Forum Topic

Occupation Lane

It is really weird how since covid the council now wants to shut down occupation Lane so people can walk safely down the road.For many years we wanted a one way system but the council would not do as it was for use of the M4.Have they counted the number that walk down very few do most use  clayponds gardens as near the bus stop.Has Ealing and Hounslow council not realise that traffic on to the estate will cause more issues with chestnut avenue and what about the ambulances to clayponds hospital they will have to use clayponds avenue via great west road or chestnut avenuewhy has there been no consultation with residents on the estate.They are quick to bring in controlled parking but this is slipped though without any

Julie Brooker ● 1877d83 Comments

Correct, if you want to blame anyone, blame the councillors!

N V Brooks ● 1828d

They are working for local people via their democratically-elected representatives.

Guy Lambert ● 1829d

the LBOH officers are not working for us, the Residents.So are they taking their instruction from a Councilor.

Bernard Allen ● 1829d

Well said Guy

John Dickinson ● 1830d

Throw shit around and you get know cooperation.I've thrown enough around to be banned from entering the Old Civic Centre, Don't know if that gets extended to Hounslow House though. (All I did was tell the truth)you see, I don't do all my complaining from behind a keyboard.Robust discussion and sticking to facts is better.Or sack all the LBOH officers as not all are professional and hire outside traffic engineers.Lets face it they could come up with a scheme on the back of a fag packet and have it done by the afternoon

Bernard Allen ● 1830d

Correct and Councillors (poor beleaguered dears) can instruct officers,

N V Brooks ● 1830d

Council Officers work for councillors and residents

Paul Fisher ● 1830d

And your point is?If the scheme is wrong then Councillors, working with officers, should have the 'cojones' to admit the mistake and rectify it.If they seek to publicise themselves by putting their heads 'over the parapet' then with the plaudits come the brickbats.If that is uncomfortable then either say nothing or stand down and give up the generous allowances.

N V Brooks ● 1830d

Not a shame at all when Councillors (or one Councillor) declares that he is "proud of" dropping concrete blocks in the middle of the road! They deserve all the flak that is generated.I haven't read a councilor say he or she was proud of dropping concrete blocks in the middle of the road. This was started by Central Government on the back of Covid-19. But you can also depend on LBOH to take the ETO closure measures to the extreme.Which is carried out by LBOH the traffic department, who I believe have taken old traffic problems that have been around for years and finally done something about them. The only problem is, they have all beaning carried out at the same time, which is a bit of getting use to.I also believe that LBOH hasn't got any real traffic engineers as you can see by the mess up being made of various road closures.Why one Councilor should take all the flak for all of Hounlslow ETO's I have know Idea, Its the traffic officers that should be hung out to dry for being so incompetent.But that said, they cannot post on hear for you to have a go at, so as human nature goes, we pick on the person who will stick their head over the parapet.   

Bernard Allen ● 1830d

It’s just a shame that the local councillors are the ones to take the flak of the officers badly designed schemes, and there plenty of them. Not a shame at all when councillors (or one councillor) declares that he is "proud of" dropping concrete blocks in the middle of the road! They deserve all the flak that is generated.

N V Brooks ● 1831d

When Carville Crescent becomes a "School Street" will that not move the traffic into Brentwick Gardens & Crowther Avenue (Very quiet streets atm by the way) Guy????

Mark Hammond ● 1831d

If the LBOH traffic officers had designed getting rid of the rat run correctly, you wouldn’t need a school street.You wait there is going to be on hell of a back lash against  the government for dreaming this up this scheme.You can also depend on LBOH to take the ETO closure measures to the extreme. It’s just a shame that the local councillors are the ones to take the flak of the officers badly designed schemes, and there plenty of them.

Bernard Allen ● 1831d

Carville Crescent as a school street has benn planned for some time. Ask the people who live there why they think it's a good idea.

Guy Lambert ● 1831d

17 people according to a Police source, have been hit by cyclists at bus stops in King Street Hammersmith, since June. And they are the ones actually reported.More riders are using the pavements or the outer lanes rather than the dedicated lanes.As a Cyclist I can see why. You cannot pass slower riders and the less experienced get so intimidated by the Speed riders that they have taken to the pavements.What's it going to take to get cyclists to ride safely?  The same degree of prosecution foisted on motor vehicle drivers even when the evidence proves them not at fault?I cannot believe the degree of stupid cycling that is now everywhere. It's a skill that needs proper tuition and practice and a sensible mindset.We have the safest roads in the world for it's density and this idiocy of anything goes is rapidly undoing it.So why not get a head start, abandon Kerb Drill, forget looking left or right and put your toddlers in the road to play.

Raymond Havelock ● 1831d

Carville Crescent will become a school street.Oh that was slipped in a bit quick. Talk about jamming up a complete area for hours .The problem is the LBOH offices cannot admit when they have got it wrong. Buy the way the pop up cycle lanes are restricting disabled people from using taxies or mini cabs as the cabs cannot pull into The cycle lane and stop, and pull out there wheel chair Access ramp

Bernard Allen ● 1831d

"If it doesn't work we will review it."And we (we - the people who live here) will pay for it(((.

Alex Shpinkov ● 1831d

I very much doubt that will be the case, and in any event Carville Crescent will become a 'school street' during rush hour which means it will be closed to non-residents.This in any case is an experimental scheme. If it doesn't work we will review it.

