Forum Topic

Labour calls for lockdown exit strategy this week

Good move by Starmer. We need to know how this will end, even if the government can't commit to a date, they should publish the criteria for easing the lockdown.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52287920

Andy Riley ● 1945d54 Comments

Probably if a vacine was developed here it would be shipped abroad. This is based on the rate we are shipping PPE abroad.

Nicholas Beard ● 1938d

What are the chances of the vaccine being developed in this country and what then?

Anne England ● 1939d

Quite so Raymond.Remember Tony Blair had his difficulties with reforming the public sector:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/388528.stm

Andy Riley ● 1939d

Vanessa you mention Brexit. When a vacine is discovered who will approve it for use in the UK. We could use the EMA I am told but Boris says we will not be a rule taker. So we will probably receive it after the USA and EU as we are classed as a third country. Also we will probably pay more as we cannot buy in bulk.  Couple all this with our goverment organising  supplies, need I say more.

Nicholas Beard ● 1939d

The ministers are only the front men and women.  The regularly incompetence of the Foreign office whenever a crises occurs shows how Ministers end up having the rug pulled from under their feet by the sheer incompetence of those who are actually supposed runs and facilitate actions.Questions too have to be asked about procurement within the NHS. Absenteeism in advance of the crisis shot up as soon as people were allowed to self isolate.  That led to delays at a crucial time. Decisions were not made and absentees of a decision making level apparently did not even attempt to work from home.The knock on of incompetence or withering is the results of which we are seeing in front line personnel in Hospitals Care Homes and all those others in direct contact with people..It matters not who the government and ministers are. If they are wrong fitted by incompetence down the line, theres very little they can do about it personally without a massive clear out. And that simply cannot be done at this present time.Let's hope those who have done well and pulled their weight actually get recognised for it when all is done.

Raymond Havelock ● 1939d

Even worse is the PPE being shipped to the EU as the executive in charge said THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT WANT TO KNOW. On Monday 7 lorries on Italian number plates reportedly turned up and took away 750000 (yes that figue is correct) masks.

Nicholas Beard ● 1939d

This morning on GMB Piers Morgan read out a list from someone who had rung the goverment re PPE. They were transferred from Foreign to Home Office to Ministry of Health and many more. The lady who was with him started laughing, and it did sound funny. But as he said it actually happened.

Nicholas Beard ● 1939d

'Before the virus outbreak I would have said we had a bunch of second-rate ministers. Now I think that is too complimentary.'It has become clear with Johnson being ill and out of the loop that this is very much a one man show, a group of Yes men and women without a clue and not able or willing to make decisions. Why on earth any government worth the name would still be negotiating  the Brexit departure is beyond words, anyone with half a brain knows they've got more than enough for their combined intelligence quotient to cope with at the moment. That's why we're in the mess we're in - it's been Brexit to the detriment of anything, and everything else.

Vanessa Smith ● 1939d

I heard a BBC report earlier today (Monday) that the Turkish supplier is saying they didn't get confirmation of the order until Sunday. Hmm! 'Stand off in Istanbul'

Peter Evans ● 1939d

According to a news reort on BBCWorld Service the plane has been sitting at Brize Norton since Friday but the Turkish manufacturer did not apply for an export licence until this morning!

N V Brooks ● 1940d

Hopefully Keith more common sense overall.It's a quality seemingly 'bred-out' of many politicians.

N V Brooks ● 1940d

Peter just read LOW CONFIDENCE OF TURKISH PPE ARRIVING MONDAY. Just what you were saying.

Nicholas Beard ● 1940d

Was I alone in imagining a giant Turkish transport plane winging its way towards the UK on Sunday loaded with kit? Wherever did I get that idea from?  It now appears we've got an RAF transport plane of our own ready to go and fetch the stuff!  At gunpoint?!  Or maybe Mr Erdogan wants a few personnel carriers delivered in return for the aprons.

Peter Evans ● 1940d

Before the virus outbreak I would have said we had a bunch of second-rate ministers. Now I think that is too complimentary.

Christopher Hugh Dakers ● 1940d

That is very to the point. They should not have announced the Turkey PPE until they were sure it would arrive. As you say where is it now. Last I heard was the RAF plane was waiting at Brize Norton ready to go. The 100000 tests were announced but Boris said 250000 was possible. People doubt me when I quote this although it is on the internet with a credible source. Well all we can do is read whatever comes next and draw our own conclusions.

Nicholas Beard ● 1940d

N V, do you mean more common sense when it comes to apologising, or just more common sense?

Keith Iddon ● 1940d

It's the lying, the obfuscation and the evasion that's so tiresome. The '100,000 tests' that came to nothing, like the numbers on the side of the bus, with all the 'ramping up', 'our plan is' and the 'going to do's', and other imaginative displays of the future tense. We're told the plane load from Turkey will 'be here tomorrow', but with no straight forward explanation of where it actually is - 'held up in customs', 'faulty engine', 'hi-jacked by Trump', 'Erdogan's kept them', or 'oops, we forget to order them'.  Any honest explanation would do.

