Forum Topic

Local councils overriding democracy

A lot over the weekend on Local Authorities ignoring democratic procedure and ignoring residents or running faux consultations relating in particular to road closures and alterations.Many are choosing to follow consultants and external pressure groups who are making a killing from peddling their recommendations and have many councillors and officers in their pockets.A few of these groups are named.Is this borough in cahoots with any of them?Should residents be informed if they are being ignored or mislead in preference to non local eternal organisations?Indeed does anyone know if this is the case and how long it's been going on for and exactly who these people are?

Raymond Havelock ● 131d20 Comments

It's all very well saying that this topic is 'sour', but for some of us who deal with all this sort of thing a lot, it is a never-ending trial. We hear all the talk and airy-fairy nonsense about 'collaborative working' with people/groups/residents etc. And all the guff about Hounslow being a 'listening council', who then proceed to ignore their own consultation charter and ride roughshod over locals to impose their idea of traffic Nirvana, just to give one example from many. So when you have had years of this tripe do tell how 'sour' you'd feel. We all know about the financial difficulties that local authorities are up against - but a lot of things are not about money - they are about common sense which actually might save them some money in the long run. Their shabby treatment of people cannot hide behind that red herring.

Vanessa Smith ● 93d

I can't remember ever seeing such a sour forum topic. All the usual suspects plus a new one who thinks it's moaning to comment on the Tories stealing 40% of council budgets whilst loading them with extra statutory responsibilites, eg on homelessness, elderly people and children with problems. I did learn one new thing though. One entry said our council sold off Brentford Dock. Not true but when I looked it up it was the GLC, not Thatcher this time, on 98 year leases.

Eric Baker ● 97d

Yes, it does make you question the recruitment process, as you would think people at a senior level are well acquainted with all these requirements already. Sounds like a lot of navel gazing to me.

Vanessa Smith ● 105d

I don't want to hear any moaning about cuts in central funding until the council ditches all of this DEI nonsense and commits to recruitment and promotion on the basis of competence and stops spending on polity motivated vanity projects e.g. rainbow pedestrian crossing.

Andy Herrick ● 105d

Also known as Brainwashing.We have lived in a near 70 year period of change, acceptance and tolerance. Even those in their 80s are incredibly tolerant and accepting and that includes those off this age group who came here many, many decades ago.There are, and will always be nasty elements. and there will always be disadvantage. That unfortunately will always be the case in the kind of society we have . Look at other societies and cultures globally - no-where is it miles better but there is far, far worse.None of these course and sidetracking consultants will address the true source of division. That is prevalent in the way this borough and governance is run.All it will serve is the continuing smoke and mirrors of this ever increasing over politicised dominated culture. If 200 'executives' are that dense or dopey that they have no comprehension of respect civility, humanity and professional integrity and duty to serve the public then the real question is  Are they fit for purpose in their jobs?

Raymond Havelock ● 106d

From Brentford Today & TVHOUNSLOW COUNCIL: £42,500 ALLOCATED FOR SENIOR LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT IN EQUALITY, DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION AWARENESS. Decision approved by Mandy Skinner, Assistant Chief Executive, after consultation with Cabinet member Cllr Samia Chaudhary.Council proposal says: "We have tested the market, through a transparent procurement process, and our preferred supplier to design and deliver the programme is Sea-Change Consultancy. They will develop a series of 3 workshops which will focus on inequity from a personal perspective, structural inequity, and achieving strategic change to address inequity."Our Staff Equality Network groups will be involved in the final design of the programme and will provide an additional input to reflect the experience of our own staff, ensuring action plans are appropriately focussed. The workshops will be attended by the whole senior leadership cohort (around 200 employees who are our Chief Officers and on Hounslow Management Grades) with follow up interventions planned to track progress on the action plans agreed. The cost for the development and implementation this work is £42,500." MORE HERE: https://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=622&MId=13213

Vanessa Smith ● 106d

Sadly it is just as bad with the GLA.Not only that but its "Open to Londoners forum' requires too many personal details and you are red listed if they do not like your inputs. That's not abusive stuff just anything that does not align wit their pre set agendas.  Furthermore they seek out members of alighnewd activist groups which further sets a rather worrying scenario leading to imposed policy and project leads. Familiar techniques updated  methods used to manipulate which two rather nasty outfits in the 20th century used very effectively to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses. Of course it never happens here. Oh No.  Even though one is unravelling currently and only Private Eye has had the guts to never let this issue go.

Raymond Havelock ● 114d

Seems to me,and this applies nationally and not just locally,that the only time the showers that be are interested in democracy or your opinion even if expressed in consultations,is at election time.

