Forum Topic

Waterman's Park C9 cycle track lanterns switched on...

There is now elegant lighting on the new cycle track as it passes through Waterman's Park ...by the riverside.Looking over the roadside wall...the lighting gives a very agreeable visa ...being amongst trees and falling leaves.Brentford getting brighter?

Jim Lawes ● 560d47 Comments

‘Succumb to the temptation to jump into it for every little journey’.Well done. Brought your cognitive bias to the fore. Simply assume that’s what everyone does. Do you really think every car journey is two minutes to buy some milk? That’s the LCC basic argument and it’s entirely wrong.And tossed in your virtue signalling for good measure. What works for you isn’t necessarily what works for everyone else. Just think how dull the world would be if that were the case.

Simon Hayes ● 524d

I am not sure that Guy has ever said he is entirely anti-car and I'm hardly trying to make excuses for him, just stating a fact. Whatever, this is turning out to be an endless exchange so I'll butt out now. I can at least say that I haven't had a car now for over three years and manage perfectly well without one, particularly living in London. I'm not promising I'll never buy another car but if I do I hope I won't succumb to the temptation of jumping in it for every little journey.

Anne England ● 524d

Yes, I’m sure I could.The point about the car seems to have passed you by. We are constantly lectured by the self-righteous brigade that there are too many cars on the road. They should only be used for essential trips, if used at all. The LCC, of which Cllr Lambert is a member, is particularly vociferous in its condemnation of car drivers (child haters/killers/environmental vandals, etc, etc)I merely pointed out that there is a long standing and perfectly adequate public transport option he could have used for his journey. I imagine he has a Freedom Pass so it would have cost him nothing. Choosing to drive is his prerogative, but then talking about climate change and pollution shouldn’t be part of his narrative about anybody else. Too many moral judges on that side of the argument quick to make excuses for their own, or their pals’ behaviour, including you.

Simon Hayes ● 524d

Guy has never denied his 'ridiculous' car and uses it rarely. There are a number of reasons somebody may fall asleep in the cinema - the darkness, a less than engaging film, needing a kip - I'm sure you could come up with a few more.

Anne England ● 524d

A garret? What century do you live in?No point in face to face meetings with Labour apparatchiks. You don’t really do discussion unless it tallies with policy.I’m not ‘at war’ with you Cllr Lambert, but it’s you, your Cycling Campaign chums and your party at war with ordinary folk, people who are just trying to go about their lives quietly and without interference. You don’t seem to understand why large numbers of people might disagree with you.Yes, I read your offerings. But worrying that you fell asleep in the cinema. And what was wrong with the bus service you could freely (in all senses of the word) use at your leisure? Surely taking your car sets a bad example?

Simon Hayes ● 524d

Lucky me if I don’t live next door to a Tory voter. Imagine the shame.

Simon Hayes ● 524d

Be comforted Guy...you have moral support from me and many others.Don't let the b***** get you down.Blimey...he could be a neighbour!

Jim Lawes ● 525d

Lol, I'm flattered that you find the time to read my weekly blog and mine it for (incorrect) evidence to fuel your war against me from wherever it is your garret is.As I said, would be delighted to see you to make these concerns face to face at a surgery but I think I'm unlikely to be taxed by upsetting your concerns about my buying Jim's vote. Since I first met him when he was hanging out at St Faith's church chasing up votes for the Conservative party, and we had a lovely friendly chat, I think my corruption would not be effective use of a fiver.

