Forum Topic

Dangerous cycling

Should we really be encouraging people to cycle who cannot obey a single road sign or even ride one handed without wobbling all over the place?Cycling to work to day, I spent more time avoiding other cyclists who are clearly not safe.Seen plenty of cameras on head gear but No Bells or mudguards on far too many bikes as well.Too many wearing headphones/earbuds and cannot hear other vehicles.These things are all part of basic safety not just for cyclists but also other cyclists and road users and pedestrians. Surely some sort of proficiency training needs to be implemented fast.And no-one is keeping a safe distance especially those who do bother to stop at junctions and crossings.  Today a lycra clad on a very expensive bike hurtled past and was spitting - not in aggression but more like a footballer. Problem is the cyclist he passed and myself got spattered.NOT ACCEPTABLE from people who really ought to know better.Pretty sure now I will have to go back to the van from tomorrow as the last few days have underlined the inability of people to use their loaf.Road offences must be enforced whatever mode one is using.  They are there for a reason most of the time.Get serious about safety, Cyclists are causing too much risk....rather ironically, to other cyclists and pedestrians.

Raymond Havelock ● 1443d30 Comments

Ah yes but you are talking about the days when cyclists were courteous and careful and considerate and shared the roads with motorists. These days many cyclists are speed freak,  arrogant and many of them are extremely thick. When they die or get injured they lobby for more separate lanes so that they can speed more and behave more arrogantly. The good news is that more and more people are turning to electric bikes and electric scooters who are also using the Cycle Lanes so the Lycra Bums are getting some of their own medicine.

Steve Taylor ● 1434d

When l used to cycle with my father, we went the way of the traffic, had a bell, bright lights both front and rear and made hand signals to inform others of our intentions and never rode the wrong way down a one way street as l believe Boris once mentioned when he was Mayorand always wore bright colours at night not all black as seems the norm now or had a bright yellow strip or jacket

Jean Harrison ● 1434d

You don't *have* to move out of the way of cyclists using the pavement. You could always stand your ground and see what happens. You could 'unpredictably' stagger about in front of them and they might 'accidentally' fall off while taking evasive action. A walking stick helps with this and a shopping trolley can certainly finish the job. You might suddenly find you need to 'instinctively steady yourself' against the cyclist as they pass and find that, totally inadvertently, you've pushed them over. 'Terribly sorry, but I wasn't expecting you on the pavement. Wouldn't you be safer on the road?'

Peter Evans ● 1441d

When walking along the pavement we have had to move out of the way of cyclists riding two abreast on the pavement with an empty road.  Why?  This is an ideal time to use the road.

Philippa Bond ● 1441d

Really Tim, you make an idiotic comment like that and call me dim?! Firstly, what difference does age have to do with the argument - don't "boomers" (which I'm not) have a right to express a point of view? The law is being broken and people, of all ages, are having their safety endangered by others with no regard for anyone but themselves. If you can't grasp this argument, perhaps you shouldn't be commenting - maybe leave it to the grown-ups?

Graham Thorpe ● 1442d

But that is the point. The scumbags breaking the law doesn’t have ZERO impact on others. It causes them to swerve or brake or accelerate and it has a negative impact on the environment and the mental well-being of decent pedestrians and motorists. Why are these cycling scum so arrogant as to believe they are above the law?

Steve Taylor ● 1442d

Jesus Chris you are dim! Proving a point about moaning Boomers! Someone who breaks a rule with ZERO impact on others should not be an affront to you! You should be happy they're not in cars adding to congestion, as you are.

Tim Burrell ● 1442d

can I drive my car on the pavement and ignore red signals and pedestrian crossings - can I expect people to wear dark glasses and ignore my law-breaking?

Graham Thorpe ● 1442d

Yeah - besides appearing scary to a few Boomers people who choose to cycle are ZERO risk to anyone.Why not wear darker glasses to prevent yourself seeing these rule breakers!?

