Forum Topic

Silvia Diaz · 6/12/2022 1:15:00 PM

new.BrentfordTW8.com Communtity Forum Topic posting

Former Princess Royal pub last night

Did anybody hear the noises coming from the ex pub yesterday until 11 pm?

Silvia Diaz ● 1051d40 Comments

I agree with Anne, and I would add that I have engaged quite extensively with Bishop Hovakim Manukyan (he doesn't need inverted commas!) the Primate of the Armenian Church in England and his team, and found them all genuinely friendly people and eager to work for the benefit of local people.We have introduced them to local bodies like Brentford Voice and everybody is looking at how the centre can be used for the local community as well as dealing with their own requirements, which seem to be social and educational for those with Armenian background. I'm delighted they are here!

Guy Lambert ● 843d

The new neighbours are, indeed, making a fine job of doing up the former Princess Royal - both inside and out.As a long-time resident, though, I have to say that I experienced very little 'dreadful behaviour' from football fans over the years, in fact it's difficult to think of any.

Anne England ● 843d

I met staff yesterday who are renovating the old pub on the corner of Braemar and Ealing Roads.The "Bishop"is already in residence upstairs and has been for some 6 months.Work continues on the ground floor and on some rear outbuidings.The decorative windows on the ground floor are being preserved.The ground floor will be used as a Community hub...during what hours I don't know.The three people I spoke to during my 45 minutes speaking and taking some photos for the REAL BRENTFORD FB group were extremely pleasant and spoke well.and I was impressed by their style.I've said before that in my view Armenians have had a tough time in their history.Of note: an Armenian founded BRENTFORD NYLONS..and I recall doing business with one of his Armenian colleagues.Local residents who've tolerated dreadful bèhavior from football fans ..should find the incomérs tolerable.

Jim Lawes ● 843d

The front page News Item updates pus all as to what has been going on behind the scenes.We should welcome our Armenian friends...and maybe enjoy their hospitality. I'm always free. And you?

Jim Lawes ● 904d

Thanks for the update Guy

Debbie Paradin ● 951d

I did meet the Bishop 3 times actually, but all informally. Once at the neighbour event they held, once at their festival in Acton (he invited me and Lara)and once on the pavement outside the PR where he was dressed in most unbishoply overalls and putting some stuff in the skip.They are keen for the centre, when finished, to be an asset for the community and I must say the bishop and the other people involved seem most friendly and hospitable.I will look to get an update (including answering any questions) but I will not press too hard whilst there is an active threat to his homeland. I am much more reliable dealing with emails than making sporadic visits to this site so do please email guy.lambert@hounslow.gov.uk with any questions/concerns.

Guy Lambert ● 952d

Totally agree. I only asked because On 15 JUNE 2022 Guy wrote 'I am actually likely to see him informally in early July but probably need a formal meeting' So I just hoped he'd have an update but I expect he has been rather busy of late with other more pressing matters.

Debbie Paradin ● 953d

ON 15 June 2022 Guy wrote 'I am actually likely to see him informally in early July but probably need a formal meeting. Would be very happy to receive emails from anybody outlining their concerns so I have them on the agenda for a discussion'That's the only reason I asked Jim ;)

Debbie Paradin ● 953d

I don't see that Guy will pick his name up in a contribution on an old thread. He can't read everything!

Anne England ● 953d

It seems a war has broken out during the past few days between Armenia and it's neighbour Azerbaijan..over their disputed border.Russia is said to be seeking peace there!The Bishop..who is based in Ealing currently ..might be a bit too busy to worry about his new base in Brentford!

Jim Lawes ● 953d

Any updates Guy?

Debbie Paradin ● 953d

Many thanks Anne for the update

Debbie Paradin ● 1014d

I went to the meeting at the former Princess Royal and was told that the Bishop will live above when he is in town - I think he travels rather a lot. There is also accommodation for occasional visitors.

