Forum Topic

Break-in

Just got home Enfield Road. Only out 45 mins taking my partner to hospital. Got home to find our back garden shed has been broken into. A specialized bicycle has been stolen along with other bits. This was done in broad daylight and they have scaled an 8ft high wall so there must have been more than one. Reported it to the police who frankly are not interested.So I have to ask, as Hounslow are about to raise council tax yet again. Why are we paying for a police force who don't give a monkeys

Robert Ayres ● 2004d50 Comments

What evidence do you have that they lack resources? How do you know they aren't wasting and squandering and mismanaging the money we give them? How do you justify the generous pay and pensions and perks awarded?

Steve Taylor ● 1997d

"I suppose the Mayor of London is responsible for the only police station closing in Bath."Nope. Don't be silly. Some other fools would be responsible for Bath and the others mentioned. The mayor of London is responsible for London. The clue is in the title. A new mayor of London would re-open the stations that mayor Kahn stupidly closed.

Steve Taylor ● 2000d

"Paris Opera retirement age is 42 so 50 in a stressful job like the police is not early." In Opera, voices go so 42 is normal. Footballers go earlier. Policing isn't stressful. Boring maybe. Loads of standing around in groups but not stressful. No reason why the older folk can't be given desk jobs if they can't take the pressure of being on the front line. The problem is that they don't need to work because the pension payouts are fantastic.

Steve Taylor ● 2000d

In the Paris Opera retirement age is 42 so 50 in a stressful job like the police is not early.

Nicholas Beard ● 2000d

You can obfuscate as much as you want. You can spin the ineffective Khan as much as you desire. We, I believe, were talking about the culpable failings of Khan and his minions NOT something happening in Bath, Lancashire or St. Albans. Guy, have you simply exhausted any cogent attempt to defend Khan and his budgetary mismanagement by moving the debate nationwide? Personally, I am interested in LOCAL issues, which, I would hope would be the priority for any LOCAL representative.

N V Brooks ● 2000d

Goodness it's boring reading endless Conservative propaganda.I suppose the Mayor of London is responsible for the only police station closing in Bath. And St Albans. And 24 Police Stations in the West Midlands. And 21 in Gloucestershire. And 24 in the Thames Valley area. And 11 in Lancashire. And the rest of the 600 that have closed across the country.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-station-close-shut-budget-cuts-police-federation-a8521501.html

Guy Lambert ● 2000d

"Unless central government restore some of the cuts in grant for police services"Nope. Nothing to do with central government. The Police need to manage their finances properly and stop being so overly generous with remuneration, perks, pensions, travel allowances and over-staffing.

Steve Taylor ● 2000d

"20000 to make up for retirement over the last ten years"Yep it is a shame that the retirement packages od taxpayers money were so lucrative that they could afford to retire at 50!

Steve Taylor ● 2000d

Seems a bit harsh to imply that the Police don't care. I am sure they do care, but lack resources.

Christopher Gillie ● 2000d

Most police station reception desks were/are staffed by civilian staff performing a largely administrative role.
The Met are currently recruiting more civilian staff for this role.

Nice attempt at spin but needed but a moment of research to dispel it. I would expect any council 'worth its salt' to be actively campaigning to retain a presence. Some however, appear content to point the finger at 'Tory cuts' as the overarching reason for poor performance in this and many areas.

N V Brooks ● 2000d

On of my favourite quotes is by Ken Clarke who said that he had more impact on the national crime figures as Chancellor than he did as Home Secretary. His point being that if the economy is doing well then crime figures go down regardless of what happens with policing. Police aren't a deterrent anymore - those days are long gone - sadly CCTV, razor wire, and claymores have taken their place, to the detriment of our neighbourhoods.

Gary Padbury ● 2000d

Where did you get those figures from please?

Paul Fisher ● 2000d

Unless central government restore some of the cuts in grant for police services I imagine about 140 more constables will be withdrawn from the beat to sit behind desks waiting for people to call in.The stations were closed because they were assessed by the police service to be a waste of resource.It's known as an efficiency saving.

Guy Lambert ● 2000d

Besides poilce we need another 20000 admin staff. Also another 10000 police on top of the 20000 to make up for retirement over the last ten years. This however is across the UK.

Nicholas Beard ● 2000d

"Where will the staff come from?"Well according to Khan there are 20,400 ex police roaming the streets looking for work so there are sure to be some takers. Although the generous pension and redundancy  payouts which have been awarded may deter many from needing or wanting to work again.

Steve Taylor ● 2000d

Where will the staff come from?

Nicholas Beard ● 2000d

He’s got my vote

Robert Ayres ● 2000d

“Conservative London Mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey would re-open the Chiswick Police Station if elected in May.The Conservative Party candidate this week said was to become the next Mayor of London he will reopen all 38 police stations which have closed their doors to the public since Sadiq Khan was elected Mayor in 2016.”

