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I did work in the industry for a time and freely admit to being personally very unproductive. However, overall the answer to your question is no. There are lots of cases of good products and businesses not being successful because they didn't advertise and market themselves correctly and there are also lots of cases of businesses who survive because of effective promotion rather than good quality product. Taking the brand you mention Sony - they charge a premium price for products that are often made in the same factories that non-branded products are made. However, the cost of developing that brand through advertising isn't simply passed through to the customer. By having a strong brand they sell more product giving them economies of scale and allowing them to cut prices. The brand value gives them better profit margins but to maintain this value they must innovate and invest to be at the cutting edge.Of course, this is just one successful example and there are many companies who get it completely wrong but generally advertising spend is carefully assessed and the responses measured as accurately as possible. In my experience the exception was always the public sector where the approach was very different. They never seemed particularly interested in responses it was more that advertising was in the budget and therefore the money had to be spent. Inevitably this meant that they would get a poorer service from the industry and they were always deemed to be insensitive to price. Millions are wasted in this way every year. In that sense everybody pays more to enable the advertising industry to prosper at their expense through their Council Tax.

Justin Harris ● 7124d

Your seemingly tough question John is worthy of being included in an Advanced Level Examination Paper!  But I'm sure that Brentford's lively Forum could have a good bash at answering it..if only its posters could get away from some more pressing Forum discussions..or today's Fiendish Sudoku in The Times.Perhaps you are asking several questions at once....and its best to tackle them individually. I'll have a go anyhow. When goods and some services are produced and are ready to hit the market...in simple terms you will agree... that they will not move very far without some publicity. We wouldn't have known who was standing for Labour Party at the recent Osterley Ward election if Alan Sherrings hadn't produced and distributed his promotional leaflets.For any publicity to be effective...whether its to provide basic information, lauding the product's usefulness, praising its superiority over rivals..etc etc it needs to carry an apt message with the aim of being successful.  There are specialists working in this field...and they need to be paid! They would supply the ideas, the artwork, and source the best and appropriate supplier of print, audio, media and tv slots..linked with a marketing and merchandising arm who will have created a distribution chain, with point of sale literature and support etc etc. All these expenses would be added to and absorbed in the basic cost.  1) People who are "making a living from from such advertising revenue" in my view ARE PRODUCTIVE. They need to have worthy skills to promote and support the brand...the service or the product.Was it not said that only 20% of advertising is effective..but that nobody knows which 20%. But advertising competantly is vital for most brands all the same.Whether promoting Readers Digest magazines, Sainsbury's Stores, or encouraging you to buy Persil rather than Ariel...the success of sales is determined greatly by a network of merchandising,marketing,and "Advertising" money-laden careerists.The producer of the product would endeavour to set the  price (RRP)..and perhaps have a list of authorised dealers or stockists...who would then be supported.Prior the arrival of the Internet, the formal and semi formal distribution networks of goods and services was not without problems however. Products being shipped out to Nigeria at discount prices..only to be reversed back into the UK before the goods had left Felixstowe  for example. Such practices obviously hurt the producer's formal marketing in the UK. Producers wanted to have control of their marketing..but increasingly the retailing groups became larger and stronger and started to lay down the law.Tesco might now tell Kelloggs that we are promoting your Corn Flakes next week and we want you to reduce your prices for that term. McFarland Lang were once a powerful biscuit manufacturer in this area..but once the supermarket retail chains grew stronger they laid down their rules.All retail stores must be upset at seeing discount stores all around them..and now the increasing power of the internet is adding to their woes.Things evolve over time. If retailers selling Sony products are unhappy at supplying potential customers with information and know-how..only for the customer to leave the shop and order via the Internet..well that's understandable.Customers will mostly ignore the retailers offer of delivery,installation and after-sales service..and will choose to go for price and the convenience of internet shopping.Whether Sony's endeavours to give discounts to retailer's will stem the trend..I've no idea but you can be sure that Jo Public and Jo distributor will beaver away at sidestepping Sony's endeavours. John is secondly asking "" how many of us will happily pay more than they need to.....to enable the advertising industry to prosper at their expense?""Erm! Fiendish or just confusing? (This question..not Soduko!) Does it not depend on the product or service? I would prefer to buy my first iPod from a friendly retailer    in downtown Brentford for £10 over the Internet price just in case it developes a fault. But I'd use the Internet to buy an air ticket to Sardinia for 29p(!) rather than pay £50 to a local travel agent!John. How about you?

Jim Lawes ● 7124d

An interesting topic.John's question seems to presuppose that informative equals productive, whilst persuasive equals unproductive.  This may well be the case, although to the purist both could be seen as unproductive in that neither actually physically creates everything.  Taken to its logical extreme, it is because of our reluctance to subsidise non-productivity that we no longer have bus conductors, park keepers, a decent health service or many police officers, but I would guess that is for a different discussion.  MP and councillors, of course, are unproductive in the same sense!To get back to the subject of advertising, I suppose I would tend to presume that if it didn't work then the producers of the goods and services in question wouldn't pay for it (although I'm aware that in truth it's us who are paying for it anyway).  Producers are, after all, in the business of maximising profits and advertising budgets can be substantial.When I get the time, I sometimes join a few friends at a local pub quiz.  One of the questions usually involves listening to a piece of music which accompanies a contemporary TV advert and trying to work which product it relates to.  Although all of us sometimes watch television, we seldom get the answer right.  This would seem to suggest that when we are subjected to an overload of advertising we tend to become immune to it and mentally switch off.However advertising is far too sinister to simply be about instant product recognition.  What it actually does is to subliminally place (and retain) in our minds slogans, logos and brand identities which, in the absence of advertising, we might be tempted to forget about over a period of time.Less advertising would certainly create a more level playing field between producers and would probably push prices down too.  But are level playing fields and lower prices what the Coca Colas and McDonalds of this world are about?

Phil Andrews ● 7124d