Forum Topic

The cost of Hospital Parking is like rubbing salt into the wounds!

I am totally disgusted by the cost of hospital parking and think it should be free! For the sick and bereaved it is like rubbing salt into their wounds! In cases of emergencies remember to take your belongings and a bag full of cash for the parking! When you get there instead of concentrating on the injured you are worrying about the parking and whether you have enough money on you to pay it! In 1 day the parking at west mid has cost Debbie and I £20, we are feeding the parking meters instead of our children! What about the elderly, poor families and those on benefits! Even the staff are forced to pay these fees. If you park down the other roads not only is it impossible to find a space, annoys residents but your car is likely to be vandalised. Isn’t it shameful enough that the people of Britain have to endure the horrendous waiting times of our national health system but to add further insult to injury, pay a fortune to park our cars when we are sick!!!!!How can we abolish hospital parking fees?

Ina Chureetur ● 7133d282 Comments

Hi guys, sorry for the delay in responding, I was on holiday. Thank you for all the info, It's very interesting reading. I'll keep wishing that we will all see a day when parking at hospital's is free of charge and that the only expensive machines are the ones that improve your health unlike the parking meters.Fingers crossed hey!loveIna.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 6865d

yes ina is great well done girlfriend your one in a millionlove Deb xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Debbie Dewar ● 6886d

The House of Commons Health Committee published a report last week (18 July) called NHS Charges.There is a BBC report athttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5187740.stmand the full report of the Committee is athttp://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmhealth/815/815-i.pdfA lot of it, naturally, is about prescription, dental and optical charges but in the section on non-clinical charges they are generally very critical of the way hospital authorities charge for car parking.The BBC report includes the following quotations from various people, starting with the chair of the committee.Kevin Barron, chair of the committee and Labour MP, said: "The system of NHS charges needs to change, but first we need to know how the charges interact with health. In the short term, parking fees should be reduced - or eliminated altogether - for patients attending hospital regularly. It is unacceptable that people have to pay hundreds of pounds to attend for necessary treatment." Peter Cardy, chief executive of Macmillan Cancer Support, welcomed the parking cost cuts proposals. "Cancer treatment involves a lot of expensive machinery - a hospital parking meter should not be one of them." John Appleby of independent think-tank the King's Fund, said: "It is not the role of the health service to raise money through charges and co-payments. This should be done through general taxation through which the vast majority of healthcare is funded." Michael Summers, from the Patients Association, said there were many people with small incomes who were put off using the NHS by charges. "It is basically wrong to make money out of patients and their families." The BBC report quotes a Department of Health spokeswoman saying, "Trusts should not fleece patients unfairly".  This is a strange use of language.  It suggests there is a way to fleece people fairly!Clearly the government does not like the health committee making criticisms but at least there is now an official published report that can be referred to by anyone wanting to criticise the car-park charging system of the West Mid.

Tom Beaton ● 6886d

What amazes me is the lack of business acumen ECovert are applying to this problem. The car park is always two thirds empty. Without fail, I know because I can watch it from where I live. Recognising that some costs do need to be recouped then I guess a charge is inevitable. But I'd be keen to see some transparency. Last year according to a BBC list The West Mids made over 400K. Now exactly how much does it cost to run a car park?As someone who lives opposite the hospital and who has no off street parking I have to confess to be pretty ticked off when I see people trying to squeeze in to slots that are well beyond their own parking capability. The net result is that I have to date sustained just under £1000 worth of damage to my car. But the real frustration comes from looking out of the window and seeing acres of empty spaces in the car park. I also recognise that for a lot of people paying a penny means they are going to use the surrounding streets but the current usage of the car park space has to be improved, for every bodies sake.Given this overflow parking into the surrounding area is causing stress to everyone including the council. Why don’t the council levy a charge on the hospital for all the car parking slots not being used as result of people using the surrounding area. It would leave the hospital with two options.1) Increase charges to cover the cost of the “unused bay tax”! Until the car park becomes devoid of all vehicles, and becomes a net cost.(this I suspect being the option they would take regardless).2) Reduce charges and increase occupancy. Improving overall parking issue in the surrounding area. And actually increase net cash returns from the current cost base. With a view to running at break even rather than profiteering, I might add!!!!It’s just a thought. Having had our resident permits refused my next cunning plan is to have the one way and the traffic lights at the bottom of Amhurst Gardens made permanent there has been a considerable improvement in the overall parking in the area and the traffic flow out of Amhurst gardens has been vastly improved.Cheers

James Kirkby ● 6886d

Did you see the national press last week (THE TIMES)which published the report of a survey about the highest Hospital Car Parking charges in the UK.Appallingly, the local West Middx Hospital, located in Isleworth, and which most of us use.. appeared on the list!!It's to the credit of Ina and Debbie and others that the local Campaign was launched..(on this Forum?..and hence this long thread).The statistics (from memory) related to charges before they were recently reduced...and were based on average shortish stay parking.The Hospital's Chief Executive wrote to THE TIMES also..I've mislaid the copy..but I feel that Ina should be again applauded for her initiative. I'm sure there's more to been done. Real information needed.

Jim Lawes ● 6887d

your welcome Deb. xxxSimon following bit is for you, it is from the document that I recieved from the Hospital regarding the changes.Did you put the bike in the secure shelter?· The WMUH travel scheme promotes the use of alternative methods of transport. WMUH works closely with local transport providers to improve public transport links. There are facilities for staff and visitors who wish to cycle to work in the form of additional secure bike shelters, staff are also actively encouraged to car share.  We have also made improvements to the bus shelters and installed an additional stop near to the therapies and mental health buildings. 

Ina Chureetur ● 6947d

many thanks for all your hard efforts ina and for always being there for me and tyzjalots of love xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Debbie Dewar ● 6948d

Hi simon,Hope Shivon gets better soon, poor thing. Is she at West Mid? Tyzja is still at G.O.S.H but she is out of intensive care now.She will be in there for a while still but she is better than she was. so that is good.Tell Shivon i send her big hugs and get well soon.Ina.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 6953d

Hi InaThanks for your Kind words.Shivon is back in Hospital very poorly she is VERY Dyhdrated and cant stop being sick.Will keep u updated..x x

Simon Anderson ● 6953d

Hi Jim, Thank you for your kind words, they are very heart warming and thank you for the beautiful bouquet.Ina.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 6956d

InaIts seems that you have had a good deal of success in your Campaign to reduce Parking charges at WestMiddx. So very well done.It may be an idea to start a new thread/topic on this subject so that you can more easily receive your well deserved accolades...as you drew our attention to the problems..and have had to battle on many people's behalf. A bouquet for you!

Jim Lawes ● 6957d

Hi simon, hope you and the kids are well. Thank you i will pass on your message.Big hugsIna

Ina Chureetur ● 6957d

InaSend my love to Deb and tell her I am thinking off her and Ty...

Simon Anderson ● 6957d

I am curious to know what peoples opinions are with regard to the changes to the parking charges, over all there are quite a few positive changes but i am very sad that disabled badge holders are now made to pay. I am also curious to know how certain patients on benefits may be reinbursed.Unfortunately My baby God-daughter Tyzja was admitted to west mid yesterday at 1pm, again we were concerned about the car, being stuck in the car park. Tyzja was placed in intensive care this morning and then transfered to G.O.S.H. I removed the car and paid the fee of £8, much better than the amount before. When i got to G.O.S.H Debbie was surprised by this. It was a shame though that at such a stressful time we had to concern ourselves with what to do with the car and making sure i had left home with enough money to pay for it. I had to wait for a cab at 5AM, whilst my god-daughter was in the operating Theatre just so i could take that car out of the car park.

Ina Chureetur ● 6957d

Hi Mary, Hope you are ok. Shame these changes hadn't taken place earlier so that they could apply to you. How's your brother doing? well I hope.I am not sure exactly what they mean but am guessing that this would apply to certain cases of emergency like for example in Debbies case where she would have to stay for more than 8 hours or people in other such situations. I hope so.best regardsIna.

Ina Chureetur ● 6958d

what does 'may be entitled to reimbursement' - ''you either can or you can't claim in back''.

M Dowling ● 6958d

Hi Everybody, The following is a document announcing the changes to the Hospital Parking Fees :-Changes to parking at WMUH Between December 2005 and the end of January 2006, the West Middlesex University Hospital NHS Trust issued a consultation to consider issues associated with visitor parking. As a result of the information collected during the consultation, a number of changes are being implemented to ensure equitable and appropriate parking arrangements. Some of these will have immediate effect, others will be introduced in the future. The changes to be introduced are:· A new concessionary scheme for patients attending West Mid for long-term treatment (10 consecutive days or more) or for the main carer who is visiting a patient whose stay is longer than 10 consecutive days. A reduced charge of £1.50 per day will be introduced after 10 consecutive days.  The scheme will start from 1st June, further details are available from the ward manager. · A reduction in the general parking tariff for those staying for long periods of time. The charge for a stay over 8 hours has now been reduced from £11.90 to £8.00.  Short stay charges have also been frozen. · From 1st June, disabled badge holders will now be required to pay the same charges as other users. Those on income support; income based jobseekers allowance; pension credit; guarantee credit; working tax credit and/or child tax credit may be entitled to reimbursement through the hospital travel cost scheme. Further information can be found at main reception. · A full and thorough review will take place during May 2006, of all disabled parking facilities at the Trust, with attention being given to accessibility and safety.  In the interim improvements are being made to pay machines and exit barriers.· A number of traffic calming measures have been introduced to increase safety, for example electronic speed warning signs and speed humps.· The WMUH travel scheme promotes the use of alternative methods of transport. WMUH works closely with local transport providers to improve public transport links. There are facilities for staff and visitors who wish to cycle to work in the form of additional secure bike shelters, staff are also actively encouraged to car share.  We have also made improvements to the bus shelters and installed an additional stop near to the therapies and mental health buildings.  In common with most NHS hospitals in the London area, West Mid has a charging system which funds investment in the car park including lighting and security and support for staff travelling in other ways, for example cycling schemes. Unlike most NHS hospitals in the London area, West Mid has ample parking capacity for both staff and visitors.  We will continue to limit the impact West Mid associated parking has on the local residential roads through dialogue with local resident associations and where appropriate the local authority and police.West Mid remains committed to ensuring that there are adequate travel and parking arrangements at the Trust. We acknowledge the responsibility to our staff, patients and visitors to ensure fair and adequate parking arrangements and we will continue to listen to the views of staff, patients and visitors and improve parking and travel arrangements, as appropriate.Gail WannellChief Executive

Ina Chureetur ● 6959d

Hi Justin, the PFI contract was undertaken by BourguesUK whom re-built the hospital, under the terms of the agreement the sister company which is Ecovertfm get the contract for the cleaning , maintenance etc for i think it was 35 years. The reason why the profit from the car park is unavailable and can not be obtained under the freedom of information act is because Ecovertfm gets the money from this and under the terms of the contract with the NHS this figure is kept confidential.hope this answers your questions.best regards Ina

Ina Chureetur ● 6993d

I'm more confused that when I asked the question so I did a bit of research. West Mid doesn't come under Charing Cross it has its own hospital trust see:http://www.west-middlesex-hospital.nhs.uk/The BBC must have got the information for other hospitals under the Freedom of Information Act but probably didn't bother with the West Mid because it was too small. As a member of the public you are entitled to make requests so they would have to answer specific questions that you direct to them.You are also confusing PFI with contracting out. PFI in the NHS is primarily a method of building new hospitals.

Justin Harris ● 6993d

“…but unfortunately i can only fight one battle at a time.”They are all the same battle, the allocation of scarce resources and the problem of all political parties of knowing that if they did the thing right then nobody would vote for them so they are left with having to do the right thing…..yes i know, but i don't want to bite off more than i can chew, i have enough work to do battling the parking fees, and you are very right obout the political side of things.They could have all the money but the NHS is finished so the answer is to farm it out via PFI so that we blame Ecouvert and not them.I know that at the moment the prices were set originally by the NHS and then went up with the rate of inflation, so basically it is the trust's fault and not really Ecovertfm, but we/I blame them because they get the money. please explain what you mean " that they could have it all?"

Ina Chureetur ● 6998d

“…but unfortunately i can only fight one battle at a time.”They are all the same battle, the allocation of scarce resources and the problem of all political parties of knowing that if they did the thing right then nobody would vote for them so they are left with having to do the right thing…..i.e. “People would also be more willing to pay parking fees if all the revenue from it went to the NHS”They could have all the money but the NHS is finished so the answer is to farm it out via PFI so that we blame Ecouvert and not them.

David Johnson ● 6998d

Hi David, I think you have answered your own question really.I totally agree on what you have said with regard to the other subjects you have mentioned like telephones, televisions and many area's of management facilities, but unfortunately i can only fight one battle at a time.The parking should be provided out of the taxes like it is in other countries and should be free at the point of delivery, but that isn't happening and very unlikely to happen.At some hospitals free parking would cause a problem in which the system could be abused by people not attending the hospital, but this is not the case at west mid. There are no shopping centres or transport links that near by.If the cost was lower the issue would not be so bad, but the prices that are being charged at the moment are making a mockery of the sick and like the title says "rubbing salt in to the wounds".People would also be more willing to pay parking fees if all the revenue from it went to the NHS, but as it is, only a fraction of the income goes to the trust with the remainder filling the bellies of an already multi-billion pound company and this profit is generated by robbing the sick!I am disgusted that this has become a nationwide problem and those that are able to stop this are sitting back and doing nothing to change the system.

Ina Chureetur ● 6998d

Hello Ina,I think we are all finding that it is difficult to see the wood for the trees in this anomaly.  I would like to ask you a question, it is a genuine point that I don’t understand, but I expect that I will get flamed :-)You (and many erudite posters to tw8) have been upset by the parking charges.  Very briefly there has been a reference to telephones, televisions etc., but essentially it has been confined to the parking.I don’t understand why you object to paying for the parking, but you don’t object to the cost of the treatment, the administrators, the cleaners, the gardening, the heating, the stationery, the other areas of facilities management etc., etc., etc.I would guess that the majority of items are taken from you in income tax, council tax, vat, and other invisible stealth taxes.BUT THE PARKING!!!  Nobody goes to a hospital for fun.  Either we are ill or a relative/loved one is ill.To ask us to find change at such a time is moronic at best.  Parking under these circumstances should be free at the point of delivery.  Problem solved apart from two tiny niggles………...1. If the hospital car parks were free everybody would use them and it would be difficult to find a way to prevent that.  Of course it would be difficult; if it were easy we wouldn’t need so may highly paid administrators in hospitals earning six figure salaries.2. Hospital car parks do have a capital cost and need money each year to kill the weeds, replace the tarmac, repaint the yellow lines etc.So just add the necessary amount to income tax, council tax – wherever! It doesn’t matter, does it?It’s never going to happen.Unfortunately 68% of voters will vote for the party that appears to offer the lower level of taxation. “Hi Dave, sorry i had misunderstood……”Me too :-)  I thought Justin was missing the point that the West Mid. is often to be found under the “Hammersmith group” but I think the problem was that the BBC et. al. only jumped on the hospitals where the parking generated more than £ one million; in fact the Macmillan telephone audit was carried out on all 292 hospitals across the UK with cancer centres and cancer units.