Guy Lambert ● 525d

Ah, deflection now. Play the victim by all means if you must, but as an LCC member you started a culture war in London that’s only going to get more vicious. A lot of the viciousness comes from your cycling compadres in Chiswick. As you know, and tacitly support. Nothing libellous from me, but if you are offended, tough. Don’t go into politics if you have a thin skin.I feel sorry for your health condition Cllr Lambert, but you do seem to be struggling to manage. You don’t seem to comprehend that a lot of people are very unhappy about what you and your political tribe are doing here. You are certainly being dishonest about Whitestile Road and the impact of road closures locally. But then you are following a dogma rather than listening to residents.I note from your latest ‘amusing’ blog that you had to drive to Richmond. There’s a perfectly good bus service to there you could have used without even paying as you no doubt have a freedom pass. Driving your old car adds to pollution and congestion, or so you keep telling us. Not part of the solution, etc...By the way, it’s not a good look to keep telling everyone about all the meals out you enjoy. Insulting to those who can’t afford that luxury but also not good for your health. Stick to homemade salad and tap water, eh?And be careful, buying drinks for locals voters might be construed as buying votes. Better brush up on your LGA guidance.

Simon Hayes ● 525d

Thank you Jim, I feel the same.The people who have disagreed with me regularly and sometimes are thoroughly insulting and libellous, are not owners of names that I have managed to find on the local election register. They may be from elsewhere, using an alias or it may be an oversight by the resident or indeed from me.All 7 Brentford councillors normally attend our joint surgery this Sunday in the Digital Dock or of course have separate ward level surgeries once a month. In most cases we are more than happy to meet locals or any with a real interest in Brentford and meet them as they wish to attend surgeries without an appointment, or by arrangement, though for obvious reasons for security we would like to see they are the persons they complain to be.In 7 1/2 years as a councillor for Brentford I can't remember a single person accuse me face to face of being dishonest. People sometimes disagree with me, sometimes vehemently, but that is an entirely different matter. Incidentally, a  number of people who stood against me in the May election have taken the time and shown the class to write personally to me and express their good wishes after my recent health difficulties. It is richly appreciated.I will happy buy you a drink, Jim, for every such local who takes me up on my invitation.

Guy Lambert ● 525d

Well, the LCC are running transport policy in London, at the expense of everything else including public transport.Cllr Lambert is not listening to residents unless they say what he wants to hear on this. If he can’t represent everyone, not just a small faction, then he should step aside. If you find that distasteful then that’s unfortunate but this is a forum and I’ll say what I think.Alot of people are sick of the constant lying, manipulation and criticising of those just trying to go about their business. I find that distasteful.

Simon Hayes ● 525d

Simon I find your posts very distasteful.Ar you the same on the Ealing Forum?

Jim Lawes ● 525d

No point talking sense to Cllr Lambert. He’s brainwashed by the LCC. Even trots out their AA argument. Sooner he’s pensioned off the better. And when he can’t cycle how will he get about.....?

Simon Hayes ● 525d

8000 ? Was that when South Ealing Road had all the road works? and the LTNS blocked off most of the west side of Northfields?So how many vehicles use Windmill road then and now?HGVs trying to turn left into both Windmill Road and South Ealing road cannot facilitate properly causing mayhem and delays that radiate back often over 1/4 mile even in quiet times of the day.BM rd was built to take larger vehicles as was Swyncombe Ave  for the very reason that Windmill Road and Sth Ealing Road - both originally small lanes were already limited by development.It's always been reflected by the house prices In Swyncombe Ave and B M Rd but those properties and the road itself was built to mitigate the traffic and heavier traffic.Fact is Guy it has cause immense problems in areas unable that do not and cannot have mitigations.

