Forum Topic

A Sad Day for a Lovely Tree

Cllr Guy Lambert's chums are back. Windmill Road. Destroying a beautiful mature tall tree opposite me. My proud neighbour for 34 years and home to many generations of birds and their chicks. Shade from the afternoon sun. Cheeky geezer from the deforestation firm (The Tree Associates (Surrey) Ltd) asked if I had a problem. Windmill Road laid waste. Sickening.

Mike Paterson ● 1310d18 Comments

So the road has been narrowed which negates the need for so many trees to have been removed.Still complete silence on replacement tree varietiesand a new hazard of a cycle path just 15 ft long  that sends cyclists zig zagging out right onto a Zebra crossing which needless to say now creates a major risk as none of them can stop and keep balance.Already I've nearly been hit from behind crossing here.Just who signs these third rate schemes off?

Raymond Havelock ● 1286d

Anyone who kills a healthy tree, is a fool and a philistine.

Brian Daniel ● 1287d

Chris I now have data from TfL for accidents at that junction before and after the change.In the 4 years before the change there were 19 accidents recorded at the junction, one serious.In the 4 years since there have been 10, with one serious

Guy Lambert ● 1303d

Silly idea. Windmill road is quite narrow enough already without narrowing it further.It’s also a bus route and has a lot of larger vehicles such as lorries and vans using it. Your anti-car rhetoric gives the game away. Are you an LCC member, like Cllr Lambert?If you want more trees, move to the countryside.

Simon Hayes ● 1303d

I feel your pain. Trees add such beauty to cityscapes.I'd like to propagate an idea. Guy has pointed out the obligation on the council to maintain pavements for those with accessibility issues. I understand. But it is such a crying shame that the tiny strip given over to pavements has to be maintained at the expense of majestic, irreplaceable trees. A road such as Windmill Road has parking down one side (another relentless concession to cars). It wouldn't be such a loss to car owners for the parking to be interrupted once in a while for trees (or even if it is a significant loss, it is about time we pushed back against the domination by the car). Existing trees could have a bollarded path around the outside of them. New trees could be planted within such a bollarded area. Such street planning would abate the relentless claim of public spaces by cars, and would keep or add character on the otherwise grim tarmac expanse. Might a ask folk to please help in propagating and normalising the idea.

John Dickinson ● 1303d

"the timing of these changes is part of the current anti-car policy, and this is the sole reason for these works"With respect Graham, that is nonsense.If it were true it would be a bit pointless, because car use is not hindered by the changes, which merely improve wheelchair and pedestrian access at the expense of the loss of some mature trees.The people of Brentford will make up their own mind between whichever candidates stand in what will be the ward of Brentford West next May.If I am one of them, I will stand by my record. Some will respect that, some not, and I am more than happy to be democratically accountable.

Guy Lambert ● 1305d

I walk or cycle the streets of Brentford (and beyond) practically every single day.The Windmill Road/A4 junction is a TfL junction, though Hounslow have some advisory input into the design.I can only observe that before the changes there were frequent collisions on the south side leading to cars enmeshed in the railings outside the Leprosy Mission.I'm not sure what the collision stats before/after are but will enquire. Chris you seem to be suggesting that the buses (and other traffic) that cross the A4 here should divert to the Ealing road junction or the hamburger junction near GSK? This would entail moving the southbound bus routes that serve the southern section of Windmill Road, presumably to Boston Manor Road as the junction is too tight for a bus to turn in. I disagree.

Guy Lambert ● 1305d

The changes to Windmill Road are an utter disgrace. The gap in the central reservation in the A4 which allows Windmill traffic to cross the A4 should have been closed when the hamburgers were opened at the junction of Boston Manor Road and the A4. Traffic turning right where Windmill Road crosses the A4 is a potential death trap. I have only used and observed those junctions for forty two years. Do the planners at Hounslow Council ever leave their ivory tower to walk the streets of Hounslow.

Chris Dakers ● 1306d

What I do find rather odd is the rather contradictory information from Cllr Lambert."The road would have to be narrowed" " Not with a Bus Route"Except it has been narrowed post tree removal and yet the Pavement sans trees is now more than adequate.And the road has been narrowed further y adding a kink just before Gunnersbury School,It causes chaos to buses which cannot pass each other and regularly mirrors and HGVs clip as they swerve out.This was done by Ealing but again it has made an already narrow main road dangerous for almost every road user, Pedestrian, Cyclist, Passenger Vehicle driver  or HGV driver.Not a whisper from duty of Care on that one!Or the rather bizarre zig zag cycle way which is almost impossible to use and again no cyclist bothers.All designed clearly by some basic level computer program from a Sinclair Spectrum or by people who barely got past that level.Nothing is humanly or vehiclalry ergonomic.So nothing new.

Raymond Havelock ● 1307d

A typically disingenuous reply from Guy Lambert – the big trees and narrow footpaths of Windmill Road have been a fact for decades – could you, or your predecessors, not have noticed and corrected this problem last year or the year before or the many years before that? Your admission that the local authority has a duty of care to pedestrians using this road exposes a massive failure of your responsivity to parents, wheelchair users, partially-sighted etc. people going back many years. Do you think people are so feeble-minded as to not see that the timing of these changes is part of the current anti-car policy, and this is the sole reason for these works – if this was not the case, then pedestrians would still be struggling along the old narrow footpaths. The people of Brentford deserve a representative who they can trust to pursue their best interests – I’m sure the residents of Windmill Road, who have had their lives blighted by the explosion of increased traffic caused by the massively unpopular LTN schemes, have decided for a change and the next election cannot come soon enough.

