Forum Topic

It's another world!

SENSITIVE AS THOUSANDS LOSE JOBS AND BUSINESSES GO BUST. A working group of Borough councillors is due to report shortly on remuneration for councillors. Should it increase and, if so, by how much? Currently, Council leader Steve Curran receives £42,332 per year. This compares with neighbouring leaders' pay – £41,808 in Ealing (Labour), and £65,947 in Hillingdon (Conservative). In 2018 a report, The Remuneration of Councillors in London, recommended £68,130. It said: "This is a full-time job, involving a high level of responsibility and includes the exercise of executive responsibilities. It is right that it should be remunerated on a basis which compares with similar positions in the public sector, while still retaining a reflection of the voluntary character of public service."The Working Group's recommendations are expected to be presented at the Council's next meeting, 30 March.The last increase in Hounslow councillors' allowances was in 2018. They all receive a basic £11,045 pa. There are then Special Responsibility Allowances for committee and other work. Deputy leader Cllr Lily Bath currently receives £29,586. Other Cabinet members receive £25,508. The 2018 report recommended these figures should be between £47,962 and £54,505.The 2018 report said: "It is important that, as far as reasonably possible, financial loss does not prevent people from becoming councillors. Allowances are not shown by polls to be something which influences councillors to take on the role, though they are instrumental in making it possible for some people to do so. Allowances should be set at a level that enables people to undertake the role of councillor, while not acting as an incentive to do so. If it is important that there are no financial incentives to being a councillor, it is equally important that there should not be a financial disincentive. It is clearly desirable that service as a councillor is not confined to those with independent means."

Vanessa Smith ● 1163d21 Comments

I wonder how many laptops or free meals for local kids that backdated £411,000 could have funded?

Paul Fisher ● 1143d

Today's Hounslow Borough Chronicle has lambasted councillors for giving themselves such swingeing pay rises. Apart from the back-dating costing £411,000, some allowances will go up by 56% with backbencher's rises at 2.75%. Quite where this weird piece of justification for this from the great Leader comes from God alone knows - "Because I'm afraid at the moment it makes it very difficult foor younger people who have got a job and have a career to think about giving that up to become a full time councillor if they took up a cabinet post or deputy".Well, dump this autocratic nonsense of cabinets and reform the system back to the tried and tested committee system, where ALL councillors are involved in decision making and can hold paid officers more accountable. Where annual elections for all positions are held and where we might get the right people for the right job - if we're lucky.

Vanessa Smith ● 1143d

I can't understand how they they think this will come across as acceptable to the voters when the outcome of consultations is ignored and an increasing number of initiatives they take are unpopular.The sheer amount, percentage wise, is ridiculous.I worked in the public sector and for many years there was no rise at all and even in the good old days I was lucky to get 2%,whilst more and more work was put on my plate.

Keith Iddon ● 1152d

A lot of employers in the public sector have really tightened up on time off for civic duty. My husband worked for both Hounslow and Hillingdon councils whilst a JP for thirty years (not a paid position) and used either flexitime or leave for much of that, as they cut back on the allowance so much. I know that I used flexi for my council duties, some of which took place during the day, as the civil service did the same where time off was concerned, and that was quite a while ago now. So I think you'll find a lot of what you describe has long gone.

Vanessa Smith ● 1152d

Its the double standards. We had union reps. But they were supposed to get a bit of expenses and often put in the extra hours, but then it got noticed that the are never actually at work. Always engaged in union matters or away on union seminars and so on. They seldom ever sorted much more than tiny problems but were nowhere to be found when there really was a big problem.But several others ended up doing their jobs for them.No thanks or appreciation for that. But after a few years it was beyond a joke.They got Union financial backing but took home a full salary for work done by others.If you work in public services it seems rather easy to get time out for union or council matters but not if you are in any other occupation.Maybe the rise should only be for those who get no allowances from their occupation or employer for time out. Maybe thats why there are a large amount of councillors who are employed by unions or public bodies?

Raymond Havelock ● 1153d

You all may have already seen this, but a couple of hundred residents have already signed a petition calling for the council to abandon its planned increase in councillor allowances, and can be found here: https://petitions.hounslow.gov.uk/NoPayRise/Agree with the general sentiment here - Proper reimbursement is important, but a 50%+ pay rise for cabinet members (and 200%+ rise for some other councillors!) in the middle of one of the worst economic situations our borough has ever been in seems wrong.