Guy Lambert ● 1831d

It's brainless and causing major problems for the hospital staff, patients and deliveries already.And the lane is now a racetrack for Mopeds and motor cyclists and clearly too many dodgy types lurking about down there.Guy, Get on your bike and cycle down there after dark or even in the day.See for yourself the idyll walking or cycling route ( when far safer alternatives are a few metres away.Sorry, but this is a vary bad mistake.

Raymond Havelock ● 1831d

MarkThis is part of my post on the 26th If Occupation Lane is closed, then there will no way out of the estate, so I know what I would do, turn left out of chestnut Ave quickly turn right into Carville Crescent, then reverse back out into Clayponds Avenue, then you can drive straight down to the lights on the A4.I am no traffic engineer but would a No Left Hand turn Sign into Chestnut Ave sited on the Ealing Road be slightly better? I visit the area quite frequently and tried it out and it was easy to do.Now if the regular rat running traffic gets to know that you might have a regular stream of vehicles doing u turns at Carville Crescent.But as you say this is also a well used walking route to Lionel Primary School rear entrance.Just goes to show our LBOH traffic offers have no Idea of how to create a safe place for pedestrians and Cyclist.

Bernard Allen ● 1831d

When they put the no right turn at the end of Chestnut Avenue into Clayponds Avenue to stop cars using this as a rat run to the A4.This will cause the cars to simply turn left at the end of Chestnut Avenue then right into either Carville Crescent(Has a primary school on this road) or Brentwick Gardens as you can access Clayponds Avenue this way without having to make a right hand turn.These 2 quiet streets will in time become a rat run.

Mark Hammond ● 1831d

Just to confirm: maintenance of the roadways and footways on Hounslow council estates has recently been given to Hounslow Highways. The works on Clayponds Gardens are to do with their ontake and improvements and are not related to any CPZ, where resident feedback is still to be digested and proposals made (or not)

Guy Lambert ● 1841d

No, at least not yet.The officer running the consultation has not yet reviewed the responses (like all council officers he's been busy on COVID related activities with many people redeployed out of their normal jobs). I have enquired as to what works are going on in Clayponds Gardens - certainly nothing to do with CPZ.I'll take a look myself tomorrow if I get a minute.

Guy Lambert ● 1847d

Clayponds Gardens CPZ Consultation Closed 5 Jun 2020Opened 29 Apr 2020 CPZ Designhttps://haveyoursay.hounslow.gov.uk/traffic-and-transport/claypondsgardenscpz/supporting_documents/Clayponds%20Gardens%20Proposed%20Design.pdfLooks as though its going in

Bernard Allen ● 1847d

BernardThe no right turn was an amendment to the original plan following some resident input and was notified a little later. It will be happening when the correct notice has been given and the signs obtained (signs are in big demand at present because schemes like this are going in all over England).I have asked for an update on the CPZ consultation in Clayponds Gardens. They originally voted against a CPZ but petitioned for one when Mercedes Benz and Brentford FC related people (and others who don't want to pay for, or are ineligible for CPZ spaces) started parking there. Last I heard consultation was to take place starting April and ending early June. I guess it's been delayed by COVID

Guy Lambert ● 1848d

Just driven down Chestnut Avenue on the way to clayponds gardens. It was quite busy with cars having to pull over to let the cars coming the other way to pass. When I reached the junction with Chestnut Avenue and Clayponds Avenue I looked for the no right hand turn sign to stop traffic from turning towards the A4 Traffic lights and couldn’t see one, so it looks as though LBOH has decided no to implement that part of the scheme.When I parked up in Clayponds Gardens, apart from the tarmac pavement works ongoing, there looks like other works are also, that look like Dedicated parking spaces are being created and green areas being permently being fenced off in preparation to make Clayponds Gardens a CPZ zone.If true the residents are unaware of any consultation taking place about it 

Bernard Allen ● 1848d

It might be pointed out that a house fire in Albany road  after it's closure did result in fire appliances being unable to access hydrants and  Albany Road which was too narrow. Fire appliances ended up stuck in Lateward Road / St Paul's road and were delayed for 10 mins to get into the correct location. Only two managed to get into the vicinity properly.As for pollution what a load of stuff and nonsense. 30 plus years ago there were queues in Clayponds when Lionel Roads A$ right turn was blocked off. Lionel road was also very busy in the rush hour.Vehicles were far far more polluting than they are now and traffic levels have fallen significantly.Creating a gridlock for one road will increase pollution and the pollution locally comes from the M4 not a few cars , most of which are lean burn and minimal in emissions pootling about.It's not ideal for residents and busy roads but the house prices are reflected in that.But with a Hospital and large businesses in situ ( and there first in part, bad planning in the first place when the A4 was already in existence and the M$ in the q1960s has never really been addressed.But this is really putting people in danger, residents and outpatients and as for walking and cycling, have you been back and seen how many motor cycles are using it as a fast rat run?

Raymond Havelock ● 1850d

I did NOT ignore your response and clearly sated that the speed humps could be removed from Occupation Lane if ANPR CCTV (which you clearly claimed was inexpensive)was used instaed of concrete blocks.Well, on you conscience be it Cllr. Lambert should there be any kind of fire or medical emergency on Chestnut or adjacent roads and if the emergency services are delayed by the imposition of concrtes blocks. Any ambulance coming from West Area HQ in Hanwell (as it would for this location) will be delayed by your imposed 'detour' as would any fire applicance from Ealing.The closure of Albany Road, is a total red herring as although the direct route has been closed there is still access from multiple points. No one was ever going to complain about taking a minute longer to get to Morrisons.Still, as long as you are 'proud' of your scheme, then that's all that matters isn't it?I am happy that trafiic levels are being contained but this is a very ill-considered scheme and, even a moment of thought not tempered by a political ideology, would agree.