Steve Taylor ● 2001d

They wouldn't have had to cut policing posts if they reduced some of the generous perks. Interesting that they enjoy Police Pension Scheme 2015, which is considered to be among the best around.And how many private companies offer 30 working days holiday per annum and free public transport?  "Salary – New police constables receive a basic starting salary between £24,177-£30,369 depending on their force. You could also receive location allowances of up to £6,735. The basic salary of a police constable can rise to £39,150 plus allowances in line with Home Office guidelines.Leave – You’ll start with 22 days paid annual holiday, rising to 30 days a year with length of service. This is on top of public holidays and an average of at least two rest days each working week. You can also expect other forms of leave including maternity, paternity and adoption leave and the option of taking a career break of up to five years.Flexible working – The police service is an emergency service operating 24/7 and 365 days a year. However, it is always the intention of the police service to try and take your individual religious and cultural needs into account so you can fit your work around your personal commitments.Pension – When you start as a new police constable you’ll automatically be enrolled as a member of the Police Pension Scheme 2015, which is considered to be among the best around. This isn’t compulsory and you can opt out if you wish.Healthcare – Some police forces offer the opportunity to join a contributory private healthcare scheme. You will also benefit from free eye tests and glasses if you regularly use a computer.Travel – Depending on the force you work for you may be able to enjoy free local public transport whether you’re on or off duty.Financial services discounts – There are various partner organisations who work alongside the police to offer a variety of financial services including saving, investment and protection products, as well as discounts and subsidies. Many major High Street stores, retail outlets and other national organisations offer discounts and special deals to police officers. Most police forces also provide access to a number of subsidised leisure and sporting activities.Personal support and advice – You’ll have access to support through the Police Federation and staff support associations, who represent your needs. Each individual force will also have their own teams for occupational health and welfare and for those with caring responsibilities."

Steve Taylor ● 2001d

"So I suppose the 20400 police officers cut were because of IT advances"No, not at all - I didn't say that. IT was a part of it back when Theresa May was Home Secretary and she realised that many were redundant and many were lazy and the place was disorganised. The Police were told to clean up their act. They decided who would be redundant. They could have cut salaries and perks and pension contributions but they decided to reduce their numbers. There were thousands of spare police available to dance around / stand around during the ER demonstrations and there are dozens available to stand around at minor road traffic incidents. They just need some effective time management.

Steve Taylor ● 2001d

So I suppose the 20400 police officers cut were because of IT advances. Not sure whether our ward officers, cut by more than 50%, would agree with that.

Guy Lambert ● 2001d

What people fail to understand is that Central Government cuts funds when it sees waste, overspending, overpaying, disorganisation and inherent laziness within departments. These 'shake-ups' are needed to jolt the public sector into the reality of the real world. It happens continually in the private sector and people buck up their ideas, pull finger, and get their acts together but the public sector seem to think that they are hard done by and they whinge and whinge when they are asked to work a little harder. The people at the top in public sector jobs are generally  grossly overpaid and all public secor workers have generous pension schemes and holiday entitlements and other perks.The government cut the policing jobs because IT improved vastly and many jobs were redundant.Kahn simply makes a political issue out of everything instead of doing HIS job professionally.   

Steve Taylor ● 2001d

GuyI can see its no good asking you a straight questions. No wonder the Labour Party performed as well as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition in the general election when they have people like you in their ranks. As for your historical facts "oh when labour were in power things were better" what has that got to do with here and now ? bleating on about your version history is no good to your residents.Perhaps you or the dear leader  could enlighten us all on what plans you have to cut crime levels in Brentford

Robert Ayres ● 2001d

So, an exponential rise in staffing costs and the 'spin office' which could have funded at least an additional 600 police officers is acceptable then Guy is it? Sorry, but it's balderdash and closing ranks around an ineffective Mayor based on party loyalty rather than reality.
Your position, in this regard, has become very clear.

N V Brooks ● 2001d

Robert, no I'm afraid it's you and NV who are missing the point. The mayor has increased his funding for policing (from his share of council tax and a small fraction of business rates) by ~20%  whilst central government, which has always covered the lion's share of policing costs (from income tax, VAT, fuel duty, stamp duty, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, national insurance contributions, customs duties etc etc) has reduced their funding by 29%.This is what's driving the reduction in the police force and no amount of crying 'balderdash' makes a difference to the facts.Crime was gradually coming down during the years of the Blair/Brown era and that trend continued for a couple of years into Cameron before turning round. Pretty obvious why.