Jack Emsley ● 1153d

What a strange lot of grumbly posts. I do agree that councillors who do next to nothing are in the wrong, even for a token £11000pa, no pension, no golden anything. Perhaps a recall mechanism would be a good idea. But given that there is apparently zero pension means that even the new pay levels do not look at all generous to me. I've met three councillors quite often, Guy Lambert, Katherine Dunne and Tony Louki and all have impressed me with their dedication and hard work. My wife recently asked if I might ever want to be a councillor. I said "No way - pitiful pay, zero pension, lots of boring detail and a large body of local people predisposed to criticize everything you do and make false insinuations of dishonesty." So as far as I can see all this complaining is just about a modest belated catch-up based on an independent report. Please have a look at the riches bestowed on MPs, especially ministers and their chums. Some, eg Williamson, seem to have no knowledge or interest at all in their area yet still get showered with gifts, lordships etc over their disastrous careers. Mr "no experts" Gove seems to keep failing upwards. And did we get back our £40+ million wasted on the Garden Bridge by Johnson? One rule for them...I'll stick to helping out three local charities, with websites and photography. That seems much more rewarding, even if the pay and expenses are zero.

Eric Baker ● 1154d

Given some of the drivel coming out of the mouths of some of our elected members you begin to question if they actually understand the system of local governance at all.I give you this gem.'DEPUTY LEADER LILY BATH DEFENDS COUNCILLORS' PAY RISES. "If you don't pay even the average amount you're only going to get privileged people to stand as councillors," Cllr Bath told Budget Question Time last night (Thursday). "It should encourage people from different walks of life to participate, so that they can give up a job and can afford to be a councillor. If you can't afford to be a councillor, we're not going to get a diverse range of members, which means we won't get diverse decision making and ultimately good decision making."Being a local councillor is worlds away from the way MPs work. What would happen to any luckless person taking notice to give up the day job to be a councillor who then lost their seat? Are we going down the road of pensions and golden handshakes for the people who lose out? How on earth paying large amounts of money would guarantee a 'diverse range of members'? The whole concept of a primarily volunteer civic duty seems to have been overtaken by pound signs. There are undoubtedly councillors who are worth their salt, there are also those who sit back, do nothing and keep taking the money, and let paid officers call the shots. Obviously some of the current crop have a lot of learning to do!

Vanessa Smith ● 1154d

Wonder how many, if any, will refuse to vote for these increases? It's all fine and dandy wittering on about how some of them disagree, but actions speak louder than words. Sometimes you have to stick your head over the parapet, morally this is just plain wrong.I suspect that they hope all the fuss wil have been forgotten come next year's local elections.

Vanessa Smith ● 1155d

All this when there is rumoured to be a 5% increase in council tax.I wonder if they could have picked a worse time to push this through.It all seems a bit 'nice work if you can get it' when unemployment has no doubt risen locally and there is much covid related misery and gnashing of teeth for months yet.It is insensitive,probably massively undeserved in some instances and not open to public debate by the sound of it. Politiburo anyone?

Keith Iddon ● 1156d

You are so right Vanessa. Whenever I have contacted all three councillors, Guy Lambert is the only one whoever replies and he always reacts promptly and is very helpful. The other two never ever even acknowledge the query.

Pat Kingham ● 1156d

No-one expects councillors to be out of pocket - however, saying that other authorities pay more really invites the question- perhaps residents in other local authority areas are better served by their elected members? Where I live we should have three councillors - I defy you to be able to contact more than one - the other two seem to have vanished into the ether. Write to a 'cabinet' member and see if they reply (Guy Lambert is an exception in this regard) you are likely to get palmed off to an officer - who will then send you the 'corporate' P.R. waffle which entirely ignores the question you have asked. If you hold a cabinet portfolio then you should be entirely capable of responding if someone contacts you personally with a question or problem.The set-up of the council needs a root and branch review. Dump the 'cabinet model', go back to the committee system. The advantages are that ALL members, opposition as well, are involved in decision making, there is ongoing scrutiny, it allows members an overview of the whole borough. You would have annual elections for various positions from Leader down, it is more inclusive and democratic, and offers more opportunity for people to take on responsibility for an area that they are interested in and to understand the brief that it covers.

