Forum Topic

Question for the Council

I attended the area Forum last year and was very struck by what a teacher from a local school said in answer to a question about the acute lack of GPs. She said many of her pupils aspired to be doctors but could not get funding for the training which was said to be £250000 per student for a 5 year course. Could not we, the borough, put £5,000,000 a year into training these youngsters thus producing 20 new doctors every 5 years and 100 new doctors over the next 25 years. We would of course set a time period for them to work in the Borough to repay our investment. With the explosion in the local population we are going to need them.

Robert Ayres ● 26d39 Comments

I hope you continue to do well Jim.

Anne England ● 10h

Sadly I'm not in a combative frame of mind Anne.I'm having a battle with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukaemia  at the moment.Thankfully the Hospital says I'm winning on points but I need a knock-out to win the battle.Please carry on!

Jim Lawes ● 1d

Your chum Lambert constantly gripes about being plagiarised elsewhere, as you know. This is despite his quotes being in the public domain AND being attributed to him. Yet he’s happy to pass off other things as his own thoughts. Then he really dislikes being proved wrong.The report from the government was based on inaccurate and biased data, not least the failure to record vehicles travelling at less than 10km per hour. For Lambert and other politicians of his ilk to rely on such ‘facts’ is tantamount to lying. It’s been going on for a while yet he doesn’t seem to understand that increasing numbers of people are aware of this gaming of the system.And having seen Lambert berating residents on the streets of Brentford because they have the temerity to disagree with him really doesn’t give him, or you, the moral high ground. But frankly, your opinion of me counts for nothing.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

What a charmer you are, Mr Hayes. Perhaps Jim Lawes will have something to say to you.

Anne England ● 1d

No it doesn’t. Since you are too stupid to understand anything relating to journalism or accurate reporting let me explain it to you in very simple terms.Publishing an article puts that information in the public domain. It’s then available to everyone to repeat and reuse. But there’s an onus on the person publishing that information to ensure that what’s written is accurate and fact checked. That wasn’t the case here, and the information in the government report was based on flawed research. A simple Google search would have thrown up all the inaccuracies in Rachel Alfred’s ‘research’, including not recording vehicles moving at less than 10km per hour on peripheral roads.You should cut down on your pork life Guy. Get some education. It’s never too late.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

Really galls you when it does!

Guy Lambert ● 2d

Here’s a link to the ‘research’: https://newsfromcrystalpalace.wordpress.com/2023/11/21/blocked-off-roads-new-rachel-aldred-report-on-ltns-admits-research-shortcomings-many-limitations-that-traffic-counters-dont-count-all-traffic-and-why-theyre-not-relevant/Private Eye has been informed as it is at least the one publication that tries to report the truth.

Simon Hayes ● 5d

The data from London LTNs was flawed. The methodology didn’t record vehicles traveling at less than 10kmph, of which there were many.What your own council recorded was an 18 percent increase on Windmill Road. Traffic doesn’t evaporate, it gets pushed elsewhere. But then as a paid up LCC member you have to toe their line as well.Of course, you don’t report the many mentions of LBH in Rotten Boroughs, do you? Still, you will have more time to read Private Eye when you lose your cabinet portfolios!

Simon Hayes ● 5d

Not sure It was reported in Private Eye, with the comment that the government had not published it.

Guy Lambert ● 5d

I found this recent research report:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65f400adfa18510011011787/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-research-report.pdfIs it the one you referred to?It looks to be pretty thorough on a quick scan.The executive summary gives a flavour of the mixed counclusions of the report. 

Andy Herrick ● 5d

I posted it the other day, can't remember where. I used the article published in Private Eye last week. Traffic down nearly 50% within LTNs and slightly down in 'border roads' based on from memory Government research (and not published by them, obviously, wrong answer) on about 50 LTNs in London. Plus some overseas experiences.

Guy Lambert ● 5d

So reducing traffic outside LTNs? Windmill Road traffic increased by 18 percent after the closure of Swyncombe Avenue and the introduction of the  Whitestile LTN. Source? Hounslow Council.Lambert is pulling the old trick of blaming everyone else for unpopular policies. The Tories under Johnson did offer cash to councils to introduce LTNs, but there was no obligation to take it or use it. The idea at the time (2020) was to allow more space for social distancing (remember that?). All nonsense of course.

