Forum Topic

e-scooters

Does anyone understand the regulation governing the use of e-scooters? Whilst a welcome innovation to reducing the number of cars on the road instead of walking, it seems only a matter of time before someone is going to seriously hurt themselves or others. A rushed through scheme that involves using only rented scooters on roads and not pavements surely is no answer to all those who happily scoot on their own already purchased item, anywhere and everywhere!

Adrian Court ● 1863d41 Comments

"e-scooters will be insured and the rider has to have a driving licence, so they should know about traffic and road signs."They only have to have a provisional licence.  Pity the same rules don't apply to cyclists.

Steve Taylor ● 1841d

"Who is liable if someone gets hit on a pavement or in a Park?"Same as if you get hit by a bicycle on a pavement or in a Park.

Steve Taylor ● 1841d

As I understand it, it's still illegal to ride a private e-scooter on any public highway, road or pavement. The trial rental e-scooters will be insured and the rider has to have a driving licence, so they should know about traffic and road signs. I can't see what contribution e-scooters will make to healthy 'active' transport, compared with walking and cycling.

Peter Evans ● 1841d

'They can use the cycle tracks CS9 etc. No need to pay for anything extra.'I have visions of scooters, bikes and pedestrians all converging on Amhurst Gardens etc. Think I'll stick to a car, it'll be a damned site safer! Recipe for disaster or what?The government - if they had anything about them - could actually embrace this way of getting around, but as usual they bugger it up, the genie is already out of the bottle with e-scooters.

Vanessa Smith ● 1841d

Seen this morning in Bell Road Hounslow - and driving along the middle of the road - two people on an e-scooter! My husband commented - well at least they stopped at the traffic lights!

Vanessa Smith ● 1841d

Meaning what is going to be in place to enforce those who do not use the allocated loadspace?And how do you get to and from the cycleway?  Can't see many stopping and carrying it from there.As they ride anywhere now what is going to change that?Who is liable if someone gets hit on a pavement or in a Park?

Raymond Havelock ● 1841d

"So what is going to be in place and hows it going to be paid for?"They can use the cycle tracks CS9 etc. No need to pay for anything extra.

Steve Taylor ● 1841d

From the Leaderpage"Although no announcement has been made, a local councillor has indicated to us that e-scooters will be permitted across Brentford and Chiswick from next month. It is argued that they may provide an alternative to public transport and help avoid a car-based recovery."

Steve Taylor ● 1841d

LBH MUST ask ALL it's council tax paying residents.It's already a nightmare with users on pavements and popping out of corners on the roads with no lights or anything.It's unenforceable now. So what is going to be in place and hows it going to be paid for?Stupid and irresponsible to even be considering such an idea.

Raymond Havelock ● 1842d

Here's an extract from a London Councils briefing on forthcoming e-scooter trials:E-scooters are currently illegal for use in any public place, however they are legal to sell, and demand for these vehicles is growing, with strong sales from UK retailers. Many cities across the world have significant rental markets and the Department for Transport (DfT) has recently consulted on allowing rental companies to make them available in time-limited trials across the UK and made relevant regulations, which came into force on 4 July 2020. The DfT plan to review the evidence generated during trials in anticipation of further changes to the legal status of these vehicles. London needs to be focused on how to maximise the benefits of walking and cycling, with safety remaining the number one priority in the capital. However, we also recognise that the ongoing coronavirus pandemic has changed the case for e-scooters in the UK, in particular the need to provide alternatives to crowded public transport and avoiding a car-based recovery. If safety issues can be addressed, e-scooters may be able to play a role in helping London get moving again. These trials will give us an opportunity to see what the best-fit for London is in terms of e-scooter use and collectively shape future policies on how they are used on our roads. BackgroundIn early May 2020, the Transport Secretary announced that, to provide additional transport options during the Covid-19 recovery, planned trials of rental e-scooters would be brought forward, from 2021 to summer 2020. The DfT wants year-long trials to begin by the end of August and will use them to gather evidence to inform future policy advice and legislation on the legal status of e-scooters. The main outline of the trial includes (but is not limited to): Starting before the end of summer 2020 and run for 12 months:E-scooters will require insurance and riders will need at least a provisional driver’s licenceE-scooters will have a maximum speed of 15.5mph (but could be lower if a trial area decides to implement a lower limit)E-scooters will not be allowed on the pavementLBH is considering whether to seek to be part of the trial.