Vanessa Smith ● 1157d

'Whilst allowances should not be so high that they are an incentive to become a Councillor, it is also important that allowances are not set at a level which makes them a disincentive for people to take on the role. Service as a Councillor should not be confined to those of independent means.' What a load of tripe - who was responsible for that gem? I have never heard of the role of a councillor being only available to 'those of independent means', absolute piffle! Most councillors are ordinary people with ordinary full time jobs like the rest of us. Certainly I was a working mother with two young children, many of my colleagues at the time worked shifts, most had families, and we relied on our partners to support us. I didn't know anyone of 'independent means' neither were we 'paid'. We got attendance allowance and could claim mileage, we also used our holidays etc. to fulfil some of our duties, although some employers did allow time off for council work. There is a fine line here, and no-one is forced into standing for election, keep increasing the money and it will become an incentive, if it hasn't already, judging by the inactivity of some at present. Being a councillor is, and always has been, a civic duty.

Vanessa Smith ● 1158d

Civic Duty and doing the best for the people that live here.I certainly think a lot of Councillors are of that intention ( at least initially)But something seems to happen.They are consumed either by ego,high politics or ambition and before you know it the last thing they have on their duty is towards local people. It's then all about votes and potential votes.And we have more than a few councils which simply because of their political allegiance, will willingly dance to the tune of the Mayor of London and his half baked policies and policymakers, no matter how unsuitable these happen to be.I think more renumeration would simply lead to wanting even more.It should be minimal and no more than costs met. But the endless sessions of meetings and what really is far too big a borough makes the demands far too great, to complex and the end results all too often, really poor.I think it really is time to split oversized boroughs and have far more localised councils that truly reflect and service the local population to a far more bespoke model than currently is impossible and ends up with such a mish mash.

Raymond Havelock ● 1162d

There are Councillors nowadays who seem to take up the position and then spend most of their time elsewhere eg at university or abroad.How can you ensure that they ARE going to stay around?How do you make sure that they do intercede with the Councils on behalf of residents?  There appear too often to be difficulties about the maintenance of buildings and with neighbours letting out their properties and dubious legal building where you hear residents calling out for help when they appear not to have got satisfactory replies from the Council or their Councillors?  Is is rather damning surely that residents end up having to go to Citizens Advice, other charities or their MP because they are not getting the help they should be.

Philippa Bond ● 1162d

'If councillors got paid more, then maybe we'd get better councillors - this could be a good thing...'Not necessarily - how do you then ascertain if people are committing themselves to this as a civic duty or because it'll give them a nice little earner? If we take some big companies as an example - how many used that same justification for paying obscene amounts of money to completely inept individuals? This country has a record of volunteering for all sorts of roles, RNLI, Mountain Rescue, WRVS, and that's without all the smaller groups in neighbourhoods across this country that make life bearable for all of us. And I suggest that while no-one should suffer financially from being elected neither should they regard it as a right without accountability to the electorate.

Vanessa Smith ● 1162d

“If councillors got paid more, then maybe we'd get better councillors - this could be a good thing..”I think it’s more like giving blood – a civic duty, not something you do for the money.It’s different in the US. They pay people to give blood there. Skid row junkies queue up to sell their plasma.Paying people can attract the wrong sort of characters…

David Marshall ● 1162d

If councillors got paid more, then maybe we'd get better councillors - this could be a good thing...

Graham Thorpe ● 1162d

The point is that people volunteer for these roles, no-one holds a gun to their heads. It's what used to be known as 'civic duty' and which was NOT a remunerated position. Obviously no-one should be excluded by virtue of their financial position, so there is a place for some financial support. But, when it gets to proposals to up the money to telephone numbers there are questions to be asked of people's performance, many councillors are conspicuous by their absence, lack of activity and communication. As you also acknowledge this country has virtually run on volunteer help and support over the last year especially, and much of that work goes on constantly in less stressful times. Apart from any other considerations - now is hardly the time for this thorny subject to be aired. Suggest that before any more chat about money takes place - the council tries sorting itself out so that it is more democratic and less of a personal fiefdom for those at the top.

Vanessa Smith ● 1162d

Great timing.

Pat Kingham ● 1163d

But its the hard work of so many local groups all unpaid that really underpin so many things that make it so much easier for elected people to them make happenAll the same I don't think would ever want to be in their shoes for any money.Damned if you do, damned if you don't and constantly stuck in the mire of politics and policies. Yuk!

Raymond Havelock ● 1163d