Tim Burrell ● 1442d

" So we seem to have a problem of a minority behaving badly."It isn't a minority- it's a majority

Steve Taylor ● 1442d

"... but that's nothing compared to what two tons of steel is going to do if it hits you. "Again, lets concentrate on cycling. You don't have to be hit. Neither by 2 tonnes of steel, nor 10 tonnes nor 100 kg of meat and bones. The consequence of me being hit by a car during a close pass or by a cyclist in the close pass I experienced recently (I was able to avoid  the collision, but it did not feel good at all) would've been identical - I would've fallen on the left side, my bike on top, potential left knee damage.As for"some" or "many" - 40% jumping red light  - is "some" or "many"? Where do you think "many" should start for use of earphones?And - yes, I agree that earphones for car drivers is equally unsafe and inappropriate. Same as wearing hoodies by the way - for both drivers and cyclists. Hoodies significantly limit your ability to see around you.

Alex Shpinkov ● 1442d

I'm a car driver but not often nowadays. I'm a keen recreational cyclist and have never gone through a red light or similar and when cycling anywhere narrow, eg the canal towpath, often see terror in child-shepherding parents' eyes when I ping my bell then approach. That turns to smiles as they turn to see me and my wife edging past at walking speed. We're also walking lots currently, eg 6 hours in the past two days and there are indeed some inconsiderate cyclists and joggers who seem to be racing to better their best ever time and are not going to stop or swerve for anyone. Yesterday a cyclist illegally charging along the pavement by Morrisons (why?) nearly crashed into me and swore foully when I suggested he get off the pavement. So we seem to have a problem of a minority behaving badly. Social pressure helps but in the end you also need some measure of enforcement. Oh, I forgot, 10 years of austerity and slashed council and police budgets have made that impractical.

Eric Baker ● 1442d

I can't speak for the majority of cyclists. What I do know is that I have five times, in clear memory, nearly been hit by a cyclist who is riding and riding fast on a pavement of riverbank path. It would have only taken a step to the right or left, as one sometimes does as one moseys along, to have the idiot crash right into me and I can only imagine that that would have lead to considerable injury. It is always a shock at the very least. Bells give some warning but need to be used a bit of a distance away to give time to react.

Anne England ● 1442d

Alex, Guy and others, you are of course all correct to some extent. The real risk to road safety comes from cars - a cyclist might give you a fright, spatter you with mud, or perhaps even knock you over, but that's nothing compared to what two tons of steel is going to do if it hits you.  That said, yes, cyclists as road users absolutely ought to have at least basic training and road sense - as it happens I recently found my Cycling Proficiency Certificate (dating back to 19-mumble mumble!), so I know this is possible. And sure enough, in today's news story on new traffic measures it says Hounslow council is "looking to reintroduce adult cycle training, with a focus on keyworkers, as soon as possible." By the by, I hate it when I see some (no Alex, not "many") people cycling with earphones in - but I also see drivers doing it, and that seems just as scary. As to all the stuff about some (again Alex, no, not "many") cyclists jumping lights or crossings, yes it happens, and yes, often it is unsafe. Of course if junctions were redesigned with bikes in mind, not just motor vehicles, that might help.

Bryan Betts ● 1442d

I agree with Andy's comment - pavements have become too dangerous to use due to the dangerous and criminal behaviour of cyclists - if I go out with my children, I more often drive than walk - it's safer. This is surely not the solution, but cyclists are clearly above the law and can ride where and how they want without sanction. Cars generally stop at zebra crossings, cyclists never do.

Graham Thorpe ● 1442d

Another thing I used to do on approaching a roundabout, was to see if it was busy. If it was I used to get off and walk.

Nicholas Beard ● 1442d

I cycle a lot but I'm not a long distance cyclist, never was any good at that.  But I do use back routes as much as possible but have never had an issue with being in traffic. There are far more near incidents when on the bike but being less visible that's always going to be a problem. One has to cycle diligently and obey the signage and think and be specially aware. How can you do that with earplugs and using a phone?  It's bad enough with car users using gadgets but they have the protection of metal around them Cyclists do not. In decades of cycling in London I have not had a problem. Primarily because I take great care, use the road as if I was driving a bus or a van, signal clearly and use a bell for pedestrians and ride the same way as I drive, defensively. That is to assume that any other road user may do something daft at any time.I see fellow cyclists all the time riding up the nearside of Trucks and Buses with just inches between the vehicles and the kerb. Cyclists on superior machines and all the gear. But clear nothing inside their helmet.It's sheer common sense but it does not help when so many take risks and make the remainder feel like a weird minority for doing things properly.