Keith Iddon ● 114d

Recently it has become a matter of contention as to what constitutes 'consultation' between Hounslow council and its residents. Although there is much chatter, and proclamations from some councillors about Hounslow being a 'listening' council, 'collaborating' with people, 'working together' and various platitudes along those lines, it would seem that there is a fly in the ointment. Where the council has made a 'policy decision' and then goes out to 'consultation' - it appears to be the case that no matter how strong public opinion is against whatever issue this concerns, that the fact it is already a 'policy decision' overrides everything else. Not very honest is it? Of course some consultation is mandatory for councils, but being bound by the results of that is not, as many of us know only too well. The other problem is the rise in decisions being handed to 'Chief Officers', who seem to decide just who and who isn't worthy of consultation, and just who is a 'stakeholder', often decisions made with no or precious little justification let alone evidence to support them. Going through the motions isn't good enough, we deserve better. But where does this leave Hounslow and all their fanfares about how they value the views of their residents, they have even made taking part in consultations on some issues more complicated and requiring people to register first! What are they afraid of? To encourage people to get involved in local issues and take pride in the  borough, these things have to be made as easy and accessible as it is humanly possible to do, not beset by obstacles and really daft statements - such as if you require a paper copy of a specific consultation, (which acknowledges not everyone is online) - then e-mail and ask for one! And they don't even spot how ridiculous that looks. Another case of a big organisation riding roughshod over the 'little people'.

Vanessa Smith ● 114d

Sadly not just Hounslow, Ealing is almost as bad and culpable in not even publishing a local plan for five years allowing developers to drive a coach and horses through any 'restrictions' or guidelines.

N V Brooks ● 121d

Given recent experience I'd say this council haven't just 'overidden' democracy - they've trashed it completely.

Vanessa Smith ● 121d

That's a rant of absolute naivety. Slanted in ignorance.All three political parties have been involved in upholding the flawed policies of others.  In any case, abusing democratic procedures and protocols has nothing to do with funding and everything to do with politics and the politics of doctrines not made clear to electorates and avoided when raised at elections.

Raymond Havelock ● 124d

I nearly choked on my Cornflakes when I read your last post, “Stole” you having a laugh! It was a Labour Council that sold off Brentford Dock. You still don't get it is private. Maybe you should be asking LBH why they did what they did. Longterm decisions have far reaching consequences just like the current over development in the Town centre.Sure we have some minor issues with heating from time to time (Although i have not) and there is some Asbestos but its well managed. Thats to be expected of a nearly 50 year old estate by the way.Yes and thank our lucky stars we didnt have a Foot, Kinnock or Corbyn Government. Tony Blair and his cronies did enough damage to the Country in the time they were in power!

David Cook ● 125d

This thread was originally framed as about local councils overriding democracy. Difficult when central government has smahed their budgets. And with our grossly unfair FPTP system (shared only with the Belarus dictatorship, in Europe) it's the national government which mostly gets to act in dictatorship mode. Johnson could only get 42% of the vote against Corbyn yet awarded himself a huge majority of MPs. Thatcher only managed the same against Michael Foot. Both minority vote governments then overrode democracy horribly. Nobody voted for a hard Brexit and Thatcher inflicted the Poll Tax and stole much of our locally owned social housing and used it to buy votes. That is very relevant in the case of our local dark brown gated gulag. I hear that its district heating system is clapped out and that the estate has a real asbestos problem. Not exactly a posh gated development.

Eric Baker ● 126d

Meeowww! What does that comment have to do with this thread?

David Cook ● 127d

That estate looks ever more like a rundown prison since the gating.

Anne England ● 127d

Theres a long history of flawed contracts and lack of clarity and protection.Starts with Firestone.One recalls a Parks contract which missed out cleaning and maintaining the paths.So the contract holder didn't.Then it happened again.Things that should have been kept an eye on and acted upon to protect have simply been overlooked.That's not the Councillors in particular but it is when residents do flag these things up and then nothing is acted upon.A lot more to do with senior officers or executives. Who are too much part of a career merry go round and too few are genuinely committed to service and duty as a public servant.Most instability, aside from the political party antics is worst in Boroughs where the revolving door of executives, huge salaries and pay offs, exclusive pension deals and the circle of  'Cronies' goers on and on.If one looks at the long periods of well run stable councils the names of Town Clerks ( as they were then known ) are the same for decades and often local residents to the district if not the borough.It's probable that London Boroughs are too unwieldy and the GLA too controlling in the wrong areas.

Raymond Havelock ● 129d

We had exactly the same problem here on Brentford Dock when LBH Councillors and the planning dept decided to ignore the resident views on gating our estate.With their pig headed views it cost them dearly when we went to the high court and won our case. Where was the public outcry against them when they waisted thousands of £s in bringing flawed article 4 directions?

David Cook ● 130d

Our councillors are the ones failing us, they delegate decision making to Chief Officers, who are not elected. They listen only to officers and not to local residents, 'consultation' is a farce, because they simply ignore it if it  does not accord with one of their 'policies'. They rarely as far as I can see- bother to do a site visit and see a situation for themselves, ditto officers who seem to think looking at a computer screen will suffice, rather than get off their rears and out of their offices/front room and actually talking to people. If this Post Office scandal has shown anything - it is that listening to 'officials' alone and not bothering to hear both sides of an issue, is a bloody stupid way to run any organisation.

Vanessa Smith ● 131d

Surely not referring to the London Cycling Campaign and the (at least) two Hounslow Cabinet level councillors who are members.

N V Brooks ● 131d