Forum Topic

THE C9 cycleway in Waterman's Park ...a white elephant.?

After all that expense...I've never seen anyone using it..have you?Cyclists would seem to be ignoring it and choosing to stay on the busyand narrowish main road.The construction of its continuationthrough Brentford High Street to Hounslow will cause much disruption.Is it worth it?

Jim Lawes ● 470d32 Comments

It’s all linked in, Anne. Fitness isn’t just about exercise and being able to do 25 mile bike rides with our cycling club. It’s about not being overweight, because that impacts on your health.I presume you are old enough to know about the warnings about cholesterol and sugar and all the other baddies we’ve been warned about for years. Obesity is a massive problem now, and not just among adults. Apart from heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses linked to that it also puts strain on joints and can cause breathing problems.Exercise doesn’t make any difference if you are shovelling far more calories in than you burn off. So eating less, particularly of the ‘wrong’ foods, is of fundamental importance.

Simon Hayes ● 466d

I don't see how eating less improves one's fitness in any real sense. Losing weight would certainly mean getting less tired through lugging the extra weight around but that doesn't equal fitness.

Anne England ● 466d

Touchy. I’ve no problem with people cycling, old bean. The issue lies with telling us that it’s the only solution to all problems. However, the LCC is far from ‘normal’ and to claim otherwise is nonsense, as Cllr Lambert knows.But why do you drive a car? Surely you are putting other road users at risk of imminent death or injury? At least that’s the line you and your fellow cycling zealots put across all the time. If cars are the problem then you driving one isn’t a solution, is it? Or are you just a hypocrite like the rest of your chums?

Simon Hayes ● 466d

I can assure you that myself and my fellow members are all " normal" people who use bikes on a day to day basis sometimes we even drive cars.Just keep on with your sarcastic  and insulting remarks to anyone who doesn't share your cyclophobic view of local matters.

David Burke ● 466d

Well, there’s a challenge for cllr Lambert. He can blog about his 25 mile ride.But, of course, you are referring to a cycle club. Most normal people don’t belong to cycle clubs. Since the idea of active travel is to stop people using cars but to walk or cycle instead they aren’t really likely to join a club to visit the local shops.Perhaps a freewheel down to Greggs or KFC for a nice greasy feast is what you have in mind. Plenty of calories to be had in the healthy High Street offers in Brentford. All sanctioned by a wonderful council!Frankly none of your pro cycling arguments cut much ice. You have a cycle lane along the A4 that nobody uses because ‘it doesn’t go where we want it’ (according to Cllr Lambert). So spend yet more millions on something that barely anyone will use again. The desperate attempts by ‘professor’ Pike to claim the numbers using the CHR stretch is a success are frankly pathetic.And even more pathetic is the claims that these schemes are temporary or experimental. Seems lying is pretty easy for some.

Simon Hayes ● 466d

Reply to Anne England

David Burke ● 466d

Well said,people cycle for many reasons, sport, getting around or for health reasons  the benefits have been well documented. On one of my cycling clubs - Westerley- open 25 mile trials ,.One Harry Featherstone at 80 years of age managed to  come in just under the hour.A fantastic testament to the sport.

David Burke ● 466d

It's fairly well known that it's easer to loose weight and keep fit by eating less than by exercising.  An average Pret sandwich, at about 500 calories, is equivalent to about 45 minutes of vigorous cycling, so a bit of extra pedaling up and down CHR isn't going to make much difference compared with eating a bit less.  And an e-bike won't help at all!

Peter Evans ● 466d

Ooh, get you. No danger of me imploding thanks. Fit as a fiddle.But if the idea of encouraging cycling is to get people more ‘active’ and thus healthier then its a waste of time and money if those same people overindulge in what they eat and drink. Morbid obesity is a massive drain on the NHS. It also puts a strain on your heart. My advice to those elected representatives out there who face this problem is to consume fewer calories than you burn off. You are happy to dish out the lifestyle advice, so perhaps take some too.How ironic that a report before Christmas concluded that the rise of escooter use is reducing the number of people cycling. The LCC will be fuming!

Simon Hayes ● 466d

People keel over doing all sorts of things including imploding while getting overly worked up about cycle lanes.