Raymond Havelock ● 1442d

Guy make the point that cyclists cause far fewer serious casualties.  But that's only part of the picture - due to the pavement cyclists' behaviour people out for a walk have to be constantly on the alert which detracts from the walk's enjoyment.  I gave up walking the river and canal paths because of this.Speeding car drivers are an abomination, but at least they (usually) don't share the pavement with me.

Andy Riley ● 1442d

Just back from Chiswick High Road.I think I am going to see how to request a copy of the camera footage.  In ten mins every single cyclist jumped pedestrian lights at Turnham Green and by the Catholic Church. Many Cyclists on pavements ( You are supposed to scoot not ride)Just go and look.  It's happening and it is nothing to do with other traffic, there is very little.There is no excuse for so many to be ignoring basic road rules, they are there for all road users.Yes. it is also true of the idiots in powerful cars. Yesterday, whilst out on my bike saw not once but 3 times a Large 4WD Gunmetal Grey reg no YM19 UMD doing speeds well in excess of 100 mph up and down the Great West Road between Hounslow East junction and Osterley Gillette Corner at 3.45pm pulling in at the Shell Station. Where I managed to get the number.But that was one,  Very different to many not observing basic road rules and the risk to pedestrians and us other cyclists where there are more hazards.Cannot fathom why people with cameras on helmets cannot run to putting bell on their bike.Drive with a headlight out and you get fined. Horn not working an MoT failure. Vehicle considered dangerous for the public highway.Whats the difference?And Injuries by Bicycles are not collated unless overnight hospitalisation is required.Thats because no insurance is involved similarly where a cyclist is at fault, data cannot be compiled as there is no legal requirement or insurance.Hence unbalanced statistics.If we are to have a safer means then these basics, insurance registration and documented official proficiency testing need to be in place. So everyone can ride with responsibility.

Raymond Havelock ● 1442d

I always say never talk about cyclists jumping the red light. Just go to any traffic lights and watch. Perhaps if it IS a bad day you have to wait five mins to see one jump a red. SEEING IS BELIEVING.

Nicholas Beard ● 1442d

"Do you admit that lots of cyclists jump red light?Do you admit they often fail to give way to pedestrians on zebra crossings?Do you admit many cycle in earphones which makes it unsafe for themselves and others?Do you admit many pass slower cyclists closely and silently?"The answer to all of the above questions is YES. And it has nothing at all to do with motorists.

Steve Taylor ● 1443d

Guy,"Motorists habitually disobey the law on speeding" - do you mean some or all? I try not to but occasionally err.The usual way of looking at this is to divide the world into drivers, cyclists and pedestrians.  But that is not how things work, sometimes I am a driver and sometimes a pedestrian.  I hope that whatever I am doing I am considerate (but that is for others to judge)Another way of looking at it is that there are considerate people and a*s*h*l*s. At any time an a*s*h*l* may fall into any one of these categories of pedestrian, cyclist, driver.So like you I give an inner sigh when the topic comes up again, but for the reason that the arguments are usually based on false premises.

Andy Riley ● 1443d

And with their name and address writ large on their vehicle.

Keith Iddon ● 1443d

Sorry Guy but it is certainly not Cars V Bikes right now.It's Cycles v Cycles and Cycles V Pedestrians.It's nearly 20 years since the Canals ran a huge ' Two Tings' etiquette for riders to allot other cyclists from behind and pedestrians. Many cyclists really observe this, but still was too many do not, primarily because they have no bell on their machine.And you completely omit that all motorised vehicles have to have insured operators.

