Forum Topic

Smartmeters

We now learn they will be obsolete by 2030 as 2g and 3g on which they depend is being pulled. Seems funny to me they are going to continue to be installed. I seem to remember there was a great push to reduce electronic waste. Well how does this help that!

Nicholas Beard ● 1286d21 Comments

I found a much better article that goes into it in more detail, and it looks like you were at least partly correct.https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.htmlBasically in the North of England and Scotland they use a long range radio system not tied into 2g/3g so it looks like they will not have to change anything.In the south they do use cellular, so some work will be needed. The meters themselves and the display will aparently remain the same, but a componenent called the "communications hub" will need replacing. Presumably/hopefully that is easier than doing thw whole lot. Do take a look at the site, there is a lot of information there!

Christopher Gillie ● 1245d

Did not know that. I read there is going to be another sort of smart meter we will need in 2030.

Nicholas Beard ● 1253d

There is a dedicated operator for smart meters that will continue after 2g and 3g voice services stop.https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/

Christopher Gillie ● 1253d

Don't know where the EU bit comes in. It was UK law or UK State run constitution that prevented for example Royal Mail acquiring a stake a European business i.e.. a DHL type business etc.However for some reason the UK opted out of EU options but allowed aquistitions of UK assets.Never been clearly explained.

Raymond Havelock ● 1253d

Very right about other countries state run countries. Railways and buses also spring to mind.

Nicholas Beard ● 1253d

You're too cynical. Water is precious and we need to preserve it.  Thames Water does not always charge - it depends on where the pipes are and whether they or the property owner is responsible for them.  It was a daft idea to lose control of our own water supply just to avoid spending more money on anything state controlled which just seems to be a total anathema to the Tory party.  It's always about rolling back the state but doesn't always mean that the state doesn't have to pick up the bill.Surely the Chinese only own a part of Thames Water.  As someone has already pointed out it is strange that we have utilities owned by state owned companies of other countries.This misinformation about the EU not allowing us to do this and that is repeated again and again.  I remember it being registered offshore in the Caymans.

Philippa Bond ● 1253d

the night checking is flawed. Especially in this part of the country where a significant proportion of people work night shifts and a mayor who promotes a 24 hour city.I work late very often coming home at 2am and will have a shower or a bath if ache and grubby and possibly do the washing up or do laundry.We've had more than a few calls from TW about wasting water at night and leaks etc over the years.Of course thats the opposite during the morning or day but that's not mentioned.They simply never factored in how people actually live and make a living. Everything is based on assumption that it's all 9-5.Smart water meter is fine but it requires technology and somewhere in the chain that costs £££££s and energy use.But do agree, have always felt that selling of utilities was a very wrong long term move.But then we forget how unwieldy and union controlled they had become and how badly managed they were becoming. And how the type of state ownership protocols left them hamstrung and starting to decline.Ironic that State run utility companies from other countries now own huge chunks of UK infrastructure and yet our state companies by law could not do the same.

Raymond Havelock ● 1259d

Who in their right minds would flog off something as important as our wayer supply!

Philippa Bond ● 1259d

“Smart meters help Thames Water to locate underground leaks”Yes – but only leaks they can make money from.  To put this in context, Thames Water discovered a “leak” on a neighbour’s supply pipe following installation of a smart meter at their property. The “leak” amounted to a loss of less than 25ml (5 teaspoons) a day.The result? The householder was forced by Thames Water to replace the supply pipe at a personal cost of £2,500. The pipe replacement “service” was kindly provided by none other than… you’ve guessed it… Thames Water.Kerching!Meanwhile, it’s worth bearing in mind that most of Thames Water’s leaks (75% of them) occur in the company’s OWN network – i.e. under the street in the knackered old pipes that it has no intention of upgrading.Smart meters, of course, are not capable of measuring these leaks – which amount to 500 million litres per year.So the idea that smart meters help to combat leaks is a total myth.The reality is that smart meters are designed to make money for Thames Water’s (Chinese) owners. Aside from forcing “customers” to carry out expensive and unnecessary repairs, Thames Water makes money by flogging personal water consumption data to third parties.Just saying.

David Marshall ● 1260d

Smart meters help Thames Water to locate underground leaks.  Sometimes you see their workmen creeping around the streets n the dead of night listening for leaks.  Smart meters showing where there is excessive water use especially sudden excessive use surely can only be a good thing?The clean drinking water we get from our taps is precious and it is a shame that it is so often used to excess when captured water might be used.  We are going to need to spend more time dealing with the sudden downpours that will cause flash floods and overflowing drains if we don't find ways of slowing down its passage to the drains.  So less paving and more water butts!  One week we can have droughts and can be needing to water our gardens and the next dealing with flash floods.

Philippa Bond ● 1260d

Meanwhile, Thames Water is rushing to put everybody on smart water meters (so they can track you every time you fill a glass with water – readings are taken every 15 minutes).Thames Water is owned by foreign investors, one of which is the Chinese government.You couldn’t make it up.