David Johnson ● 6998d

Hi Dave, sorry i had misunderstood and thought Justin was asking why the total income of the parking was not shown like at some other hospitals.This is due to the contract that Ecovertfm has with the trust.I have seen the auditors report already last year but thought i had missed some information.I have also seen the freedom of information act as well but due to the terms of the contract they have the right to with hold the actually amount that the car park earns.I know Jane and attended a meeting with her last year.What i really want to know is how much profit is made from the car park and how much the sick are being robbed of.I am very curious to see what changes will be made.Thanks for you help.Best RegardsIna.

Ina Chureetur ● 6998d

Hello Ina, it doesn't.Justin asked…“Very interesting article and it shows that the problem is national but I couldn't find the West Mid or Hounslow PCT on the list - any idea why?”I chose that particular .pdf to help him to show that there is no consistency in the way that the media report the way that hospitals may be grouped, and that information about the PFI con for the West Mid and all the other hospitals has been in the public domain from the start.In the answer to Justin I mentioned that one approach was to start at a document like that and “drill-down” to find the information that you want.If you are only interested in the West Mid that would not be the best approach.  As a result of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, (ISBN 0 10 543600 3) you can just ring the hospital and ask for the figures.  Ring Jane Brennan, but it may be worth waiting a couple of weeks as the new parking arrangement s for the Trust are about to be published.Good luck with your campaign.      Dave.

David Johnson ● 6998d

Hi David,please could you tell me on what page of this report does it disclose the income produced from the car park at west mid?best regards Ina

Ina Chureetur ● 6998d

Hi Justin,  Ealing, Hammersmith, Hounslow etc.  - all the details are published e.g. for the West Mid, see (for starters, then drill down)...........http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/nao_reports/02-03/020349.pdf

David Johnson ● 6999d

Hi Justin, i think that the reason that West Mid is not included in the list is because the all of the money of the carpark goes to Ecovertfm and due to the contract between them and the trust this is kept confidential.Ecovertfm then give the trust £460k per year off of what the trust has to pay them for their services.hope this answers you question.best regardsina.

Ina Chureetur ● 6999d

Hi Justin, in the classification used here the West Mid. comes under "Hammersmith/CX".

David Johnson ● 7000d

Very interesting article and it shows that the problem is national but I couldn't find the West Mid or Hounslow PCT on the list - any idea why?

Justin Harris ● 7000d

Very interesting article and it shows that the problem is national but I couldn't find the West Mid or Hounslow PCT on the list - any idea why?

Andy Jones ● 7000d

Have a look at this:-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4850562.stm

Ina Chureetur ● 7003d

Hi Jean, I did see the news last night,Thanks for the other info, I'll get the evening standard to have a look.It would be nice to see something done about the costs of the parking not only at West Mid but throughout the country as it becoming a major problem.I will have to check to see if west mid have made any changes to the parking fees yet.This is another article regarding parking fees:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4853084.stm Thanks againBest regardsIna

Ina Chureetur ● 7003d

Ina have you seen that the press  have taken up the subject of hospital parking. Yesterday  it was on BBC television  then in the Evening Standard  and this morning on the Nick  Ferrarri show on LBC97.3

Jean Gilmore ● 7003d

Jim Lawes ● 7048d

Jim Lawes ● 7048d

Hi Colin, the charges at west Mid are disgraceful and a rate like at Barnet Hospital would be more appropriate for certain patients like in your wifes case and parents visiting babies and children, also A&E visitors that need to be admitted. Ecovert does have the maintenance contract at Barnet hospital but does not control the parking.I am very glad that you found the staff helpful, i have had both good and bad experiences during the many years i have attended west mid, and without the amazing staff of SCBU my beautiful baby would not be here today. I have also witnessed some of the problems that the staff have to deal with expecially in A&E on the weekends, it can become rather scary!On one of my trips to A&E i had an allergic reaction when stung on the mouth by a wasp ,the night before the festival at boston manor park. Two men had fought in a pub ending up at the hospital where they carried on.The poor nurse ended up jumping infront of me to protect me from the fight, and then just after a shoe came flying past into the room.Bless the nurse i think he was as shocked as i was!Bless the man! The next day the papers took photo's of Debbie and I at the festival, Jim put it up the other day, maybe he can put it up again so we can have a chuckle!ha!ha! my face looks normal now!ha!ha!Anyway i wish you and your wife all the very best and hope she has a speedy recovery.Take careIna

Ina Chureetur ● 7048d

Ina, having seen the pictures that Jim put on to the site, and being reminded of the costs at West Middlesex, I can only say that it is absolutely disgraceful. Brings home to me how lucky we are in Barnet, at least in that aspect, for a more friendly attitude to all this.Last week my wife went in for a day op on one of her legs, which rendered her very imobile, and indeed was told not to use Public Transport. With a flat charge of £3.00 I was able to take her, and on return was allowed to take straight from the Outpatients Dept,under the guidance of one of the parking attendants, what a contrast it would appear!Incidentally the staff were most helpful and kind too, I never knock the NHS when it gets it right, especially when sometimes they have to put up with undeserved abuse from members of The Public who should know better.

Colin Vaughan ● 7048d

thank you jim, it's great to see such support from everyone, it would be nice to see more support and you have just given me a few idea's. I have started this campaign and be re-assured that i won't stop until i see some serious changes ,and i do not mean the pathetic ones that were mentioned in the consultation paper that show only how much more money can be made by the parking fees and how many more people will suffer greater difficulties due to them. I am carrying on with this even if i have to organise a march as well and i am grateful for those that are helping me so much with this issue.thanks again jim.Ina.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7048d

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££Any contributions towards to help..or enlighten this campaign ...from more local Councillors....from the MP?.....from the Trades Unions........from the Hospital Public relations section...from executives in the NHS?...or in the Area Health Authority...or Hounslow Council? You may have to march with placards through the streets of Brentford to the Hospital!

Jim Lawes ● 7049d

I take my time to read through the petition, some of the comments regarding peoples experiences are so heart breaking. How much stress and pain they suffer, and then their feelings of being robbed by the charges while they are having to endure these traumatic experiences.

Ina Chureetur ● 7054d

excellent news

Simon Anderson ● 7055d

Tyzja is back home now, she is still unwell but hopefully she will recover very quickly.

Ina Chureetur ● 7055d

Thanks Ina and Keep ur Chin up tell Deb I am thinking of Her and Ty...

Simon Anderson ● 7055d

i will keep you informed as soon as i know more. Thank you for your offer to keep her company i shall pass on your message.

Ina Chureetur ● 7055d

InaTell Deb I send My Love to Her and Ty and if there is anything I can do please call me like if she wants Company at the Hospital.Keep me informed about TY Please.Cheers Si

Simon Anderson ● 7055d

Charges are parking madBy Estelle MaraisA woman fed up with being left out of pocket on every trip to West Middlesex hospital, Isleworth, has started a petition to get parking fees reduced on the site.Isleworth resident Ina Chureetur began the campaign after she and a friend coughed up a total fee of £20 in just a one-day trip to West Mid with their children who regularly have to visit the hospital.The single mother of three has enlisted Brentford and Isleworth MP Ann Keen's support in her petition to have the fees reduced.Miss Chureetur 32, said: "I am totally disgusted by the cost of hospital parking, it's far too high."People shouldn't have to be charged for parking because they are sick, it's a financial strain and it's like rubbing salt into their wounds."In one day, parking at West Mid has cost myself and my friend £20 we are feeding the parking meters instead of our children."The current minimum charge for parking at West Middlesex hospital is £1.20 and allows the user to stay for up to one hour.According to the hospital the cost for car parking on the premises relates to ongoing maintenance, security and management of these facilities.It is also used to ensure dedicated emergency, essential user, staff and disabled spaces are effectively controlled and available when required.The hospital spokeman said it is carrying out an ongoing review of parking Anyone interested in taking part in the petition should sign the online form at www.ipetitons.com in the campaigns section under hospitalparkingsaltinwounds' or contact Miss Chureetur

Ina Chureetur ● 7055d

bump

Ina Chureetur ● 7059d

bump

Ina Chureetur ● 7062d

Thank you jim and Simon, the lovely pictures and your words mean alot to us and bring us comfort at this difficult time and also give us the courage to carry on with what we are doing.

Ina Chureetur ● 7063d

I met with debbie up at the Hospital today "At Last" she is wicked a really lovely lady and her little 1 is so sweet.I really hope Ty gets better ASAP and Ty and Deb goes home soon..I will be thinking of them always.Love Si x x

Simon Anderson ● 7063d

Ina and Dewar...So sorry to hear about today's additional trauma..and thanks all your efforts. Your campaign is being appreciated by hundreds of us..and we hope it stays in the headlines.If Matt and Councillor Phil are involved..and you have also the support of the local press...it means that the West Middx Hospital Authorities will have to start taking note.Here are some flowers to help you through the weekend.

Jim Lawes ● 7063d

Here goes the salt in to our wounds! My heart is breaking as my baby God-daughter Tyzja has been admitted to west mid from 4am this morning.I have already made 1 trip to the hospital and so far between Debbie and I we have paid £15.90 in parking fees!It's a busy day and the trips to the hospital are far from done.All I can say is that these charges are shamefull.

Ina Chureetur ● 7063d

does anyone know if there are any rules or laws to prevent companies from over charging for things in hospital such as the parking and phone calls?personal i feel that these high charges are like robbing the sick!

Ina Chureetur ● 7070d

hi mary, yes it would be interesting to see the figures. unfortunately we are only allowed to know part of it and that is 460K at least which is deducted from the total amount that the NHS have to pay Ecovertfm per year.

Ina Chureetur ● 7073d

thanks ina - i might just give that a try.i was thinking - when you use the disabled badge inside the hospital grounds you don't have to park in the main car park. really theres not alot of places you cannot park. for instance outside main building on the drop off area i often see disabled badges in windows. when i take my dad over and use his badge i often stop ecovert men and ask can i park here i have never been told no. the badge enables you to stop on a yellow line. so if they do put charges for disabled badge holder in the main car park the badge holder will just park in the other parts of the hospital. just a thought. also i would like to see the figures of the amount of money made out of the car park - i bet they make interesting reading. theres a constant flow of cars in and out of it at all times of the day and night.

M Dowling ● 7074d

Hi Mary I did mention your name and your situation at the meeting last week.Try going to the Ecovertfm office and asking them if you can have a pass. State that your brother has been in hospital since september last year and that you visit him daily. Tell them that i mentioned your case at my meeting with Jane Brennan and Mike Gennery. Mike is away at the moment but hopefully they will be able to still help you out. fingers crossed.please would you be so kind as to sign my on-line petition http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/Hospitalparkingrubssaltinwounds thank you and let me know how you get on.

Ina Chureetur ● 7074d

i visit the hospital most days of the week.i have been there at just about every hour of the day and in my opinion the car park is by far too big. i have never seen it with any cars to the left when you receive your ticket as you drive in. its just a great big wasted empty space. maybe should have been more hospital beds and less car park. more people would use the car park if it wasnt so expensive. my brother is in marjory warren right at the back of the hospital and nearly all visitors i speak to refuse to pay the charges and park on the road running down to syon park. they are so short of beds in my brothers ward they have a physoptherapy gym - it cant be used for physio anymore by all the patients that really need it because its doubling up now as a ward. i say ward its a couple of old people in beds in a room that looks even more depressing than a normal ward.

M Dowling ● 7075d

ok thank you very much.I will post it in the morning.

Ina Chureetur ● 7075d

Please send me a Written petition I will get loads of sigs even if have to spend the day in The Hospital car Pk..Place your add on Envelope so I can send it Back to you.cheersI have several waiting to sign but have no Computer

Simon Anderson ● 7075d

thank you

Ina Chureetur ● 7075d

have you signed my petition? Yes.West Middlesex Parking Petition

Paul Allen ● 7075d

oh i forgot to say thank you, and thanks to simon.i need to get alot more signature.

Ina Chureetur ● 7075d

This is exactly my complaint. there are the 3 options that the hospital have given in the consultation paper on the front page of this site as well as on this thread.It's quite obvious that they will choose option 3 and when they raise the price so high then they will say that it is because of the concessions that they allow, at the moment they are blaming the high cost on the up keep of the free disabled parking.have you signed my petition? if you agree to the points i have made i would be grateful for your signature and anyone who you know that feels the same about this issue. http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/Hospitalparkingrubssaltinwounds

Ina Chureetur ● 7075d

If they go down the road of charging Disabled Drivers and Passengers, this will increase the amount of people paying how can they justify an over inflation increase in that case.I’ve no doubt that you’ve had a similar experience as my self, while following a Ambulance into A&E with a very ill relative at 8pm in the evening parking in the car park and finally leaving at 5am in the morning with a nice little bill.Although there are some who would say, why didn’t you follow on the bus?      So it would be nice to see the one off charge for X amount of pounds for X amount of hours, some people would only be there for an hour some the full amount, this Idea must even out in a twenty four hour period. 

Paul Allen ● 7075d

You might get a Call from the Papers as I told them about the Great thing you are Doing!!Good Luck with it all.

Simon Anderson ● 7075d

I totally agree with you. I think i would be entitled to a disabled badge because my daughter has disabilities but as our disabilities do not involve any problems in diffulties walking, i will not take advantage of the system. i totally understand that the point of this issue  (blue Badge)is that it's for nearer parking rather than the issue of having to pay.At my meeting the other day with the NHS and Ecovertfm, they had expressed an option that would begin charging Blue badge holders, we also talked about another car park for blue badge holders, The problems we found with this is that blue badge holders need the nearest point of access to the location as well as we did not want to make disabled people feel any different to others, in such a way.My main woory now is that it appears that the hospital will begin charging blue badge holders the same as everyone else and these prices will rise with the rate of inflation and become even higher.i hope i have made my point clear and that it is not my intention to offend anyone.

Ina Chureetur ● 7075d

InaI think that able bodied people seem to lump all disabled people into two categories, there either old and cannot walk or young out of work and on benefits.But some hold down good jobs and want to be apart of the normal community and pay their way own in life.The Blue Badge scheme in my opinion isn’t to avoid paying parking charge but to give a disabled person a decent chance of parking near a Bank or Retail outlet where there is no parking provided near by.There are quite a few car parks on the south cost that charge Disabled drives, but at very reasonable rates, which most do not mind paying

Paul Allen ● 7075d

On the front page of this site it lists the 3 options in the consultation paper. it is likely that there would be no reduced fee for disabled users and the cost would be increased with the rate of inflation.there would be concession but these would be for people who qualify for them such as long term patients(relatives).the rest you'll see in the consultation paper. Thank you for seaking various opinions on this matter because it is good to have diffent points of view. When i told my elderly lady downstairs she was furious.

