Forum Topic

The truth re Gunnersbury Park Bowls Club

It is important for people to know the truth, not CIC propaganda, so here is a rebuttal of some points in Cllr Lambert's statement re the club:'the bowls club has been wound up by the members/committee' - trying to make it sound as if it was our decision; in fact it was forced upon us by the CIC who ordered us to be out by Jan 2020'it had 22 members of whom 12 were active' - there was in fact a petition signed by 21 playing members who wanted the club to be allowed to continue'They maintained the green themselves with some help from Capel Manor' - the vast majority of the work was carried out by the members; there was occasionally some help from Capel Manor students who in exchange benefited from learning greenkeeping skills'the lease called for them to maintain the clubhouse, however the CIC stepped in to do so at times at a cost of around £2 per annum' - three longstanding members say they have no idea where this claim came from; there was no regular contribution from the CIC; in fact no one can remember any contribution except something to do with some fire alarm/equipment'they believed membership would grow after the delayed sports hub was completed but the development is many months late' - CIC should have kept a proper check on working practices and the (lack of) progress. The delays were not our fault, so couldn't the CIC have waited a few months longer to give us a chance to grow the membership?'Most of the bowlers have moved on to other clubs or retired' - not because we wanted to, but forced to retire in the case of those of us without cars who want to respect the instruction not to travel on public transport unnecessarily'It's not clear there would be anyone to fix the green' - a number of volunteers have offered to do so. Before the club was kicked out Capel Manor offered to take over the green maintenance provided the club was allowed to remain there. The CIC wouldn't even consider it.'The CIC is supposed to grow the use of the park' - how does killing off one of its longest-established activities contribute to that? Why could no other place in the park be considered for the pitch and putt so both activities could have co-existed?'pitch and putt mooted to attract 3000 players per year' - apart from the wildly optimistic numbers, if golf is so important to the park, why was the previous pitch and putt eliminated rather than relocated?

Bela Cunha ● 1842d24 Comments

As you know, I never said either of those things were lies. They were Jennifer Selig's words and, as she herself acknowledged, she doesn't know what she's talking about.

Bela Cunha ● 1834d

It was not a lie.

Guy Lambert ● 1835d

I know it's the middle of the night - Bela apologies for mis-spelling your name.  Fully agree I know nothing of the Bowls Club but it seems such a waste that it cannot be used.  I believed Cllr Lambert when he said on here that he has spoken with you and tried to intercede with the CIC.  Was that a lie?  It seems ridiculous that the CIC should be so bloody minded and obdurate on this subject.  Back to bed and no more from me on the death of bowling in G.Park.

Jennifer Selig ● 1836d

I wonder what Jennifer Selig would like me to apologise for? For correcting what was untrue in Cllr Lambert's statement? (I made a point of adding that an honest person assumes that those they are dealing with are honest too and will believe what they're told when perhaps they sometimes shouldn't.)Or does she want me to apologise for saying that there's no point in bothering to attempt something which is impossible (reinstating the old bowls club)?And, as for her advice that I should gather a group together and start again, I'm afraid I cannot restart something that I never stopped. This lady knows nothing about what's been going on regarding this matter (and how diplomatically or otherwise) and the number of people who have been and are working tirelessly to try to achieve what is possible: to restore the bowling green to a usable standard so that it doesn't deteriorate irreparably over the winter and is lost to the park for ever.This lady does not know me. Perhaps before pontificating about frocks and shouting, she might take care to spell my name properly.

Bela Cunha ● 1836d

For goodness sake how many of these empty properties are there?  At a time when additional housing is urgently required it seems utter madness not to utilise this source of ready built houses.  Where is Lead Cllr C.Smart when you need her - she surely should get on the case

Jennifer Selig ● 1836d

JeanThe empty housing that used to house local authority employees was flagged up in a conversation in 2010,.These house are not listed on the Hounslow list of local authority housing stock, they are on another list, which I have forgotten the name.But in 2010 there was quite a few of them and Hounslow started to do some up to sell. The proceeds from the sale provided the money to do another property up, and so on.If I remember correctly the council fell foul on one property that need so much doing to it, there may of been a problem with funding.But soon after,  the council had a lot of discussions about these property’s , then it all went quiet. I think the idea crashed and burned.But since about 2010 , I have had no involvement with the council So I don’t know if all the old ex employees property’s were ever identified