Guy Lambert ● 2002d

With respect Guy I think you're missing the point. Crime in Brentford is now getting very serious. In fact I posted a link on here showing the worst places within Hounslow for crime and Brentford is in second place. In case you missed it here it is again.https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/areas-youre-most-likely-mugged-17769314?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebarWhat we want from yourself and fellow Councillors is action not more of the same old stock answers ie:Its nothing to do with us, it's the Government's fault, it's nothing to do with the mayor because he's a member of our party we have to cover him etc. What we want is our elected representatives to stand up and say to the Commissioner we are giving you £242.13 from every council taxpayer in Hounslow and your service is not good enough sort it or we look for policing alternatives because we are paying millions for a service that does not work and is practically non existent for householders.

Robert Ayres ● 2002d

"However the fact remains perfectly clear that the reduction in police numbers is not to do with the Mayor or the GLA".
Balderdash.
Khan bears a great degree of responsibility for this by simply failing to prioritise the significant income of the GLA into areas that really affect Londoners. The increase in staff numbers in his own office and in the 'communications' hierarchy which has grown exponentially since he took office makes not one jot of difference to the average Londoner. The police personnel that this profligate mayor could have paid for, but chose not to, would make a significant difference.

N V Brooks ● 2003d

I was wrong in saying none of the council tax taken by the mayor goes for policing, but the £326 referred to covers other items like Fire services etc, and is but a small part of the total police budget, most of which comes from central government.As I have demonstrated, I am not an expert on the finances of the Greater London Authority and I do apologise for making a misleading statement.However the fact remains perfectly clear that the reduction in police numbers is not to do with the Mayor or the GLA but entirely to do with central government, which has presided over a cut in police of more than 20,000 officers.In the approx 5 years since I have been a councillor the ward policing team in Brentford has been cut from a sergeant, 4 PCs and 2 PCSOs to I think 1/3 of a sergeant, 2 PCs and 1 PCSO despite significant increases of funding from the mayor.

Guy Lambert ● 2003d

Check this out. https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/areas-youre-most-likely-mugged-17769314?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Robert Ayres ● 2003d

Postscript Just found out my Neighbor who lives next to the Lord Nelsonhad two bikes stolen yesterday morning as well. Also just received this from the next-door website : Katrin Woodhead, Little EalingSeveral garden sheds were broken into -Eastbourne Road-last week...3 in one night. Someone tried to take gas meters as well. It's ridiculous! Looking on the bright side with a Councillor who did not know his residents pay for policing in their council tax and a police force (if you can call it that) who don't investigate without CCTV we will soon not only top the rotten boroughs list for councils but crime too.

Robert Ayres ● 2003d

Yes so I understand and of course I would not want to infringe on their human rights. Their right to enter my property damage my property to steal my goods to cause me and partner distress and harassment to cause us to spend hundreds of pounds on CCTV and security measures we can ill afford to spend Yes their rights must held paramount. How dare people like me who pay their taxes and abide by the law expect these people to have their crime spree interfered with. Also I am of course so sorry for having to trouble the police who say no CCTV sorry Guv not worth our time investigating.

Robert Ayres ● 2003d

Wrong I am afraid.
https://fullfact.org/crime/police-officers-under-boris-johnson/

N V Brooks ● 2003d

No apology then councillor for misleading this forums readers?

Paul Fisher ● 2003d

As I understand Boris Johnson didn't put the allocation of money for thr police up when he was Mayor.

Philippa Bond ● 2004d

It is not 'laughable' to blame Khan for a significant proportion of the reduction in police numbers.
He has, by any measure, the budget to immediately increase police staff numbers (or at least get the recruitment embargo lifted) on an additional 600 officers by simply reducing the staff coats in the Mayor's office and his 'PR and Spin' office back to the level it was when he took office.
God knows how many officers could have been retained or recruited had he ever managed to get a grip on the profligate spending and 'budget overruns' within TfL.
Khan's position is indefensible.

N V Brooks ● 2004d

I have to say it beggars belief as each resident is contributing £329 each

Robert Ayres ● 2004d

Guy Lets deal in facts we pay from our Council tax £326.92 for policing. I would say this is not value for money Fact the police have lost control of the streets.Fact under mayor Khan the number of murders on our streets is at the highest ever recorded.Fact n 2018/19 the crime rate in London was 95.99 crimes committed per thousand people. Since 2015/16 the crime rate in the United Kingdom capital has increased in every reporting year, with the steepest increase occurring between 2016/17 and 2017/18.23 Sep 2019So Councillor why is our borough willing to hand over millions of pounds for a sub standard service.

