and the bulk of them (bar my response yesterday) contains lengthy points about the wider planning policy context and limitations of the associated legislation, and how both affect decisions.  Inevitably I share some personal experiences or views in the course of doing so, but there's no "me me me" here.I simply don't like it when people, whoever they are and whatever the subject, make things up, be it about me or anyone else.  Like your claim that I'd never encountered dodgy dealings.  That made it about me, and because it was totally inaccurate it generated a reaction.  Silence would have tacitly implied you were correct.Not a remotely defensive response I should add, more providing examples of some of the 'dodgy' behaviour I have come across, just to show that there's no suggestion on my part that everyone is whiter than white.  All I ever try to bring to these forums is a broader awareness of the planning policy or legislative context, and yes, from a detached perspective - whether you or I agree wih it or not when planning decisions are made on appeals by independent Inspectors, that Inspector is purposely chosen on the basis that they don't live close by etc., so just because I don't live in Brentford anymore is entirely irrelevant.Indeed, that's another example of you, not me, being the one posting about me, rather than about the subject matter.I set out a detailed appraisal of housing issues within the capital at the moment, how the housing targets within the London Plan don't meet identified needs, how authorities on the fringes of the capital can't meet their housing land supply targets, resulting in new Local Plans identifying green belt sites for housing and so forth.  I then happened to end that post by providing a short personal view that I don't share the 'fondness' for the capital that many people do.  You seized upon that (rather than the many preceding paragraphs) as the basis for a post suggesting I was advocating everyone move out of London.  Again, you were making it about me, which I most certainly wasn't.We're all human, we all make mistakes, we all say the wrong things, it was harsh and unreasonable of me to call you a fool and a liar earlier - my patience ran out.  The 'test' of anyone is whether they make a mistake or not, it's how they deal with making a mistake.The advice I always give to objectors to a planning application is to keep their objections credible and not undermine them by making wild or unsubstantiated allegations or claims that they can't back up.  Because, one an objector goes down that route, any points within their representations might might otherwise be wholly valid and credible become tainted.  And to me the same applies here.  Personally, I couldn't care less whether I am popular or unpopular on these forums or in 'real life' - it's unlikely anyone who is sensitive to being liked or disliked would ever choose a career in planning.

Adam Beamish ● 2020d

‘So don't make yourself look stupid by twisting my posts’What a charming reply. Thank you so much for that.Had you read my post without jumping in with a knee-jerk response, what I was actually saying (to Mr Iddon, I should add) was that there was no point in continuing with the ‘financial impropriety’ line; however peculiar matters may appear, there is no evidence to suggest that palms have been greased. Moreover, I have never pointed a finger, nor directly impugned the integrity of any individual - although plenty of others have. My post was intended to close down that line of discussion (albeit with tongue firmly in cheek), something you resolutely failed to recognise. Nul points to you, sir. Also, please don’t make the mistake of assuming that I’m some sort of jenny-come-lately. I have lived in this area for 50 years and have used and participated in NeighbourNet websites/forums for around 20 of those. I am extremely familiar with your posts. To remind you, the point of this thread is not about whether I, personally, object to the Morrisons site development (although my feelings are abundantly clear), but that L&Q has been reported to be having second thoughts regarding a number of sites slated for development. In case you don’t recall it, I’ll give you the quote again: -'In the light of reduced demand and increased costs, particularly for fire safety measures. L&Q are now reviewing their extensive portfolio of development sites'I found this rather interesting and thought I’d put in a word regarding a scheme which is exceptionally unpopular amongst Brentford residents. It’s a bad plan for a whole raft of reasons, not least that in the frenzied scrum to build on every last square metre of land in the area, little or no thought appears to have been given to the needs of the existing residents – and especially to the pupils and staff of St John’s Primary School. Please refer to the very beautiful, eloquent address given by the school’s headmaster a couple of years back (when Essential Living held the reins), regarding just how severely their quality of life will be impacted. I am not elderly, nor do I have issues with mobility. I can’t drive (and – obvs - don’t have a car) but can and do get on the bus to Chiswick or Shepherd’s Bush and shop for groceries (or, topically, pay a visit to the Post Office). I have the wherewithal to place an order for a supermarket home delivery, should I wish. (Although, is it not environmentally kinder to take a stroll across St Paul's Rec to the shops, rather than have a fume-belching lorry rock up outside your house?) Whichever way, many are not so fortunate. It’s these people who have been so very badly let down by this debacle – by, yes, the developers and the planners who, collectively, have not applied a modicum of common sense, vision or humanity to their decision-making processes.This is not a case of ‘not liking’ an answer you’ve provided. It’s about being dumbfounded that a bunch of educated, well-paid (incidentally - well done you!) professionals in their field should be so startlingly ignorant of the basic needs required for a community to function. If these concerns do not fall within their purview, then there is something truly rotten in the state of urban planning. So next time - please - take a moment and don’t make yourself look ‘stupid’.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2020d