Raymond Havelock ● 526d

Classic lefty swerve. Blame someone else. You are quick to take credit for things, not so quick to take the blame.Did those residents on Swyncombe not notice it was a main road when they bought their homes? And one ‘couldn’t bear it anymore’? Well, there are people who can’t bear a lot of things but have to put up with it.I think your figure of 8,000 is a maximum. What was the average over a given period? As has been pointed out elsewhere Swyncombe was built as a link road for the Underground depot nearby. All the closure has done is push thousands more vehicles onto Windmill Road. That affects residents on that road, and the roads off it, including Whitestile. To say otherwise suggests your brain is more scrambled than you admit.My point about ‘listening’ was obviously not clear enough for you. You listen to those who agre with you, ignore those who don’t. The majority of Whitestile residents wanted the barriers removed. You ignore them because it’s against your policies.Your AA suggestion must be that famous Scouse wit. Since most cyclists in Brentford and Chiswick are local to Carville so are an obvious choice to look after it. They can do even more virtue signalling and do something useful instead. If you are upset about the A4 and M4 you’ve rather missed the boat old bean. They are important arterial routes that keep the economy of London going.Talking of virtue signalling, your zero carbon homes are laughable. Are they using magic carpets to bring in the materials? Hand cranked plant onsite? One small development doesn’t offset the emissions from Ballymore down the road. The hideous Brentford car park is a case in point (and we both know those swanky flats won’t be sellable without car parking despite your guff about car free development).If you are really serious about cutting emissions you’d campaign for Heathrow to be closed down. It’s far and away the biggest polluter on every level in west London. But that would upset the vote in Hounslow wouldn’t it.I don’t expect anything other than political cant from you. But seriously, you should understand that you and your chums don’t have all the answers.

Simon Hayes ● 526d

There were 8000 cars per day going down Swyncombe, and I saw evidence of serious upset among people there including one who was living elsewhere because he couldn't bear it anymore. We reviewed Swyncombe in line with government policy, led by Boris Johnson and implemented by Grant Shapps. Certainly not a Labour policy (remember the London policy in Chiswick High Road was to keep more road and reduce areas of unnecessary pavements in part of Chiswick an approach which was vetoed by Johnson and Shapps - see original and originally revised C9). As to Swyncombe, the general upset in that road amongst those most damaged over weighed the minor inconvenience of those who had to do a maximum deviation (on major roads) of around 1 Km. I'm struggling to see closing Swyncombe East makes a slight difference to Whitestile!We are encouraging people (in line with national policy) to think about using low carbon travel where possible rather than using cars for every journey. Across the borough most new developments in car parks are car free (in Feltham, Hounslow, Chiswick, anywhere) and you may not have noticed that central Hounslow has been completely car free for a number of years.Yes, I've had a number of discussions with Green members about making construction less carbon hungry. That's why we are currently building the first council houses in Brentford with zero carbon and we work very hard on all developments to reduce carbon, often with Green members advising us and holding us to account.Your proposal for Carville is interesting, and I would suggest we ask AA members to take on the role. There are far more of them, they produce many times more toxic gases and carbon, the vast majority of noise pollution, have exclusive rights to use the M4 which splits Carville in 2 and overshadows it with a less than attractive structure.Obviously AA members would be more sensible but it rather misses the point. I want (and in many parks we have them) local people who love the park, use it and care for a beautiful environment.

Guy Lambert ● 526d

Oh, you are so wounding!You probably think Cllr Lambert’s weekly party political postings are amusing too.Interesting that there’s no balance given from the other parties.

Simon Hayes ● 526d

Better to have a 'little fan club' than none at all Simon.

Anne England ● 526d

I’m well aware of that and more than you will ever know. He’s not my friend or relative, so why is Cllr Lambert deserving of my sympathy? I’m sure he gets more than enough from his little fan club on here.

Simon Hayes ● 526d

Well, Simon, should you ever suffer from a serious illness, I hope you are afforded more sympathy than you are able to offer Councillor Lambert. Illness does not just 'happen' to people 'in their declining years'.

Joan Adamson ● 526d

Well, that’s one name for them.Then once it’s cleared they can use it as a nice little cycle track until the council finds a lucrative sideline for the park.

Simon Hayes ● 526d

Call in the Thuggees!

Anne England ● 526d

Oh yes, he listens to the people who subscribe to the current Labour policies. Swyncombe Avenue being permanently closed for example, because the majority of residents wanted it. No such consideration given to the residents of Whitestile and other roads, the majority of whom wanted the barriers removed. Left in ‘for their own good’ apparently.Considering the great climate emergency claims from the likes of Cllr Lambert, he and his colleagues display breathtaking double standards. Clamp down on private car use (though not in Hounslow, strangely enough) but encourage massive redevelopment in Brentford ignoring the carbon footprint of all that concrete. They were called out on that by the Greens last year, for omitting the Brentford developments from emissions data.As for Carville Park, why not get the LCC members to clear it and maintain it? They’ve enough time on their hands for other thugs.