N V Brooks ● 1850d

Why is it a 'debacle'?As I explained (but you ignored NV) there are (were) two speed humps on Occupation Lane and there are two on Clayponds ave so it makes not a blind bit of difference to patients being caused distress by the humps. There is no restriction on access to Chestnut or adjoining roads. Every scheme across London that restricts traffic movements is hotly contested. Until they are in place eg since I've been a councillor the closure of the end of Albany Road was going to cause chaos. I can remember myself being infuriated when U turns were banned at Lionel Road/A4 when I was working between Slough and Great West House on the A4/Boston Manor Junction.We're all going to have to get used to restrictions on the hegemony of the car in London.Most people will be happy when their residential streets become calmer, safer and less polluted.

Guy Lambert ● 1851d

So many of the Ealing schemes seem to be general traffic calming measures offering only tangential benefits to pedestrians. I understood the original intention of these experimental schemes was '..to reallocate road space to people walking and cycling, both to encourage active travel and to enable social distancing during restart..'  That objective would be better achieved by making more space available for pedestrians to safely use the shops in South Ealing Road rather than sending more traffic down it.

Peter Evans ● 1851d

Like you Deborah (if I may) I proposed a series of alternatives that wuld have allowed continued use by emegency service vehicles (let's hope that no one on Chestnut and adjoing roads has a house fire as 'brigade barrier keys' dont't work on concrete blocks).My proposal involved the use of ANPR CCTV which Cllr. Lambert had stated wss 'low cost' when justifying its use on Green Dragon Lane.Naturally this was rejected9Not his idead I guess) and Lambert is now claiming to be 'proud' of the Occupation Lane debacle in aother thread.

N V Brooks ● 1851d

I agree. I tried to discuss the closure of Occupation Lane by email with Guy Lambert. The following reply from him on 26th June and especially the last paragraph, gives the LBH position and I suspect may sadly apply to Ealing Council and other groups as well: Dear DeborahYou may see that I’ve left an updated comment on TW8.I believe restricting right turns out of Chestnut into Clayponds Ave – which I agreed with traffic in response to a comment on the forum – will avoid problems there (albeit creating a minor inconvenience for residents).It is actually a clear objective that we want to discourage use of motorised transport except where necessary. This is particularly urgent because the evidence from elsewhere (and it’s a pretty obvious consequence of restrictions on public transport and people’s fears about using it) is that vehicle traffic quickly builds back to and in excess of pre-lockdown levels. If this happens in London the whole city is likely to come to a standstill.One of the routes to achieving this is to restrict the use of short cuts/rat runs/ call them what you will which are polluting, can be dangerous, and turn what should be quiet residential roads like Clayponds Avenue into far more major routes. This has of course been exacerbated by the growth of the use of Sat Nav.We were obliged to act quickly without the usual consultation, which will in effect take place largely after the event. Evidence suggests that restrictions like this are frequently resisted but welcomed in retrospect. If it turns out to not work, we will have spent very little on it and will happily reverse (or modify) it.Kind RegardsGuyLead Member for Highways, Recycling and Trading CompaniesFYI I subsequently challenged the logic and made some further suggestions about making the Clayponds Estate 'Access Only' including for emergency vehicles which I know frequently use Occupation Lane but my suggestions were not appreciated!

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1851d

It may not be legal.Occupation Lane is clearly marked as part of the London Borough of Ealing.The road was resurfaced by Ealing and is lit by Ealing and the signage at both ends is Ealing.Enquiries show that no transfer of boundaries have taken place and that part of the road is unadopted road and was made accessible as a requirement for new access to Clayponds Hospital when rebuilt.It appears LBH have no right to close Occupation ~Lane without full consultation with Ealing and South Ealing ward residents must be informed. The NHS trust, LAS and patient care groups should also have been fully informed and advised of the implications.Written clarification has been requested. Apparently, rather unbelievably, I am the first person to make such an enquiry.Furthermore the speed humps and chicanes which impede access to the Hospital should have been removed or  levelled before closure.This meddling has serious implications to well being of others, so not acceptable for this not to be properly thought through and discussed with those who can be affected.

Raymond Havelock ● 1852d

Today residents have received a letter now informing us of a temporary six month trial of No Right Turn from Chestnut Avenue onto Clayponds Avenue to reduce eastbound through traffic.Resident feedback will be considered during this trial.You do wonder why they don't they just put gates up at each junction with A4 and South Ealing Road residents only and we can declare independence like " PASSPORT FOR PIMLICO"

John William Selfe ● 1852d

Great post from Bernadette Paul.Traffic is light atm with Covid and the holidays.Come September the morning traffic going south on South Ealing Rd will be a nightmare and the resulting extra pollution and congestion on all those roads that lead into it.Good luck if you live on those roads!Add in the extra traffic on Windmill Road going down to that absolute JOKE of a reformed junction with the A4, where you can't go forward past traffic turning right onto the A4 (like before).