So it seems as if the power of local authorities to determine the look and shape of a community is actually very limited and that the application and interpretation of planning regulations is what matters.  That's maybe not so surprising, for throughout history, the look of our buildings has often been the visible result of our regulations. Recessed 'Georgian' sash windows, for example, were an answer to the ban on protruding and overhanging woodwork that we all learned at school was such a fire risk in those days - until inflammable external cladding came along - but I digress!So even if we want them to, I doubt if local councillors can turn something down because it 'looks horrible' or isn't what they'd rather see built on a site. Local councils are also so financially and legally constrained that they can't really build anything for themselves and have to enter into 'constructive partnerships' ('dodgy deals' to some) with commercial developers to get anything built at all. Which is why I guess councillors go to Cannes each year to try and cajole the big developers into building some stuff in Hounslow, or over here in Ealing, or take no notice of them, Hammersmith is the place! It was easy to be misled by those early outline proposals for redeveloping Brentford, with lots of this and a nice couple of those and a brand new replacement that, without realising that we'd be totally reliant on some commercial entity coming along and actually building it at their expense. No wonder it took 20 years and a lot of people don't like it - unless they'd rather look at the same derelict site for another 20 years.Of course, what people really want is something nicer and better, but the present system just doesn't seem to allow it. Anyone for changing the system?! Bit late now!

Peter Evans ● 2021d

"Regarding the sordid topic of coin, we have had it on first-hand authority that - in 20 years of related work experience - Mr Beamish has never encountered any evidence of such a notion."Just go back to my posts on this thread Tracie and perhaps you'll acknowledge that what I wrote was nothing like what you imply above ?.If you had been a regular poster/visitor to these forums for many years you'd have read posts from me where I have openly discussed 'dodgy' goings on.  I know of one ex-colleague who  got offered a bribe of free flights.  Or the (almost 20 years ago) story of the ex-senior LBH Officer who allegedly rewrote a legal agreement to avoid a developer having to provide a community facility before magically going on sick leave and never returning (as reported in Private Eye etc.).I was in the middle of the Ombudsman investigation into the 'antics' of a minority of members of the Heston & Cranford Area Committee in the mid 2000s, when those members had a habit of overturning recommendations made by both myself and my team to take enforcement action, and one local resident made a formal complaint about their conduct, leading to an Ombudsman investigation and ultimately that Area Committee being stripped of its decision making powers for a year.  Not only was I interviewed as part of that investigation but provided the Ombudsman with the log I kept of every conversation I ever had with any Councillor (as I was required to do in accordance with the Council's procedures).And finally I 'walked away' from the public sector 12 years ago when a Director (who ironically subsequently received an  MBE for services to local government) tried to bully me into effectively covering up the failings of previous Officers at LPA by misleading members of the public.So don't make yourself look stupid by twisting my posts.What I'm saying and I always say is this.  Most planning officers at Councils and in the private sector are members of the Royal Town Planning Institute.  The code of conduct requires members to be truthful and honest at all times.  I, and the vast majority of planners I encounter, take that seriously.  After all, I've worked in planning for over 21 years now, and I'll probably work in the field for another 20 years.  So that's 492 months, and say on average my monthly income over that time is £3500...that's over £1.7 million.  How likely is that that a planner, be it at an Council or the private sector, is going to risk their career and future well-being by taking a bribe ?.  Of course, as in any professional, there's the odd bad egg, but they're very much in the minority.Naturally, because of the seriousness of allegations, if you or anyone else is ever going to post on public forums alleging that a specific developer or Council officer is corrupt, then it's obvious you must have the evidence to support that allegation.  It's the same as Sally Bercow and Lord McAlpine on Twitter.  I'm all for rooting out anyone who is corrupt, but a minority of Joe Public fails to engage their brain and thinks "hey, let's accuse so and so of something illegal on social media even though I have absolutely no evidence to support that allegation" and then when they get hauled through the courts for defamation they're like "oh, but I was just shouting my mouth off on the internet, I didn't really mean it".  There's never any thought about the potential consequences for the Officer who has made a professional recommendation which you just happen to disagree with.It's like you keep going back to the question about closing the only supermarket and not having an alternative facility available until the new one is built, I gave you a straight answer (i.e. planning legislation doesn't allow a Council to refuse an application on that basis) but, probably because you didn't like that answer, you've decided to overlook it.