Bernard Allen ● 1836d

Jean H re that empty house - how about contacting the Councillor for housing - she's supposed to be moving heaven and earth getting more housing for the needy constituents:- Councillor Corinna Smart66 Castle RoadIsleworthTW7 6QS      07866 784723Download Councillor Corinna Smart contact details as VCardDownload Councillor Corinna Smart contact details as a CSV filecorinna.smart@hounslow.gov.uk

Jennifer Selig ● 1836d

This is nothng to do ith me personally but firstly may I suggest that Bella should apologise to Guy Lambert and re ask him to intercede with the CIC.  Also why doesn't she and a group of people wanting this green opened for them, start again with the CIC.  Not much use shouting one's frock off on here.  A bit more diplomacy and smoothing of feathers perhaps??  Worth a try as it sounds an admirable cause.

Jennifer Selig ● 1836d

Surely in the present situation making the most of any safe public facility when it's never been needed more for local people should be a priority?It's a brilliant and simple idea to utilise the green for non competition practice and probably give opportunities to others to have a go for the first time.The CIC or Parks management seem to be completely insensitive or arrogant towards the local people of South Ealing, Acton Town, Gunnersbury and Brentford.Those who have always used and supported the park and endured 50 years of neglect but still a good park.The Health and Safety stuff is a bit of a smokescreen cop out.  It was all OK while serious building works were being carried out on threes sides of its access, that is now only one side. The CIC could have closed it at anytime in the last 2 years if that was the case.  Works in the vicinity are minimal now.Dumping concrete on the green reminds me of the Firestone Debacle to prevent it being listed.That should resonate with Councillors to ensure the same does not recur.The green and clubhouse could be put to good use and a club can be reinstated as it's less than 6 months and the lockdown has used such things.I do hope this gets moved on as far too many local people are now heed in and we have a 3/4 fenced off Park that is all but useless.That has to be looked at more closely.

Raymond Havelock ● 1836d

I did indeed say that resuscitating the bowls club as it had been did not seem to me a viable proposition because all our equipment had been sold, including the machines for greenkeeping, several members, upset and demoralised by the intransigent and mean-spirited way the club had been treated by the CIC had decided to give up altogether and some others had joined other clubs. However, I would never have said it wasn't worth bothering to try to restore the green for roll-ups as that was precisely what I was and still am continuing to fight for. When I asked for permission to do this, I was given a ridiculous reason to justify access being denied. There has been wide expression of disgust at how the club was treated and a huge wave of offers of support both moral and practical. I am assured by the gardeners that the green could be restored to a usable standard. Anyone would think we're asking for the moon or something totally unreasonable! All we want is to restore an amenity that the CIC apparently would rather watch abandoned and deteriorating. Perhaps Cllr Lambert could indeed broker a solution for this limited aim.

Bela Cunha ● 1837d

I did indeed say that resuscitating the bowls club as it had been did not seem to me a viable proposition because all our equipment had been sold, including the machines for greenkeeping, several members, upset and demoralised by the intransigent and mean-spirited way the club had been treated by the CIC had decided to give up altogether and some others had joined other clubs. However, I would never have said it wasn't worth bothering to try to restore the green for roll-ups as that was precisely what I was and still am continuing to fight for. I was given a ridiculous reason why access was denied. There has been an enormous wave of disgust at how the club was treated and a huge wave of offers of support both moral and practical. I am assured by the gardeners that the green could be restored to a usable standard. Anyone would think we're asking for the moon or something totally unreasonable! All we want is to restore an amenity that the CIC apparently would rather watch abandoned and deteriorating. Perhaps Cllr Lambert could indeed broker a solution for this limited aim.

Bela Cunha ● 1837d

Just to be clear. I spoke to Bela before writing that post, because I had seen her complaints on various social media and wanted to see what could be done.I offered to work with the CIC to try and get the green opened for 'rolldowns' (is that the right term?) which she had originally posted had been refused for safety reasons.She basically told me not to bother because as far as she was concerned it was a lost cause because of what she sees as the hostility of the CIC management. I am not a spokesperson for the CIC or for the bowlers, just somebody seeing if anything can be done (I have also been in contact with some of the trustees)I resent being accused of lying and spin when my intention has always been to help broker a solution.I have now set the record somewhat straight and would urge those who want a different outcome to engage with the CIC management or trustees. That's what they are there for.