Ina Chureetur ● 7076d

I haven’t looked though all the posts on this thread so I hope I’m not repeating someone else’s view. Has anyone ask the disabled drivers or passengers what they think about the petition?I have asked four, one under 60 and the other three over 60, all were fine about paying if the charges were reduced or one standard fee for x amount in 24 hours as another poster has mentioned.The only concern they had was the disabled bays were kept near to the main building.There are a few hospitals, “Brompton” for one which has no disabled parking or a car park, so its find a meter pay for an hour and get an hour free with the blue badge, you have to take a mortgage out to attend a clinic there or visit a ward for two or three weeks.       

Paul Allen ● 7076d

please sign my on-line petition http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/Hospitalparkingrubssaltinwounds thank you.Ina.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7076d

Thank you phil.

Ina Chureetur ● 7076d

Ron Bartholomew, Val Lamey and Corinna Smart.

Phil Andrews ● 7076d

Does anyone know who the coucillor is for the are around the hospital who is supposed to represent the residents? Is it Ron Bartholomew?

Ina Chureetur ● 7076d

Ecovertfm is a subsidiary of ETDE which in turn is part of Bouygues,one of the largest construction and services groups in the world.The annual turnover of Ecovert is £15 billion world wide.Bouygues built the hospital on the basis that ecovert get the service contract for 35 years, this can be extended to 60 years. £460,000 from the total amount raised of the parking fees is deducted from the total that the NHS have to pay ecovert per year.

Ina Chureetur ● 7076d

I think  you will find that the money paid to ecovert was paid for out of the NHS budget.  There is a hotel service in west mid i,e parking, cleaning etc which is run by ecovert

Julia Parsons ● 7076d

"I know that you, the ICG and the residents have been complaining for a while now,so i hope that i did not offend you when i said it was left to little old me. I meant on this particular occassion.I think you are right, it will have to be a petition!"Not in the slightest Ina, as I saw it you were talking about Ann Keen.  It's not even in my ward... :o)

Phil Andrews ● 7077d

I like the way your Talking Now as your Talking My Style "Petition"

Simon Anderson ● 7077d

I know that you, the ICG and the residents have been complaining for a while now,so i hope that i did not offend you when i said it was left to little old me. I meant on this particular occassion.I think you are right, it will have to be a petition!

Ina Chureetur ● 7077d

SimonAs many will know the ICG has been working on this issue for quite a while.  Please see the relevant article on the following page:http://www.communitygroup.org.uk/id2.htmlWe do however welcome the involvement of sincere "opponents" such as Matt because in the final analysis it all helps to achieve the desired result.Like you, I am not confident that Ann Keen will get involved unless there is some political mileage to be had, but maybe by presenting a petition to ourselves and to her you may force her into doing something positive, if only to upstage us in the run-up to the local elections.The next three months or so will be the best chance you will have to get these people working on these kind of issues if you play your cards correctly.

Phil Andrews ● 7077d

Like I said if there was a Pic Op she would be there!!Petition me thinks............

Simon Anderson ● 7077d

Ecovertfm is a management company which is part of a company called bouygues uk. They spent £125 million to rebuild the hospital. Ecovertfm is a management company that has the cleaning contract etc. of the hospital not a hotel service.so why hasn't Anne Keen already done this? Why has it been left to little old me to highlight the problem?

Ina Chureetur ● 7077d

U only get a reply from her if there is a Photo Opportunity.

Simon Anderson ● 7077d

No I disagree, it is a matter for Anne Keen to bring up in the House of Commons, she is paid a good salary to represent her consituants, Ecovert did not pay to re build West Mid !! they are a hotel service which is paid for out of the budget

Julia Parsons ● 7077d

The Problem parking in another street is Lots of Cars have been stolen or broken into so I wouldn't advise it..I feel a petition would be a Better way to go about it I am sure Cllr Andrews would Back the Petition and Submit it etc as the Local Councillor!!

Simon Anderson ● 7077d

parking in one of the roads upsets the residents as they are no longer able to park outside their own houses,due to the high costs of the parking the nearby roads are choka block with the cars of patients and visitors. I think it would be useless to contact Ann Keen as this government is not prepared to give any more funds to the NHS so therefore it is up to Ecovertfm to recover the money that they have spent in re-building the hospital and the NHS can not afford to loose any money that they gain from parking fees.Unfortunately the poor and sick are suffering because of this.

Ina Chureetur ● 7077d

totally agree, I recently did a clincial placement at West Mid and it cost me a fortune - best thing is to drive around and try to find a parking space in one of the roads and write to Anne Keen MPgood luck

Julia Parsons ● 7077d

I knew it was to good to Be True they probably did say what you told us but Making you think they Didn't.You feel the Meeting was a Waist of Time- Not Really at Least you took the Time and Tried and its not your Fault about Minutes you didn't Know only someone who is used to Attending lots of Important meetings would realise this so don't feel bad about it.I would suggest a Petition and Get the Papers involved in the Story and Local Councillors.Don't Give up I will Support you and get petitions signed and go to future meetings etc with you But don't Let them win now-My Moto is Never Give up Keep on with it, It wont happen over Night Trust me I know.

Simon Anderson ● 7079d

Hi All, I have some corrections to make that i misunderstood at the meeting. The main car park charges would remain as they are, plus the annual inflationary increase in April 2006. (rounded up and rounded down to the nearest 10p but overall circa 2.7%)The consultation document does discuss the problem of long stay  patients, the cost of parking for the near relatives and regular attendance to the clinics.there would be a strong possibility that they would introduce a concessionary scheme for this type of visitor and that the daily charge would probably be around £1.50.I did highlight all the problems that were mentioned on this thread from the issue of what the residents in the surrounding area have to endure due to the high costs, the finacial hardship caused to the majority of people that are poor,the problems of parents who have children/babies in the hospital etc.We did not take minutes at the meeting. With this i am disappointed ,as Matt and I have taken the time and effort to bring to light the views of the general public and the problems that are caused by the cost of the parking. If all the opinions are not going to be considered then what was the point of the meeting? The consultation paper had been created before the meeting,therefore public opinion and issues would not be taken into consideration.Here is the consultation paper.West Middlesex University Hospital r1T:J.1NHSTrustProposal to change parking arrangements at West MiddlesexUniversity Hospital NHS TrustThis consultation paper is part of the Trust's ongoing review of car parkingarrangements on the hospital premises. It invites your comments and views on the proposals, which aim to ensure the arrangements are fair to all users whilst making appropriate use of public money.Basis for the reviewThe Trust has developed a Travel Plan, which aims to facilitate effective access to the hospital site by patients, staff and visitors whilst endeavouring tominimise the impact of this travel on the environment. The plan also aims to ensure continued investment in a range of travel options and, where necessary, investment in improved facilities including CCTVor better lightingfor all users. The plan has been in operation for 12 months and these proposals aim to develop the Plan further by ensuring that charges for parkingare fair to all our users.It is important that we acknowledge that there is a cost to the NHS in providing car parking facilities. The costs relate to ongoing maintenance, security and management of these facilities. We also have to ensure dedicated emergency, essential user, staff and disabled spaces are effectively controlled and available when required. Unlike many London hospitals the Trust is fortunate to have ample public car parking which is closely located to the hospital building and includes dedicated disabled bays at suitablelocations.Currently, parking for disabled badge holders is free but the cost of this is met through increased parking charges for all other users, who in many cases are no more able to afford to pay for parking than disabled users. Also, there is no provision for reduced parking charges for patients attending regularly for outpatient appointments or for carers/relatives of patients who are in hospitalfor long periods.Why do the current arrangements need to change?. The current charging scheme is inequitable as the general car parking charges are inflated to cover the cost of free disabled parking.. The trust does not currently offer concessionary rates for patients attending frequently or relatives of long stay patients. This is causing finacial hardship to some patients and their families.. There is a potential cost of policing free parking for disabled users which could lead to further increases in charges for other usersThe Trust cannot divert money away from clinical services to subsidise users or pay for the upkeep of car parks.The Trust relies on parking income to subsidies the cost of our facilities. Although we cannot afford to jeopardise this income stream neither do we wish to abuse it through excessive parking charges...OptionsThree options are being considered:1. Continued ample free parking for disabled badge holders and the introduction of concessionary rates for regular users. This would lead to a further increase in car parking charges for general users,substantially above the rate of inflation.2. Limited additional provision of free but time restricted (short stay)parking for disabled badge holders outside the main car parks with charges for disabled badge holders within the main car parks in line with general parking charges. In addition the introduction of concessionary rates for frequent patients and relatives whoregularly visit long stay patients (over 2 weeks). This would lead toan inflationary increase only in charges.3. Introduce charges for disabled badge holders in line with general parking charges and a concessionary rate for patients who have to attend the hospital on a frequent (i.e. daily outpatient treatment for a sustained period of time) and relatives who regularly visit long stay patients (over 2 weeks).Note: there is no legal requirement to provide free or reduced parking facilities for disabled badge holders.Comments on these proposalsIf you have any comments on the above proposals, please send them toCorporate Affairs, West Middlesex University Hospital NHS Trust,Twickenham Road, Isleworth, Middlesex, TW3 2HP or email tocorporate.affairs@wmuh.nhs.uk. Closing date for comments is 27'h January2006.Background on current charges and their implicationsThe new hospital building was opened in 2003. In July 2004 the new car parks were opened and disabled badge holders were required to pay for their parking at general tariff rates. In response to public concern, the Trust & thecompany that manages the car parks, Ecovert, agreed to continue with free disabled parking in the short term while the system was reviewed. For the next 7 months this was at an additional cost to the hospital.In February 2005, an above inflation increase to the general parking charges was introduced to contribute to cost of free parking for disabled badgeholders. However, the true cost to the NHS of free disabled parking is still in excess of £24k per annum which is unsustainable in the long term.In addition to this, the Trust has become aware that a number of visitors have suffered financial hardship as a result of parking charges incurred by relativesregularly visiting long stay patients. The Trust is keen to find a solution to alleviate the difficulties of this group of visitors. 

Ina Chureetur ● 7079d

M Dowling I stand corrected 10pm Thanks for pointing that out.Ina...There promises are not good enough I have been to lots of meetings since 98 with My Tenants Work and they always say they promise to do this and That and Dont, I will be very surprised if they Reduce the Charge, lso I spoke to a few Nurses tonight who Agree it should be free for them to park to come into work..where the Money will come from well I keep pointing out there is a Car Pk sitting everyday empty in The Hospital let the staff use that car Pk for Free why should they pay to go in to work long hours for Rubbish pay??As to the Security office most Times its empty as there are short of Security staff and For a Big ospital they cant be everywhere..Did you minute the Meeting yesterday?

Simon Anderson ● 7080d

it should be free but unfortunately the money has to come from somewhere and it cannot be removed from hospital care or treatment. They are hoping to place these sort of charges for relatives and patients that spend hours and days in the hospital.yes i have experience this problem and not been able to get out late at night,sometimes there is one door that you are able to go out of but cannot come through at night.there is also the security office by the reception desk if you knock there is usually a member of staff that can let you out.

Ina Chureetur ● 7080d

simon = 11pm - more like 10pm - your right its a nightmare!

M Dowling ● 7080d

Thats good but it still should be FREE to Staff..Also I have found a MASSIVE problem at West Middx.At 11pm the lock the Front doors so you have to go threw A+E, but the door you need to go threw to get to A+E is Locked and can only be open by a member of Staff and sometimes I have had to wait up to 20mins before a Member of Staff comes along.As to the Charges maybe these prices should be introduced to those who have to Spend Hours/Days in the Hospital with there Relative!!

Simon Anderson ● 7080d

yes i did discuss the issue of the staff having to pay.They stated that the staff pay from 50p - £1.50 per day depending on their salary.The staff that use public transport pay for their own commuting costs and therefore the hospital parking fees for them are reasonable.When i spoke to a member of staff from SCBU,she found the charge to be reasonable and was more concerned that there should be concessions for parents of babies that are in their care.Ecouvertfm told me that the staff of SCBU pay 50p per day for the parking.

Ina Chureetur ● 7080d

Did you mention Free Parking for Staff?

Simon Anderson ● 7081d

WELL DONE GUYS!!!

Simon Anderson ● 7081d

Hi all, today Matt Harmer and myself attended a meeting with Jane Brennan of the NHS trust and Mike Gennery of EcovertFM, to discuss the high cost of the hospital parking and the financial problems it can cause for regular patients and visitors, as well as the effect it has on the residents in the surrounding area of the hospital. Both companies were aware of some of these concerns, and hopefully I was able to highlight specific financial problems caused to parents visiting babies/children in either S.C.B.U or starlight, patients that must return throughout the day for multiple treatment, as well as visitors of long-term patients. The parking arrangements were already under review and our public opinion has been noted on this issue. We have also discussed extending the time of the 10 minute drop off zone but unfortunately this cannot be done as the hospital is already having difficulties with people whom far out stay this time, this area is also required for emergency access e.g. a fire engine, and quickly becomes clogged with cars. They have assured us that the Gas Guzzler is really a very nice man and that he has an extremely difficult job because he receives a lot of abuse throughout the day. They shall ask him to be more sympathetic to the needs of patients and visitors. If you are picking up a parent with their child, waiting for an elderly patient to come to your car or need to register your granny then you can inform the security at the front desk…but please don’t take the Mickey!!!! Ha! Ha! P.S. Debbie gets on well with the gas guzzler and says he is really nice!The changes to the parking arrangements shall be seen in April this year, in which we hope that concessions shall be made to those who need them the most. With a reduction in the parking fees we hope this will greatly reduce the strain on the residents in the surrounding area of the hospital, as well as the financial strain on the majority of the public who struggle to afford them.I thank Jane Brennan and Mike Gennery for taking the time to listen to all the areas of concern regarding the issue of the parking arrangements and making Matt and I feel very welcome. I would also like to thank Matt for taking the time to accompany me on this mission (me and my big mouth!) and for his input and advice. Thank you all on the forum for your opinions good and bad and fingers crossed we can see an overall better change to this problem.All the bestIna.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7081d

Thanks Deb..Shivon had a op at 1030 this Morning at GOSH but is doing Fine!!Did you Get Paul fishers £10 I sent u yesterday??

Simon Anderson ● 7081d

GOOD LUCK INA AND MATT I would like to thank you on my behalf as i cant be there with you but your in my thoughts on this matter. Lets hope you are able to get some joy with the meeting. I think that the permit it a very good idea for visiting and for the staff and the drop off zone extended to half hour is much better where can you get anywhere in 10mins.Simon i hope shivon will be well quick thinking of you.Mary i hope your brother recovers soon as well.All the bestDebbie xxxxx

Debbie Dewar ● 7081d

Thanks for your suggestions they are really helpful,please keep them coming.Mary if there is anything else you can think of to do with the parking let me know.