Robert Ayres ● 2004d

OK some of the funding for police services is provided from local taxes.According to the Home Office figures, since Sadiq Khan was elected the Central government contribution to Met Police funding has gone up by about 3% in cash terms (down about 4% after inflation) whilst the locally funded share has gone up by around 28% in cash terms so I guess around 20% in real terms. But because the local element has always been a small top up, it still represents only about 1/4 of the total Met Police costs.Funding for the Met Police from Central government fell by 29% between 2010 and 2019 so blaming Sadiq Khan for the fall in police numbers is laughable!Source National Audit Office https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Financial-sustainability-of-police-forces-in-England-and-Wales-2018.pdf#page=6

Guy Lambert ● 2004d

Its amazing that we have to trust Hounslow Council with its finances when some councillors are still unaware where some of the policing budget comes from

Paul Fisher ● 2004d

I've been assuming that there is no shortfall in police numbers as they seem to have enough officers to visit and prosecute people who have said hurty things on Twitter. e.g. suggesting that men are adult male humans and women are adult female humans.Guy - do you support this use of police resources?https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/14/we-need-more-harry-millers/

Andy Riley ● 2004d

Hi GuyPerhaps then you can explain the following published byITNSIMON HARRIS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENTLondoners face another council tax rise to boost police budget by £30m. Credit: PALondoners are facing another council tax rise to pay for policing. Mayor Sadiq Khan is planning to raise his share of council tax bills by an average 12p a week from April 2020.The extra cash will boost the Metropolitan Police Service budget by £30m.But Mr Khan warned he could be forced to increase council tax bills even more if he fails to get additional funding for the police from the government..Almost 140 Londoners have died in violence this year including two victims of terrorism.'London's Violence Reducation Unit is leading our public-health approach to tackling the complex causes of crime and increasing the Unit's ongoing annual budget from £1.8m to £5m will allow it to invest in more projects and programmes to make crucial early interventions in a young person's life.' SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDONIn April 2019 the mayor increased his share of council tax, known as the precept, by an average 50p a weekCouncil tax bills in London are made up of contributions to City Hall and the boroughsThe latest proposal means the mayor's annual take will rise from £320.51 to £326.92 for the average Band D householdMr Khan also plans to allocate an additional £3.2m to City Hall's Violence Reducation Unit.London's Violence Reduction Unit is leading our public-health approach to tackling the complex causes of crime and increasing the Unit's ongoing annual budget from £1.8m to £5m will allow it to invest in more projects and programmes to make crucial early interventions in a young person's life.– SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDONLast updated Wed 18 Dec 2019

Robert Ayres ● 2004d

Guy, if the Metropolitan Police SERVICE is 'funded by central government' then why is Sadiq Khan increasing the precept ostensibly to pay to 'fast track' a further 600 police officers? You can't spin it both ways. The last person to try that will soon be tending to his Islington allotment far more often.

N V Brooks ● 2004d

Dear Robert ...you do realise you are required to put up notices to warn the critters about your defences?

Sarah Felstead ● 2004d

Nice bit of spin there GuyFron the Evening StandardLondon's mayor has nearly doubled a planned rise in council tax he says will raise £16m more to fight crime.A London household in Band D will pay £332 to City Hall next year, a 3.6% increase from £320.51 last year. In December Sadiq Khan proposed to increase on council tax by 2%.The fund will pay to fast-track an extra 600 police officers next year.The Conservatives said a £104m violent crime fund could be paid for by cutting unnecessary spending from the budget.Greater London Authority (GLA) Conservatives Leader Susan Hall said: "Mr Khan has the money available to put an additional 1,598 police officers on our streets - he is just complacently choosing not to."Sadiq Khan is fond of blaming the Government for London's sky-high crime rates, but our plan shows that this is nothing more than shameless buck-passing."

Paul Fisher ● 2004d

Sorry about your break in Robert. But the police force is paid for out of central government funds, not council tax, and it is cuts in central funding which have caused police numbers to fall so sharply since 2010, and the inevitable rise in crime that has resulted from this and other measures.

Guy Lambert ● 2004d

It is entirely a political point and standard Conservative distraction routine from the 20400 reduction in police force numbers since 2010 (see fullfact.org)The police force is funded by central government, not council tax, though Hounslow pays for a small team of Met police officers who deal with issues which are a special local priority (EG traveller camps)

Guy Lambert ● 2004d

Having CCTV put in today, Razor wire, Guard Dogs , Pungee sticks and Claymore mines to follow. Oh the joy of living in a society where low life vermin are allowed to wander our streets rob and steal with impunity and oh by the way we are in Hounslow paying more council tax to house them and to keep a police force who are never seen on the streets.

Robert Ayres ● 2004d

OWL CCTV watch might help you.

Sarah Felstead ● 2004d

So many cameras on houses these days, can you check if there is footage?  Hope you get them back.  What a worry.

Sarah Felstead ● 2004d

My sympathies Robert.
A question for the ineffectual Mayor of London who, had he spent less on his office and PR staff would have been able to pay for a fair few more police personnel.
It's not a political point, believe me, I am just sick and tired of the profligate waste at City Hall while essential service cuts are always blamed on others.

N V Brooks ● 2004d