Anne England ● 466d

Meeting you would be pointless since you are devoted to your party’s dogma and your cycling cult. Your blind devotion is negatively impacting a lot of people, but you don’t seem to care. You and your chums certainly aren’t saving the planet.Do you really think the LCC isn’t a political organisation? That’s laughable. They started the whole culture war we’re now embroiled in. But you just shift the blame elsewhere, as usual.Cycling doesn’t give you superpowers or increase your intelligence. It’s nit even good for you if you are overweight because of the increased stress on your heart. I knew two people of advanced years who keeled over while out cycling. That was the end of them

Simon Hayes ● 467d

Laughable. Having yesterday received the latest anonymous letter from OneChiswick, the same outfit that was calling for me and colleagues to be shot a couple of years ago and egging volunteers out to find out where we live. This stupid war against cycling (if you have ever been to Chiswick - look who the cyclists are) was kicked off locally by the Councillors because they couldn't think of any other policies to challenge the Labour administration. That hasn't gone very well for them.As I said before, if you really care about this, come and see me at a surgery. I don't think you will, you're just a keyboard warrior from somewhere.

Guy Lambert ● 467d

Oh dear. Perhaps you ought to be more self aware. The LCC isn’t some harmless club for weekend cyclists. It’s an efficient pressure group, masquerading as a charity, with members all over local government in London. Two of its members, Andrew Gilligan and Julian Bell, were on the TfL board until late last year, actively pushing the policies you laughably now try to shift onto Shapps. There was no complication to implement any LTNs anywhere, other than the dangling of a financial carrot in front of gullible labour councils. The Boris Johnson administration was full of arseholes, so allying yourself to their policies reflects badly on you.You know full well that there are extremely vociferous and very obnoxious LCC zealots active in Chiswick, regularly posting on the forum on the W4 site. Classic response from you to play down their roles. They are not retired, though they might well be lizards. The campaign of propaganda, disinformation and outright aggression all comes from them.If you persist in claiming that the LCC is a harmless club then you are either a liar or a fool. The choice is yours.And how ironic that there are millions of pounds readily available to be spent on cycling infrastructure, yet the £150,000 cost of a feasibility study into step free access at Northfields station is left to local residents to find. Rather strange, don’t you think?

Simon Hayes ● 467d

I worry how wound up you are getting all excited by the Hounslow Borough traffic department implementing policy which was mostly initiated by the then Transport minister Grant Shapps, currently the SoS for Business etc.Of course, there a few people in HCC who are very committed to improve facilities for cycling (the rest of us are sympathetic but hardly zealous). From the ones I see there are usually more than maybe 4 of them who actually campaign, mildly, though they get nonsense about some of the nonsense put out by OneChiswick. They are mostly retired and are not run by a conspiracy of green lizards.Please don't call me a liar. I am not, though I know you disagree with me.

Guy Lambert ● 467d

From the LCC website:‘We campaign for Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, also known as LTNs –  a term we coined.’Then you wonder why cyclists are now more despised than bankers.As I said, you are a liar. Innocent little group of enthusiasts my arse.

Simon Hayes ● 467d

What nonsense. The LCC is a pressure group directly running transport policy in London. Where do you think the ‘climate safe streets’ and all the other nonsense originated? The fact that you pretend that it doesn’t speaks of either ignorance or dishonesty on your part.Members of the AA don’t regularly meet to discuss ways of changing transport policy, unlike the LCC. You boasted about attending one in your blog last week, alongside noted car hater Jeremy Vine.The LTN campaign was originated and orchestrated by the LCC. They even advised members how to deal with opposition. Deflection, distortion and ultimately ignoring opponents. They were stupid enough to leave the text on their website for a while in 2020 when the ‘debate’ was at its zenith.Cllr Lambert you are a big fat liar!!

Simon Hayes ● 467d

I declare my membership of the Goodwood Road Racing Fellowship, Motorsport UK and the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club. They are all as harmless and miniscule as the London Cycling Campaign. Most of us are members because it includes third party insurance, provides help if needed(like me against the guy knocked me off my bike and was convicted of a driving offence), organise group rides on quiet roads etc and social evenings. Today they are helping me to rehome an old bike that I will not use again for the benefit of a beginner. London Cycling Campaign has 12000 across London and camapigns on cycling issues, mainly about safety. The AA with its 14million members and campaigns on many matters, but mostly to make using cars cheaper (stop fuel increases, road pricing https://www.theaa.com/about-us/public-affairs) but I don't think a single Councillor declares their membership, unlike every Cllr who is a member of LCC