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

I totally agree with that last Statement.Also why shouldnt Nurses use there Cars if it means they get to Work on Time?Whatever way you look at it Staff should get either of the Following:1. A free Travel pass (if having to Travel by Bus)2. A Staff Car Park Permit.The other you have to think about is if they finish late some Bus Service dont run threw the Night, the 267 doesnt go past west Midd during the night you have to walk to Bush Corner which is Very dangerous for a Young Nurse to do so..

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

also the nurses start either really early in the morning or finish really late at night. if they didnt bring their car theres very little public transport at that early in the morning that reliable and late of night its not safe for them.

M Dowling ● 7083d

yes i hope so 2...wink wink

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

Thank you Simon. you have a point about the smoking, so lets hope that people take a leaf out of your book and leave the hospital premises to smoke.

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

InaU hit it on the Nail!!

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

no because they get paid too little and out of their wages have to fork out for their public transport as well as the long hours.

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

Maybe that's why there is a shortage!Because the majority of healthcare staff make use of public transport? I don't think so.

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

InaIf I was a smoker yes I would leave the Premesis to have a Smoke if the Hospital Has made a rule then we should stick to it as it was put there For a reason.why should none smokers have to put up with Smokers in a area they shouldnt be?Also its a Health risk to sick Patients.These Rules were put there for a reason and if people who smoke ignor them well thats wrong and the Hospital need to act on it!

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

Maybe that's why there is a shortage!

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

simon,if you were a smoker and were at the hospital for the whole day would you leave the premises to have a cigarette. besides if fines were issued then someone would have to be employed to issue them,which kind of defeats the object of raising money.

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

here here Ina...I totally agree with ya!

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

Buses would of been no use to me when my alfie was in Scbu because i would quickly take my son to school then make my way to the hospital to see alfie and spend the day with him until i had to pick my son up from school again.my only bus option was the 267 and i would rather have spent the 45 minutes with my baby that was in an incubator that spend that time waiting for a bus.I was too busy worrying whether by the time i returned to the hospital would my baby still be alive!

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

“The idea of commuting is fine if you have a higher paid office job,but the staff are saving peoples lives”Ima – Healthcare staff are committed to saving lives, otherwise they wouldn’t work within the sector. As for the above, how do you think that healthcare staff working in central London get into and out of work? Do you honestly think that the greater majority of these staff drive into work and pay for on-site or street parking or that they pay for the congestion charge? I think that if you were to look into the issue a little more that you would find that the majority of healthcare staff working in central London use public transport.

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

Got a Idea...The Hospital spent Money on Signs to say its a No Smoking Hospital but People still smoke on the Premesis.yesterday I went up to see my Girl there was at least 7 people smoking why dont the Hospital start To do on the Spot Fines top Those Caught they would get Thousands a day, whats the Point in laying down a Condtion and not stick top it..As to the 267 you are lucky you dont have to wait long most of us wait longer for the Bus.Also some Nurses live a little far away so would have to get more than 1 bus..I still think they should get a staff pass.They have a Car Pk at the Top its always empty why doesnt the hospital let the Staff use it for Free?

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

I have to wait anything from a minute to up to 45 minutes for a 267. Usually 20 minutes on average, not that I am alone in this. The 267 is the only bus in this area that I can make use of because it runs to and from my commuting points, That is just one bus though; there are others, which serve West Middlesex Hospital or run near to West Middlesex Hospital.

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

Yes but How long do you ave to wait?The Bus Fares have now Risen again most people cant afford to pay these sorts of Prices when on Low income

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

Totally agree with that!Maybe if a certain Mp gives up her 2nd Flat might have a bit more money to give to the Nurses.

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

It's right what you say Simon that the staff work their socks off for little pay.The idea of commuting is fine if you have a higher paid office job,but the staff are saving peoples lives, if they worked 5 days per week they are paying between £20-£60 per month out of their wages.I am afraid that i can only fight one battle at a time,as well as coping with a busy life.I am just "little ole me!"with regard to the a day charge i think it's a good idea to copy Barnet hospital that has £3 per 24 hours like colin suggested which is good for patients that have to return 4 times a day for treatment.For relatives that are visiting patients that are in for a stay i think they should be given a pass, because if a patient was admitted for a stay of lets say 10 days then that would add up to £50 if the charge were £5 per day.this would benefit people like you simon and Mary Dowling. These patients need the support of their relatives and will also ease the work load of the staff.I think the 10 minute drop off zone should be extended to 30 minutes with the Gas Guzzeler having more of a simpathetic attitude.any more idea's ,anything i have forgotten?

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

Who charges too much? My understanding is that charges are set by TFL. I think that bus fares are pretty much consistent across the board under TFL. Yes, I wait for the 267 bus at least twice a day, 5 or more days a week.

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

Pay NHS staff more and they wouldn’t need a free bus pass. Nothing is free, we all pay for it somewhere down the line. No, I never stated that “Nurses get paid Enough to save peoples Lives”. What I did was to ask “…. any idea how staff could be paid more? I’d suggest that the most effective way of doing this would be for the government to reduce expenditure on the benefits system and increase spending on the NHS which would allow for staff to be better paid.

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

"I think doctors are right to deny treatment to the heavy smoker/drinker and the obese.  People should take responsibility for their own health"I don't agree with your line of thought. These people contribute financially to the NHS through direct and indirect taxation. Are you suggesting that these people should pay towards the NHS but not be entitled to treatment?

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

Bus??  Firstly they charge to Much and 2ndly have you waited for a 267?

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

It’s called commuting. Millions of people do it, week in and week out. As for the ‘rubbish pay’, any idea how staff could be paid more?Either way they have to pay maybe a Free bus Pass.So what you a\re saying is Nurses get paid Enough to save peoples Lives?My 10yr old Daughter is Very ill at the Moment in West Middx Hospital and as to Go for a Operation and these nurses are doing a Great job, Yesterday the Ward was very short with only 2 nurses to look after a Huge ward with ick Children and they worked there socks off the money the get paid is a Joke, and as for paying parking charges its just another way for Managment to get there Money back from them its Disgusting.These Nurses work Long Hours and for Little pay they deserve more!

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

"I can also see that you would have no other alternative with regard to visiting your brother"Ever considered using a bus?

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

"Staff shouldn't have to pay to goto work to save peoples lives when they get rubbish pay as it is"It’s called commuting. Millions of people do it, week in and week out. As for the ‘rubbish pay’, any idea how staff could be paid more?

Gareth Evans ● 7083d

1 idea would be if you have a relative in Hospital and you have to be with them (like with a child etc) then parking should be free or a set charge 4 the day say a fiver.Also they could make parking Half price to those on Benefits or Low income!!

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

I cant really give you my views as I don't drive what I could say is that Staff shouldn't have to pay to goto work to save peoples lives when they get rubbish pay as it is.

Simon Anderson ● 7083d

Thank you simon,but we do need everyone's opinions on how much they wouldn't mind paying and what concessions there should be.please help with your views.

Ina Chureetur ● 7083d

Well Done Ina..

Simon Anderson ● 7084d

Dear all, I am please to announce that the NHS Trust and Ecovertfm have invited Matt and myself to attend a meeting with them regarding the cost of the hospital parking.This will take place at some stage next week.We would be grateful if you would tell us your views on how much you think the parking should be priced at, and what concessions you think that there should be, e.g. passes for relatives whom are visiting long term patients etc.with your support and your opinions lets hope that we can make a difference.Thank youIna.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7084d

Thanks Ina...These r the Costs to Park at West Middx..£1.20-1Hr£2 - 1-2hrs£2.80 2-3hrs£3.75 3-4hrs£5.20 4-5hrs£36.20 5-8hrs£11.65 In excess of 8hrs£13.90 Per 24hrs£1.20 overnight stay 8pm-6amWheel Clamp Release £40How much to park your viechle whilst your relative is Dying??

Simon Anderson ● 7084d

keep your chin up simon, Shivon is so brave,courageous and strong.She's already fought so hard.Think positive, the tests that she had last week were good.Shivon will keep fighting back.will be thinking of you all.speak to you soon.

Ina Chureetur ● 7085d

Thanks JeanI just got home from Hospital she has been very unwell tonight He temp shot right up so they have placed her on another Antibiotic (thats 3 now) they will monitor her for next 24hr before they decide to take out her Hickman Line (A Op) we just got to hope the Meds kill the Infection and she doesn't need to go threw this!She has a VERY bad Chesty Cough and gets a lot of Pain in Her Chest. But she is VERY strong and Brave and is a Total Fighter and is My little "HERO"I will keep you updated

Simon Anderson ● 7085d

Simon  I will be praying for you and Shivon  and hope she is better soon

Jean Gilmore ● 7085d

oh no,poor thing she must be miserable feeling so ill.I hope they don't have to take her Hickman line out and that she gets better very soon.I will keep thinking of her and wishing that she has a quick recovery.give her lots more kisses from me.I will try to visit soon.will call you later.Ina.xxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7085d

Just had a Call Shivon wont be coming out for 2wks now!1They told us yesterday she could go home during the day and come back to the Hospital at Night but her Temp has gone up again so they need to monitor it they might have to take her Hickman line out clean her insides and put a new 1 in to her so another Operation!She is also Netropenic which means her Netrofills (the White cells in your Body that fight infections) are very low meaning she can catch infections easier than You or I..I will keep you all informed on her progress!

Simon Anderson ● 7085d

Hi simon, How is shivon? how is she feeling today? thank you so very much for finding that out for me.It's naughty but not as high as the charges that the patients have to pay. thank you, hope shivon gets better soon, won't stop thinking of her.xxxxx

Ina Chureetur ● 7086d

Hi everyone AGAIN!!I just visited Shivon tonight and I spoke to a Nurse on Behalf of Ina and she told me That the Staff have to pay Car Parking Charges but they didn't used to, they are put in a Banding and they get scratch cards and the Money gets taken out there wages depending on what Band they are in the charge is Between £1 and £3 a Day.I feel this is terrible why should the Staff who do a fantastic job and get paid squidlies be charged to park to go into work!!

Simon Anderson ● 7086d

I'm sorry but I don't understand why you would be driven to stare at someone for parking in a disabled bay in the first place, especially as you say, that you realise that individuals are granted blue badges for reasons other than being unable to walk.

Gareth Evans ● 7086d

Just Got Home from West Middx Hospital (Shivon in again) The Nurses told me they were furious that they have to pay Car Parking Charges aswell!!I also found out if you a Disabled Car Pass you don't have to Pay (accd to 1 Mum)

Simon Anderson ● 7087d

Nice of you Simon, and Ina to offer sympathy, it was some time ago now. He was 90 and looked peaceful. The Hospital Staff were really terrific and deeply sympathetic at the time.Yes Ina that charge is quite reasonable, especially when you look at the 'Which' report, and see what Swindon were charging for 24 hours.It also takes any worry out of what can sometimes be a stressful situation.

Colin Vaughan ● 7088d

My thoughts are with you at this terrible Time Colin

Simon Anderson ● 7088d

Thank you colin, i will try to get a copy of 'which' tomorrow. I am sorry about your father passing away and saddened by the reason to why you were unable to see him .It sounds like Barnet Hospital has improved and the fixed charge is very reasonable, at west mid you would spend at least that money on the parking just waiting at A&E.

Ina Chureetur ● 7088d

There is an interesting case to highlight all these problems with Hospital car parking on page 7 of this months 'Which'. The unfortunate gentleman concerned had racked up over £100 in charges, visiting his Father in Swindon. This involved a 200mile round trip from Dorset. He only recieved a concessionary permit the day before his Father died. He was lucky, the day my Father passed on, I wasted half an hour looking for a space, with the result that he had gone before I reached him. This was at Barnet General Hospital.Since then things have improved at Barnet. With the new Hospital having been built, a fixed charge of £3.00 is imposed which lasts 24hours. You can also return within that period if you keep your ticket without further charge, very useful if like me you have to attend for eye pressure tests over one day.

Colin Vaughan ● 7088d

virgin active has plenty of disabled bays - as long as those is us that can walk perfectly well dont use them.i do understand that you can have a disabled badge for other reasons than being unable to walk (my father has one). i also know the look af embarressment on someones face when i stare at them when they are parking in a disabled bay!

M Dowling ● 7090d

There's more to the Blue Badge Scheme than the ability to walk - http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_mobility/documents/divisionhomepage/030925.hcsp. Perhaps the gym needs more disabled parking bays - have you suggested this to them?

Gareth Evans ● 7091d

you are very welcome Paul, it is good to see what can be achieved when people work together. lets hope that it is contagious and spreads so that 2006 brings better things, and phil gets his christmas wish that working together includes the labour party with the community and other party's. well dreaming is free and miracles can happen so i'll keep my fingers crossed.

Ina Chureetur ● 7091d

Hmmm,very good point Cllr but the only brown letters that usually drop on my mat are tax bills.

Paul Fisher ● 7091d

"Thank you Ina,the ICSF recieved a nice brown envelope this morning from the West Middlesex Trust"PaulBearing in mind the present political climate in these parts, hadn't you better re-word that?  :oO

Phil Andrews ● 7091d

Thank you Ina,the ICSF recieved a nice brown envelope this morning from the West Middlesex Trust re parking fees.The power of the internet and locals working together eh?

Paul Fisher ● 7091d

InaI think Phil has mentioned all of them I cant think of any others if I do I will let you know.I think what you are trying to do is GREAT and you have mine and IVYTAG'S full support as I feel this is a VERY important issue you have raised and having a Child myself who has to have constant routine Visits to West Middx well you Know...so well Done Ina.

Simon Anderson ● 7092d

hi simon,Thank you ,i think they will contact you soon, i hope so. do you know of anymore residences associations that this issue may concern?

Ina Chureetur ● 7092d

I am Chair of IVYTAG so will let u no if I get any info from them

Simon Anderson ● 7092d

HI Matt and Phil, i have forwarded the names of the residents associations that you have provided that were not on the list,I'll let you know when I get a reply.Would you be able to let me know if Ecouvertfm do send the information to any of the associations that you have mentioned please.if there are any more that you wish to be included then tell me and i can forward them for you if you like.

Ina Chureetur ● 7092d

Indeed Matt. No offence was intended by leaving out the GPRA, whose omission from the consultation only serves to underline my point.

Phil Andrews ● 7092d

There do seem to be a number of omissions, inclusing the Association I'm part of (Griffin Park Residents). They don't seem to have approached any of the local media - including this website (they were asked for a rsponse to Ina's original comment a month ago). Hopefully, this discussion will encourage people to respond.

Matt Harmer ● 7092d

InaThey would appear to have picked up a list of residents' organsiations from the Civic Centre.  It is good that these people have been consulted but there are many more which have been left out.Some examples:Three Estates Resdients' Association (next door to WMUH!)Residents of Worton EstateWorple Avenue Residents' AssociationIvytagThe Community GroupIsleworth Community Safety ForumWoodlands Estate Residents' and Freeholders' AssociationNorthumberland Estate Residents' AssociationTo name just a few!Even MRAG, although its area of concern is the activities of Mogden SWT, would be a useful vehicle for passing on information through its contact list of several hundred local residents.In my view LBH needs to take the need for community consultation far more seriously.  The list which it has apparently provided to Ecovert is paltry.