Graham Thorpe ● 1307d

Very good, Raymond. Thanks.

Mike Paterson ● 1307d

What an excellent post; the old days, were sensible days, with common sense policy.

Brian Daniel ● 1307d

Sad that it is but environmentally seriously damaging.  It's only large mature trees that have beneficial properties.  No doubt the pros and cons were not illustrated in the consultation, only the case for.Certainly not all the trees removed were obstructive to even the widest of wheelchairs or twin pushchairs.Neglected root control is more like the culprit and comes back to the appalling general neglect of pavements all over the district.In the 1960s in our street they used to come every 5 years and lift the pavers, and dig under the roots and then use a roller or thumper to pack the roots down then relay the pavers which were always the heaviest thickness. Even with big trees, the pavements were always even.Now they are not even level a few weeks after any sort of work is carried out & not even near a tree!The real problem is the  40 plus years of poor maintenance from changing policies of street tree care.  It's been a mix of ignorance, naivety, arrogance and cost cutting. All of which are myopic.They have not been lopped to contain root growth and trunk girth growth which can be slowed but not fully contained.Chiswick High Road was an example of sometimes stark regular lopping but those Plane trees remained at a stable height and thrived and survived storms better than many.The French are masters of this and their methods with Plane trees is more an art than a quick lop job.  But the short sightedness is the biggest crime.New Younger trees ought to be planted some 30 years prior to the older ones removal to give continuity and breach the gap.This mad policy is why Boston Manor Park will be scarred for generations.It's egos and too many cooks trying to make their mark rather than continuity of stewardship.This used to be done really well in both Ealing and Hounslow until the early 1970s and Ealing and Hounslow had a "Tree farm" where the right sort of trees were propagated and planted. Glade Lane in Norwood Green.Similar to crop rotation and leaving to fallow.   It will be beyond most people's lifetime before  Windmill road returns to some sort of ambience and no-one has even mentioned exactly what varieties are being used as replacements .

Raymond Havelock ● 1308d

Per my previous. It IS one mature tree left in this section of Windmill Road. I also just had a look at the site of the tree removed outside St Faiths. Clearly plenty of space for wheelchair users, it seems to me the loss of this tree, at least, totally unnecessary. But all of them, really. Thanks for clarifying about time of year and trees: I did not know that. I look forward to the October plantings and many happy wheelchair users.  Despite the massacre of Boston Manor Park recently, thanks too for the good news on all the planting about to take place and future besting of London Borough of Bromley (take THAT, Bromley!). But you can't just do this with no regard to the streetscape environment. It's not a zero sum game. With all the LTNs hereabouts we in Windmill Road are like rats in a trap - a now very unpleasant trap (PS the brand new double yellow stripes outside my home look very fetching, thanks for that). Oh, and BTW, came THIS close to having a horrible car crash at the now lethal junction of Windmill Road and the Great West Road. Drivers get totally confused. Some seem to think that because they are in the junction box they have right of way over those about to enter the junction box.

Mike Paterson ● 1309d

The changes in Windmill Road were extensively consulted in 2019, pre pandemic, and have nothing whatever to do with Swyncombe Avenue.The local authority has a duty of care to provide footpaths suitable for use by wheelchairs and other users with restricted mobility and the footways in that part of Windmill Road were plainly incapable of supporting such users without some trees being removed or the road being substantially narrowed - not an option on a bus route.According to the project manager:"By the time the scheme is complete, 5 trees will have been removed. 3 were removed in the Summer, but 2 were found to having nesting birds and so were not removed at that time. The arboriculturists have confirmed that there are no longer any nests in these trees, so they are being removed at the moment. 5 no. new trees will be planted in in the road in the next couple of weeks – 2 in the area outside St Faith’s, 3 in the area just north of Grove Road. We’ve been given a date of early/mid-October for these works"I'm no expert, but I know you don't plant trees during the summer if you want them to have a realistic chance of surviving.I hate trees going but we have currently 123,235 trees logged in public areas in the borough according to Greentalk https://www.greentalklabs.com/hounslow-greentalk-launches/ and I know this is an underestimate just by looking out of my window where there are unlogged trees on privately owned but publicly accessible land. We have also planted 4500 trees across the borough last winter, and have a commitment to plant one for every new baby born in the borough.Interesting that Bromley council claims "Bromley has the largest tree stock of all the London Boroughs including around 36,000 street trees comprising 200 species, and over 24,000 trees in parks. Trees are an important part of our neighbourhood – in streets, parks and open spaces - and help make our borough a pleasant place to live, work and visit."We can easily double that.

Guy Lambert ● 1309d

Has there been no explanation as to why the trees are being removed? I'm guessing not.

Anne England ● 1310d

Make that two trees. While I was out, they also destroyed the one nearer the A4 on the East side of Windmill Road. That leaves a grand total of two (I think) mature trees on our section of the street. One of these may also go in the future, according to one of the tree killers. Guess  how many of the promised replacement trees have been planted? One guess.

Mike Paterson ● 1310d

I assume this is to cope with the traffic diverted from wide Swyncombe Avenue to narrow Windmill Road. Well done Hounslow Council.

Chris Dakers ● 1310d