Guy Lambert ● 1837d

If the bowls club has not completely died please let us know how we can help to develop the club and grow its membership

Rosalind Lister ● 1837d

A relation of mine was chief superintendent of the park many years ago and lived in the house on the corner by Popes lane and that house has been empty for years, what a waste, do those in charge even know of its existence?

Jean Harrison ● 1837d

Laughingly 'Community Interest Company'  - if ever there was a misnomer that's it! Another sign of the control freakery exhibited all over the place by Hounslow council. I should think the very idea of anything 'independent' frightened the bejesus out of them! As in so many other areas in this borough, it seems to be so many voluntary groups versus Hounslow, directly the community tries to engage you get obfuscation and piffle, you'd think the opportunity to save money and at the same time work WITH people would be welcomed with open arms - well you'd be wrong. You will find obstruction and negativity at every turn.

Vanessa Smith ● 1840d

Trouble is with so many of these organisations are the fact that those appointed are poodles of politicians and cut from the same cloth.They are rarely able to operate to think any other way than conditioned to and are usually out of their depth on issues and then end up relying on income and funding.If Gunnersbury had followed a more inclusive attitude and approach to local people than going for marketing the place as though its Osterley House or Chiswick House then it would have been able to draw on volunteers and goodwill. But it seems all that has been pushed away and local people seen as a hindrance to be tolerated but not embraced.If it's not the case, it certainly seems like that.  I hoped it would get better and the basics fixed and tided and maintained better but the place looked awful last time we went there apart from around the Corner nearest the museum.The Sports facility just looks completely overblown and needs big trees around it to hide it's awful silhouette.

Raymond Havelock ● 1840d

I don't even know what the letters CIC stand for, but they sound horrible people.

Mike Paterson ● 1841d

Yes. Many of the problems in the governance of Gunnersbury Park in the past arose from the fact that there were two councils in charge, which often could not agree on anything. Party politics sometimes worsened the already difficult situation, when I feel very strongly that the park should never be a political hot potato as it is there for people of all parties and no party. When it was decided that things needed to change, we wanted an independent trust to run the park as the only proper way to avoid the problems of the past. Instead we got the CIC ...

Bela Cunha ● 1841d

Something very wrong with the way in which the CIC is set up and operated then.Who is ultimately responsible for that?Is it the two Councils?

Raymond Havelock ● 1841d

Unfortunately what this highlights once again is the secrecy in which the CIC wraps itself: there is no transparency, no accountability, no oversight. Who knows what the cornucopia of directors are supposed to do and whether they are providing the park with good value for money. We were denied the opportunity to sit in even as silent observers when important decisions about this park - a public park where council tax payers' money is spent - are being made. The CIC are judge, jury and executioner, have nothing but contempt for the community and send out other people to speak for them, rather than have the guts to face us themselves.

Bela Cunha ● 1841d

Magnanimous of you to be sure.If the CIC fed Cllr. Lambert with inaccurate information then surely he needs to investigate and report back.

N V Brooks ● 1841d

I do not wish my words to be seen as attacking anybody, just setting some matters straight. Cllr Lambert merely printed what the CIC told him. Honest people assume others are honest too, truthful people assume they are being told the truth - just like crooks assume everybody else is crooked as well.

Bela Cunha ● 1841d

Perhaps, Cllr. Lambert, who was swift to defend the CIC, would care to comment.

N V Brooks ● 1841d

Heard a lot about this locally. It stinks. Bowls clubs are not terribly big anyway. but  a vital part of our culture and excellent form of calm  but completive exercise. I would love to try it myself one day when time permits.How did a club get undermined when the two local councils endlessly pontificate well being for all?Yet another example of local people now having to rely on travel to use a less local facility when the facility exists locally in the first place.Maybe a Tandem or Tridem is need by these exponents or cycle or walk to assist those who can't to places of work or recreation.The Goodies would have made a better job than this Parks Management or it's masters!!

Raymond Havelock ● 1841d