Nick Jenkins ● 1852d

And whilst we are on the subject, if: - "a clear objective [for closing Occupation Lane] is we want to discourage use of motorised transport except where necessary. This is particularly urgent because the evidence from elsewhere (and it’s a pretty obvious consequence of restrictions on public transport and people’s fears about using it) is that vehicle traffic quickly builds back to and in excess of pre-lockdown levels. If this happens in London the whole city is likely to come to a standstill" (Guy Lambert 26/6/20)  - then what about having a look at the extraordinary number of motor vehicle salesrooms which we have on the Great West Road through Brentford? With apologies to anyone who works there, but we have had to put up with the noise, dust and inconvenience of the redevelopment of the Mercedes Benz site at the junction of Clayponds Avenue and the A4 throughout the whole of the lockdown period. This has been compounded recently by night work on the stanchions for the overhead section of the motorway, so residents of the lower part of Clayponds Avenue and Springvale on the South side in particular have had no respite from the noise (except part of the weekend) since the start of lockdown!So I am thinking that if Hounslow Council are serious about trying to cut down on the amount of traffic going into London, then reducing the number of places selling (mainly large) new cars might be a starting place??? Just a thought.

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1867d

Fact is the Hospital generates a lot of traffic for ancillary purposes which brings in refuse trucks and delivery vehicles and service vehicles as well as ambulances and ramp ambulances and community transport vehicles. All will be affected by closing Occupation Lane as the Hospitals catchment area is Ealing.  All these movements will now have to got through the residential areas so and this is where the speed humps exist.  But the massive delays in South Ealing Road and Windmill Road as well as the increase other initiatives will have on the A4 will add to delays for these service vehicles which add to delays for patients and increase costs from wasted fuel to employees overtime. Knee-jerk is not the way to solve things, it's all been like this for good reason and none of these day to day things can change overnight without good alternatives up and running. There are not any, and none of it will be affordable anytime soon.

Raymond Havelock ● 1869d

Apologies for all of the 'typos' my spellcheck disabled itself.You are right when you say it is down to the residents, assuming that the 'consultation' is not as flawed as that for Church Street; which supposedly suported a closure despite,IIRC, 70% of respondents voting against the closure.If, as is planned, Occupation Lane is closed to all motorised traffic, I see no issue to making it 'Hospital Access Only/ No Through Road' monitored by CCTV for infringements.

N V Brooks ● 1870d

Ypu are right when you say it is down to the residents, assuming that the 'consultation' is not as flawed as that for Church Street which supposedly suported a closure despite,IIRC 70% of respondents voting against the closure.If, as is planned, Occupation Lane is closed to all motorised traffic, I see no issue to making it 'Hospital Accec Only/ No through road' monitored by CCTV for infringments.

N V Brooks ● 1870d

Why would you want Occupational Lane made into a dedicated entrance road for the hospital?Just after yo turn right out of the lane into Clayponds Avenue, directly to your right in a no through road part of Clayponds Gardens, then down the hill you come to another no through road on the right, another part of Clayponds Gardens.Carry on a bit further on Clayponds Avenue you come to a left hand turn in to Sterling Place and left at the roundabout, which is the entrance to the new housing estate built on the old Isolation Hospital site.Using the same Sterling Place and straight over the roundabout is the new Clayponds Hospital which is located at the end of that part of the road .That route does take vehicles over two speed bumps So wouldn't it make sense to make Occupational Lane one way going out onto Ealing Road and have the entrance from the A4, as it has only two speed humps going in that direction towards the hospital.I am no a Road Traffic Designer nor a resident of the Clayponds area, but I do have relatives still living there, and have very close links to the area.But that said, I can discuss the measures on this forum, but it will come down to the residents who actually live in the area to respond to the Consultation once measures are implemented and give there views of how they are working or not , including the NHS  management of the Clayponds Hospital as no doubt  Mercedes Benz will have some input, but lets hope they don't start using the area as car park like they did last year.

Bernard Allen ● 1870d

Plenty of ways to achieve the 'no rat run' objective without closing the road.I have detialed these, read the thread!

N V Brooks ● 1870d

Who said it was a cycle route, where does say that in black and white?I believe it’s a combination of things, one to stop the busy rat run Of vehicles using OL and CPA to The A4 to avoid the Ealing RoundaBout.Also to make the area safer for pedestrians and children to get to Lione Road School or any other school in the area.Where the cycling part comes in is that the Government wants to promote walking and cycling for short journeys rather than use your car.Disabled Drivers will still use their cars and have the same parking places, they may have to drive a bit further to get to the same place.I am just as inconvenienced as anyone else in the Hounslow Borough.

Bernard Allen ● 1870d

Which is why I made the suggestion to Cllr. Lambert that the speed humps are removed as part of his new cycle route.There are still in-patients for rehabilitation at Claypoands and the pandemic will not last forever meaning that the essentail therapy service will be restored.

N V Brooks ● 1870d

Thinking about the way in to Clayponds Gardens and the Hospital .From occupational Lane you have to drive over two speed humps in  Clayponds Avenue, also from the A4 you will have to drive over two speed humps to get to the hospital, so it doesn’t make a lot of difference which way you enter Clayponds Avenue.I am not up on the the way the stroke unit is working while the pandemic is on. But aren’t most stroke patients delt with at the Charring Cross stroke unit.

Bernard Allen ● 1870d

However as we are talking about the route to Clayponds Rehabilitation and CVA care unit I don't see where WMH has any relevance TBH.

N V Brooks ● 1870d

I can't think of a single speed hump on any reasonable, let alone most obvious, route from Braemar Road to West Middlesex Hospital. There have, over the years, been potholes aplenty however. Come to think of it, these aren't so obvious in nearby roads as they once were and so have now, presumably, been filled in.