Guy Lambert ● 467d

Hear hear Raymond ...but more importantly members of Freemasonary too.Whilst they have great friendships and do good in their field of Charity...I  have much knowledge of their underhand undoings.Particularly in the City of London where Worshipful Clubs operate.Even in the old local Clubs like Rotary and Round Table..the masons will lobby for their man at Election of Officers time (AGMs)... whilst the non masons are not aware of their influence.Although freemasonery is eager to become more open..their still existsundercurrent happeningsI dread to think of the freemasonary activities amongst the Planners and Developers  ... let alone the Asian clans... but it is dubious.The Police and Solicitors are deep into it too.The poor Duke of Edinburgh refysed to become a Mason...but King George said to him "your not marrying my daughter if you don't.I could go on!

Jim Lawes ● 467d

Which does lead me to ask, should councillors and officers declare membership of activist organisations and suchlike?I know some are often very open about this, which is fine but others are far from open.Should voters know they may be voting for people who may be members of Extinction Rebellion, Just stop Oil, and the LCC, or even Age UK or any active groups in just the same way that Labour members eventually had to own up to being members of Militant, Momentum and so on, and that should apply to any officers or directors who hold positions that relate?So we are very clear about where their interests or real ambitions lay.I don't really mind as long as they are open and clear about it.

Raymond Havelock ● 467d

Increasing congestion is one of the key weapons in the ongoing battle with private car owners. Cllr Lambert probably thinks none of us are aware of the tactics of the LCC, of which he and other councillors are members, but we’ve been through all the recent traffic fiascos in Ealing and Brentford and the LCC have been a bit dim by leaving their tactical playbook available online for rather too long.Make driving so expensive and inconvenient people will just give up. Levelling down seems to be the idea, all heartily embraced by the leftist politicos (many of whom still drive their own cars and live in areas unaffected by restrictions) and a small phalanx if self-interested cycling zealots who simply can’t comprehend why most people don’t embrace their cult.When those people are faced with steepling costs for goods and services because the charges imposed on businesses are passed on to customers, or they simply can’t get stuff delivered or tradespeople to come, they will still maintain its in ‘London’s best interests’. Clearly it isn’t. The air quality arguments don’t hold water, as any study of the emissions map in the latest Travel in London report will show.It’s political dogma posing as environmental concern, with breathtaking double standards from those espousing these policies. Biggest polluter in West London? Heathrow. Not a peep about that from the elected numpties.

Simon Hayes ● 468d

Chiswick High Road was never a busy road for cars apart from rush hours and saturdays for shopping but was always very very busy with vans, light trucks, HGVs and Buses.  When London Transports Chiswick Bus driving school was in use, some 50 training buses daily frequented the High Road much to the annoyance of those waiting for a 267 or 27 which never seemed to arrive even then. In addition 60 BEA/ British Airways buses operated from Stamford Brook Garage 7 days a week.When all that went the road became far less congested and busy.But the congestion and traffic that the High Road has displaced is now stuffing up the Acton Green area all day long and well into the evening, that radiates into South Acton, Popes lane and Gunnersbury Avenue.All that has happened is , like CPZs shove the problem elsewhere but also into areas less suitable for commercial traffic.All because of a few cycleways for which there are so many easier safer means.But again Cllr Lambert evades the dangers to pedestrians in both King Street and Chiswick High Road. The insane bus islands which are near criminal in their inception. The use of the cycle ways by moped riders in both directions who then weave back onto the roads.The absolute mass ignoring of road markings and signs by cyclists and scooterists.All of which has put Chiswick and Hammersmith on the maps as mad and best avoided.And all this is OK is it?So you force a Quart into a pint pot but are completely unwilling to support moves to sort out the spacious A4 cycle route where it has been neglected and eroded because it does not go where you want to go?Yet the A4 runs parallel to both Chiswick High road and Brentford High street and then equally between London Road, Bath Road and the Northern side of the borough and is easily accessible via quite safe routes to all of Hammersmith, Chiswick, Brentford, Syon, Osterley, Spring Grove, Heston, Hounslow and beyond. With no spacial issues, minimal interaction with other road users pedestrian and vehicular.And yet LBH and TfL barely want to admit its very existence or opportunities, choosing instead to increase congestion and havoc.Something the activist groups like Extinction Rebellion have parroted in their meetings and no doubt others. Create Chaos by stealth.