David Marshall ● 1261d

Smart meters are to be used to charge users higher rates when they use more electricity and not just at peaks but at anytime of day.They are doing this by monitoring your usage. So unless you do everything at 2am you will get charged more at some point during a normal day/evening.

Raymond Havelock ● 1261d

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/reports/Electric%20vehicles_3_Look%20out%20for%20smart%20off%20peak%20tariffs.pdf

Philippa Bond ● 1262d

There was a whole street pop-up pavement charging scheme trial in Oxford a year or so ago.I believe that lots of EV charging points in public places are or were until recently still free.  These are probably the slow rather than fast charging ones.  Sometimes there are restrictions on the amount of time you can spend on them and sometimes there are minimum spends in the supermarkets where they are installed. 

Philippa Bond ● 1263d

When charging an electric car a lot of people will use a granny lead so using off peak electricity is not totally possible.

Nicholas Beard ● 1263d

Have a look at this article on the front page re the extension of the Green Homes Grant:http://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=community&link=http://neighbournet.com/server/common/hounscoun640.htm

Philippa Bond ● 1263d

The gadgets left on standby.  You should be able to pay less for electricity used out of peak times with a smart meter eg charging an electric car.  Most of all we should also be making sure we have the best insulation and ventilation possible to deal with the extremes of weather we can expect without having to use a lot more electricity to keep warm or stay cool.

Philippa Bond ● 1264d

Agree that your brain is much smarter, but also that more info is good. We went 'smart' for electricity last year and the little gadget that tells you what's happening has never connected with the meter despite lots of SSE promises. I've avoided getting the gas meter converted as it's in the basement, where there is no mobile signal of any sort. I maintain spreadsheets for gas, electricity and water that show average consumption per day - one time, a spike in electricity usage turned out to be a freezer that desperately needed defrosting.

Eric Baker ● 1271d

3g will be disconnected soon but most 3g radios also support downgrades to 2g.2g network is alive and kicking for the iot market. Vodafone will shutdown their 2g network in 2025, but there will be one network called open something which will provide 2g data access till 2033... As for the comment "you dont need a smart meter to save money"..Its true! you dont, but most people dont know how much they are using and a smart meter with immediate feedback helps people turn things off and go .. ah yes..For example, in the old days I used to calculate my mpg in a car by filling up, reseting the trip counter, then filling up again, new petrol in ,  miles gave me mpg. today, I drive a bit, hit reset, look at it in real time I as rev up and down and realise.. wow that makes a difference, and then at the end of the journey..Smart Meter example. I know at night my house uses ~270w of power, about a month ago I noticed it was much higher, so I went to look and discovered the kids left both TVs on but their screens were blank (crappy design tbh). This helped me identify there was a power anomaly and thus I could action it.. So yes Smart meters do help.I dont think smart meters are mandatory though, feel free to ignore the technology

Angelo R Santagata ● 1286d

Quite right. Adverts on the TV misslead people. The only way to save electricity is to turn it off and you dont need a smart meter to tell you that. I find it incredible that they are still trying to push them, only last night I saw an advert on the TV for them.

Nicholas Beard ● 1286d

Problem with a smart meter is like so many apps or devices they remove basic common sense and prudence and lure people into believing this is a way having control.This is not true of all apps but dependency on such things is pure folly.A smart meter comes in handy if dividing usage between say, flatmates or a sharer of maybe an outbuilding, handy for businesses and community ventures, but in a family home, pointless.After all that, Smartmeters require a form of power to function, signals to operate are not by magic, somewhere power has to be generated to make this happen, batteries are not magic either, they have to be manufactured and use finite resources. Multiply that by billions and it starts to become significant .You cannot switch your fridge off, nor the electricity supply to a gas boiler or safety systems or those devices which require a constant  standby mode without a complete reset if switched off.  You still need to use the vacuum cleaner, washing machine or dishwasher.But individuals don't need an app to be responsible in remembering to turn a light or device off when not in use or be prudent with usage.  Simple things like not underutilising a utility machine should be instinctive. Does anyone really need an app to realise that?I remember parents during the power cut / energy crisis putting those 'SAVE IT' stickers on the light switches. Not for them, but to install in me and siblings to remember to switch the light off.Those stickers were on not just ours but many friends light switches for quite some years.As far as I know, stickers are not affected by 2G, 3G or 5G and were wipe clean.Also very cheap simple and effective.I know that my parents generation was very frugal with gas and electricity, it's forgotten that in the late 1960s and early 1970s, It was expensive, less efficient, even getting a telephone was both costly and many months of waiting.It affected all but the most well off - looks like that may be on the cards again.At least most things are far more efficient but want to make a saving? Use the brain and not a smart meter.

Raymond Havelock ● 1286d