Anne England ● 1870d

I don't think I need a crystal ball to predict chaos when Occupation Lane and Green Dragon Lane are both closed off.  Ealing Road will be gridlocked.  Residents of Chestnut Avenue and the Garths will be virtually imprisoned (which is what happened last time Occupation Lane was closed).  I recall someone I know saying that it took them 20  minutes to get out of Whitestile Road onto Ealing Road and down to the roundabout so obviously this affects all surrounding roads  not just the Clayponds side.  I also remember extra pressure put on Windmill Road by drivers trying to avoid Ealing Road.  I see no reason to think it would be any different this time.All these roads are in place for a reason.  Surely rat runs by their very nature actually alleviate traffic somewhere along the line.  Take them away and you create a bigger problem somewhere else.  These bonkers decisions always seem to be taken by people that are unaffected by them.  Don't get me started on humps in the road.  I too once had a trip to West Mid in an ambulance when I dislocated my shoulder in Braemar Road.  I have no idea what route the ambulance took but there seemed to be bumps every couple of yards and the pain was excruciating.  Whoever dreamt them up was an idiot.  Between humps and potholes drivers have no chance.

Bernadette Paul ● 1871d

So Guy, do you use a Tandem to take a relative or friend to a Hospital or clinic appointment?Will tandems be made available to those who regularly do?

Raymond Havelock ● 1871d

Don't accuse me of an 'harrumph'.I have given you practical suggestions to achieve your 'pro-cycling' (thinly veiled as traffic calming) measures while improving patient vehicular access to Clayponds Hospital.CCTV with ANPRRemoval of speed humpsOf course, a closed mind will ignore the suggestions and bluster on regardless to the detriment of hospital users.

N V Brooks ● 1871d

Might help if you read my posts NV rather than going straight into a harrumph.Same number of humps whichever way you go to Clayponds Hospital, and this is not about cycling though I'm sure bike users will welcome the change, which I believe pedestrians and residents will also welcome.

Guy Lambert ● 1871d

Is your reply aimed at me?Because I am in the similar situation to anyone who lives in Hounslow

Bernard Allen ● 1871d

RaymondOccupational Lane was an entrance road to the old Isolation hospital, which was demolish many years ago.I don't know where the newer small Hospital was built, but if the Lane was meant to be it's official way in surely the part of Clayponds Avenue between the Hospital and Ol should of been dedicated for the hospital use. When the Hospital was demolished is was under the jurisdiction of Ealing Council and no doubt part of the lane should have been done away with at the same time, but as there are a pedestrian alley through to popes lane, and the flats were built on the sludge pits, someone in charge though it may be better to leave it well alone.I wouldn't feel safe walking down OL, the speed that some vehicles drive down the lane and don't slow down to pass another vehicle coming in the other direction is dangerous.I have witnessed vans bumping up on the pavement to quickly get out of the way of an oncoming vehicle, I hope the manage to check that no one is walking on the pavement before they do that.You seem to feel very strongly about what the government has done, it's forcing councils across the uk to implement road changes at short notice and with very little planning.You really need to contact Ruth Cadbury MP for that area and voice your opinions to her.Going by whats happening in my area, I think her inbox is quiet full at the moment.This has been carried out by the Government because of the coronavirus pandemic to encourage Cycling, Walking rather than using a motor vehicle. In there minds, one way to discourage vehicle use, is to remove rat runs, and create cycle lanes, narrowing the roads in the process and encourage use of public transport. In other words discourage vehicle use, if this will ever work I don't know, but for someone who wants to be independent it's making it harder for me to get around.   

Bernard Allen ● 1871d

And I pointed out that speed humps are a nightmare for anyone travelling in an ambulance. been in one lately? I have. They are a nightmare despite the best endeavours of the drivers to overcome the short-sighted, often polically- motivated 'efforts' of party aparatchiks to 'calm' traffic.Never mind, I am sure that extending journey times for orthopaedic and CVA patients doesn't even figure on the 'promote cycling' checklist.Shameful.

N V Brooks ● 1871d

The assumption is that ALL people driving simply get into their cars and drive a short distance.There has not been one survey on what people actually use a car for.With so many businesses now looking at moving out of this part of London and relocating to areas of lower costs and space to expand many will have no choice but to return to using a car just to commute.Is it really responsible to make things as awkward as possible and thus damage what limited down time residents have for normal life?What are the consequences of seeing families less and not being able to get things done?All this has to be factored in. It is not a twee world with people working from a laptop and carrying no more than a small bag to work.Clearly those who advocate this initiatives don't carry anything to work or have others to look after.  I wish!Not everyone can walk or cycle safely or any sort of distance.We all live a lot longer but that does not mean our faculties last longer.Hips Knees and joints , Arthritis affects 1 in 3 over 60 and that's just one of many ailments that begin to restrict easy movement.Years ago people did not live long enough to enjoy retirement. Many just ended up pretty much confined to home and the furthest they got was a local shop or the post office. That now means a far longer journey just to find a Post Office.Pavements in most of this district are appalling in Both ealing and Hounslow boroughs. Falls are common for those who can't drive and back streets still poor with potholes and ruts. and the slime from Lime tree lines roads makes cycling really hazardous in the wet and dark. You've got to be on your toes all the time when out on the bike is several streets.  But no-one knows what people use their cars for . What they carry? Far too many assumptions are made.I walk, cycle and drive all based on what the needs are.  I take people to hospital appointments or my wife does, we've always done that.  We used to take a blind couple to Victoria Coach station for years for their annual holiday. That stopped because the charges are to much to bear.  They found taxis too costly and the tube and bus impossible with luggage and they aged like all of us.But these are all part of older life . If you are fit and fully able then you are lucky but for many working hard with little time spare takes it's toll and for many using a car is the only way to have some semblance of having a reasonable quality of life and attend to family needs.For many walking or cycling is desirable but impractical.