Anne England ● 1019d

Hi Guy, at your next meeting with the Bishop could you please ask - Who will be living in the flat above? Will the Bishop be residing there? What will the 'shop' area be used for? Will the premises only be in use during normal 'office hours' with the occasional function taking place at other times? What arrangements will be made for car parking in the area? Many thanks

Debbie Paradin ● 1020d

Very interesting I had no idea that there were so many Bishops

Debbie Paradin ● 1039d

An area where an Armenian church is located has a dioceses and each diocese is made up of parishes. In England there are three Armenian church buildings, one in Manchester and two in London there are 3 more places in the British Isles where small Armenian “Mission Parishes” have been recently established. with one in Dublin. All are under the supervision of the Prelate Bishop Hovakim.A Bishop is a priest who has authority over other priests in an ecclesiastic province. In England there are approximately 42 Bishops under the diocese of York & Canterbury and another 7 under the diocese of London & several Churches of BAME also have Bishops and Archbishops serving their communities.

Mari Austin ● 1040d

An area where an Armenian church is located has a dioceses and each diocese is made up of parishes. In England there are three Armenian church buildings, one in Manchester and two in London there are 3 more places in the British Isles where small Armenian “Mission Parishes” have been recently established. with one in Dublin. All are under the supervision of the Prelate Bishop Hovakim. A Bishop is a priest who has authority over other priests in an ecclesiastic province. In England there are approximately 42 Bishops under the diocese of York & Canterbury and another 7 under the diocese of London & several Churches of BAME also have Bishops and Archbishops serving their communities.

Mari Austin ● 1040d

I'll try. Bishop Hovakim is the appointed appointed Primate of the Armenian Churches of the United Kingdom - think of him a bit like the Archbishop of Canterbury (ABC).ABC operates through a series of Diocesan Bishops with responsibility for day to day operation in a particular area - these can be considered are prelates or those with oversight of a See.So, although the oversight would be from Bishop Hovakim it's not his day-to-day responsibility as this would fall upon the individual Prelate, who has not been appointed.

N V Brooks ● 1043d

I can't find a definitive of what 'Prelacy' means. Seems to be open to all sorts of interpretations.Nearest I can think of is a bit like the American church centres which are usually sub - buildings on the church grounds with all sorts of community facilities, for weddings, baptisms, lectures and events etc. But available at all times whilst the actual church is not.

Raymond Havelock ● 1043d

I don't fully understand what 'prelacy' means, despite having just looked up meanings online.I can say though, that when I spoke to a worker when the work on the Princess Royal commenced, he told me that the building was going to be an Armenian community centre and not a church. He said that the activities would be open to all - interest in the activities will, of course, depend on what they are and (I should have thought) whether they are conducted in English.Coincidentally, I have just come home to a communication from London Borough of Hounslow about satisfaction/otherwise with the current BRS parking scheme - times of operation etc. Sorry to say I think the community centre will cause some issues with parking in the area.

Anne England ● 1043d

Maybe we should rejoice at the arrival of the Armenian Church. ..and welcome them.All will hinge on the response of local residents.

Jim Lawes ● 1043d

Don't know if this info is helpful or not :- London, May 2022Bishop Hovakim Manukyan said “The Armenian Church does not have a prelacy,” Even though we have church buildings, there is a need for a proper prelacy,” he continued. “This prelacy will tremendously elevate our profile as an organized community. So, we found an English pub that was up for sale, and we bought it. It is going to be transformed into the Prelacy of the Armenian Church!

Mari Austin ● 1043d

London, May 2022 Bishop Hovakim Manukyan said “The Armenian Church does not have a prelacy,” Even though we have church buildings, there is a need for a proper prelacy,” he continued. “This prelacy will tremendously elevate our profile as an organized community. So, we found an English pub that was up for sale, and we bought it. It is going to be transformed into the Prelacy of the Armenian Church!

Mari Austin ● 1043d

There was a skip outside for about 2 weeks a few weeks ago. Now it's all internal mess that needs dealing with but I've no idea if any 'change of use' legislation needs to be adhered to. The rooms above the PR are occupied - someone is living on-site which is good - and the windows have all been replaced. The old Bees shop has its lights on in the evenings from time to time, but I hope no more quiz nights are planned without local consultation. I will certainly take up Guy's offer to raise concerns with the Bishop when they meet.

Cathy Jones ● 1043d

The problem is that the Parking will lead to a 7 day parking regime with much longer hours and will be borne by residents. And there will still be many vehicle movements.Residents always end up paying the price.