Guy Lambert ● 1842d

Thanks forthat info Steve,maybe rules should be changed seeing as there is a sharp increase in use of same

Jean Harrison ● 1842d

As with bicycles, e-scooters do not legally have to be equipped with speedometers so riders will not know how fast they are going.

Steve Taylor ● 1842d

If anyone, it would be Living Streets NOT Safer Streets that would campiagn for a 5mph limit. AFAIK Raymond they have not.

N V Brooks ● 1848d

How do they know how fast they are going at least cars have that capability and can alert people as they approach will hire scooters have bells ?

Jean Harrison ● 1848d

Unfortunately the culture currently has led to give and inch take a mile and it's so contradictory.Closing roads so people can play in roads even though vehicles will still be moving about.Rear a genration o0pf children who don't even get taught kerb drill anymore and then hell is let loose when one comes a cropper.Close roads to hospital with not thought to the fact that infirm people are generally their main custom.Yet allow motorised devices without safety and inexperienced riders and within days they are now not on roads but pavements.Daft upside down and inside out policies are one thing, Daft and common sense bereft people are another.

Raymond Havelock ● 1848d

"Wait till it's start's turning colder and wet."yes - as with bicycles and Motor Bikes, there will be a lot fewer out and about. But at the moment with the good weather and the fact that people are reluctant to use public transport, the use of e-scooters is growing daily. People are not concerned about them being illegal. If cyclists can break the law with impunity -  e-scooter users will do the same. it's open season. 

Steve Taylor ● 1848d

Good question. Hire s can be insured as well as the Hirer therefore the user is known and has to accept the responsibility.Hiring makes sense as if used irresponsibility there is a better chance of being identified.I understand they are also chipped so the hirers knows exactly where they have been and when.

Raymond Havelock ● 1848d

The only Safer Streets campaign I'm aware of is about crime and has nothing whatever to do with speed limits.I don't know who's claiming 5mph is too fast for cars. Local authorities are trying to limit speeds to 20mph in urban back roads and near schools but they have no powers to enforce and police have very little inclination.Perhaps Raymond could explain where his Safer Streets story has come from - it sounds like nonsense to me.I have concerns myself about e-scooters. As far as I'm aware they are still completely illegal on roads, pavements or cycle tracks whether they have a bell and lights or not.There are discussions in government as I understand it about trials of rental e-scooters and these specifically being legalised for roads. I believe it is proposed they will have an overall 15mph speed limit and a speed limit of 8mph in certain areas

Guy Lambert ● 1849d

Wait till it's start's turning colder and wet.

Martyn Newstead ● 1851d

"To be legal they must have clearly visible lights, bell or a horn, brakes and be stable on undulating surfaces ( which is most roads)"But if you hire one it is legal - if you buy one it isn't?  How does that work?

Steve Taylor ● 1851d

To be legal they must have clearly visible lights, bell or a horn, brakes and be stable on undulating surfaces ( which is most roads)Small wheels make this very dangerous, ever rut and pot hole and even a slightly uneven paver can cause a scooter motorised or not to deviate of course. Fine if just playing about but in serious traffic and amongst other cyclists pedestrians and public services vehicles, plain stupid and irresponsible.Given how evident the lack of a bell, lights or mudguards are on bicycles, adding more risk to all road users from feet to wheels is indicative of how back to front  all this spending is on infrastructure when safety and training should be in place first.Don't see much of that.

Raymond Havelock ● 1852d

e-scooters are here to stay. The sooner they legalise them for cycle lanes, the better for everyone.

Steve Taylor ● 1852d

5mph too fast for cars but e scooters do 15mph very strange. I suspect the brakes on a car are better than an e scooters as well.

Nicholas Beard ● 1852d

"Did you buy an e-scooter then Steve?"Not yet but I have tried my daughter's. They are great and a great way to save the planet. My wife is going for an e-bike but I am sticking to push pedals.

Steve Taylor ● 1855d

Given that the Safer Streets campaign of who Local councils seem to be using their own rather dubious generated statistics have been claiming 5 MPH is too fast for cars in streets, very noticeable that the same organisation is completely silent over bicycles, and scooters and e-scotters on pavements in residential streets or shopping streets.As ever double standards and hidden agendas.

