Forum Topic

Let's keep some perspective

A sovereign country is invaded, the aggressor country using outrageous lies to justify the invasion in the face of massive public opposition and zero provocation – civilian infrastructure is routinely targeted, and prisoners mistreated and not given the protections of the Geneva Convention. Putin in Russia or Blair (and Bush) in Iraq? Boris just went to a party – he shouldn’t have, and he’s been prosecuted for his error. But let’s get some perspective – nobody died because of the party. The only people keeping this non-story alive are those with a political axe to grind (incl. Guy Lambert). Boris hasn’t been our best Prime Minister, but he’s a long way from being the worst!

Graham Thorpe ● 742d11 Comments

Surely the point is that the Government didn't "deal with it" but continued to hold gatherings with drinks and food over a lengthy period of time. It is the police who are finally dealing with these illegal gatherings, And the fact that Johnson has received one fine doesn't mean that the matter has been dealt with conclusively. There is evidence that he and others were at a number of events and until the police have finished investigating and issued fines or summons, the matter will continue to rumble on.

Sue Rowe ● 738d

Then again we have a ling list of politicians who never get caught or if they do, their activities not revealed until they are long gone.I suppose at least this has been actioned.But yes there are far more serious things for Govt to deal with and they need to up their game ...massively.

Raymond Havelock ● 740d

'I only stole/defrauded a little bit of jewellery/money and the old lady didn't really miss it and I didn't hit her very hard - but there is a war in Ukraine, so let's keep things in perspective...!' Any half decent politician could be suitably 'statesman-like' over the events in Ukraine.  We don't need Johnson to do it.  The only unique thing about him is his unprincipled rejection of the normal standards of honesty and probity in public life, for which he needs to be judged, quite independently of any of his other actions.

Peter Evans ● 741d

Not blurred at all, distinction is the difference between criminal law and civil law. FPN (Fixed Penalty Notice) issued by the police is a criminal offence - not to be confused with a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) given for a parking offence and issued by Civil Enforcement Officers (parking/traffic wardens) is civil law. With an FPN Johnson, Sunak and co. could have refused to pay and gone to court to argue their case, they didn't they coughed up, which means they accepted that what they had done was wrong.

Vanessa Smith ● 741d

BBC reports keep referring to those fined as "criminals". On thursday Newsnights presenter questioning some never heard of before politician on Rwanda then used a rather irrelevant question about validity of criminals in government.But if they are being fined then it's a civil offence isn't it?If it is criminal then is it not supposed to be a hearing at a magistrates court and offered the option to have a hearing?If so does that mean anyone from a litter dropper to a parking ticket is also a 'Criminal'Seems a bit blurred.

Raymond Havelock ● 741d

Comparison to the Republicans in the U.S. made in yesterday's 'i'. They too protected Trump by lying to protect him, even the two who were a bit critical and realised what damage was being done to the Republican party then swallowed their criticism, and one even flew to Mar-a-Lago 'to pay homage' to the orange one, pathetic."In reality, the Republican party surrendered its principles to Trumpism long before that final shocking moment, averting its gaze from first small and then larger outrages - because he was winning and because they feared his base. The huge crisis did not come out of the blue. It was the culmination of many events that normalised a culture of rule-breaking."" The U.K. Prime Monster has not fomented insurrection or attempted to rig an election, though he did unlawfully  suspend Parliament over Brexit. His misdeed are mostly offences of self- gratification. But there is a warning to the Conservative Party in the path trodden by their political soulmates across the Atlantic. Once you surrender your commitment to core values, it is hard to hold on to your party.So, as Tories prevaricate over how to respond to The Prime Minster's fine for attending a Downing Street party in a pandemic lockdown - the question they must ask is how many blind eyes they can turn before their party, too, is lost?"The final paragraph is the killer. "Johnson's contempt for the rules is dragging down his party and more important, faith in the system. Only opposition weakness keeps the Tories afloat. His Chancellor and his staff are already tainted. Eventually his party will be too. There may be a cost for bringing Johnson down, but ultimately there will be a higher one for failing to do so."

Vanessa Smith ● 741d

Vanessa – if that is your view, then I respect it. But I don’t see that level of anger from the “ordinary” people I know, from both sides of the political divide, toward Boris’ transgression. You say what happened to the rule of law – surely this has been resolved – the law was broken, and the correct sanction has been made. If this were you or I, the issue would be closed – we would not lose our jobs because of this. And, whilst I accept that our leaders should be held to a higher standard, I don’t think many people would see this as an issue to resign over. But, again, if you do, then that is your prerogative. I kind of agree with your “whataboutery” comment – but I wanted to highlight the hypocrisy of the political classes who are keeping this story alive to cover the complete lack of any positive policy ideas of their own; and also the wider hypocrisy that, rightly, treats Putin as a pariah for invading another country whilst the architects of the Iraq war have escaped any sanction. The rule of law, nationally and internationally, should be equally applied.

Graham Thorpe ● 741d

What I can't understand is how long this went unreported.Most of the Lobby pass holding Westminster Village of journalists regularly go to the friday afternoon drinks and other little gatherings. It's how they do their job.  These were going on all over the place and several were regularly in attendance. Even if they were not, most knew, and knew people who were there as they are often their contacts.Then there's all the City friday junkets on executive floors and roof gardens.They were going on too.The rest of the ordinary staff either furloughed at home but certainly not in the pubs at ground level. But no. far easier for enforcement to pop round to Acacia Ave, or turn up at a funeral and 'enforce' the law.And then there is the Police.  Why on earth did not one officer or senior officer( given they guard ministry buildings and patrol Westminster constantly) not raise concern with the higher than usual amount of people with passes turning up with bottles?Possibly because it has been the norm for decades? And the lockdown laws did not say no booze to be consumed in a workplace.Or because all too often, any officer junior or senior, will fall foul of the politics of the establishment. Oddly enough, our MD did ban all alcohol and in the office in the early 1990's. Even in the executive dining room.  He would lay on a food spread and cake etc for birthdays or retirements at his own expense.

Raymond Havelock ● 741d

'Boris just went to a party – he shouldn’t have, and he’s been prosecuted for his error. But let’s get some perspective – nobody died because of the party.'Sometimes I just don't believe what some people can dream up! True 'nobody died because of the party' but thousands of people playing by Johnson's own rules had to be apart from their loved ones who were dying, alone and distressed. To say this is a 'non story' is plain ridiculous, poll after poll shows that the public don't consider this a mere small mistake, if our so-called leaders don't want to play fairly - then why on earth should anyone else? Whatever happened to the rule of law? Without that what do we have? And frankly playing the 'whataboutery' card just won't wash.

Vanessa Smith ● 742d

The one thing doesn't negate the other although admittedly we've probably heard enough about Beavis's misdemeanours - until the next time.

Anne England ● 742d

Correction – I obviously meant “Putin in Ukraine”, not Russia

Graham Thorpe ● 742d