Simon Hayes ● 526d

I have to say that's rather below the belt. Cllr Lambert, whilst I don't often agree with him ( or with most councillors of any party)  does at least make the effort and does what all councillors ought to do, take the trouble to be accessible and responsive. He's one of a few. And I think it's fair to say that his example and those of a couple of other Hounslow Councillors has set an example which has seen a few more become a bit more accessible.Compare that with the conduct of Ealing Councillors who are as anonymous and aloof as GLA Members or the invisible MEPs ( Had they been more visibly proactive, we may never have had the Brexit issue.)I have heard from many locals he's had a rotten bout of horrid health and that can befall any of us at any time.I do wish he would retire from cycling as I've seen him out and about on his bike and it worries me that he might come to grief on it. But it's his choice and it probably does work for him.I know that that was probably meant to be tongue in cheek but arguing the factual points in the most civil way is far better.  And I know you are more than capable of that.

Raymond Havelock ● 527d

Because I’m not in a political club or a cycling cult? That’s a good thing.But if you’ve hit something to say Anne, fo please say it.

Simon Hayes ● 527d

You're all out of something, alright.

Anne England ● 527d

Well, a bit of fresh air and exercise in the park will see him right as rain in no time. After all, as his colleague Cllr Dunne said recently, it’s their duty to get people active.Frankly, the tiresome lecturing from Cllr Lambert and his political friends is tiresome. With very little understanding or interest in other people’s lives or livelihoods he and others seem to think they have all the answers.Yes he’s been ill. That’s what happens to people in their declining years. I’m all out of sympathy I’m afraid.

Simon Hayes ● 527d

Whilst not wishing to get involved with this thread I find the comments you have directed at Councillor Lambert, who as you seem to be aware has recently been seriously ill, very unkind.

Joan Adamson ● 527d

Here’s a suggestion for Cllr Lambert, why not enlist your fellow cycling cult members to look after the park? You might even find some old bikes dumped in the stagnant pond there, so win win. Judging by the number of oversize bellies wobbling about on two wheels cycling isn’t enough to stop you all being a burden on the NHS. Some good manual labour would do you all good. It would also be a positive contribution from you all, rather than dictating how the rest of us should live.Oh, and on a personal note I suggest cutting out the alcohol, pub grub and curries. Calorie intake that exceeds calorie burn is a recipe for ill health, though you know that of course. Leading by example is surely something you would aspire to. Simply doing as I say, not as I do isn’t a good look....

Simon Hayes ● 527d

Our investment into parks - especially when we are supported by Friends Groups - have been both effective in improvement in Watermans and St Paul's Rec. People are now more likely to appreciate Boston Manor Park than complain about it as they did at the start of the investment. It will look even better when the improvement to the pond etc is finished shortly.All are well maintained (helped by taking maintenance back into the Hounslow-owned company Lampton Greenspace) and we saved an enormous amount of money whilst beginning to pay every member of staff a minimum of the official London Living Wage.We have a record number of Green Flags awarded across the borough and we are going for more, including 2 in Brentford. Green Flags are in large part about longer term maintenance.Our only unfriended park (at least in the old Brentford ward, now in Brentford E) is Carville Hall park. I 'advertised' for someone to start friends for Watermans and Carville 3 or 4 years ago and people came on line for Watermans, but not Carville.Nearly everyone thinks Watermans has proved dramatically (largely down to Friends) - anyone willing to have a crack at Carville?