Peter Evans ● 1940d

Remember when someone closed fire stations?

Nicholas Beard ● 1940d

From today's 'i':'Every nation, every leader, every health system, has lessons to learn from this pandemic that has struck the planet with such destructive force. But somethings are already clear: how little the state cares for the old and disabled people; how little it values many essential workers; how responsible most citizens are in an emergency; how badly China's government behaved. And sadly, how Michael Gove was right when he originally said Johnson was not fit to lead a nation.'

Vanessa Smith ● 1940d

Apart from Matt Hancock and Alok Sharma apologising on for delays in the supply of PPE and Michael Gove openly admitting that the governemnt had got 'many things wrong' and saying sorry yesterday.Thankfully, the days of the 'mealy-mouthed' apology from Priti Patel have been overtaken by those with more common-sense.

N V Brooks ● 1940d

There was a representitive of the frontline staff on GMB this moring. She told Piers Morgan that there has not been one apology from the government for their handling of the situation.

Nicholas Beard ● 1940d

Well, I suppose if I were a politician who had been found wanting and lost an elevated position I had buggered up - I might think that was divine retribution, c'est la vie!

Vanessa Smith ● 1941d

Also:"4. retribution for one's actions"(Collins English Dictionary 1979)"retribution 1. the act of punishing or taking vengeance for wrongdoing, sin or injury"

Andy Riley ● 1941d

For God's sake who's making 'political points' now?The fact is that there are those who have got it very, very wrong and it cannot be acceptable that after this they should be allowed to stay in their positions/jobs, if they have shown themselves to be incompetent or indeed - lied to us.Reckoning noun:'the time when one is called to account for one's actions, to pay one's debts, or to fulfill one's promises or obligations.'

Vanessa Smith ● 1941d

The Tories clearly thought they could get away with their austerity, which among many other destructive policies, abandoned pandemic planning and equipment stockpiles, ran down doctor and nurse numbers, and progressively deprived local authorities of enough funding for care homes. In so far as they were re-elected, they obviously did get away with it, but only now to be faced with the fatal results of their earlier actions and present inaction.

Peter Evans ● 1941d

The fact is that it looks like we are going to be the worst hit in Europe. 7500 dead in care homes that is not counted in the total figure. On the horizon, the economy that we are told will be one of the worst hit 35% less growth, against a terrible 9%. However the huge boost from post brexit trade deals seems to be talked about less.

Nicholas Beard ● 1941d

Ian you are right. There is an article in the Guardian today about HOW WE GOT IT SO WRONG. The reality is that we still have not been given masks, that is fact.

Nicholas Beard ● 1941d

I'm not happy with the term 'reckoning' either as it implies politicians hanging from lampposts.Our politicians have not covered themselves with glory, but most governments have been struggling with this crisis. Keyboard warriors seems convinced that they'd have sorted it all out in no time if they'd been in charge, using their famous 'common sense'.

Susan Kelly ● 1941d

This is a political issue. The far right politicians running the country have handled it very badly. Their supporters can't even have the basic human decency to accept that, and resort to pathetic attacks on Jeremy Corbyn instead.

Ian Speed ● 1941d

I dont think Vanessa is point scoring or petty politicking. But when it is suggested carers have a badge and PPE is left and testing is still nowhere Germanys level she is right to be concerned. How about masks for the binmen or £30 a day bonus. Front line health workers give them a £1000 bonus. They have done it in another countey.

Nicholas Beard ● 1944d

"A reckoning"?Yes, there will be inquiries and debate and hopefully we can learn from what went well and what didn't both here and abroad.  But "a reckoning" is the language of revenge.  You reveal yourself as one who will not give up on petty politicking and point scoring. 

Andy Riley ● 1944d

I am sorry but you lose any credibility for your argument when you resort to insults.
Get over yourself and your political prejudices. You speak of working together and then seek to divide. An 'Old Labour' mantra.

N V Brooks ● 1944d

You are right. IT IS THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE. My goodness I hope there will be a reckoning.

Nicholas Beard ● 1944d

Typical response of 'what about' - whatever anyone else would do I'm damned sure they'd stop prevaricating about the provision of PPE for these poor sods and offer badges instead. When will you get it through your thick skull it IS political - and as I've said before people will work together but you cannot  overlook the shortcomings of the people who are supposed to be in charge. When this is over there will be a reckoning.

Vanessa Smith ● 1944d

Carers are poorly paid yet good ones are worth their weight in gold.  Nonetheless the most important ones are those who give up part of their lives to care for spouses or siblings, family or even friends for no renumeration at all .Some do it tirelessly with no renumeration and they are a forgotten army who do it day in day out, year in year out.In the current situation they also are unrecognised and at the back of the queue .