Raymond Havelock ● 1871d

If you take a close look at many streets there are routes that were not permitted speed humps for the very reason that ambulances could not access areas without huge risk to patients. So some streets that one would think ought to have speed humps or traffic calming don't.The later designs allow for the ambulances to straddle the humps but these don't work in narrower streets or single lane streets.But Occupation Lane is the dedicated access for Clayponds Hospital?So why not make it access only as far as Clayponds which at least will allow local patients and visitors, staff, ambulances and delivery vehicles.    With such large vehicles and small roads , how will refuse and recycling trucks get around with access blocked?If it's like Ealings solution it will require the removal of a great many permit parking spaces to allow manoeuvres. as well as Emergency vehicle access.Is this being made clear to residents or like Ealing being kept quiet about till it's done?

Raymond Havelock ● 1871d

Umm, as I pointed out it makes no difference to the orthopaedic and stroke patients but we mustn't let facts intrude.If the trial is successful, perhaps we can remove the speed humps on Clayponds Avenue in due course.

Guy Lambert ● 1871d

I thought that on the Green Dragon thread you said the CCTV was inexpensive, the humps could be removed - or is that too difficult a concept to grasp?Never mind let the poor bastards in the amublances suffer as long as the cyclists are OK.Can't wait to see the orthopaedic and stroke patients on the back of tandems!No point in trying to debate with someone with such a closed mind. 

N V Brooks ● 1872d

Of course we could, but as there are two speed humps between Occupation Lane and the Hospital turn off, exactly the same as the 2 between the turn off and the A4 it's debatable what this would achieve. CCTV with ANPR costs a lot more than a planter and does not provide the security to non-mechanical road users that a physical barrier does.

Guy Lambert ● 1872d

The point about ambulances and the lack of speed bumps is valid. I was recently conveyed under a blue light to Ealing Hospital and the speed bumps and humps en-route were agony.Surey it is not beyond the wit of LBH to make Occupation Lane one way from South Ealing Road to the Clayponds Hospital entrance. Progress beyond this point could easily be restricted to 'Emergency Services Vehicles Only' and monitored by an inexpensive (according to Cllr. Lambert) CCTV system as is being used on Green Dragon Lane.Just takes a bit of thought and the will to make it happen.

N V Brooks ● 1872d

RaymondI tried the Unadopted road avenue, butt doesn't apply when the government gets involved, as one of the measures adopted is to cut a road in half, so now we have to see if it works or not.  The Road being owned privately is probably a different thing, which I know nothing about.But when you turn into Occupational Lane, there are two small stone houses. My family use to live in the house on the right, which was part of the sludge pits that  Clayponds Gardens was built on.That's how they came up with the name The last time there was a boundary Change the most of the old flats had a W5 postcode and some still do, But they were transferred from Ealing to Hounslow, some were given TW post codes as others for reason none to who ever renamed W5.Now how far the boundary goes back and does in include the Lane I don't no, it will be interesting to find out.Regarding the smooth ride for ambulances, surly the need for the traffic humps will be no more and they could be taken away making a smoother surface for all residents.From Hounslow Council in reply to an emailBy way of information, these schemes are a few of a number of similar projects being implemented across the borough, as experimental trials as part of the council’s Streetspace programme, in response to new central government guidance relating to the COVID-19 crisis - this guidance requires authorities to make changes to their networks ‘within a matter of weeks’ which precludes widespread public engagement prior to implementation. That said, we welcome feedback such as yours during the trial period (which will help us determine whether any of these changes should be made permanent or not), and have subsequently created a Streetspace feedback consultation to gather all related feedback/suggestions in one place so it can be reviewed, and given proper consideration by the officers working on these schemes - should you wish to share any further thoughts on our COVID-19 Streetspace transport schemes, we’d appreciate it if you could use the Streetspace feedback survey to do so. Street-space Survey Below         https://haveyoursay.hounslow.gov.uk/traffic-and-transport/streetspace-feedback/

Bernard Allen ● 1872d

In his posting on 24th June Raymond states that all local residential traffic will be forced onto Windmill and Ealing roads.Surely the Government's initiative is to discourage such local traffic and encourage people to walk and cycle.20 years ago I discovered that it was quicker to walk north to the Piccadilly line than to wait for a bus. Having taken up cycling again at the age of 69 , I notice that the traffic in the residential streets within the area described is less, 20mph restrictions oblige cars to travel more slowly and I feel safe as a cyclist. Even with lockdown easing we continue to see families and individuals with the confidence to walk in the narrowest of these streets. People have reclaimed them and some of us are happy about new restrictions. There are two sides to every coin.

David R Rowlands ● 1872d

and part of it is listed as Unadopted road and was the original entrance to the Hospital and remains part of the NHS.

Raymond Havelock ● 1872d

According to the map.Occupation Lane is under Ealing not Hounslow. It is lit by LBE and was resurfaced by LBE according to their listings of works.  it also has a W5 postcode.

Raymond Havelock ● 1872d

Have just been to Clayponds Hospital.it seems no-one has consulted the Hospital at all.  Ramp Ambulances use Occupation Lane as it has no speed humps or swerving for frail patients.  This hospital is for frail and those needing physiotherapy. No thought seems to have been given about access for those many out patients. or those staff who work in the anti social hours and when its wet and dark.I suppose they have to walk or cycle too?Careless knee-jerk messing without proper full thought.Needs proper consultation and a range of solutions.

