Forum Topic

New A380 at least as noisy as a 747,

Following a post on the Chiswick W4 site,I checked it out.  I've got this reply from John Stewart today - Chair of HACAN Clearskies (the community  campaign group of residents around Heathrow; do join if you havn't already).Cllr Ruth CadburyLB HounslowRuth, Rob,As it happened, I was in Brussels yesterday for the biannual meeting of theHACAN-type groups from around Europe.  It is chaired by Martin Kessel, fromthe Frankfurt Group.  He confirmed the story.  Below is an account inEnglish.JohnA380 is louder than assumedMedia: Frankfurter RundschauAuthor: Wolfgang SchubertDate: 05 November 2005Fraport and expansion opponents present results of measurements/not testedin normal every-day conditionsThe Airbus A 380 was as loud as a Boeing jumbo jet 747 during the testlanding in Frankfurt a week ago. Moreover the [A380] causes dangerous wakevortices because of its size, communicated the German aircraft noisemonitoring organization on Friday in its measurement results. Fraportconfirmed the measuring data to a large extent.Frankfurt . "The shouts of joy [about the A380] are to be referred to theland of fairytales", said Sascha Friebe, chairman of the German aircraftnoise monitoring organization (DFLD). Lufthansa managers, airport CEOWilliam Bender, Minister President Roland Koch and Chief Burgomaster ofFrankfurt Petra Roth had talked about a "quiet giant bird" after the landingbefore 10,000 spectators last Saturday, which flew in "like a glider."The measurements of the aircraft noise service in Moerfelden Walldorf, whichconsiders itself as an "independent non--governmental organization" and ispredominantly organized in the airport development opposition, show theopposite. The mega-airplane, which should have been three to four decibelsquieter than the largest passenger airplane the Boeing 747-400 according tomanufacturer data, was as loud as other large-capacity aircraft during thelanding. The measuring instrument of DFLD registered 67 decibels overNeu-Isenburg south of Frankfurt.The noise might have been even stronger. On Friday airport operator Fraportsubmitted its own results of measurement, which are even higher than thoseof the DFLD. For Offenbach-Bieber Fraport indicated 70.3 decibels, inOffenbach-Lauterborn was it 71.8, in Frankfurt-South 75.3 and at level ofthe Stadtwaldhaus just before touch down 82.3. In comparative values with a747 plane, which had landed during the same morning, were only lower at theStadtwaldhaus. In Frankfurt-South and in Offenbach-Lauterborn the A 380 wassubstantially louderDuring takeoff, Fraport registered values that were below those of the 747.The Airbus however only weighed 400 tons. If it would be fully occupied fora flight to Tokyo and would have been refueled, the plane would have weighed560 tons and would have been much louder than the 65.7 decibels overRaunheim and the 74.5 over Weilbach.Fraport emphasized however that the measured values of only one landing andone takeoff of a prototype is not representative. The test plane was evenequipped with measuring instruments at the fuselage and the wings, whichwould have caused additional surge noises.The aircraft noise monitoring organization criticized also that the A 380was not tested under everyday life conditions. The air traffic control (DFS)granted the pilots "ideal landing conditions". The distance to the next jetfor instance was with ten miles so large that the A 380 could land "with lowspeed and therefore quietly". DFS spokesperson Axel Raab said, they hadopted for a large distance for safety reasons because of possibleturbulence.Those are extremely large according to data of the DFLD. The A 380 hascaused, "a good two minute tornado with noise values of about 70 decibels,"said Friebe. Such turbulence he has "never experienced". If the plane wouldhave flown very low over Raunheim, "the roofs would have blown off".Wolfgang Schubert

Ruth Cadbury ● 7474d13 Comments

Whilst on other threads and on the Chiswick Forum..I have complained about the actual numbers of aircraft that fly over our heads between 4.20am (currently) and 6am each morning...it seems from information I have read on the HACAN website..that the Department of Transport already has an agreement with the airlines to allow these flights.The night time quota currently agreed..I believe..is 5800 arrival flights each year..which equates with just under 16 prior to 6am arrivals each night. Last week I counted 10 flights between 4.40am and 5.15am  so the 16 figure is likely to have been exceeded. ...but that is allowed. Its the total per year that counts. But who counts? And who measures the noise level.Apparently this 5800 a year agreement expired last month. Normally an agreement is made for a 5 or six year period. Because the agreement lapsing in October 2005 was not renegotiated earlier in the year..perhaps because of Government cunning..it was agreed to extend the 5800 agreement for one more year to October 2006.  As I understand it..it is this new 5/6 year agreement ..taking effect from  October 2006 authorising an increase in nights flights from 5800 to 6420 per year...about 2 a night..that has recently been the source of contention.The Trojan Horse label has been attached by some observers to the Heathrow dealings. If the 6420 flights in numbers...is going to be further increased because noise levels from new or modified aircraft are claimed to be less..I think that we have a fight on our hands.It doesn't appear that the Government, the Airlines, BAA or perhaps some of our MP's 100% are on our side. Stories of Kew Gardens management staying quiet, and rumours that aircraft noise is manipulated sometimes when the measuring meters are out..doesn't bode well. Stories that T5 foundations had already been started before the go-ahead had been given..that T1 and T3  are being extensively developed already..that T5 is really in some ways a T5a T5b and a T5c..suggests that vigourous campaigning needs to continue. Locals need facts and better information. Please tell me if any of the above is incorrect?Please diary the forthcoming meetings, perhaps join the Campaign groups...at least sign on for their e-mails..otherwise we could finish up with all day and all night aircraft noise ..without alternating runways! If the authorities are able to say "well, we've had no objections" future generations (and us) will have no-one to blame but ourselves!

Jim Lawes ● 7468d

For all those interested in the topic of aircraft noise, I attach this notice of a general meeting for the public sponsored by the Environmental Law Foundation. Ruth will be chairing:Aviation, Noise and Children6th December, 5pm-8pm, Hounslow Education Centre,Martindale Road, Hounslow, TW4 7HE The Environmental Law Foundation would very much like to invite you to a discussion on aircraft noise, fuel emissions and the impact on children’s learning, particularly outdoors.This event will be chaired by Councillor Ruth Cadbury (Hounslow) with a panel of  legal, technical and policy specialists, including Richard Buxton (solicitor), Pete Lockley (Aviation Environment Federation), Phil Michaels (solicitor, Friends of the Earth), David Purchon (environmental health specialist), John Stewart (HACAN), Steophen Turner (Defra) and David Wolfe (barrister, Matrix Chambers).This is a community event – all are welcome.Your questions and input are invited ….  Another terminal at Heathrow?  Noise insulation?  Noise mapping?  Air quality?  …. Can children hear their teachers? ....  in the classroom?.... outside?  Who is responsible?This is a chance to come and be heard .. and talk to the experts.Please find attached an invitation and booking form (no cost) and also a map.  In addition if you are able to display the poster, that would be much appreciated.Please call Sarah on 020 7404 1030 or e-mail on info@elflaw.org for further details and to put forward a question.  Please register early as places are limited.The Environmental Law Foundation (ELF) looks forward to seeing you.Sarah LonghurstCommunity Outreach Coordinator

Nigel Moore ● 7471d