Phil Andrews ● 7092d

Thanks simon.Hope you and the kids are well too.Ina

Ina Chureetur ● 7092d

It is great to see someone doing something about this well trying anyway if you ned help Ina let me Know.Hope you, Deb and all the Kids are ok.Mary..Hope your Brother gets well soon!!

Simon Anderson ● 7092d

This is the list of associations to which this paper has been sent:-Syon Park LtdRichard PailthorpeEstate OfficeSyon HouseSyon ParkBrentford TW8 8JGSarah EscottBrentford Waterside ForumNB Edinburgh CastleHam WharfThe HamBrentfordTW8 8EXThe Isleworth SocietyThe Old Isleworth Four Road Residents AssnRosemary CoomberMay Villa20 Byfield RoadIsleworth TW7 7AFMr R. MaryanEnfield Road Residents’ Grou[57 Enfield RoajdBrentfordMiddxTW8 9PAMrs J. WorboysIsleworth and Hounslow CharityClerk’s OfficeTolson LodgeNorth StreetIsleworthTW7 6BYMr C. RichardsChairmanThe Butts Society16 The ButtsBrentfordMiddxTW8 8BLMr J. StorrarAvenue Road Residents Group20 Avenue RoadBrentfordMiddxTW8 9NSMrs J. CatterallLionel Road Residents’ Assn39 Lionel RoadBrentfordMiddxMrs Sheila O’Reilly14 Thistleworth CloseOsterleyIsleworthMiddxTW7 4QQMr A. CliffordNorthumberland Estate Residents Assn59 Roxborough AvenueIsleworthMiddxTW7 5HQMr K. KnightSt. John’s Residents Assn24 Mill Plat AvenueIsleworthTW7 6RDMrs M. LardenLittle Warkworth Residents Assn4 Mill PlatIsleworthTW7 6DYMs V. SandersBrentford Community CouncilC/o Brentford Community Resource Centre281 High StreetBrent;fordTW8 ONEMrs M. Kirk8 St. Albans AvenueHanworthMiddxTW13 6RJBasil MannChairman147 Syon LaneIsleworthTW7 5PZSue RathboneB.C.C.MailboxBrent Community Residential CentreAlexandra HouseBrentfordTW8Peter DownesChairman31 Brantwood AvenueTW7 78EXMrs M. BrownSt. Johns Residents Association12 Granger RoadIsleworthMiddxTW12 6PQSundialMs Lynne Reeves14 Algar RoadIsleworthMiddlesexTW7 7AH

Ina Chureetur ● 7092d

curiousity got the better of me yesterday evening and I asked EcouvertFM alot of questions and pointed out the many problems that the high parking costs cause to the public.I have recieved an e-mail this morning saying that my qustions shall be answered next week when EcouvertFm and WMUH will issue a joint statement.

Ina Chureetur ● 7092d

it great that you have got a reply from them thank you for everything you are doing for the parking situation lets hope somethings gets done about reducing it and bringing back the passes would be greatMary sorry to hear about your brother sending my love hope he gets better soon all the bestDebbie x

Debbie Dewar ● 7093d

I tell you something funny that happened to me, i parked in a mother and child space at the supermarket one day. Nextto it was a disabled bay. A lady came over and started shouting at me and telling me off for parking in a disabled bay,i tried pointing out that it was a mother and child bay but she wouldn't have none of it until i made her look at the big sign just beneath the car. The lady's jaw just dropped and she didn't know what to say!have a chuckle and go to sleep. Goodnight.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

hi - i do agree about the badge holders -  but from what i am seeing its not the badge holder that always uses it - the majority of people i see at hospital and other places with them get out of their cars and walk better than i can!! its a major gripe of mine so believe me when i say i notice. its the same at the gym i use - perfectly able bodied women and men park in the couple of disable bays in front of the doors (then put their heads down because they know its wrong) and then 'proper' disabled people who have trouble walking far cant park there. rant over goodnight! lol

M Dowling ● 7093d

West Mid used to have passes and it would be a good idea to see them re-introduced for the labour ward,A&E patients and long term patients, definately. Parking in the residential area's really annoys the residents which is understandable,and I can also see that you would have no other alternative with regard to visiting your brother, on two occassions Debbie parked her car down them roads and on returning found it vandalised.charging Disabled badge holders kind of defeats the object that they aren't supposed to pay, and when they are attending the hospital it is more than likely that they are attending due to their disability.I hope you Brother gets well soonAll the best Ina

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

when you take a sick child to Great Ormond street you get a pass to leave in your car and thats right in central london.have you noticed just how much of the hospital is dedicated to parking. the two ends of car park are never used just the middle bit near the main extrance. maybe it should be less car park more hospital.my brother has been in west mid since september and theres no way i can afford to pay the parking fee five times a week. i now park in the private estate next door. theres an alley that leads straight into the car park. its not great for the residents but enables me to visit my brother when i want.i do agree about 'disbabled badge holders' should pay something for their parking. if you look at who actually uses the badges - most of them are able bodied people anyway.

M Dowling ● 7093d

Thanks for your support simon.much appreciated.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

I 2nd That

Simon Anderson ● 7093d

Yes it is disgraceful,but even if more reasonable charges were introduced like those at the Treaty Centre it would not be so hard hitting finacially.They did have a system before the hospital was rebuilt where passed were issued for maternity etc. it would be a good idea to re-introduce them.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

It is Totally disgusting that the Hospital have to charge People rushing there children in sick..I can understand a Charge for people visiting but when you have a child like Debbie's who is ill a lot of the Times and Debs has had to rush her in to be treated it is absolutely terrible she should be charged surely there should be a department at West middx that if you get a form signed by Hospital Staff that your Child is getting Treatment etc then the Car Pk Charge should get returned..

Simon Anderson ● 7093d

no problem, I have just E-mailed the company with yours and matts question.I hope that i recieve a response.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

Thanks Ina.  I'm just curious - residents on our estate have been lobbying, but nobody I know has received anything.  I hope that the usual suspects aren't up to their old tricks again as this is an issue which concernes the whole community - users, staff and neighbouring properties alike.Look forward to hearing from you on this.

Phil Andrews ● 7093d

No i don't, but i can ask them.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

Hi InaDo you know which residents' association the consultation papers have been circulated to?

Phil Andrews ● 7093d

Hi Matt, hope you had a good Christmas.i have forwarded to you the e-mails that were sent to me from EcouvrtFM. It is good that they replied and are very interested in public opinion.It is disappointing how ever that the high costs are being blamed on those with mobility problems and having a disabled Badge. Even though they are reviewing the situation it is of no assistance to those people like Debbie and I ,where Disabled Badges are not issued to children under the age of 2, and the fact that we do not know when we must go to hospital in an emergency with Tyzja and that the stay in hospital is usually between 4-7 days.I would not want to use a disabled Badge knowing it would increase the cost of the parking to others.This in turn has left me curious as to what the shopping centres do i.E. the Treaty Centre in Hounslow where the costs of parking are very reasonable.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

Interesting stuff (and I'm glad you got a reply; I've heard nothing from the Trust as yet). I'll try and get this onto the site.It looks as though Disabled badge holders are in the firing line. My thoughts, for what they're worth...It's right to consider the cost implications of running a secure car park that will keep spaces free for ambulances, deliveries etc.Having a Disabled badge isn't an indicator of wealth - it shows that mobility is limited, which may mean that public transport is less of an option (buses don't always stop right outside someone's front door).Parking charges do affect the decision on whether or not public transport is used.We still don't know how much the Trust makes from parking fees - I will write again to find out.

Matt Harmer ● 7093d

Hi all, I wrote a letter to EcouvertFm regarding the hospital parking Fees and was pleased that they replied.I am going to paste their reply and would like peoples opinion on it.Dear Ms Chureetur, Thank you for your e-mail dated 13th December 2005 reference car parking at West Middlesex University Hospital.  I attach, for your consideration,  a consultation paper that has now been distributed to all  interested parties and in particular the Residents Association.I hope this is sufficient information at this time but as  you can see the subject is of car parking at the hospital is under review. We would welcome further comments you may have.Kind Regards Ecovert FM Proposal to change parking arrangements at West Middlesex University Hospital NHS TrustThis consultation paper is part of the Trust’s ongoing review of car parking arrangements on the hospital premises.  It invites your comments and views on the proposals, which aim to ensure the arrangements are fair to all users whilst making appropriate use of public money.Basis for the review The Trust has developed a Travel Plan, which aims to facilitate effective access to the hospital site by patients, staff and visitors whilst endeavouring to minimise the impact of this travel on the environment.  The plan also aims to ensure continued investment in a range of travel options and, where necessary, investment in improved facilities including CCTV or better lighting for all users.  The plan has been in operation for 12 months and these proposals aim to develop the Plan further by ensuring that charges for parking are fair to all our users.It is important that we acknowledge that there is a cost to the NHS in providing car parking facilities.  The costs relate to ongoing maintenance, security and management of these facilities.  We also have to ensure dedicated emergency, essential user, staff and disabled spaces are effectively controlled and available when required. Unlike many London hospitals the Trust is fortunate to have ample public car parking which is closely located to the hospital building and includes dedicated disabled bays at suitable locations.    Currently, parking for disabled badge holders is free but the cost of this is met through increased parking charges for all other users, who in many cases are no more able to afford to pay for parking than disabled users.  Also, there is no provision for reduced parking charges for patients attending regularly for outpatient appointments or for carers/relatives of patients who are in hospital for long periods. Why do the current arrangements need to change? § The current charging scheme is inequitable as the general car parking charges are inflated to cover the cost of free disabled parking. § The Trust does not currently offer concessionary rates for patients attending frequently or relatives of long stay patients.  This is causing financial hardship to some patients and their families. § There is a potential cost of policing free parking for disabled users which could lead to further increases in charges for other users § The Trust cannot divert money away from clinical services to subsidise users or pay for the up  keep of car parks. § The Trust relies on parking income to subsidies the cost of our facilities. Although we cannot afford to jeopardise this income stream neither do we wish to abuse it through excessive parking charges.    Options  Three options are being considered: 1. Continued ample free parking for disabled badge holders and the introduction of concessionary rates for regular users.  This would lead to a further increase in car parking charges for general users, substantially above the rate of inflation. 2. Limited additional provision of free but time restricted (short stay) parking for disabled badge holders outside the main car parks with charges for disabled badge holders within the main car parks in line with general parking charges.  In addition the introduction of concessionary rates for frequent patients and relatives who regularly visit long stay patients (over 2 weeks).  This would lead to an inflationary increase only in charges. 3. Introduce charges for disabled badge holders in line with general parking charges and a concessionary rate for patients who have to attend the hospital on a frequent (i.e. daily outpatient treatment for a sustained period of time) and relatives who regularly visit long stay patients (over 2 weeks). Note: there is no legal requirement to provide free or reduced parking facilities for disabled badge holders. Comments on these proposals If you have any comments on the above proposals, please send them to Corporate Affairs, West Middlesex University Hospital NHS Trust, Twickenham Road, Isleworth, Middlesex, TW3 2HP or email to corporate.affairs@wmuh.nhs.uk.  Closing date for comments is 27th January 2006. Background on current charges and their implications The new hospital building was opened in 2003.  In July 2004 the new car parks were opened and disabled badge holders were required to pay for their parking at general tariff rates.  In response to public concern, the Trust & the company that manages the car parks, Ecovert, agreed to continue with free disabled parking in the short term while the system was reviewed.  For the next 7 months this was at an additional cost to the hospital.In February 2005, an above inflation increase to the general parking charges was introduced to contribute to cost of free parking for disabled badge holders.  However, the true cost to the NHS of free disabled parking is still in excess of £24k per annum which is unsustainable in the long term. In addition to this, the Trust has become aware that a number of visitors have suffered financial hardship as a result of parking charges incurred by relatives regularly visiting long stay patients.  The Trust is keen to find a solution to alleviate the difficulties of this group of visitors.

Ina Chureetur ● 7093d

hi all,I went to the treaty centre in hounslow today, I forgot to take my camera so i couldn't take a photo of the prices displayed, but found that there was quite a difference comparing to the hospital. those of the treaty centre were very reasonable:-1-2 hours  £1.002-4 hours  £2.004-6 hours  £5.006 hours or more £10    keeping in mind that most people wouldn't shop for more than 4 hours unless you are my mother!!! ha!ha!ha!, i would think the higher charges would be to prevent people that are using the parking for work purposes.I also discovered that there are 3 different names involved with the parking at the hospital, one was ecovertFM, then there is another name on the ticket as you enter the car park and another after you have paid.

Ina Chureetur ● 7117d

Ecovert FMWe provide total facilities management services through direct service delivery from a team of over 1200 staff to a range of private and public sector clients in the UK. Ecovert FM is a subsidiary of ETDE which in turn is part of Bouygues, one of the largest construction and services groups in the world. Active in over 80 countries the annual turnover is £15 billion with 113,300 employees worldwide. The Bouygues Group's activities include property development, building, roads and civil works, utilities and facilities management, media and telecommunications.Ecovert FM has formed a successful partnership within the PFI market place with Bouygues UK, its sister construction company. Together, they offer a comprehensive and fully integrated design, build, finance and total FM package to clients in the healthcare, education and central government sectors.Our website is currently being redeveloped. Please visit again soon. If you would like any further information, please contact us at:Elizabeth House39 York RoadLondon SE1 7NQtel: 020 7401 0020fax: 020 7401 0030Email: info@ecovertfm.co.ukOr visit: www.bouygues.fr - www.bouygues-uk.com

Ina Chureetur ● 7121d

thanks for the photo's jim they are alot of help. these prices are still very high.I will try to get the prices of the car park of the treaty centre in hounslow so we can compare them.On the 1st day to the hospital Debbie spends at least 8hrs before she is able to take her car home so that is at least £11.65.she always worries that she doesn't have enough money to pay the parking when she has rushed out in an emergency. If i make a couple of trips to the hospital in that day onced to take mum so that Debbie can come home to see her other children, and another to take debbie back to the hospital and pick up mum we are looking at another £2.40 at least .It takes longer than 10 minute to get up to and back from the starlight ward.it's quite a complicated way of doing things but a cab would be far more costly as well as there being an hours wait for them on friday & saturday nights. our time is limited so waiting for public transport when we are going back and forth is time consuming and very cold at this time of year.

Ina Chureetur ● 7121d

Jim - I was told that there is a reduced fee or season ticket available but that is isn't widely advertised?  Aren't tarrifs such as the parking costs supposed by law to be displayed openly?  If this is the case ... on your evidence, it appears it is not advertised at all!

Sarah Felstead ● 7122d

Nice to see you popping over from Ealing, Gerry.  Maybe you could clarify some of your comments left hanging in the air?