Simon Hayes ● 5d

Guy, please give sources for the "extensive polling" showing LTNs are popular and the "reduces traffic" claim.My experience (Whitestile Road) is the LTN here is not popular (the last consultation run by the council showed 70% against, https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20053/transport/2171/hounslows_streetspace/8).  Comparing with the adjacent Darwin Road (Ealing) where the LTN road blocks were removed I see little difference in traffic flow.The installation of these road blocks has led to regular costs (I assume borne by the council) to clear fly tipping and repair damage to the structures. I am regularly reporting incidents via FixMyStreet, the latest being damage to one of the flimsy bollards at the location.  You might like to review the number of incidents and report back to this forum with the total cost incurred since installation.While Hounslow Council continues to waste money on painting rainbows on pedestrian crossings (contrary to national guidelines on road signage) and sending managers on "subconscious bias" training I don't want to hear any more blaming the Tories for our local problems.

Andy Herrick ● 5d

With my respect, Robert, mostly untrue, though I would never suggest you are a moron. We disagree on many things but I respect you, and particularly appreciated your generous comments after the 2022  election, where you stood and performed very creditably.The Cycle lanes are funded by TfL under the direction (originally) of Boris Johnson and (later) under Grant Shapps and a number of succeeding transport ministers since (I have lost count)Ditto with LTNs. They are actually popular as extensive polling has shown and reduces traffic both within and within the LTNs. I agree they are controversial and the Conservative party put a lot of energy in arguing against policies that they have demanded which is a bit odd (see last weeks Private Eye)What CIL is spent on varies from time to time according to what is deemed to be urgent, and within the Local Authority's responsibility. Much is supporting (and has yet to be spent) plans to provide a link from GWR to Elizabeth Line at Southall - important to support new commercial investment on GWR and local jobs. Also to (eventually) create a Lionel Road station to link the Hounslow loop line to other parts of the rail network via Acton. There are a lot of other priorities EG expanding schools (3 new secondary schools in Isleworth and Isleworth in the last few years, and early expansion of primary schools (St Paul's. Lionel in particular)And yes, we did publish a manifesto in 2022 (I had a role in writing it) and the Lab party have one for the GLA/Mayor elections (rumour has it that Susan Hall has finally produced one) and there will be one if Sunak eventually concedes that we need a general election.

Guy Lambert ● 6d

Guy with all due respect I'm not a moron. I understand completely that the local authority is not responsible for funding the training of doctors. My question to you and your colleagues was an invitation to think out-of-the-box to help this community, the one you purport to represent, with the shortage of doctors within the borough.You say you do not have funds but you do have funds to put cycle lanes all over the borough and subsidise lime bikes, the pet project of the deputy leader of the council. You also expended all the money that you got from central government on LTN's against the wishes of every resident in every ward within this borough, when for once you actually bothered to canvas the  views of the residents, but of course when they disagreed you did your usual and ignored them.You say that you do receive money from the developers who are building the enormous amount of flats within Brentford thus causing the problem, so can I ask where this money is going ? It would seem to me that your only answer to every question is to blame the Tories while at the same time your own party has published no manifesto and seems to make up policies on the hoof when asked questions.It's obvious from your answers that you do the same.

Robert Ayres ● 7d

I think you have made some very relevant points Simon. It’s a question of trust at all levels. Sadly all the main Political Parties have some way to go before it’s regained if ever! Some really interesting info coming out of this debate. Oral health is so important. Bad teeth can cause many other health problems. Dentists also can find other major problems on routine check ups such as mouth cancers and the like.

David Cook ● 11d

The moral of all this is, why trust the word of one political gang over another? Should Labour get in next time they will find themselves compromised from day one. They’ve already backtracked on green policies and social care.Remember Tony Blair’s ‘ethical foreign policy’? Didn’t last long and taking us into a war based on false information was unforgivable. How many billions ended up wasted there?

Simon Hayes ● 11d

Let's not forget the billions wasted on the super duper NHS IT system (NPFIT) under Labour. Much of this went to American based IT companies and consultancies.

Andy Herrick ● 11d

Well, nobody is saying the system is great are they councillor? But trying to claim that your party is better than another party is just nonsense.You may recall that it was a 2006 Labour policy that resulted in the loss of NHS access to dental care for hundreds of thousands of people.The point is that your beloved Labour mess things up just as much as the Tories do.

Simon Hayes ● 12d

Commonwealth Fund - an American Health thinktank that was set up as a charity by Standard Oil.2014 assessment (2013 data) of 11 health systems in major developed countries. UK is best https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system2017 assessment of same 11 countries; Uk still ranked best overall (data is from 2016)https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/2021 assessment of the same 11 countries UK now 4th and clearly going backwardshttps://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

Guy Lambert ● 12d

Fancy Guy Lambert forgetting 13 years of Labour government!For as long as anyone can remember the NHS has been a mess and not one political party has come up with a workable solution. The next government won’t either. Just throwing money at it doesn’t work.

Simon Hayes ● 12d

Forgive me for reminding you that Tony Blair’s Governments were the ones who started the PFIs which today the NHS trusts are paying Millions of £s into!I agree the NHS is not fit for its purpose. While I was working I had the choice of paying extra into my Pension Pot or funding Private Healthcare. I wished now I paid the extra for Private Healthcare!