Adam Beamish ● 2021d

Tracie,I'm not posting this as a defence of any Councillors as such, but it's very easy for 'Joe Public' to come on forums like this and criticise both local government officers and elected Councillors in the belief that they don't do enough on behalf of residents.The reality is that 'Joe Public' doesn't appreciate the confines Officers and Councillors have to work within when making planning decisions, as though if you were a Councillor things would be different.  Trust me, they wouldn't be, and if you tried to make decisions on the basis of 'non-material planning considerations' you'd soon find yourself removed from the Planning Committee.My job brings me into contact with Planning Officers every day of the week and regularly into contact with Councillors, as it has done for over 20 years, both as a Council Officer, for a housebuilder, for a multi-disciplinary consultancy and as a sole trader.As with any line of work such people are a mixed bag, but on the whole I'd say most Councillors do their best to try to balance the wishes of their constituents with the constraints of the legislation and regulations they have to make decisions within.  Which I admire them for, if Mrs. Smith comes to me and says "Adam, I want you to object to this development because I'm a NIMBY" I can say "sorry, there's nothing wrong with it in planning terms, so you're wasting my time" - neither an Officer or a Councillor can do that.The thrust of all my posts is basically that everything you say makes complete sense, but the planning system is disjointed and is likely to always be so.As for not living in London or Brentford, I still spend several days every month in the capital, indeed I'm sat in a hotel overlooking the British Library now.  I'm not suggesting for a minute that mass relocation is a solution, each to their own, many people I know of all ages love London for everything it has to offer and I lived in Brentford for over 16 years.It's just not for me now, and that's purely personal, by my own admission I'm very much my own person and tend to be happiest going against the grain, and for me when I'm in London I look at the crowded public transport, the 25 person deep queues in a Sainsburys Local yesterday lunchtime, the struggle to walk down the street because there's so many people and everyone is lost in their phones, and to me it's such a lemming like existence during the working week that the benefits don't outweigh the negatives.  But it's great for everyone that some people think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Adam Beamish ● 2026d

The fundamental problem with everything everyone has written on this thread is that we're told we need more housing because of insufficient supply.Ironically, despite all the development going on in London as a whole, the new London Plan sets a housing need target below what is forecasted.  Many planning authorities on the fringes of Greater London can't demonstrate a 5 year housing land supply, and therefore paragraph 11(d) of the national planning policy framework comes into play which states that planning applications for new residential developments should be approved unless the adverse impacts substantially and demonstrably outweigh the benefits (again because of this importance placed on providing new homes)You've got authorities like Guildford adopting (after independent examination) a local plan that includes losing areas of the Green Belt for housing allocations.  You've got the very real potential that the Tory SoS might get involved in the adoption of the London Plan by the Labour Mayor on the basis that the housing targets within the emerging London Plan are too low, with the SoS ruling that the targets need to be increased, which on the one hand will mean even more development within Greater London than has taken place in recent years, yet on the other this will go down well in traditionally 'blue' authorities on the London fringes which might then not have to lose their green belts for housing development.So, unless there's a seismic shift in planning policy and we're suddenly told that there's sufficient housing supply to meet the demand, nothing is going to change.I'm not saying that's right, I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and moan that Councils are in cahoots in developers and so forth, whereas the actual reality is that planning policy from national level downwards is basically all about providing additional housing no matter what.I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've worked in this field for over 20 years now, at Councils, as Taylor Wimpey's Planning Manager for the whole of Greater London, for multinational consultancies and for many years now both when I worked for such consultancies and now that I'm self-employed, for one of the largest fast food companies in world, and I haven't been to bed (or in bed) with any Council employees or developers in that time !.

