Forum Topic

Car Free redevelopments?

Having read some of the literature on the Charlotn House / Albany Parade redevelopment I notice that completely absent  from all the lovely stuff is any reference to residents or service or visitor parking.But not does it state anywhere that it is a Car Free development.With such a pending exodus of local jobs and lower skilled jobs in particular one wonders how many residents will be able to provide for their families.Do these planners or designers not realise that for many who live in affordable housing, a vehicle is the key to an income and broadening opportunities, just as much as it is for many working people?Maybe this can be clarified just how this benefits people's ability to make a living and the impact it may have on surrounding areas if it is to be car free?Maybe this is entirely wrong but upping the densification and lowering the options seems a bit askew.

Raymond Havelock ● 1281d11 Comments

I have to say, at 17, having a driving licence opened more doors than having O levels.At 21 having a car got me a job and not my degree. Even if it was a £120 Mini. That was when there were 4 million unemployed and proper jobs locally then as now, were becoming scarce. 200 applicants for 1 position and all with better degrees than I had. I was automatically inferior as I went to a Polytechnic.And the mobility to go anywhere at any time got me my career.It would never have happened any other way

Raymond Havelock ● 1274d

'Right of passage(at 17)?' - you really did come from a different world than me, or my nieces and nephew for that matter.

Anne England ● 1274d

Unfortunately, it's hard hitting for those on average earnings but a complete chastisement for those on low incomes and restricted job opportunities.The myopic vision by those who clearly have never experienced what it's like to not be able to pick and choose and yet produce patronising guff creating some sort of utopia is quite surreal.One gets the feeling the residents have been somewhat used with a Carrot on a Stick.

Raymond Havelock ● 1275d

Rotten Hounslow Borough aims are removing the cultural aspirations of young people. Previously, 17 year olds in Social Housing and elsewhere would be saving up to buy their first car. Not only a private room on wheels, Car ownership and the responsibility of it's upkeep was valued as a right of passage in gaining real independence. Now they are being coerced into hiring a bike or on to a bus.

Philippa Auton ● 1275d

When policy collides with peoples living then somethings wrong.When you have to go to work at 4am ( and an awful lot of people do ) it is only feasible if a night bus goes in your direction.With massive losses of local employment and the severe reduction industrial and commercial work locations, along with prohibitive costs ( even for Multi nationals), more and more people will have to travel farther afield. In fact, many already do.  That impacts on their family life and for minimal salaries.Car Clubs and Sharing does not really work. You have to book well in advance and often the nearest available vehicle is miles away.In the real world Phillipa, those with the least resources have to work long hours  and anti social hours.  That's how you get your Latte and Apple&Tofu Brioche on your cafe table.It's all very well all these policymakers pontificating about quality of life. Maybe they ought to try a year or two living in such circumstances and then solving the problems.Cars can be accommodated by doing what other countries have done for decades and going downwards. Even easier with future modes of propulsion.It all comes back to the taboo problem. Too many people, not enough to sustain them and nowhere to put them.  Not heard Greta and co. mention that yet.

Raymond Havelock ● 1275d

Adam's right.  It's policy and there isn't room for everyone to have a car nowadays.  Without counting the blocks of flats just look at the number of adults living in houses now they have been divided or adult children have come home to live. There are alternatives like the car clubs and sharing cars if you need to and can't afford a cab.  The teenagers all seem to use Ubers nowadays.

Philippa Bond ● 1276d

Very few company cars nowadays.Those that are rack up very high mileages in a short time so do get well used.Most are working vehicles or adapted for specific work use often rendering them unusable for family use.Cars have got bigger but versatility and adaptability has diminished severely in the affordable groups.But that's what sells.

Raymond Havelock ● 1279d

I’d say if you’re given a company car but no parking. Barely use it, my first instinct would be to give it back.

Maggie Dodge ● 1279d

Yes, Adam, Clearly the planners are hamstrung by policy. Having seen more of the proposals today there are some good bits weaved in and a better living environment for the tenants.But it is uncomfortable to see how people at the bottom rung are being rather used as pawns.To have their choices and opportunities to put food on the table and move onwards and upwards curtailed as we enter an era of diminishing local employment and massive competition for proper career jobs at all levels, this imposing of policy to suit idealistic ambitions of people who have probably never had to live on the bottom rung feels somehow wrong. Almost NaziesqueI do recall my first proper job. It was a 4 am start at the airport. My newly passed drivers licence got me the job. Not my O or A levels. But own transport was necessary and the only jobs going at the height of unemployment all required a drivers licence above all else - even though I worked indoors and nowhere near a vehicle.But then as now, there is no easy,safe or fast public transport in those hours. The night bus then as now, took an age and often was a no show.Only on a middle shift was it possible to manage without a car. Senior staff all bagged those then as now.However, even then, there was a Staff car park - paid for by the employer and provided by BAA, A fully subsidised canteen facility, proper breaks and a lot of fun.Now, the shifts are longer, no staff parking for many allied service workers, hard disciplinaries for punctuality, no subsided meals or breaks and young staff with no means of having a car having long journeys all year round in lousy hours.And shocked to find they earn proportionally 40% less per hour than I did in 1983!But for mobility taken out of the choices for ordinary people trying harder than many to make an honest days work and get somewhere just seems not just insane but nasty.

Raymond Havelock ● 1280d

Well said Raymond. These policies are probably made by men. As a woman I want to use my car in the evenings. Like many other women I do not feel safe using public transport  at night and walking back from stations, buses etc. I also feel vulnerable on public transport as so few people are wearing masks. The pandemic is  still on, now is not the time to be expecting people to give up their own, safe  transport.

Elizabeth Price ● 1280d

I've made this point previously Raymond but it isn't the planners or designers, it is planning policy, especially at regional and national level, to minimise reliance on the private car.  Indeed any transport consultant (who is better placed than me as I'm 'only' a planning consultant) will tell you that the new London Plan (adopted March 2021) is as anti-car as it could possibly be, and when we're putting schemes together in Greater London now one of the biggest headaches transport wise is finding space for a policy compliant number of cycle storage spaces.On a personal level I can see this both ways, but generally speaking I don't think there is the genuine 'need' for people to have their own cars within most major cities.  Of course there are exceptions (like you say workers who have to transport their heavy equipment with them) but often it's more for self-centred convenience than actual need.I had a company car when my employers office was based in the City and had no parking, it was an expensive joke, I'd probably use that car for work twice a month.  In my ways I see cars as the same as WFH, it's taken covid for many companies to realise that its in everyone best interests to provide more flexible working arrangements.A vehicle shouldn't be (and in my view, again generally speaking, isn't) the key to an income and broadening opportunities in a major city.  Especially with the ever increasing flexibilty offered by car clubs and such like.

Adam Beamish ● 1280d