Raymond Havelock ● 468d

Large clear signs need to be installed on the High Road indicating that the cycle path in the park exists.

Chris Dakers ● 469d

Regarding the number of cars using Chiswick High Road and comparing that with the number of cyclists using that throughfare too.  i t is a comparision fraught with unfairness.If 400 cars are on Chiwick High Road at any one time...and they are  all near stationary..then the number of cars passing is almost NIL.If only 50 cyclists  fly by uninterupted ... your calculations deem them the  most

Jim Lawes ● 469d

Oh yes, leaping to the defence of the cycle lane. Well done you. I think you missed the point, but that’s not unusual for those blinkered by the bright new dawn we’re promised. What you see is probably brought to where they pick it up by lorries and vans. By road.Basically the transport policy for London is shaped by people who think cycling is the answer to everything and that cyclists are somehow a threatened, protected species. They really aren’t. Cycling has its place but it’s not the answer to the things you lot like to pretend. Funny how the money for cycle lanes is bottomless but not there to make Tube stations in outer London fully accessible.

Simon Hayes ● 469d

"roads carry all manner of traffic, not just cars"And cycle lanes don't just carry personal transport - I also see cargo bikes and lots of delivery riders on both the CHR section of C9 and the A4 cycle tracks.

Bryan Betts ● 469d

Ah, yes the Daily Mail. Unusual reading for a Labour member and rather like the Guardian not a reliable reference point. But then you know that Cllr Lambert.Chiswick High Road is now avoided by most drivers if possible as it’s almost impassable. Reducing the number of cars doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in cycling numbers, despite what the LCC zealots would have everyone believe. It’s still a minority activity.Trying to claim spending on cycle lanes equates to spending on roads is patent nonsense. Cycle lanes only carry cyclists (although wait for the howling outrage of the Lycra mob when their precious space is full of private escooters!). As you know but choose to pretend not to understand roads carry all manner of traffic, not just cars. Or would you prefer buses, lorries, vans and emergency vehicles to use other methods to get around. Imagine all those Ballymore flats being built with materials brought by magic carpet.Raymond’s point about maintenance is a good one. Already sections of the cycle superhighway in south London are in a terrible state. I wonder whose going to pay for all this when the ‘Toxic Air’ Mayor has finally achieved his aim of zero private car ownership in London?

Simon Hayes ● 469d

Have you been to Chiswick High Road recently? There are nearly as many people travelling by bicycle as there are cars. Hard to find how much is spent on cycle or road infrastructure but the cost of cycle lanes is peanuts compared to what is spent on roads - one junction in Bristol with no function at all cost £50M, I saw in the Daily Mail.The A4 lane I use occasionally but it's not going where I want and it's completely useless on dangerous junctions eg Syon Lane, Ealing Road, Chiswick roundabout where it simply disappears as soon as it gets dangerous.

Guy Lambert ● 469d

When you look at the state of many of the sections off parts of roads its hardly surprising cyclists are choosing to ride outside them. Including Me.Several sections including A bit in Isleworth, Hanwell, Greenford and Kew Road are filthy, slippery, slimy and a puncture mecca.Nothing is cleaned and clearly the street cleaning trucks can't fit or manoeuvre to be effective.So already becoming just like the Great West Road cycle way which remains my preferred route but is desperate for a simple effective enhancement. Links to everywhere and direct and set away from pedestrians and motor traffic and yet remains as tatty and neglected as it has for near 40 years.Already it's showing in Chiswick and King St and that underlines the pure hypocrisy of making pedestrian led areas too dangerous for too many.

Raymond Havelock ● 470d

Of course there’s an existing cycle lane alongside the A4 that’s very underused. Complaining about lack of financial support is all very well but spending millions of pounds on things that are used by a tiny minority of people isn’t very bright is it?

Simon Hayes ● 470d

I understand TfL now has enough funds to continue with C9, at least the piece between Kew Bridge and Watermans. I'm not sure how much further they will go - as people know TfL has very little in the way of financial support.

Guy Lambert ● 470d

I use it westbound too but the route at the western end isn't properly defined yet and may involve a bit of jumping down kerbs.Looking forward to completion.

Tim Henderson ● 470d

Few use it beause it was built as part of the works on Watermans before any links or the eastbound lane were built. It is westbound only and i use it in that direction, but others will when the lane will when complete.

Guy Lambert ● 470d