Adam Beamish ● 2028d

Beautifully put, Mr Havelock. Brentford desperately needs somewhere where people can buy actual ingredients and cleaning materials, not just ready-meals and an emergency pint of semi-skimmed. Thinking about it, these amorphous supermarket proposals have been made solely with the future residents of the developments in mind, the assumption being that these small properties will be home to people who aren't especially interested in cooking, or will have their groceries delivered by van. This completely ignores the needs of Brentford's existing residents. The very notion of us being left without any provision for grocery shopping for a number of years is genuinely appalling. I would add that Morrisons also provides an extraordinarily valuable social function whereby the elderly and isolated can make some sort of vitally important human contact. I'm neither elderly nor isolated, but I still appreciate seeing familiar and friendly faces and the opportunity to say hello to customers and staff when I go there. Losing this is 'progress'? I don't think so.Still - when push comes to shove - all of this is irrelevant to developers, no matter how many pretty words they produce about regeneration and inclusion; money talks, cowpats walk. The only chance that these grim plans might not come to fruition is if L&Q decide that the game isn't worth the candle, rather as Essential Living did. If they do, what happens next? Sell on to another developer with deeper pockets? Offer to sell back to Morrison's, at a massively inflated price? Morrisons moves out and the site becomes derelict and a magnet for vandalism and anti-social behaviour? I have a fantasy; I win the Big One on Euromillions. One of my first actions is to offer L&Q (or whoever) over the odds for the site. It's an offer they can't refuse. Engage with Morrisons, retain the supermarket, parking and breathing space. It might even be an improved Morrisons, with a little café. (Sains in Chiswick got rid of their café, depriving the elderly and lower-income residents of somewhere to go and have a cup of coffee and a bun, a massive mistake. It's now an Argos pick-up point - yay.) I just hope that someone out there is listening and - more crucially - thinking. Real, actual, joined-up thinking about what's important and helpful for communities, both current and in the future. That's aimed at both developers and the council. Will there be any response from either? I doubt it.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2029d

A proper supermarket is vital to this town but no-one in administration seems to grasp that core principle.Promises of " a new supermarket' are not good enough. What kind of supermarket? A Costcutter? Sainsbury? Tesco Metro? Tesco, when they move to Gillete Corner, will be an insane place to head to, it will be more compact and the traffic congestion with a hugely reduced parking capacity at a major road junction will be nothing short of catastrophic.Nor will it have a fuel station which is it's single biggest USP.As for deliveries, increase it any more and we have blocked streets and traffic delays adding to pollution. And we have stopped that, fed up with below par produce, thawed items and stuff with short use by dates.  Walking to Morrisons instead foe all but the big shop is perfect. Even if I do prefer Sainsburys!Given this may end up the only full range supermarket which is up a hill from Brentford which will roll out all but the fittest of us cyclists, the necessity to shop by a vehicle is increased so there will end up being queues to park which in turn will jam up the main roads.The beauty of Morrisons is that it has an adequate car park but carries a good full range of provisions. Something that Aldi. Lidl and Costcutters along with the Metro style shops do not. Metro/Local chains are massively more expensive, Some items are more than double the main store price more akin to motorway service station prices. Are local people that affluent?  You can walk to it, it's the easiest most level area locally so cycleable, is easy to get to from 6 bus routes  and it is in the much heralded centre of this centreless town.An improved Morrisons with parking and a smaller lower level development would be ideal, that will only happen if Morrisons own the site.But the fault really lies with the kind of greed driven developers and the deals they strike in secret with authorities in places like Cannes.  Where only sycophantic controlled media have access and over time is putting in sucking council officers and elected members into their 'dreams'At the very least local lay people with no connections ought to be taken to these 'events' and allowed to monitor all that goes on.

Raymond Havelock ● 2029d

Good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.While there's something decidedly reminiscent of Shippham's paste about the shenanigans between Hounslow Council and various developers, this isn't exactly the right thread for it - Messrs Iddon and DeWet, I don't know whether your 'blahs' were aimed at me or someone else, but they're a bit sneery and unhelpful. It took me a while to appreciate the genuine goodness of Mozza's; it's a good supermarket (sometimes an excellent one) and the staff are lovely. I feel bad for them when they're overrun by louts nicking stuff. They don't challenge it enough, because they don't want to be clobbered or knifed and I don't blame them. Morrisons is an invaluable resource that needs support and investment, not neglect. The past few years of uncertainty have not helped.(In other matters, the wholly ludicrous notion of having a space shared between a mini M&S and one of the discount sheds was one of the most dismal displays of thoughtless desperation I've been unfortunate enough to encounter. Brentford NEEDS a full-service supermarket. There are local families needing to do proper shopping and I want to know that I can buy items I want when I need them, not pay 30% over the odds on a limited range (mini M&S) or wade through bargain scuba gear to find a limited, unreliable range of goods with questionable provenance (Aldi/Lidl/whoever). If that's middle-class privilege, shoot me.)The massive, over-dense development bubble has burst. Post-Brexit, who knows what's going to happen, but my money is on 'nothing good'. This area is choked with sites  - and enough is enough. I sincerely hope that L&Q will cease development on this site and that something can be done to encourage something that Brentford really needs, rather than the dogged pursuit of a plan that does nothing at all for an area that deserves so much better.

Tracie Dudley Craig ● 2030d