Raymond Havelock ● 1856d

I understood that riders of the rental ones on the roads need to have at least a provisional driving licence and that the speed is limited to 15mph which is too much IMO.

Philippa Bond ● 1856d

Did you buy an e-scooter then Steve?

Philippa Bond ● 1856d

These are now all over the place, on pavements and footpaths  parks and roads, no lights, no bells no road sense and very dangerous.Unbelievably dangerous to pedestrians and all other road users. Northfields Avenue is particularly bad.

Raymond Havelock ● 1857d

Piece printed in Evening Standard on Wednesday. Government made scooters legal to rentbut privately owned ones can't be ridden on roads, cycle lanes or pavements, question how to tell the difference between private and rented or am l just being stupid not understanding  what they actually mean.

Jean Harrison ● 1858d

This morning I saw an e-scooter rider whizzing up the High Street past Barclays, no helmet and head bowed as he tapped at his phone. Quite a hazard to himself and others at that speed. Scooters have such tiny wheels they are highly unstable and hard to stop quickly when compared with bicycles. Whatever the other rule changes, I'd like to see all e-scooters limited to 10mph or less - that would reduce the danger a lot.

Eric Baker ● 1858d

brewwey??  Slip of the finger - not too many G&Ts - unfortunately! Apologies - brewery.

Vanessa Smith ● 1861d

"Carry a dinner knife and its a weapon. Idiot on earphones on a scooter and it's not.Yet both carry the potential to kill or mame."Yep - same goes for bicycles. No insurance and a means to kill or maim.

Steve Taylor ● 1861d

The Govy has been running a consultation on the use of e-transport devices and it was still open as of last week. So how all of a sudden it's now permissible when the date will not have yet been collated seems rather reckless.Then again so are a lot of other decisions using Covid as an excuse.

Raymond Havelock ● 1861d

Bit unfair to local councillors there - this legislation is down to the government - who, let's be honest, couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewwey!If e-scooters are to be allowed then some sort of appropriate insurance should be required and safety gear for the rider.

Vanessa Smith ● 1861d

Rental scooters have insurance I understand. However private scooters are illegal to use on the road. I wonder how many users will be stopped, and will they have their scooters confiscated? If we see an illegal scooter do we phone the police?

Nicholas Beard ● 1862d

One can only hope they mow down a few councillors and politicians and then a little common sense might sink into their thick skulls.No insurance and a means to kill ands name.Carry a dinner knife and its a weapon. Idiot on earphones on a scooter and it's not.Yet both carry the potential to kill or mame.An uninsured motor vehicle driver is prosecuted if caught or reported.  This country is drifting into insanity. Led by the keepers of the asylum. Politicians.

Raymond Havelock ● 1862d

Massive increase in sales for e-scooters. The answer is to allow them to use cycle lanes where available. Many will argue that they have been a Godsend when avoiding public transport due to Covid. We have to learn to live with them and embrace the fact they are low impact on the environment. My guess is that if you are hit by one you will be in the same position as being hit by a bicycle whereby if the cyclist rides off you have little recourse justice!! 

Steve Taylor ● 1862d

I am guessing that with a rented one details will have been taken so the rider should be liable for any loss or damage to any one else.But will that be provable? Unlikely.

Raymond Havelock ● 1862d

Private e scooters are illegal. I wonder if one hits you in your car is it your fault automatically, as is the case with a rented one?

Nicholas Beard ● 1863d

Several accidents in Hammersmith where the police now have officers to tackle Cyclist who ignore road regulations and other motioned devices. Problem is no insurance and no means of identification of both machine and user.Not helped by poor road surfacers and pavements sending scooters easily out of control.

Raymond Havelock ● 1863d

Agree - there are already too many about - and just who is going to enforce these weird regulations? I just wonder what idiot seriously thought anyone would take any notice of this when so many people already own an e-scooter. Should have regulated them all, some form of insurance (affordable) and crash helmets to be worn, and just where they can ride them. Typical of this governmetn - look we're doing something - it's sh*t - but we're with it. Hopeless! Too slow to catch a cold this lot.

Vanessa Smith ● 1863d