Raymond Havelock ● 1872d

Mrs Deborah BurnsI have already Held my hand up to say I do not live on the estate, but visit very regularly to a disabled relative, who suffers with a breathing condition that was really eased during lock down. But now more traffic is starting to use it they are starting to feel the effects of the rat running vehicles from occupational Lane to the A4 to avoid the Ealing roundabout.I understand your point of view, that if any change to the scheme will increase the length of time it will take for a resident to gain access to the estate. I have a traffic scheme that will be implemented where I live in Chiswick, Which instead of me being able to use or local roads.Going home from Brentford I will have to use the A4 down to Hogarth roundabout turn onto the A316 Great Chertsey Road to get to Dukes Meadows, which at the best of times is solid with traffic.My normal route is very quick, but is also used as a rat run so if I still use it and enter passed  a CCTV camera at one end then go through the CCTV camera at the other end I will be taken as a rat running vehicle, so end up with a fine As you no doubt know this has been brought in by the Government, for the local authority to use an emergency traffic order to implement some schemes that make it safer for Pedestrians and cyclist to use the road and restrict car use.I think the object of the order is to implement the schemes first and consult during the temporary six months.If the measures are unworkable they will either be taken away or amended. Having said all that It docent mean I agree will everything the Council is going to do.Although I don't like it, I can see the what the emergency order is all about, if you had any consultation before the measures went in, it would probably take until next year before anything is done, as there are so many views from local residents to consider. The Residents on the estate will have to get together and work out what works best for you, as I find the rat run can hold me up for some considerable time when entering from the A4 while trying to visit my relative.

Bernard Allen ● 1872d

I am sorry Guy, but I have to disagree why should we have to drive all the way down South Ealing Road, waiting for possibly/probably several changes of traffic lights then along the A4 Great West Road and then back up Clayponds Avenue to our homes? Why not just make Chestnut Avenue access only (including the rest of the Estate and not restrict the turning and if that is difficult to 'police' then that is the Council's problem not the Residents.) Why weren't all these things considered before the 'experiment' was agreed - rather than making changes on the hoof?  I suspect very few, if any, of the people from 'on high' who made this decision have ever been along Occupation Lane. Yet again Hounslow Council prove themselves to be totally anti car drivers and anti residents who have to use their cars for various reasons. You should be able to be pro-cycling and walking, without being so anti-car. Please look at my suggestion of 'opening up Clayponds Gardens for Pedestrians and Cyclists and leave Occupation Lane for the motor vehicles.And BTW I have been counting the traffic in Clayponds avenue for the last 10 minutes (+/-3.00pm) and there have been only a few cars a minute - which mainly seem to be accessing the estate and 1 ambulance. Indeed what about Emergency vehicle access!! If an Ambulance or Fire Engine needs to access the Estate from South Ealing Road above Occupation Lane, the detour round the A4 could add several minutes - of precious life saving time. Please let us reconsider and/or monitor this decision very closely.

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1872d

The changes we have agreed as a result of comments here will in my opinion avoid the danger of Chestnut Avenue being used as an alternative route to avoid Ealing Road traffic lights. If, as someone suggests, a minority ignore the restriction it will not be difficult to enforce and I strongly doubt it will persist.This is an experimental closure in response to instructions from central government, though I have long thought that restricting through traffic in Clayponds Avenue desirable.If it doesn't work, we will reverse the changes but it's good to see some people welcome them - I think that opinion will grow.The residents of Green Dragon lane - or the only ones who I have heard from, are delighted with the change there, which has a similar objective.

Guy Lambert ● 1872d

I agree - and see my further comments to other respondents. As a resident of Clayponds Avenue I have already written to the Traffic Departments for Brentford and Ealing (this is a boundary road so both need to be involved) and pointed out the pressure this 'experiment' will put on Chestnut Avenue; the fact that very few people walk along Occupation Lane, I wouldn't and definitely not at night and even less likely if there were no passing cars; and for those who do need to drive the inconvenience of the detour especially if via the A4 and South Ealing Road.  And, just help me here, which bit of 'to create more space for businesses to safely reopen' actually applies to Occupation Lane or indeed Clayponds Avenue??

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1872d

Agree

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1872d

This is about the use of Occupation Lane as a rat run. The lane leads to a purely residential area, but it is used to avoid the minor inconvenience of keeping to the main roads. This is not acceptable for a residential area.The ninety degrees corner at the end of the long straight is a perennial accident hotspot, with the walls and bollards at the end being knocked down on multiple occasions. The council routinely has to rebuild the bollards, and the residents have rebuilt their wall on at least two occasions. One driver was killed. The corner is also at a crossroads of footpaths, along which residents walk their kids to school. It is so obvious that this road should at the very least be access only, but the difficulty of enforcement of such a solution makes the current proposal the only practical one.Consideration should be given to Chestnut Av. This could at least be access only, with the same enforcement issues, although this road already has traffic calming measures, is obviously residential, and due to its location is less of a temptation to those inconsiderate folk who might use it to avoid the main road traffic lights.