Raymond Havelock ● 1944d

Give it a rest. Hancock wants to give carers standard ID badges in order that they can gain priority access to supermarket queues and other services like other front-line health care professionals. Never let the facts though get in the way of a cheap shot though eh? Fed up with the politicisation of a crisis. Would the magic grandpa and his shambolic collection have done any better?  We will never know bit it doesn't stop many having 'instant hindsight' and becoming 'experts' does it?

N V Brooks ● 1944d

What is Hancock on? He wants to give carers badges - it is crass and insulting, when what they need is PPE, where do we get these morons from?

Vanessa Smith ● 1944d

Did not know about volunteers being underused. I was thinking on Monday what happened to all those thousands of volunteers? Well on Brentford TW3 you can certainly learn a lot. Do you have anything on the volunteers?

Nicholas Beard ● 1944d

Fact is there are lots of areas where the systems are failing and falling short of their ability to deliver.Supplies and procurement has become like the wild west,Petty Politics, empire builders and careerists and power struggles are still rife in some of the Public Services including the NHS and as usual the people at the cutting edge are taking the brunt of both.Volunteers are being under used and too much is not quite right. In most cases nearly but not quite.EG .Why are people living less than 1/2 mile from a supermarket or shops and under 50 getting deliveries when over 60's and those who have to isolate cannot get any sort of delivery?Organisation and methodology is way too slow.

Raymond Havelock ● 1944d

I am NOT going to perpetuate politicisation of this but the 'embryonic' stages of the financial crisis in the NHS dates back to the headlong  (some may say headless) rush into PFI by Bliar and his cohort.
I welcome Keir Starmer's intervention as he has the political maturity not to politicise the current crisis, unlike some. God knows what bloody state we would be in if the 'magic grandpa' was still trying to run things. We had a tiny taste of it with his 'I was right' speech. Odious little man.

N V Brooks ● 1945d

You really aren't getting this are you? Working together doesn't mean letting the government off the hook when they are buggering things up - which they are. I've seen two reports today that seem to be saying that because Johnson has been very ill - he's almost elevated to sainthood. Going on about how people lost sleep over him - really? Not in this house. Because the rest of the cabinet are so pathetic - leaving aside Rishi Sunak - he is being missed, but when it comes down to it Johnson is just full of bluff and bluster, which is how he performs, and people don't look any further to see if there is any substance in him. He may well have had a Damascene moment with the NHS but that can never excuse the previous damage that he and his cohorts have brought upon it and other public services. Neither can it be forgiven, and they must be held to account now and in the future.

Vanessa Smith ● 1945d

"Whilst working together" — nail on head!
NOT point scoring!
However there are those who will take every opportunity to do the latter rather than the former.

N V Brooks ● 1945d

'FFS, when will you 'representatives' stop politicising this just to score a hollow point or two?'Like it or not but the solution to this will be a political one, and it is incumbent on the opposition to hold the government to account whilst working together. To think otherwise is extremely naive.

Vanessa Smith ● 1945d

Ah well yes. But it did say it. Just like electric car batteries he said we led. Then a few weeks later Tesla chose Berlin not he UK. They said German engineering excellence and Brexit swung their decision. Remember broadband sprouting up in every home in the uk. What a speech. But as you say waffle. Quote Johnson and people get would up even his supporters sometimes.

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d

FFS, when will you 'representatives' stop politicising this just to score a hollow point or two?
I would really hope for better.

N V Brooks ● 1945d

Sir John said they can get to Hancocks 100000 a day tests and have the power to get to 200000 then in the times on 1/4/20 Boris says 250000 quite clearly just had another look also the Express quotes 200000 a day I have just had another look.

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d

https://www.ft.com/content/fce110fc-6eaf-11ea-89df-41bea055720bHe said "hopefully very soon 250,000" but it was standard Johnson waffle so probably not intended to be believed. Just another smokescreen.

Guy Lambert ● 1945d

Um, he said 25,000, not 250,000

Mark Gormley ● 1945d

Quoted in the Times 1/4/20. Put in Google Boris says 250000 tests a day.

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d

200,000?When and where did he say that?

Paul Fisher ● 1945d

Tests wont be an issue as Boris said around 200000 tests a day by end of month. (Dont think so).

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d

Keir Starmer said he knows that it is impossible to ask for precise timescales - quite right - but the fact is the government do need to start thinking about when and how they are going to be able to start getting back to some sort of normality. Testing will clearly be a key factor in that.

Vanessa Smith ● 1945d

How can anyone know when this will end. So far all the reliance is on star and graphs and yet the system is deleting or not even including a whole sector of infections and casualties.Until testing can isolate people in pre-infectious positivity which is not even on the horizon then nothing can change without risk.It's way too early to call.

Raymond Havelock ● 1945d

I agree with you, but how can you get a stratergy in a week. Also Italy is in a terrible state and their economy will take a 9% shrinkage, we have continually been told about our wonderful economy but we are to take a 35% hit. Why? Then no one is talking about Brexit.

Nicholas Beard ● 1945d