Guy Lambert ● 531d

Thanks Maggie for the advice. Cycling is not dangerous, even if wobbly, if undertaken with a bit of caution.Of course, I am quite a bit of danger from powered vehicles, whether cycling (wobbly or otherwise) in another powered vehicle, and most of all If I take a gamble walking against the powered vehicle -the most dangerous way of using roads/pavements other than motorcycles.My biggest problem last week was a woman running along CHR, who very nearly knocked me off my bike because her brakes were not efficient enough to stop her as I headed down Clifton Gardens on my way to the doctor! I was genuinely pretty scared as I very nearly fell on my already healing left shoulder. However I got my leg to take the weight and we left it at a bit of a mutual giggle.

Guy Lambert ● 531d

I think Hounslow will always find the money for cycling though. Can I just suggest to Cllr Lambert that a wobbling cyclist is a dangerous cyclist, so perhaps another time don't cycle when you are not fully fit to do so.

Maggie Dodge ● 532d

Maintaining anything requires not just money but the will to do so. Unfortunately most local authorities have neither the cash nor the inclination to do that. Managed decline is the order of the day.Then they can trumpet some shiny new project in a few years to show how dedicated they are to improving the places in which we live.Then the cycle repeats...

Simon Hayes ● 532d

There is this obsession with all things digital even though it is often not necessary but worst of all doing things that are not overseen in particular for quality or very often not quite finished or not up to the standard that is reflected in the cost.All around ( and it's not isolated to Brentford ) there are good ideas and initiatives much of which has come about not by councillors but the hard work and dedication of individuals or small community minded groups.Then councillors supporting things in their patch or through their cabinet positions are able to support these through the council machine.But somewhere in that machine things get mashed up and come out  at the end not as expected or falling short.Waterman Park up until 8-10 years ago was a very good well looked after park and always well used. Then it began to get run down.Question is how long will it be before the Rebooted version goes the same way?A good example is the Excellent refurbishment of St Pauls Rec children playground.  I think it's in it's second refurbished state in less than 20 years but it looks like it's overdue for refurbishment already.It is very well used and really liked by kids. But the gates are knackered already, the rubberised ground cover showing signs of breaking up caused by rotted leaves which are all over the place which in turn are rotting much of the fixtures.It's looking neglected and being so new should still look pristine for a good while yet.I've just spoken with a person who has been in the park this morning clearing up broken bottles and drugs detritus. He also noticed the state of the park and remarked that there would be a few locals who would go and clear up and generally do other bits of the park but going into the kid playground unless it is completely empty is not really accepted. He did say it was disappointing that so many users parents don't much=k in to keep it such a way and the council cannot be expected to do everything. But it does need to clear the detritus away and not just empty the overflowing bins."It seems that nothing is considered long term and how long it will last and how to keep it that way.  And looking at Watermans park parts of it look exactly like that, a bit 5 minute wonder rather than a legacy of longevitySo many things are like this to numerous to mention. And so tarnishes such well intended projects.

Raymond Havelock ● 533d

Overall a great improvement. Good to see so many children enjoying the new play area.

Chris Dakers ● 533d

If pointing out potential deficiencies in a project on which public money has been spent then more power to Raymond’s elbow. How often do we see or hear news about exciting new projects allocated funding that either fizzle out and disappear or just turn out to be not so great after all? Plenty, all over London.Or does Cllr Lambert subscribe to the Boris Johnson boosterism view, whereby everything he is involved with is great, regardless of outcome?And why is it negative to question things the council does? You aren’t infallible or possessed of miraculous wisdom denied mere mortals. Just because you being to a little club that believes in certain things doesn’t mean that those beliefs work for everybody else. The Tories did that with Brexit,  but it seems to be a particular Labour characteristic in London.

Simon Hayes ● 533d

Glad to see you're using the positive as ever, Raymond.The revised park is hugely popular and will only get more popular when the  shrubs etc mature. I understand that works on the boardwalk are starting very soon, which will make it more popular yet.As to the lights "The last step in the process is setting up programming which will automatically dim the lights overnight, per Council lighting standards.  That is on-going, though I am hopefully it will be completed in the next few days."