Sarah Felstead ● 7122d

This is the information about Parking charges:In the area of the Accident and Emergency Reception..there is this Notice:Nurses are able to buy a Permit for reduce price parking..but the Car Park Office wouldn't tell me what the cost is.The French Company Ecovert FM (Facilities Management) look after the car parks, catering and cleaning..on behalf of the  Hospital Trust and Ecovert the joint management of the site..or so I understand.

Jim Lawes ● 7122d

C'mon guys, stop ganging up on Jessamy. I agree with most of your points re the vexed issue of parking at hospitals and some of Jessamy's statements make sense and are quite true and realistic. We are all entitled to our own opinions, whether we agree or not and this ain't the place to get too personal. Give it a break guys - the parking problems are too serious to attack each other about our chosen lifestyles. Have your say by all means, but don't attack for the sake of scoring points. There's room for all shades of genuinely held beliefs.  ;-)

Gerry Tan ● 7122d

Jessamy it’s not about jealousy but about the way you have been hypocritical. In one statement you have said that the NHS should not treat the obese, smoking and drinking related diseases but on the other hand there you are underweight for your height, starving yourself because the camera adds 6-8 kilo’s to bodyweight. So when you are past your sell by date and can no longer model, you’ll find your internal organs are failing because the years of under nourishment and if you cannot afford BUPA, should the NHS pay for you? Then you talk about those that are starving in Sudan because they have no food, and then there are people that starve themselves so their children can eat but you starve yourself for the sake of vanity.IF the people did as you have suggested, not have children unless they were able to afford to pay for them, then entire nations such as Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan etc.etc would be entirely wiped out.This is my point.

Ina Chureetur ● 7122d

I found out today that there is staff parking at the back of the hospital but i don't know whether they have to pay like at the parking area for patients.

Ina Chureetur ● 7122d

Jealousy! You must be even madder than you sound.

Caroline Riddell ● 7122d

Oh dear, a real bunch of ladies,  your jealousy is palpable - such a bad emotion!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7122d

Jessamy, Oh dear, maybe it's time to grow up? Come back when you can have a mature discussion on an issue which affects local people on, what is after all, um... a forum for local people. If you can't cope with people's individual way of writing (not, I hasten to add, that I have ever thought any of Sarah's posts weird in the slightest) then maybe don't use a forum, where there are no rules on people's grammar, spelling, syntax etc? Just a suggestion!

Caroline Riddell ● 7122d

Good for you Sarah

Jean Gilmore ● 7122d

Jessamy,Personally I don't think you have the slightest clue about raising money for  sick children or any experience with poverty.As for fundraising because you worked on a model shoot (in which i dare say you got paid)for an organisation that was generous enough to donate funds to the poor children of sudan,I hardly think that qualifies you.poverty exists all over the world,to discriminate by saying 1 person dying in America due to starvation is not as bad as a person dying in somalia is ridiculous.we all know what you would do in cases of emergencies with a sick child(wait for public transport) and on the other threads of this topic you complain about immigrants most of which come from poverty and war torn countries.

Ina Chureetur ● 7122d

Jessie - sod off.Sarah

Sarah Felstead ● 7122d

Caroline,I take issue with your comment that I levelled personal criticism.  I do try not to get personal in these debates, but I do occasionally retaliate when provoked.  As far as I can see I retaliated only to Sarah Feldead’s rather weird post.  If you read others responses to some of her posts on different threads you will see I am not alone in having difficulty understanding what she means.  I did not initiate it and I admit it was rather childish of me to retaliate.  I still have a bit of maturing to do yet before I can resist such provocation.  However, I will try not to retaliate to personal abuse in future.I think it might be a plan to wait until Matt posts the information he receives from the hospital about their parking policies.  Until then, probably best leave it at that, as having worked on a charity fundraiser in the Sudan where there is genuine poverty with children literally skin covered skeletons, discussing parking fees in the same breath as poverty seems obscene.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7122d

we'll put a pot beside the parking machine saying help debbie save on parking fees fund!ha!ha!ha!only joking.

Ina Chureetur ● 7122d

hi ina that would be perfect for me if only im not that lucky Debbie

Debbie Dewar ● 7123d

I don't quite understand the blanket comment. what i was refering to is that before there were spaces for the staff to park and people attending the labour ward in the maternity unit were given passes.unfortunately it would be too expensive to provide parking for all the staff,then that would bring additional problems with it. I do feel sorry for them as they spend most of their time caring for the patients ,they do not as i have heard, get extra wages to compensate for what they would spend on the parking fees.Maybe they should bring back these sort of passes for A&E patients,the labour ward and other situation such as these.Debbie paying parking fees:-The other option is that Debbie moves into a house across the road from the hospital and that solves her problem with the parking fees! ha!ha!ha! only joking.

Ina Chureetur ● 7123d

Ina, I don't really know about a blanket 'you can have a car parking space for all the staff' - is this what you mean?

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

you are very right caroline on everything you have said, there are many people that live very healthy lives that suffer from serious illnesses.the cost of parking should be more reasonable, enough to maintain the parking facilities without putting a huge dent in the pocket.those attending A&E, the labour ward and other similar situations should be given a pass.for the staff there should also be facilities provided.

Ina Chureetur ● 7123d

Oh Jessamy I wish I lived in your world. 2 months ago I lost one of my closest friends to a very aggressive cancer- she was 36, hardly drank, had never smoked and was slim and healthy. She died only 6 weeks after her diagnosis. I wish she was the exception, but the truth is I could name a further dozen accquaintances of mine who have either got cancer or have suffered it and been treated- all are aged below 37. None of them are heavy drinkers, overweight, exercise-shy or smokers.I sincerely hope that you remain in good health and can afford to be so smug about things, but after my experiences I wouldn't put money on it. Who knows when we might need to attend hospital ourselves? In my line of work I have managed car parks as part of the facilities management of a building- that's why I felt a need to point out that this costs money and it's fair that users pay. I have had bad experiences with people who did not feel they should have to pay as they needed to drive to work due to no train availability/sick mother/the school run- delete as applicable. However, I object to anyone making money from a captive audience, as appears to be the case with Debbie and Ina's expensive charges. Bernadette's suggestion sounds the most sensible to me- a simple nominal charge to cover maintenance.Again, I wish I lived in your world (including the Manolos) but Ina has raised a very valid discussion here which needs sensible debate not personal criticisms thrown at anyone who disagrees with you.

Caroline Riddell ● 7123d

You are right Jean about people travelling in to the London Hospitals where often they have to negotiate the congestion charge too - look at what they did to Harefield!  We had to visit there before they closed it down to sell the land and I am sure we didn't pay car parking charges.  A large amount of public money was raised to build bits on to that hospital - remember the fund raising for the Eric Morecombe wing? - I wonder what happened to that when the land was sold for development.  We have recently had to organise a taxi to take M-I-L to see her hubby in back in hospital.  Their local hospital charges £2 if you are over 10 minutes.  Negotiating the corridors and lifts take almost that, one way - and she is pretty sprightly on her pins.  So there was an extra £4 a day in parking charges on top of the taxi fare for the taxi driver to take her up to the ward and then collect her from there each day.  We couldn't run the risk of losing her within the hospital (endless corridors and multiple floors = lost elderly lady = search parties!) so had to make these arrangements.

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

be careful David i think you maybe attracting the wrong sort of fan club.I do agree with jessamy that people should take care of themselves but then again what would be the fun in that? live but don't enjoy!how do you explain the sickness of a child? those that have had cancer but never smoked?who and what do you blame then?it's fine saying don't overeat but what about those that don't eat enough and are anorexic? Those that make themselves sick so not to gain weight?

Ina Chureetur ● 7123d

David, HeHe! If I thought you meant it, I might take you up on it - it could keep me in shoes! I do so like my Manolos!Seriously though, if people lead a healthy life, don't smoke, don't drink to excess, don't overeat and eat healthy food, bar accidents they can reasonably expect not to get seriously ill.  Look at the longevity of the Japanese.  I'm not saying the world makes sense all of the time, but a lot of illnesses are preventable. There are medical stats to back this up - look in the Lancet.I've never been called a sheep before, but that's ok - they are sweet and soft and very loveable. A bit like me!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

Okay Jessamy, if “you’ve got it”; you win.  If I sell up everything I could probably scrape together somewhere between £3-4 million.  It’s all yours.All you have to do is explain to me again this concept of choice.  Tell me how I can choose not to get ill in any way for say another 20 years and I’ll post you a cheque now.Jessamy, governments whether local, national, left, right – whatever – love “sheep” like you who think that they can intellectualise everything and make the world make sense ALL of the time.  I’m sorry, it doesn’t work that way. 

David Johnson ● 7123d

Sarah if you are wierd  as Jessamy says  I am the same. I dont even see this as  a local issue as I live "South of the River"  and have the same trouble at our local hospital. I see money being wasted in other ways and then  sick people are charged  for parking. Some of those people have come from Sussex Surrey  and wide areas of london  to Tooting, not an easy place to get to by rail

Jean Gilmore ● 7123d

Oh, goody - thats all right then, so long as I agree with you.  Can we leave it now - - - - ?

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

Sarah, LOL! You are funny! I feel like Alice at the Mad Hatter's tea party!  Do enjoy your "real life" while I continue to enjoy my unreal one!  In your final mail you are actually agreeing with everything I said at the beginning!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

"I've asked one of the Board members at West Mid to come up with some statistics on car park costs, revenues and where the money goes, and I'll report back here when I get it."Thanks Matt, will be very interesting to see how much profit they are making.

Lynn Clark ● 7123d

I agree with Bernadette.I also think that there should be some understanding of why people want to use a car park and what is needed to allow us easy access.  The car park machines print entrance and exit times on the tickets so can supply the times people spend at the hospital, which is another important factor in looking at the whole car parking issue.Fearful at being clamped in the drop off/pick up zone when picking up my elderly neighbour from having numerous tests, I took my husband to get her from the unit the tests had been run at whilst I sat in the driver’s seat.  Within a couple of minutes a man pulled up in what looked like a huge gas-guzzling-open-backed-truck and started waving at me.  He was trying to get me to move on - and started to argue over the time I had been parked.  He stopped short of calling me a liar when I said he should go and check his CCTV tape of my arrival and that I genuinely was waiting for a pick up.  I asked about the other cars parked on the front none of which had a driver inside - and was told they were taxi's.  Wasn't I, in effect a taxi?  My neighbour could have used hospital transport for both her journeys – but it was far more sensible for her to have a lift from somebody she knew.He did suggest I go into the car park and pay, which I said I wasn't going to do.  The next time this happened I rang ahead to say I was coming but would be on my own and was told to leave a note on the dash board and it would be okay.  My neighbour could not have walked without severe discomfort to the car park and would only need a wheel chair if she was required to be wheeled to the entrance at a trot to satisfy Gas Guzzlers stop watch.  This may be a strange way of writing this, but it demonstrates the fear of being clamped which pervades the whole visit at a time when the last thing on your mind should be car parking and fees and fines.I agree that the car parking should fund the ongoing maintenance of the car park – and it may be that when Matt gets his figures that the fees are so high, because of high maintenance charges – in which case gas guzzler could walk as he wanted my neighbour to do.  It was completely absurd that he was driving around the front area of the hospital and that there are so many car park attendants employed for such a small car park.On a previous discussion I suggested that there should be a half hour charge to allow for drop offs and pick ups which is a small amount and encourages people to leave the car park quickly, and not hang around after doing just that.As far as people staying with a relative, there should be a way of contacting the parking office from a ward and getting them to clear a car for a long term stay without the relative having to leave the side of the person they are supporting and without the dreadful charges Ina and Debbie have experienced.  I find it absurd that a temporary disability badge cannot be issued to people having long term care or needs.  It isn’t as if it would be difficult to gain a medical opinion!

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

Exactly - and you are demonstrating remarkable self awareness, at long last.  Now try listening to what people with real lives are saying to you.

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

I don't think I have ever read such tripe!  I don't disagree with the principle of only having children when you can afford them but who knows what the future will bring.  No one plans to have children with special needs and I'm not sure you can budget for them in advance.  In these days of rampant divorce how many couples could afford children when they had them only to discover they couldn't afford them once one partner or the other decides to divorce?  There are many reasons why children can become a financial burden, people lose jobs, partners, etc.  Life can throw all sorts of obstacles at people and whilst you may be full of yourself today you may have a rude awakening tomorrow.What a stupid statement it is also to say anyone who can afford a car can afford the parking.  Many people run cars for many different reasons and frequently can ill afford the running costs.  It is not everyone that can afford a car for a status symbol or for pure luxury.In my humble un-PC opinion, hospital parking charges should be nominal not cash cows for whoever it is that is reaping the benefit.  Ealing hospital is crawling with parking attendants who, as I said in an earlier posting, wanted to ticket my newphew whilst he was trying to deliver his mother into A&E whilst she was in the throws of a heart attack.  He had already driven round the car park several times looking for a space but in the end had no choice but to drive her to the door.  The behaviour of the warden was totally unreasonable in the circumstances.  Just to upset even more people with my views, I personally believe that if the National Health were to treat only those that had contributed to it, we would all be a lot better off and car parking would still be free. When the NHS was created in 1948/9 we did not have a country full of people from everywhere on the planet and most people worked.  It was also a generation of people who did not rush to the doctor every time they sneezed.  The NHS was a wonderful invention that has over time become abused by people who think a trip to the doctor or to A & E is almost a social event and many of those people have never contributed anything at all to the NHS.  I consider myself fortunate to be, as far as I know, healthy but I do spend a lot of time at the dentist and whenever I am there all I ever hear is the receptionist asking the patient "do you pay for your treatment" and all I ever hear in an assortment of accents is "No".  I almost believe I am the only patient they have that does pay.  I was born in Chiswick, I have worked so far for 39 years, raised 3 children single handed without state aid and I have to pay for everything but the country is full of people from somewhere else who do not.

Bernadette Paul ● 7123d

LOL!  Weird, seriously weird!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

David, in fact I have "got it". The bottom line is our lives are down to our choices, which we have the free will to do.  You are more or less implying the opposite. We can choose to bear children we can't afford or we can choose to work until we can afford them.  I will choose the latter course, and a I don't expect anyone to give me a free trip.  And I wouldn't want a penny of my earnings to go towards free parking at hospitals.  Anyone who can afford a car, and the petrol to go in it, can afford the parking.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

it would be brillant to see where the money goes and a fantastic idea by David for charging an extra £1000 per year to supermodels or as some put it "the underfed giraffes".