Raymond Havelock ● 1044d

A friend has given me the e-mail address, telephone and address of the Bishop who he says is very quick to respond to e-mails etc., Whilst the address and telephone number are on public websites I don't feel that it's my place to put the e-mail address on a public forum. If you require it please let me know. It might speed things up regarding you getting information and letting local people know what's happening in their community.

Mari Austin ● 1044d

I don't think squatters were there for any length of time. It seems to me that there has been work going on inside the building for some months now. Also, unless I am mistaken, new windows have been put in upstairs.I agree that there will most likely be an issue with parking when and if it comes to being a community centre.

Anne England ● 1044d

I assume that most of the internal rubbish has come from the various squatters that were evicted at different times. The biggest problem for the neighbours is once this is up and running will be parking.

David Squire ● 1044d

The lack of a skip outside the building suggests not much is going on...but put your nose on the front window and you'll be shocked at the amount of rubble piled up.

Jim Lawes ● 1045d

There is nothing current in the online planning system for the PR (107 Ealing Road), so it looks like they've not even applied for any permissions. But I honestly don't know what would be needed to change a pub into a community centre.

Bryan Betts ● 1045d

Well, if the planning application has expired then maybe it's high time New road and Breamar Road were properly incorporated into the St Paul's Conservation area which should have happened at the instigation of the CA over 2 decades ago but was left out pending stadium redevelopment as a stadium.

Raymond Havelock ● 1047d

Ref GP, my information at present is very limited but I have written to Ecoworld seeking an update from the horse's mouth.Ref PR, I have established contact with the "Primate of the Diocese of the Armenian Church of the UK and Ireland" ie the bishop who is in charge of all this but I have not had an opportunity to meet him.I am actually likely to see him informally in early July but probably need a formal meeting. Would be very happy to receive emails from anybody outlining their concerns so I have them on the agenda for a discussion.

Guy Lambert ● 1047d

Not seen anything indicating EcoWorld's new proposal. The existing planning permission expired last December. They will need to start from scratch to get fresh approval. It is very frustrating. I hope Guy reads this exchange and perhaps can update us both on the change of use rules for the Princess Royal and where EcoWorld are with their "closed doors" discussions.....

Cathy Jones ● 1048d

It is all rather odd, or intriguing. To say the least. But is visible. More worrying are the behind closed doors manoeuvring of Ecoworld for the stadium redevelopment which is evolving again towards something very far removed from what was originally approved and generally accepted locally as suitable.I hope councillors are going to convey whats going on in that domain.

Raymond Havelock ● 1048d

I have nothing against the proposed new usage of the site - none that spring to mind or are currently obvious, at least. What I don't understand is why people would be spending time, money and effort on a building for which - as far as I know - they have not yet been granted planning permission for change of use. I really don't know how these things work, so if anybody does please explain. Maybe Guy Lambert knows the situation.

Anne England ● 1048d

One wonders if council officers for both building control and for semi protected buildings ever visit the sites unless they are from the sorts of larger developers who offer good careers.

Raymond Havelock ● 1049d

The building work at the Royal is like so many ethnic builders no outside advertising no site rules no one wearing any PPE. Totally unregulated.

David Squire ● 1049d

Presumably serving tea and coffee.. as the old booze license would have expired!Actually I'm supportive of Armenians. They are known to be pleasant people and their ancesters have suffered much in the past. Nonetheless..they should respect the neighbours... noting that the immediate next door residence in Ealing Road is for sale!

Jim Lawes ● 1049d

And the back hall/room. Bees shop was the pub's off licence.Been a lot of slightly odd activity there, at odd hours. At least odd for builders.

Raymond Havelock ● 1050d

My understanding is that the same group have bought both the Princess Royal and the former Bees shop.

Anne England ● 1050d

Yes, there was a quiz night taking place in the old BFC shop which was a pretty odd place to hold an event with no warning to neighbours. It was loud and not a great way to introduce the new owners to their local community!

Cathy Jones ● 1050d

Apparently there is a planning application in for the pub to become an Armenian Community Centre. I have no idea whether this has been granted but whoever bought the property has been cracking on with sorting the interior. I think there are new windows in the upstairs part as well.

Anne England ● 1050d

The last gasp of an old Bees supporter?

David Burke ● 1051d