Forum Topic

Wales 20mph speed limit.

Wales are going to replace the 30mph with a 20mph in most places. Will England follow? On a recent visit to East Lothian I was surprised by how many towns now have a 20mph limit.

Nicholas Beard ● 1392d11 Comments

Undoubtedly there are many roads where this is practical and sensible. Equally there are also many roads where it is a pointless and completely bonkers requirement. Why is it that with these ideas there is no long term thinking applied? Someone, somewhere comes up with a random wheeze and then the band wagon just rolls on, certainly looking at some local roads that have this limit you could be forgiven for thinking the guiding principal is just to make more money from the highly taxed and nowadays, despised motorist.

Vanessa Smith ● 1391d

I drove to my nephew's in Tooting on Christmas Day. Apart from a short start on the A4, it was 20mph all the way and it was excruciating on quiet roads. It's unnecessary and pointless.

Susan Kelly ● 1391d

If Road safety and kerb drill as well as Cycling Proficiency was as embedded into everyone - especially Children as it was for generations it would be as safe as it has been for ...well generations.The Hit the Peach adverts, Green Cross Code Man, Tufty. All these appeals to different generations but with the same message.Now with people walking along glued to devices or riding with no lights and ear buds, we are probably in the worst reversal of all that work over more than half a century. Something that actually worked and made British Roads safer than any other developed country.Now with an arrogance added to the stupidity, we have an almost Wild West on roads and I have not seen a single campaign of any magnitude to address the new issues that impede People's safety and carelessness.Every tested driver is taught to judge 28mph as 30 is/was  the national default speed limit for all roads . Subsequently, most UK spec vehicles have 30mph highlighted or prominent on speedometers. Not ideal with cameras firing at 23mph as it's not often clearly visible on speedos without having to look closely when one ought to have eyes on the road!I do feel that 15mph on single track residential roads would be prudent especially with such large modern vehicles narrowing the thoroughfare further. But A and B roads should remain at 30mph and everyone be able to gauge that speed as they have for 70 years. Messing about does create too much choice and uncertainty and with that comes risk.

Raymond Havelock ● 1390d

That increased risk has contributed to Children Killed or seriously injured which has declined by about 50% over the last 20 years  in England and about 2/3rds in London (from 546 in 2002 to 188 in 2021 (https://lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/lgastandard?mod-metric=305&mod-period=18&mod-area=ADASS-172178&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup&mod-group=AllRegions_England)

Guy Lambert ● 1390d

As well as road safety and kerb drill, pedestrians need to understand that being dressed from head to foot in dark clothing makes them all-but invisible in the dark as they step recklessly off the pavement.

Susan Kelly ● 1390d

Your post Susan reminds me of an old poster that used to be displayed.It showed a dog proudly waiting to cross the road.Caption?PAWS AT THE KERB

Jim Lawes ● 1389d

That must have been before my time, Jim, but they should bring back 'Wear Something White at Night'.

Susan Kelly ● 1389d

The link Guy has posted is and has been regarded as very poor for some time.As it states the method of collation was changed in 2016. What it does not mention is it was changed twice before that prior to 2002 and rendered the statistics incomparable.  Some of the criteria that  constitutes serious injury were mild fractures or a bent lamp post and did not  specify whether it was a motorised vehicle and most importantly who or what was the cause of the accident.Interestingly the biggest drop was during the 2012 Olympic Build up where , in much of London road markings and signage was enhanced and cleaned up throughout most of London yet a huge swell in visitor numbers.  The more recent drops are allied to the pandemic and large drop in vehicular movements and again do not reflect the increase in Cycle accidents which are only entered if they involve a motorised vehicle.Much of the downward period from 2010 is the wide scale  enhancement of Street lighting and the commencement of LED lighting on crossings and in known blackspots Londonwide.But that drop does not co-incide with the 20mph on A and B roads. Nor does it specify the locations of fatalities or serious injuries. i.e. Small residential road, A road, B road, Dual Carriageway or indeed the cause.The saddest thing is that many of the fatalities in Central London on bicycles ( and a good friend was among these) was preventable by digest and spacial awareness.It's extremely hard to accept a friend was at fault. The best that's come out of some of those is improvements to HGV mirrors and elimination through design of blind spots, but that cannot account for the actions of individuals not comprehending or being aware of potential hazards - which at least gets drummed into one when learning to drive. Riding up the side of an HGV or articulated truck or bus at a railed junction is asking for trouble.Which is why I firmly believe mandatory kerb drill and proficiency training is a must for anyone riding a vulnerable vehicle. And the 70 year old requirement for children riding on the road to have a 5ft orange pennant affixed to their machine should have been made mandatory here long long ago. Especially now that vehicles are so much bigger and close fields of view from such are reduced.The flaws in collation and the criteria for collation and the chopping and changing over 20 years is rather poor and just does not present a true picture.

Raymond Havelock ● 1389d

Totally agree. Watch any school entrance and students come out glued to phones and totally oblivious of the world around them.

Elizabeth Price ● 1379d

An interesting topic. I'm a driver, public transport user, cyclist and pedestrian and today, collecting our little grandchildren from school, was struck by the high speed of some vehicles whizzing by (Little Ealing Lane) on our way to the bus stop. I accept that cars are much safer at 20mph than 30 but a lot of roads are a bit silly at 20.

Eric Baker ● 1379d

Little Ealing Lane is a 20mph road. I see no reason why 20 should not exist in the vicinity of schools but it now has 2 crossings when it had no crossings,but a Lollipop Lady for over 60 years.The presence of someone in a uniform who would shout out at parents and children alike for not waiting looking or paying attention properly seems to work.But there were less distractions like phones and earbuds. But the chit chatting remains now as it was thenBut cycling and scooters were not permitted at either school with Mount Carmel and Little Ealing running joint Cycling proficiency schemes for final year post 11 plus kids since 1969.What alarms me it the complete lack of road kerb drill not just by kids but more by parents who never look, wait or acknowledge road vehicles that slow or stop.And the standard of parking and oversized vehicles is something else.It was 5 in a Mini if I could cadge a lift

Raymond Havelock ● 1378d