John Dickinson ● 1872d

Guy, Sorry, I should probably have copied you on my emails to the Traffic Departments - I will do so now. However whilst I know this is 'only' a trial, as there don't appear to be any measurable outcomes, how will we know if the experiment is a success? This closure is not just about improving the situation for residents of Clayponds Avenue at peak times - which I accept can be frustrating but is only a relatively short period of the day - it is about inconveniencing all of the Residents of the Clayponds Estate who need to drive who will now have to use a longer - in time and distance - route for access to and from South Ealing or most worryingly put potentially big pressure on Chestnut Avenue - a road with houses, narrow passing spaces and considerably more people that live (!) or walk along Occupation Lane. We should have been properly consulted about this proposal and particularly the objectives of the scheme.

Mrs Deborah Burns ● 1872d

I agree I think it’s a great idea. People tend to rev up coming down occupation lane and then bomb down Clayponds Ave. If it doesn’t work you can always make Clayponds Ave a no through road where it meets the A4 and that would be the end of any rat run. This is a more sensible approach and worth trying. I suspect anyone who protests is a regular user of  the “rat run”

Philip Baker ● 1872d

I have found the route from Occupation lane through the estate to the A4 completely solid with traffic trying to miss the Ealing Road roundabout.My relative has already found the fumes from the build up of vehicles is already beginning to affect their breathing.So I am in favor of stopping this rat run. I would have no difficulty  in accessing the estate with the restrictions in force. Then I am using a car, if you have a larger vehicle it maybe more difficult.But even a transit Van should have no difficulty entering the estate.

Bernard Allen ● 1872d

I have relatives there who are elderly so drive over to take them stuff every week.This is quiet most of the day and the biggest problem is vans and trucks using the route.  Except in the peaks. So why is it not just a peak time tidal closure at the A4 Junction?The the rest of the day residents and their visitors can be able to get on with things.

Raymond Havelock ● 1872d

Its really good that someone has listened to a local resident about the new temporary traffic systems.I can see a problem with the no right hand turn in Clayponds avenue.It allows traffic to still travel along Chestnut Avenue until they reach the sign, some will disregard it and still turn right, the more law abiding drivers will turn left looking for a way out.If Occupation Lane is closed, then there will no way out of the estate, so I know what I would do, turn left out of chestnut Ave quickly turn right into Carville Crescent, then reverse back out into Clayponds Avenue, then you can drive straight down to the lights on the A4.I am no traffic engineer but would a No Left Hand turn Sign into Chestnut Ave sited on the Ealing Road be slightly better?Or make Occupational lane one way out of the estate to give a stray vehicle a way out and also aide the residents.I have an interest in the area as I have a disable member of my family living in the estate. 

Bernard Allen ● 1873d

You make a good point, Bernadette.I discussed it with traffic and we have agreed to add a no right turn restriction from Chestnut into Clayponds Avenue, which should deter through traffic from the whole area.

Guy Lambert ● 1873d

With Ealings plan to completely lock out much of Little Ealing and South Ealing and Hounslows plan to lock out Occupation Lane and now Part of Junction Road, almost all local residential traffic will be forced onto South Ealing Road and Windmill Road. This in turn will stuff up the local bus services which are already severely restricted and the 65 in particular is a constant victims of road works delays up and down the route.This method of forcing people is so very very wrong and it potentially with thousands of redundancies in the offing could destroy peoples quality of life from the huge amount of time wasted trying to get to work- the reality is people may have to travel far longer distances to work and Councils seem hell bent on impeding it in every possible way.And vehicles do not contribute to a third of CO2 emissions, Humans do.

Raymond Havelock ● 1874d

Sorry but I don't get it.  How does closing Occupation benefit any of those roads?  Traffic will now totally bung up Chestnut Avenue leading in turn to Clayponds Avenue.  Traffic never went round Carville Crescent (why would it?).  Occupation Lane has no living residents to disturb whereas Chestnut Avenue does.  Some time ago Occupation Lane was shut for some reason and it was a pure nightmare trying to get in or out of Chestnut Avenue so I really cannot see this idea benefiting anyone living on the estate.  Perhaps making Occupation Lane one way (as has been suggested) would be the better plan.

Bernadette Paul ● 1875d

The closure is not to benefit the residents of Occupation Lane, who as far as I know are all deceased.It is to benefit the residents of Clayponds Avenue, Clayponds Gardens, Carville Crescent etc.

Guy Lambert ● 1875d

Not to mention the Spooks from the adjoining cemetery

Raymond Havelock ● 1875d

Occupation Lane not Clayponds ave. That can be accessed easier from further down South Ealing Road.Occupation Lane barely has a pavement and has been notorious for muggings and low level crime for decades

Raymond Havelock ● 1875d

"This is the last place anyone would walk down especially in the Dark."Absolute nonsense. Have you ever been to Clayponds Avenue?

Guy Lambert ● 1875d

This is the last place anyone would walk down especially in the Dark.But with South Ealing Road doomed with major works for a considerable time this will cause a lot of economic damage and simply increase the pollution on streets of higher density of people living and shopping and walking along.Not very clever . Just idealistic .

Raymond Havelock ● 1875d

Julie - it's an experimental closure in line with government guidelines.Normally we consult before making a change but we've been asked/told to go ahead with changes and in effect see how they work and what people feel about them.From what I have seen in Clayponds Avenue, the majority - at least at peak times  - of traffic is people cutting out the Ealing Road/A4 junction whilst heading to or from Ealing. Most turn left at the bottom of Clayponds Avenue, putting stress on the pedestrian crossing there which is very busy in the mornings with schoolkids.Let's see how it works in practice: I'm guessing residents of Clayponds Avenue in particular will be very happy to have their road free of the pollution, congestion and danger from those who can no longer use it as a short cut, but time will tell.

Guy Lambert ● 1876d