Guy Lambert ● 533d

The Park looks nice and tidy but it no longer looks like a tranquil park.More like a strip of land tarted up.  I hope it matures.The lop sided pergolas do look more small back garden than Public use strength and fear they may not last long in and exposed location plus the addition of kids climbing them and fear they may not last very long. But why are they not true?The lighting looks a bit harsh and looks a bit too faux retro.  There are so many better ones used by TfL in other locations. Their glare casts a dark shadow over the pavement along the main road which has made the footpath very dodgy given that the main road street lighting is so poor along the road from Kew Bridge to Ealing roadIt's a shame the cycleway has dissected this small park in such a way. I still ride on the road, but it is a section of road where alertness, good lights and being seen are paramount. A shame so many others on 2 wheels seem to have an aversion to being seen and being safe

Raymond Havelock ● 537d

The loss at Victoria steps is about 25 m (linear) out of just under 400 so perhaps 5% of the park area It was a steep path and an ugly tarmac bit that was rarely used anyway. We'll get about half of that back by getting the previously long derelict boardwalk back.Cycle lanes are always controversial but that is a very dangerous bit of road for cyclists. I don't have solid data but I know I was personally knocked off my bike by a Transit van (just a cut on my arm) and my audiologist who works at W Midd was knocked off her bike twice on her commute from Chiswick, herself being admitted to hospital on one instance.The new park was designed with enormous input from the Friends Group, is very popular when the weather is OK and will look stunning when the many plants get to maturity (they look great already)

Guy Lambert ● 537d

I believe some are missing the point Yes the park had a very welcome update, but at a cost of a cycle path and a car park at Victoria Steps. What per cent of a public park was lost.

David Squire ● 537d

Weirdly I've never been intimidated by a cyclist of any type, though today I was twice intimidating by a horning car between home and Kew Bridge. One of them was not trying to intimidate me but the driver in front of him who slowed down as a courtesy to me at one of those reserves for pedestrians on KB road. I'm a very slow and occasionally wobbly cyclist since my recent illness.Enough that the first time I shopped in Chiswick I couldn't make it up the hill on the cycle path (I am improving :)).Returning today through the park/cycle lane there were about a dozen pedestrians on the bike lane - the one going the other way were obviously aware of me puffing and saved my bell, so a pleasant smile from both sides.

Guy Lambert ● 538d

This is the problem, slower cyclists getting intimidated by Uber cyclists and those who have no road sense spacial awareness or lights putting everyone at risk.

Raymond Havelock ● 538d

Why do we need speeding cyclists criss-crossing in Waterman's Park ...interupting the recreational cycling of others?

Jim Lawes ● 538d

Noticed too that Cyclists are not using it as it's a good bit easier to just carry on along the straight bit of level road alongside it.  ..Er me included.As for Kew Road. It's so dangerous now with a lot of cyclists using them in both directions on both sides of the road.  Some idiot in black last night came straight into me riding at speed with no lights forcing me into the road and hitting the bollards and causing a truck to swerve.  The only thing I noticed is the rider had a Kew gardens Lanyard. I will be writing to Kew today.I'm Ok but bike is damaged.Who is advocating this?  And who is supposed to be policing such practice?

Raymond Havelock ● 539d

Considering that there is a footpath parallel to the cycle route it is amazing how many pedestrians choose to walk in the cycle route.

Jonathan Palmer-Wright ● 539d

Well said - don't get run over!That said, the park does look a bit like a racetrack now, with so many parallel paths... Weird design. Does anyone know if the lights turn off in the wee hours? They were full-on at 5.30am last week. There's quite a bit of evidence now that night-time lighting is disruptive and harmful to wildlife, and that switching off even just between 11-4 can relieve much of the harm.

Bryan Betts ● 539d

Jim. Best not to walk on the cycle track, but on the adjoining path.

Chris Dakers ● 541d

Several people seem to enjoy walking the C9 cycle track...using it as a pathway. Give it a whirl. Good exercise and fresh air.

Jim Lawes ● 542d