Ina Chureetur ● 7123d

"Matt - that is a great idea - maybe if it shows that the parking charges are going, at least in part, towards the overall costs of the hospital, then people would not mind paying, as they would be directly benefiting.  Obviously some of the charges must go towards staffing and maintaining the car parking facility."Dear Jessamy, you still haven't got it!  There are at least two different aspects to the thread.As a budding Supermodel, the actual cost of the car park does not affect you as it does some of the other people who have posted comments.  You, Sarah, Lynn, me – you want £x to park, no problem, here’s your £x.  Some people can’t just hand over the stealth tax that easily.But, consider; you, Sarah, Lynn, me etc. have (you pick – heart attack, labour, kitchen accident, stroke, COPD – whatever) we and are relatives don’t feel that looking in our pockets for £x is important at that time.There are lots of factor to consider in this thread; please think “outside the box” – we all know that there is no such thing as a free lunch and that someone pays somewhere at some time.  We’ve been there, bought the T-shirt etc.Here an idea that the gov. could try.  As Supermodels have said that they won’t get out of bed for less than £10k, let’s charge all photographic models an extra £1,000 per year “compassion tax” and in return make all car hospital parks free.

David Johnson ● 7123d

Jessy – so you intended to insult or take the mickey about me ‘being foreign’?  Mind if I decide to take it personally?I am not sure why it should upset you so – the way anyone writes on a forum or in real life has snob value if you are going to discount it just because your preconceived ideas show a person has no value if they cant read or write to degree level, or in the way you subjectively choose.  There are different styles of writing which can be applied to different situations, and a forum is open to any a person chooses.If your argument finds the subject of foreigners – then I am unsure what you mean by a foreigner.  If you wish to divert the argument to the thousands of holiday tourists who arrive here for care on the National Health and depart without paying then the only thing I can contribute to this is the Man who presented himself at A&E when we were there once.  He had a bullet in his leg which had been there for several months – whilst he travelled across the world to this Country to claim asylum (so the story was being told at the reception desk was going). We next saw him a few weeks later with the leg amputated.I imagine that your travel to hospital arrangements might be fulfilled as a number of these holiday tourists will probably not go out buy and Tax a car before travelling to the hospital, but instead dial 999.I can also contribute the story I read of the hundreds of women who present themselves to London hospitals in labour, with no links to this Country and apparently no way of funding their hospital care, so the NHS picks up the tab.Probably better if you want to divert onto these sorts of areas, Jessie, to start another thread rather than pinch Ina’s.  As Jean Caroline and Lynn have already said what a good debate it is and a touching local issue - even if it means you aren’t getting your own way.Have a nice day.

Sarah Felstead ● 7123d

Matt - that is a great idea - maybe if it shows that the parking charges are going, at least in part, towards the overall costs of the hospital, then people would not mind paying, as they would be directly benefiting.  Obviously some of the charges must go towards staffing and maintaining the car parking facility.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

hi all this debate has really upset a few people hasent it, i think it so wrong to be charged so much when you have anyone sick regardless of age but to charge so much is unfair.as some of you might know ive have to attended the hosp very often and when i have to stay for hours on end it really does cost so much which does upset me. i wouldnt mind paying a small fee but not the amount they charge its so unfair my car is much needed to get back and forth and yes i could get a mini cab there and back which would cost about £14 but then i have to pop home to sort the others out then  reaches again total £28 by mini cab i think not evey day and yes i could wait for an ambulance but again sometimes they cant get to me in time and by then my little girls mouth has gone blue and shes floppy and cant breath so i cant win with those ideas so the car is very important to me.Debbie

Debbie Dewar ● 7123d

I've asked one of the Board members at West Mid to come up with some statistics on car park costs, revenues and where the money goes, and I'll report back here when I get it.

Matt Harmer ● 7123d

It's a good job we live in a country where at least the treatment is 'free'. If we lived in somewhere like South Africa we'd all be paying for our treatment too, and I suspect parking charges would be the least of our worries!

Caroline Riddell ● 7123d

Lyn said "Anyway, none of this alters the fact that the sick & their family are being scandalously robbed under particulary appalling circumstances"Robbed by whom?

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

There was actually no intention to insult - I looked at some of your comments on other threads and because you use strange syntax and dashes in words that don't contain dashes, I assumed you were foreign.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7123d

Some interesting information from the report into hospital parking charges by Macmillan:One hidden cost of NHS treatment that has been steadily growing in recent years is parking charges. Hospitals have been allowed to charge for parking on hospital premises since they ceased to be Crown properties in the 1980s. Over the years more and more hospitals have introduced car park charges and those charges have steadily been ratcheted up – effectively a stealth tax. Whereas charges may have been initially introduced to manage hospital traffic and ration scarce parking spaces, today parking charges have become an important source of revenue for hospital trusts in England. One hospital trust source told the Health Service Journal that their hospital trust raised more than £250,000 a year from parking charges: ‘Charging is a big money-maker for trusts. In the last five or six years, trusts have cottoned on to the revenue potential of charging for car parks and turned it into a tax on health.’In a parliamentary written answer in 2002 then health minister David Lammy said that ‘The National Health Service trusts can charge for car parking in order to raise additional income to improve the health service using income generation powers’.There is no national regulation of hospital parking charges in any of the UK nations. In a parliamentary written answer given in April 2003, then health minister John Hutton clarified the policy in England, saying ‘It is a matter for individual hospitals to decide whether or not to charge for car parking and the cost of such charges in the light of local circumstances’.Department of Health guidance on parking charges published in 1996 advised hospitals to consider concessions but did not specify which groups of patients should be eligible.Very little research has been conducted into the extent of parking charges in UK hospitals. A 1992 survey by the Greater London Association of Community Health Councils found parking to be inadequate at 29 of the 46 hospitals surveyed and a wide range of parking prices.Patient Environment Action Team (PEAT) inspections have consistently found that, whilst dirty wards have hit the headlines, patients are more concerned about parking conveniently and finding their way about the hospital.A 2004 Action for Sick Children study found that parking charges at 67 UK hospital trusts surveyed ranged from 50p an hour to £2.50 an hour; that the average charge for a 24-hour stay was £8.50; and that only a third of the hospitals surveyed offered concessions to parents of sick children.Three-quarters of hospitals in the UK now charge for parking. Charges are most widespread in England, where 92% of hospitals charge.

Lynn Clark ● 7124d

I myself am lucky/grateful that i don't have to attend the hospital as often as Debbie does due to her sick child and consider myself extremely lucky with regard to my children's health, although lucky may not be the appropriate word.i do have experience with regard to the cancer and would rather see myself suffering from cancer than seeing any child ill.when you have to attend the hospital for whatever reason whether it be a child, an elderly person, a cancer patient or any patient whatsoever charging the sick because they are ill is wrong.

Ina Chureetur ● 7124d

I'm afraid I haven't got any bright ideas either. I want you to know that I would be happy to pay more tax to make life easier for cancer patients, parents of sick children etc. I wish it were that simple though!Kind regards, Caroline

Caroline Riddell ● 7124d

Travelling & parking costs issues are recognised by Macmillan healthcare experts.  I found this article on the Macmillan cancer relief website (www.macmillan.org.uk):‘Some days, I didn’t even know how I was going to findenough money to travel to hospital for my treatment’ – Mitzi BlennerhassetPeople affected by cancer across theUK suffer financially as a result oftravelling to and parking at hospital.The nature of cancer and the effectsof its treatment mean that publictransport isn’t always an option forpatients travelling to hospital. Somepatients need to travel long distanceson a regular basis for treatment, sothe costs quickly add up.The Hospital Travel Costs Schemecan help those on low incomes, butpatients and health professionalsaren’t always aware of its existence.Some hospitals run parkingdispensation schemes for cancerpatients, but patients are not alwaysaware of these either.On 29 June 2005, MacmillanCancer Relief will launch the secondstage of its Better Deal campaign,which will focus specifically on theissue of travel and parking costsfor cancer patients. As well as ahigh-profile media campaign, thepublic will be encouraged to helpus lobby the government andcampaign for change.Postholders will receive furtherinformation before the launch bypost. If you have any questions inthe meantime, please contact theCampaigns Team.Campaigns: Better DealFurther information:The Campaigns TeamTel: 020 7091 2050campaigns@macmillan.org.uk

Lynn Clark ● 7124d

"Lynn, regarding your comment about the amount you pay in NI contributions (which we all pay) – your lifetime contributions would probably not cover one hip replacement operation."Jessamy - according to the BBC website "...a hip replacment operation costs on average £4,660 on the NHS...".  In actual fact I have already paid this amount many times over & will continue to pay it many times over again before I eventually retire."I think doctors are right to deny treatment to the heavy smoker/drinker and the obese."If you really believe certain sectors of society should be discriminated against when ill, then the same should apply to those who intentionally starve themselves & are underweight for vanity's sake.  I'm sure we can find a reason to discriminate against everybody & deny treatment if we try.Anyway, none of this alters the fact that the sick & their family are being scandalously robbed under particulary appalling circumstances.

Lynn Clark ● 7124d

who do you think should pay???Definately Not the sick, the NHS hasn't got enough funds as it is, tax payers pay enough so it shouldn't be raised for that, although it will be raised for other reasons. so the funding would have to come from elsewhere, i'll let you know when & if i come up with an idea!Best regardsIna.

Ina Chureetur ● 7124d

On the contrary, I don't think we are missing Ina's point. And I don't think it's limited to sick children either- when someone of any age is seriously ill you want to get them to hospital as soon as possible.My point is this: who do you think should pay???

Caroline Riddell ● 7124d

Glad you didn't take it personally Sarah...sorry to have butted in but I felt it was rude :-)

Caroline Riddell ● 7124d

People seem to be missing  Ina's point. When your child is seriously ill you havent got time to wait for a taxi or an ambulance  which despite being an emergency  vehicle can very often take a long time

Jean Gilmore ● 7124d

Sorry, Caroline, but I didn't take it as personal.  In order to decide where s/he is coming from I was interested.  It doesn't detract from the point that Ina and Debbie were making nor does it affect my reply or train of thought.

Sarah Felstead ● 7124d

Ladies, please! What a shame that a healthy debate had to turn personal. Jessamy's insult to Sarah and Ina's insult to Jessamy were both uncalled for. Sorry to butt in on your thread but can we get back to the debate.Jessamy is right that someone has to pay for the parking- car parks cost money to manage and maintain and the NHS does not (and nor, I suspect, would we want it to) use money to pay for this. But it does seem unfair on people who cannot afford to use a taxi (probably your best bet of getting there in a hurry)...although wouldn't the taxi fare almost be cheaper than the parking?

Caroline Riddell ● 7124d

Hi sarah, you just have to laugh at Jessies views, they make no sense at all and if the planet was left for her to run there would be hardly any people left!!!best regards Ina.

Ina Chureetur ● 7124d

This is directed to Jessies comment to me earlier - it has gone in the wrong place again!

Sarah Felstead ● 7124d

Are you trying to be insulting?

Sarah Felstead ● 7124d

well when the life is draining out of the body of your child,you suggest taking public transport or waiting for an ambulance to become available and get to you! i would really feel sorry for your child. i think that needed to be said,i'm quite sure God will forgive me!

Ina Chureetur ● 7124d

Ina Chureeter said" I think it's best that you never have children"What a truly terrible thing to say to another person.  May your God forgive you.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7124d

Thank you sarah and jean for your support. for your information Jessamy the one talking gobblygook is you,when your child is turning blue and dying in your arms you don't have time to wait for either public transport or the time it takes for the ambulance to reach you.I think it's best that you never have children,God forbid the child ever get sick as it would die whilst you waited for public transport!!!!

Ina Chureetur ● 7124d

Jessamy should try living in the real world!

Jean Gilmore ● 7124d

Sarah Felsted - your post is complete gobbledegook - I can't decipher what point you are trying to make.  My sincere apologies if English is not your first language.If you are trying to say they have no choice, this was covered in an earlier post.  They can call an ambulance or use public transport if they don't wish to pay parking fees.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7124d

'Sadly, the poor children are the ones who suffer.'And as stated by Ina & Debbie either their children (and the Mothers) suffer because they have to be left whilst they leave the hospital grounds to find a suitable free parking space - or they suffer because the car parking fees eat into their housekeeping at an exorbitant rate!

Sarah Felstead ● 7124d

I am suggesting no such thing. I am just demonstating a level of irresponsibility. Sadly, the poor children are the ones who suffer.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7124d

"I sat in a waiting room at Ealing Hospital next to a woman with a severely asthmatic small child.  The mother kept taking the child out with her to the doorway so she could chain smoke!"The mother is obviously a complete moron, but are you suggesting that the child should be denied the treatment which he/she clearly needs?  In which way is this woman's stupidity the fault of her child?

Phil Andrews ● 7124d

Bernadette said “The NHS are denying certain treatments to "obese" patients.  Also there are certain doctors unwilling to treat smokers The elderly are also now getting a raw deal as there are too many of them and it's hardly worth treating them because the state would actually prefer them to die”I think doctors are right to deny treatment to the heavy smoker/drinker and the obese.  People should take responsibility for their own health.I would prefer the NHS spend the money on the elderly who often suffer in silence as they grew up in a culture of “not bothering the doctor”.  I sat in a waiting room at Ealing Hospital next to a woman with a severely asthmatic small child.  The mother kept taking the child out with her to the doorway so she could chain smoke!  I have very little sympathy for the “undeserving” poor.  Why do people keep having more children when they can’t afford to support one? It is a very irresponsible thing to do.  Contraception is freely available on the NHS!  I would not have children unless I was in a position to support them myself.Bernadette also said “As far as car parking is concerned, it used to be free but that was in the days when fewer people had cars”  The same principle applies to the NHS, dentists etc.  The NHS cannot cope with the huge demand. They are doing the best they can, but the UK is becoming like a third world country.  Lynn, regarding your comment about the amount you pay in NI contributions (which we all pay) – your lifetime contributions would probably not cover one hip replacement operation.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7124d

"...We were all young idealists once!"Young idealists are usually pro helping the sick, the poor & the undeserving at all costs!  (and in the case of having to go to hospital, be it as a patient, a carer/helper or a visitor, nobody is undeserving!).

Lynn Clark ● 7126d

with regards to David Johnson's comment, it doesn't seem likely that Jessamy Sanbello has to watch her pennies nor endure the endless queuing times at the hospitals! The Nhs is paid for by tax payers already ,and charging the sick most of whom are living in poverty, extortionate fees for parking is basically robbing the poor.We don't all have chauffeur driven cars when attending the hospital for which we get private treatment by bupa and our costs are covered by work which then claims it back in taxes from the inland revenue.

Ina Chureetur ● 7126d

Parks have gone to pot since park wardens were made redundant - bit like the nonsense saving of not having conductors on buses and guards on trains.  :-(

Sarah Felstead ● 7127d

;

Debbie Dewar ● 7127d

"Lynn, it seems pretty clear to me.  Sorry if you have trouble understanding.  Nothing is free, somebody has to pay, and I think it's fair that the people actually using a facility should pay.  Market forces and all that!"Lynn, try reading Jessamy's posts on W4 and all will become clear.  We were all young idealists once!

