Forum Topic

Masks

It looks like we got it wrong again. Masks may have help cut the spread of Covid19. As the uk is urged to issue masks.

Nicholas Beard ● 1958d24 Comments

It has become much more common for masks not being worn on the bus and train during my journey to work and home again and usually its the BAME community not wearing them despite their communities being told they are most at riskI was told by a driver on the 110 last week my mask was not high enough above my nose before he allowed me on the bus and I was then stunned when some passengers did not have wear one

Paul Fisher ● 1859d

Two weeks ago I unfortunately had to make very early emergency visit to West Middlesex Hospital with my youngest son, as only one person was allowed in with him, his girlfriend and I had to wait outside not far from the bus stop outside the main entrance.We were still there as staff started to arrive for the morning shift, the number of them that arrived wearing their scrubs was amazing, there are notices in the foyer saying this is not permitted. However, it got better - we had to go back again later to pick up a prescription from the pharmacy. On arrival at the main entrance we were given hand sanitiser, had our temperatures taken and were offered masks - although we were already wearing them. So you can imagine  how stunned I was a little while later - having a 45 minute wait for the prescription, I walked down to the shop near the entrance to see a woman shouting at the staff about this requirement. I walked back up to the pharmacy and a few minutes later this woman sailed past us, no mask, and stopping anyone in a uniform to harangue them. She proceeded to go in and out of various out patient clinics, and repeatedly shouted at staff, even accosting some poor souls waiting for their coffee and treating them to a barrage of nonsense. Having eventually disappeared, another woman then walked past us again not wearing a mask. I have since written to the Deputy Chief Executive and asked why their policies are treated so casually - especially at this time when you'd think things would be rigorously enforced, and rightly so. Two weeks and two e-mails later - no response. So no  - not surpised at what's happened at Hillingdon.

Vanessa Smith ● 1860d

Can anyone explain why when the supermarket has it's shopping hour for NHS and front line key workers that barely any wear masks?It better to err to prudence than not at all.

Raymond Havelock ● 1860d

Can someone explain why the bosses of Hillingdon hospital have blamed the outbreak of covid at the hospital and subsequent casualty shut down on staff failing to wear masks. When we are told they are not effective.

Nicholas Beard ● 1860d

I was speaking to a retired consultant anesthetist friend yesterday who had sat on a committee to consider the use of masks to control infection. He referred to a meta study that showed there was no evidence of their efficacy.This is borne out by the WHO current advice here:https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masksMy observations are that many people fiddle about with their masks, potentially moving pathogens from their hands into contact with their face.  I've seen people wear them around the neck and pull them up on entering a shop - pointless.This latest government gimmick seems to be pandering to the corona phobia they have unleashed and don't know how to control.  It is a gross infringement of our liberties.Of course it may be part of a cunning plan to stimulate rebellion by introducing ludicrous measures that many will ignore.Distancing is now officially old hat following yesterday's protest rally, march and riots in central London - promoted by media and attended by MPs.The best defense against pathogens is good hygiene, avoiding hugging strangers, and boosting your immune system with fresh air, exercise, sunshine and a good diet.

Andy Riley ● 1894d

Now we learn they are going to be compulsory on public transport. A bit late!

Nicholas Beard ● 1894d

If there has been one phrase used throughout this crisis that is guaranteed to raise my hackles it is "following the science".  Not that there is anything wrong with basing policy on sound scientific advice, but it has been used most cynically as a screen behind which to hide, and I'm afraid the government's scientific advisers have been rather too reluctant to call it out.When other governments were closing big sporting events, ours was telling us there was "no scientific evidence" that cramming tens of thousands of people tightly into confined areas was in any way conducive to spreading the virus.  Likewise our failure to conduct sufficient testing to be able to track the progress of the virus has apparently been "guided by the science", as has our inability to provide adequate protective equipment to frontline workers.  It is a catch-all cop-out which has promptly been found wanting each and every time it has been used.So it is with the wearing of masks.  It is true that they come with associated risks, in particular that they are incorrectly handled and that they can give those wearing them a false sense of security.  On the other hand it is now widely accepted that they do help to reduce the transmission of virus by those wearing them, which strikes me as a rather good reason for encouraging their widespread use.There is also the added benefit that seeing them being worn by others helps to reinforce the existence of the outbreak in the minds of those (and we've all met them) who seem still to be somehow oblivious to it all.Of course if the public wearing masks in any way prevents key workers from obtaining supplies then the latter must have priority every time.  But most of the masks I have seen being worn out in the community are makeshift and cheap, and not of the kind that would be considered sufficient protection in a hospital ward or a similarly high-risk environment.

Phil Andrews ● 1941d

Macron in France announes masks for all citizens. Strange silence here.

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d

Selling of NHS sites! Madness who sells their assets. Also the eighties saw our manufacturing base decimated. As you quite rightly say both parties responsible.