David Cook ● 12d

And how are the Welsh Labour administration doing Guy with their health service?

Paul Fisher ● 12d

Indeed. Messes up the NHS, something the Conservative party have been trying to do for decades.

Guy Lambert ● 12d

Yes they mostly leaving to warmer climes where they get better pay and worklife balance.

David Cook ● 12d

Well we'll make a start. Boris Johnson promised 5000 more doctors. In fact last time I looked there were 1000 less

Guy Lambert ● 13d

Thats a really rubbish answer when its not lack of money being thrown at the NHS but a lack of staff and it takes a long time to train staff. I doubt very much It change much in the next 4 years whichever Government is in power after the election.

David Cook ● 13d

The council has no responsibility for training doctors and no funding to do it, however we would like that.You will have to wait for a change of government when health of the English public will again be a priority, rather than feeding our money out to the government's cronies and funders like TPP and 'Baroness' Michelle Mone

Guy Lambert ● 15d

Most people cannot afford private healthcare and even Private Dental care. I was recently quoted £395 for a tooth extraction privately. On the NHS it’s still around £73 and I am on a waiting list of at least 6 months to have it carried out at West Middlesex. My wife had a Brain haemorrhage around 18 months ago while we were in NI. The care she needed was non existent when we got home. The Politicians are brilliant at all blaming one another for the problems. It compelled me to write to Ruth Cadbury but the reply I got was a complete waste of time. I am also still waiting for a reply after she told me she would take it up with the Minister responsible.Hopeless to say the least!

David Cook ● 17d

The £250.000 figure was given to the meeting by a local GP. As for retention I did say a period of working within the Borough would be a condition of funding. Its just an idea I am putting out there as if we are going to ease the local health care crisis we had better help ourselves as no Government helpis coming.

Robert Ayres ● 17d

I'm not sure that the figure of £250,000 comes from. I've spoken to a number of recently qualified doctors some of whom have taken further degrees and their student debt isn't that high although it is still eye-watering.If you get the grades to go to medical school, you will get your course fees and some maintenance covered by a loan if you are on a low income so I don't think that this is a barrier to people becoming doctors. The Hounslow Council taxpayer may provide extra funding for people to qualify but there could be no guarantee that they would go on to become GPs in Brentford.As has been mentioned, the main problem is retention. My view is that the best way to get round this problem with minimal impact on the public purse would be to say that no student loan payments should be deducted from earnings by doctors working in the NHS and no interest should be charged on the balance of their loan. This mean an instant payrise for all NHS doctors and an effective forgiveness of the loan if they stay with the service for their entire working life.The net cost would be minimal because remember they would make no student loan payments anyway if they went overseas.Even if this solution was adopted I think we would still have a problem getting GPs due to the high cost of housing and the demands of an urban practice.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 17d

Guy did you read my post properly. What I am suggesting is that our Council fund the training of young people who want to enter the medical profession and once qualified they repay our investiment by working in the borough for five years.If we invest £5 million a year, which will cover the cost of training 20 student Doctors, and invest the same every year over a 5 year period, that's 100, and I am sure that some would like to stay working in the community that helped them.

Robert Ayres ● 17d

thanks.

David Cook ● 23d

'Sadiq Khan was able to pay the rail workers why not the Doctors?'Because doctors work for the NHS and that does not come under the purview of the Mayor, that's why. It's a pity the so- called Secretary of State for Health doesn't get off her rear and try talking to the unions, instead of trying to demonise them for representing their members.

Vanessa Smith ● 23d

Sadiq Khan was able to pay the rail workers why not the Doctors?

David Cook ● 24d

They do, and we sometimes stipulate that space is reserved for doctor surgeries, EG in Great West Quarter.But the problem is that the NHS in general is terribly short of doctors. None are looking to open surgeries in Brentford, so providing premises is rather thankless.

Guy Lambert ● 25d

Guy, let's leave the blame game out. I am asking, can we as a community help ourselves. The huge amount of development in Brentford has led to immense strain on local services. So for a start why can't we make the developers, who made the problem and made the vast profits, pay to fix it. Why not a levy on each flat of say £1000 for a start.

Robert Ayres ● 26d

If the government gave to Hounslow their share of the 15 Bn the Financial Times said they wasted on useless PPE that would provide £64M (I calculate) for Hounslow. That would create quite a lot of doctors, but it would be better run by central government. Perhaps then they would pay some attention to doctors which would stop up to 40% of them heading off overseas when they are qualified https://fullfact.org/health/doctors-nhs-rishi-sunak-australia/

Guy Lambert ● 26d

oops 125

Robert Ayres ● 26d