David Johnson ● 7127d

"Nothing is free, somebody has to pay..."I pay hundreds, yes hundreds of pounds a year into the NHS via my NI contributions.  In addition to that I pay thousands of pounds a year in tax from my earnings plus Council Tax & VAT.Therefore, I am already paying dearly for the NHS & have done so for the whole of my working life, as does my husband & as did my parents & grandparents.  You say land costs money - we have all paid for that land; you say that maintaining it costs money - we are paying to have it maintained & we are paying the wages of those who maintain it.  We are already paying for everything the NHS does.You are right, I have the choice to drive my car or not.  If I am having to get my child or a relative, such as my grandmother, to hospital quickly then I will drive to get them there as quickly and comfortably as possible.  I think it is responsible that I am using own transport/petrol (at my own expense) & not tying up an emergency service vehicle that somebody else may need & at great expense to the taxpayer.  On that basis alone, one would think that it would be made as easy as possible for people to drive to the hospital (without the added stress of finding the right change for parking & having to keep topping it up)."...and I think it's fair that the people actually using a facility should pay."As I have already said, nobody choses to be sick & nobody choses to have to attend hospital - it isn't a frivolous choice that we can avoid if we want to."Market forces and all that!"Enough said!

Lynn Clark ● 7127d

National Health Service - What National Health Service?  I am old enough to remember when there was a National Health Service and when everything was "free" i.e. dentist, prescriptions, parking!  What pray is free now?I lost a crown just before Christmas last this has caused me to attend my "National Health Dentist" on several occasions throughout this year.  I ended up losing the whole tooth in any event but not until it had cost me something like £300.  I have just spent another £145 on trying to save the tooth next to it and a total of £19.50 (3 separate prescriptions for antibiotics)The NHS are denying certain treatments to "obsese" patients.  Also there are certain doctors unwilling to treat smokers (event though the tax revenue from cigarettes is more per annum than the total spent on the NHS).  The elderly are also now getting a raw deal as there are too many of them and it's hardly worth treating them because the state would actually prefer them to die and thereby save their pensions.I actually find the whole situation confusing.  The nanny state which now governs us want us to stop eating, drinking, smoking, as all these things are bad for our health and may kill us which would suggest they want us to live forever.  At the same time 2 of the above raise huge amounts of revenue for the said state, where do they propose getting this revenue if we all do as we are told and stop smoking and drinking.  Then we are told we are all living too long (presumably in spite of eating, drinking and smoking) and in spite of the fact that we may have paid NI contributions for 50 years there is no money for a decent pension system.As far as car parking is concerned, it used to be free but that was in the days when fewer people had cars and before some bright spark recognised the potential for raking in even more revenue.

Bernadette Paul ● 7127d

i think it would be easier to abolish parking fees altogether rather give all the people disabled badges that attend hospital on an irregular basis.as for not giving badges for those that have sick children under 2 that is absolutely ridiculous!does anyone know who actually gets the money from the parking fees? i've been told by someone that it goes to the patients, then i've been told it goes to a private company?

Ina Chureetur ● 7128d

Just received an application for a disabled badge for  relative - to help with parking when he goes out and about.  The form says that Children under two years are not eligible and you cannot have one if the disability is intermittent.Why on earth not?  ... and why not have an 'intermittent' disability badge available?

Sarah Felstead ● 7128d

yes a car does not come cheap but when you have 3 children one with disabilities and another that is 2 months premature a car is a necessity.may i remind you that the parking fees at the hospital are making sick people pay, it's not Bond street where people are shopping in high fashion boutique's!!!!! A trip to the hospital A&E on a friday night is hardly Safe!!! i bet you are one of those people who make money out of the parking!!!! you can probably afford to go to private clinics!

Ina Chureetur ● 7128d

And Phil, I am not trying to be contentious, I just genuinely think people don't realise how much it costs to provide a parking facility with the very high cost of land and the cost of reasonable maintenance.  You only have to look at public areas, like parks etc. that are not maintained to see how quickly they deteriorate with flytipping, graffiti etc. I'd much rather pay a parking fee if it guaranteed a clean, safe place to park.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7128d

Phil, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think the NHS was responsible for parking.  Don't people exercise a choice about using their car?  Many people I know can't afford a car, much less parking.

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7128d

Yes i thought it was a National Health Service too! i'm so glad Jessamy isn't running the country!It's bad enough putting up with being sick but paying a fortune as well! May be Jessamy was offering to pay for our parking!! did you know that in Germany the hospital parking is Free, come to think of it, it's free in Italy as well, and France and Nigeria!!! Why not here?????

Ina Chureetur ● 7128d

And there was me thinking that we still operated a National Health Service.

Phil Andrews ● 7128d

Lynn, it seems pretty clear to me.  Sorry if you have trouble understanding.  Nothing is free, somebody has to pay, and I think it's fair that the people actually using a facility should pay.  Market forces and all that!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7128d

"...it shows the 10 minute drop off zone.  A picture paints a thousand words, as they say!"You can't drop your sick child off @ A&E & 10 mins isn't long enough to register your grandmother & get her seated after a fall (as if you're going to leave her by herself anyway), so again, I don't see your point.

Lynn Clark ● 7128d

I had to rush my wife Caroline into hospital when she went into labour with the twins.  Obviously I stayed with her, and was given a ticket by the staff at West Mid to display in my car which explained that we were bona fide users of the hospital and thus exempt from paying the car parking charge, which even then was considerable.This was at the old hospital.  Surely, if they really wanted to do so, it is not beyond the wit of man to devise a way in which such a facility might be reintroduced?

Phil Andrews ● 7128d

thats terrible jim and as a mother of 3 sick children who attend the west mid all the time i think its so unfair and like ina says beniffiting from the sick to make money. i have tried parking down 2 different roads by the hospital and my car was vanderlised both times one time they scratched the whole side of my door from one side to the other the scratch is so deep its going to cost about £150 or more to be resprayed and the second one the stole the car sign from the back of the car. Both of these happened while my baby was unable to breath so i was unable to leave so had to leave my car over night in these streets.The problem is when my baby has this problem it comes on so quick i dont have time to call a mini cab or even the ambulance because half the time they cant get to me quick enough so i have no choice but to drive and pay these unfair hospital fees. For one day alone i was stuck at the hospital for 16 hours unable to leave when i did the car park cost were about £15-£20 thats such a lot of money.I will be happy to see something done about this if they have to charge why does it have to be so much.Debbie

Debbie Dewar ● 7128d

Did anyone hear about a scam operating in that West Middx Car Park about a year ago ..when the "characters" running the facility were feeding the coin machines with duff 50p coins..which were being given as change from the machine?I heard the story last night from a very respectable gentleman who works at the Hospital... who had challenged the crooks working in the Car Park Office...after he had done.So its not just the charges..but possible scams too.

Jim Lawes ● 7129d

who should pay for the parking?No one should pay for the parking!!!! the parking facilities should be built by the same people who decided to build the hospital. profit should not be made from those that are sick. especially at the extortionate rate that is being currently charged. As for the drop off zone, during the day you would be lucky to find a space to park your car there. As for nurses having to pay is just as disgusting as robbing the sick.

Ina Chureetur ● 7129d

Thanks for that Jim, it shows the 10 minute drop off zone.  A picture paints a thousand words, as they say!

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7129d

Copy and paste this link..and see a map of the parking facilities.http://www.west-middlesex-hospital.nhs.uk/map.html

Jim Lawes ● 7129d

Regards to Lynns remarks about the phone. I was recently in hospital  and had a very old sick lady in the next bed.She had been moved from another ward. Before she had been moved her family had put ten pounds on her card but the card had been left behind  at the other bed. Despite many requests to the staff to collect this card nobody did it and the family lost the ten pounds

Jean Gilmore ● 7129d

At least the cost should be a reasonable one  not as I find with most hospitals  exorbitant

Jean Gilmore ● 7129d

"...my question was who do you think should pay for these services to be free?"I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't understand the question.  How is a cost incurred from providing parking?

Lynn Clark ● 7129d

Jean - I have very wide experience of hospitals both here and abroad, but I don't share such private family matters with complete strangers on a forum.  However, I can say that in an emergency the ambulance service has taken about 7 minutes.  In certain counties abroad, you have to take along your own bedding and you have to make arrangements for your own food.Also my experience re relatives visiting is similar to Bernadettes - hospitals necessarily have to take quite a lenient approach with visitors, and I am in favour of families being allowed to be together at bad times if that is in their culture.But back to the original point: my question was who do you think should pay for these services to be free? 

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7129d

Yes Phil you would think so wouldn't you but from my happily limited experience of hospital visiting I can tell you that they are not aware of limits of the number of visitors or perhaps they choose to ignore it.My sister suffered a heart attack in March this year and my nephew drove her to Ealing hospital where he had to practiaclly resort to violence towards a warden trying to ticket him as he dropped my sister off whilst she was in the throws of suffering the heart attack.  My sister was admitted and of course I visited her regularly.  Parking at Ealing hospital is not only an expensive business but also a nightmare to try and find a space.  From memory I am pretty sure each patient was allowed 2 visitors at a time as a maximum however there would frequently be large groups of people visiting "immigrants".  The nurses would try and get some to leave but often to no avail.My sister was then moved to Du Cane Road for another couple of weeks where the same problems with numbers of visitors occurred amongst the "immigrant" inmates.  If I was visiting my sister and someone else arrived I would go and wait outside or take my leave but it was always a problem trying to disperse the "immigrant" patient's visitors.Anyway back to car parking - it is a disgrace but it's revenue for someone?  Therefore as with most other cash cows that have been reared over the last decade or so, I fear that car parking fees in hospitals is here to stay.

Bernadette Paul ● 7129d

A few years ago now, but I remember when hospital car parks used to be free.Also, from what I understand, staff have to pay now too (certainly @ Hammersmith).  So if you're a nurse on a low wage, working all shifts it can be a cost versus safety issue.  (The nurses looking after me parked a long way from the hospital & walked the rest as they couldn't afford the parking [£10 a day I think they said it was]).My Nan fell over & we had to take her to West Mid A&E because we thought she'd broken a bone.  We spent the whole time trying to get change & topping up the parking tickets.  This was very stressful in an already stressful situation (as well as costly).Ultimately, the wait was over 3 hours, but of course you don't know how much you need to pay for parking when you arrive as you don't know how long you will be.  I'm sure that's true for most appointments (not just A&E visits), so if you're by yourself & have to top up the parking then you would worry about being called for your appointment while you're doing so.After all, nobody chooses to be sick or to have to go to hospital, so it seems improper to add further stress & costs under these circumstances.Also, back to the phones...what's that all about then?  Nobody is suggesting that hospitals provide a free phone service, but I cannot see any justification for daylight robbery!

Lynn Clark ● 7130d

Jessamy's argument doesn't really hold water from where I'm standing.  Why should commuters wish to park at West Middlesex Hospital, which is nowhere near any train station or bus terminus?And surely the "immigrants" who allegedly turn up in droves would be aware that there are limits on the number of visitors permitted to see any one patient at any one time?

Phil Andrews ● 7130d

Obviously Jessamy has never been very sick  and tried to get hospital transport, it is not that easy.Sometimes it is very necessary to take a car to the hospital for the sake of the patient and it can be very expensive

Jean Gilmore ● 7130d

Can I just gently ask who do you think should be responsible for providing these services for free - and who should actually pay for them.  If there is a large free car park it will be used by commuters and local businesses.  Also West London has a very large immigrant population who are very loving large united family units and if six or seven people are using their cars to visit a sick family member there would be parking problems, so I guess the only way to regulate and pay for the upkeep of the car park is by charging.  Also as the very sick can use the ambulance service would it not be wise for their families to use public transport to visit them?

Jessamy Sanbello ● 7130d

Hospital parking charges are disgusting.Are the telephone calls extortionate too?  I had to stay in Hammersmith Hosp & each bed has a phone next to it for which you have to buy a card to use.  I found the money ran out very quicky on a £5 card, so I gave my number to my family so they could call me instead.  When the telephone bills came through they had been charged an exorbitant cost per minute just to call me!  (Can't remember the actual amount, but I do remember it was really high).

Lynn Clark ● 7130d

unfortunately walking or taking public transport was not an option as Debbie's baby was admitted and we had to go back and forth. we didn't have any spare time to wait. I still think that the parking fee's should be abolished, & want to try to do something about it without it becoming a huge political battle, but i don't quite know how and what to do.

Ina Chureetur ● 7131d

You can't afford to be sick nowadays!!Chances are that the parking is under the control of a private company & not West Middlesex Hospital.I have had to attend quite a few appts there this year & it has cost me a fortune to park as sometimes I have been in the hospital for three hours or more.The last couple of times I have decided to get the bus & walk the rest of the journey which is obviously more healthy & cheaper.Unfortunately there are people out there who cannot do this so they have no other option.

Kevin Farnan ● 7131d

hi phil, i will have a read of that on the ICG site in a moment. have you got any suggestions how we can abolish parking fees at hospitals?thank youIna

Ina Chureetur ● 7133d

There is more on this on the ICG site at www.communitygroup.org.uk.  It is a major local problem which came about because Hounslow Council never enforced the Traffic Management Plan which was supposed to have been an integral part of the agreement when planning permission was given.  As usual the New Labour council made a lot of noise about protecting local residents and their quality of life, then walked away as soon as the fat-cat developers had obtained their planning approval.  Strange that.

Phil Andrews ● 7133d

it's very true, and the paying for parking is ridiculous. Debbie's car was vandalised down one of the roads.we have enquired about passes but the nurses had said that their are none. even for the hospital staff it is very frustrating. I have a friend that works there part time, she did resort to riding her bike into work.... until it was stolen there!! maybe i should draw up a petition. Do you think this would help?

Ina Chureetur ● 7133d

There is another consideration too - in that when you are visiting a child in hospital you are supporting them and aiding their wellbeing and often freeing up time nurses would have to spend - so saving the hospital money.Same thing goes if giving a lift to a patient going into hospital or going home - often if a neighbour or friend isn't available - it is hospital transport which would have to be used.

Sarah Felstead ● 7133d

Ina.You're so right.  E-mail Mrs Keen MP I'd say...she has good contacts at the Hospital. We've seen complaints like this recently..either on this Forum..or in the local papers...about the crazy charges.And I agree about adjoining roads like Park Road...smashed car windows down that road regularly.If enough people complain..something might just possibly be done.

Jim Lawes ● 7133d

I completely agree with you Ina that parking fees should be considered in relation to why people are requiring the use of a car park and should be structured differently.I have been in and out of West Middx and the minimum cost is £1.20 - which I have had to feed into the machine even though I have been dropping something off to a patient and have been no longer than 15 minutes on several occasions.*** Somebody did say that there is a season ticket or lesser charge ticket available - but that it isn't publicised? ***Another hospital I have been visiting is free if you are 10 minutes or less which is useful if you have to drop somebody off - the car park machine will let you out with no cost.  They do advertise that there is a refund available or reduction in the charge if you are visiting frequently.This hospital also has 4 bays which are there for drop off and pick up with up to a 30 mins stay with no charge before clam