Raymond Havelock ● 1443d

The old stats. about how many people are killed by cars as opposed to cycles is always brought out by some to justify poor behaviour from cyclists. I wonder how many cyclists put themselves in unnecessary danger.I have seen many cyclists on the footpath during this lockdown, when there have been hardly any cars on the roads.Seems that cyclists are beyond reasonable criticism in some quarters, no matter what.

Keith Iddon ● 1443d

Guy, I think we need to stop playing cars against cycles. This thread is about cycling safety. I hope you don't think it's OK for cyclists to collide with each other or with pedestrians? Or with cars - when it's cyclists fault and cyclists of course have no insurance for the damage they cause? Do you admit that lots of cyclists jump red light?Do you admit they often fail to give way to pedestrians on zebra crossings?Do you admit many cycle in earphones which makes it unsafe for themselves and others?Do you admit many pass slower cyclists closely and silently?Do you think all the above is safe?We need to work to make our roads and pavements safer, and not to inspire war against motor vehicles.My personal experience is that I get more near misses from cyclists than from cars.

Alex Shpinkov ● 1443d

Oh dear we're back on this old saw again.Number of people killed as a result of cyclists in the Uk <2 per annum. Number killed as a result of motor vehicles ~1800.The danger to others from cyclists is nearer to the danger to others from pedestrians than it is to that from motor vehicles. Pedestrians jaywalk and pass others closely without using a bell very frequently. Of course, cyclists should obey the law and act courteously, and most do. There are exceptions. Motorists habitually disobey the law on speeding (20mph anybody?), mobile phone usage, texting, eating while driving etc etc. Oh, and how many actually respect the space allocated to cyclists - painted bike lanes and, particularly, advanced stop lines? Check it out next time you're on the road.I'm not being holier that thou, I drive also.I cycle every day, including sometimes on 'crowded cycle lanes' but I have never had a collision with another cyclist, nor more than one or two near misses. Practically every time I ride I am passed too close by a car (or motorcycle or van), often going at 30 or 40mph, sometimes more. Most motorists are considerate, but I have an experience that scares me perhaps once a week. Thankfully I have only been knocked off my bike once (by a van on Kew Bridge Road) with only minor injuries.

Guy Lambert ● 1443d

Very well put Raymond.I should admit that whenever I cycle I have more problems with the fellow cyclists than with cars. As I'm not a fast cyclists, they pass me closely and silently - no bells as you rightfully noted, one passed me and turned left right in front to a side road while I was following the main road. And I don't even mention jumping red lights, failure to stop at zebra crossings, inconsiderate riding on pavement, regular choosing keeping momentum over safety.Some sort of training would definitely help. As well as some sort of media campaign to promote CONSIDERATE cycling.

Alex Shpinkov ● 1443d

I must admit there's never a time I go out on the bike in a built-up area that I don't witness at least 1 cyclist committing some kind of offences, usually either riding on the pavement or going through red lights.And, despite the lycra lout tag that some people are quick to use, more often than not it is recreational (rather than sporty) cyclists of all ages who commit such offences.Equally it's rare for me to go out for a drive, walk or cycle without witnessing a motor vehicle commit some kind of offence.And in the same way that some cyclists think they can do anything, some drivers have no knowledge of what cyclists can and can't do, for example if there is signage allowing it then it's perfect lawful for a cyclist to cycle the wrong way down a one-way street.The behaviour of other cyclists wouldn't ever deter me from cycling, but ironically what does deter me from cycling in the middle of the capital is the sheer volume of cyclists of all abilities and ages funnelled into narrow cycle lanes which does put cyclists at risk of the inconsiderate behaviour, poor riding skills or general lack of awareness many cyclists possess - so in that regard I totally agree about the need for proficiency and  that should include being capable of riding in a proper manner on a road shared with vehicular traffic.

Adam Beamish ● 1443d

You are right. I remember going to work at Heathrow in the winter early shift. Bikes with no lights going through red lights. Also wrong way down one ways. Car drivers always at fault.

Nicholas Beard ● 1443d