Nicholas Beard ● 1950d

We have really been caught out by our total dependence of importing from abroad.The real irony is that a great many of the products are UK designed and developed but we have a complete inability to manufacture in volume.That's  down to huge overheads for manufacturing facilities large and small and a long standing policy to sell off govt and MoD facilities to store civil defence and emergency supplies. and politically all administrations over 30 years have had a hand in that so no one party to blame.  This is something that needs to change when all this is over as well as selling off NHS sites.

Raymond Havelock ● 1950d

Just read three nurses at Northwick Park hospital who were forced to wear bin bags have been confirmed with COVID19.

Nicholas Beard ● 1950d

Just seen France has now upped mask order to 2 billion. Masks are now acknowledged as useful. Still nothing here.

Nicholas Beard ● 1955d

Just watching a sector on television called MASK WARS. Prices are going up. It showed all the countries bidding and lots of details. However the UK was not shown! Are we still trying to source masks?

Nicholas Beard ● 1955d

Certainly the most effective masks should be for those in the very front line.But even a simple mask is better than nothing at all for the rest of us and Industrial protective glasses for those who work in shops.

Raymond Havelock ● 1955d

Absolutely the NHS should get the PPE they need first. But the training needed to fit and use a P3 type filter mask is minimal. As a key worker I have to say your employer should act responsibly and do all they can to protect you as we need all our key workers more than ever before.

Robert Ayres ● 1956d

Neither the FFP3N or the N95 mask are suitable for public use.The FFP3 requires a proper fitting test to ensure you have the correct size for a start.The N95 is mainly used by NHS staff.Neither are reusable (which was stated).Neither will work on children or anyone with facial hair - as they won't form an effective seal around the mouth and nasal area.Plenty of sound advice via NHS, WHO or even CDC to back this up.It's not all about cost.Personally i would rather a NHS worker got correct PPE before i do - and i'm a key worker out everyday with absolutely no PPE as my company say i don;t need it.

Martin Webb ● 1956d

The WHO and the Government knew very well from the outset that face masks work. However, they also knew that there were limited stocks of the correct type which is:FFP3N or N95 these masks will if correctly worn stop the virus entering the respiratory tract however this virus can also enter the body through the eyes so that is why medics wear a visor. Now the real reason is Cost each mask £2 and the N stands for non reusable and the available stock is needed for the front line NHS.

Robert Ayres ● 1956d

I heard this a few weeks ago -- that youngsters cannot read analogue clocks. Add Roman numerals and the case becomes hopeless!

Susan Kelly ● 1956d

Well Raymond you have hit the nail on the head. I remember once on a railway station a young man asked me the time. I was nervous as I wondered about my watch. I replied there is a clock up there. He looked a replied "yes but it is not digital and I cannot read those with funny numbers". I told him the time and he thanked me and was gone. Funny numbers I thought and then realised, Roman numerals. So you are correct.

Nicholas Beard ● 1957d

Other countries have public service films on how to put on wear and remove both masks and gloves.  Very simple stuff but we have a nation of people who get Ocado to come and tie shoe laces.But things like this could easily be shown on TV and dubbed into English..Or if in doubt You Tube will have a video or three!

Raymond Havelock ● 1957d

Well when this is over I understand that some countries are stepping up orders of masks gloves etc. Of course we cannot expect our government to look ahead. As you know they turned down the chance to protect NHS staff in 2017. Why is there going to be a review of masks if they are no good.

Nicholas Beard ● 1957d

The theory I've heard is that they are not very effective and because people don't know how to use them (there is a thread on ChiswickW4 where people are asking which way up and which side out which rather backs that up) they actually create more risk than they avert by encouraging people to touch their faces. Certainly Public Health England are not recommending them outside clinical settings and I have a worrying tendency to believe people who spend their lives studying these matters.Which is not to say that I don't use a mask myself sometimes (and indeed have a reusable one on order)

Guy Lambert ● 1957d

I suppose the government does not want to pay or ask China. Russia may help. France ordered 1 billion from China we have ordered 170 million only.France has a factory making them  in normal times. Why not us? I thought your post was very clear pity our politicians were not as clear. Still testing is the way to go now the PM said!

Nicholas Beard ● 1957d

I have used a mask for a few weeks. And gloves. It just seems to be a prudent thing to do if delivering to people who are self contained.It's a precaution but odd that Japanese and Koreans always wear masks when suffering just a common cold. Have done for decades out of respect for others.This, we all know is several times more virulent than a common cold so  why the dismissal of masks as irrelevant. Along with lackadaisical attitude to testing is very cavalier when simply not enough is known.Until otherwise clearly known surely all options for containment ought to be used.A mask and gloves are simple options in public places.And all supermarket staff ought to be issued with both, and tested, they are during everything.

Raymond Havelock ● 1958d