Forum Topic

Waterman’s

Well, no surprise that the developer of the Waterman’s and old police station sites has pulled out. That was predicted on this forum a year ago.Of course it doesn’t improve the likelihood of a new arts centre opening in the foreseeable future, since any potential new developer will want to formulate their own plans for both sites, and then have to go through the whole planning process again.As for meanwhile use for the rapidly deteriorating arts centre, it’s all gone very quiet. It’s six months since the centre closed and even the jocular councillor who bogs on these pages has given up pretending anything is going to happen.Perhaps if there was a promise of free tickets to every show those Labour types in Hounslow would pull their fingers out!

Simon Hayes ● 206d15 Comments

Mike,they ceased using paper programmes about 5 or 6 years ago,nowhere near 30.

Keith Iddon ● 181d

I continued to receive the monthly programme, by post, until the pandemic. I agree that the loss of it made a big difference but it wasn't thirty years ago.

Susan Kelly ● 183d

Very successful evening last night in Saint Lawrence Church. Hounslow Council should give up pretending Watermans will be revived. Riverside required a billionaire.

Chris Dakers ● 184d

This is all so much spilt milk. The demise of Watermans began over 30 years ago when they ceased producing a printed fold-out monthly programme which was widely distributed in Chiswick and Brentford, maybe further, I'm not sure. During those times I attended several times a month every month. A movie, a play, an art exhibition, or just a beer and listen to some live jazz. Perfect. That cannot fully be replicated by email list and web site, particularly if badly run. Sometimes - often even - print just works. There have been a bunch of other issues, but that was a biggie, in my opinion: bad marketing choices.

Mike Paterson ● 184d

The Ealing Project Cinema had to dealt with two new competitors. The arrival of Picturehouse in Ealing in October 2023 with its 8 screens and Act One in Acton High Street, opening in 2021 with one screen, then a second screen some 12 months ago. It's anecdotal, but friends living in Ealing were telling me early this year that they no longer went to Watermans. For art house movies Act One was easier and quicker to get to, for mainstream films they now had the Picturehouse.

Sue Rowe ● 184d

Looks like the council has tacitly conceded that there will be no Waterman’s resurrection in the foreseeable future, if ever. To quote Radiohead, ‘No Surprises’.

Simon Hayes ● 185d

The logic of moving the Watermans away from the water was that the premium that would be paid for riverside flats made it more likely that it would be possible to fund the arts centre as part of the deal.In all the whisperings I have heard about this project over the last year, there has been an insinuation that the 'developer' was chiselling over the proportion of affordable units on the grounds of viability. However, it now appears that the developer being referred to was Peabody and not LGL. What has become unviable is there ability as a Housing Association to take on board the affordable units at the Half Acre site. This seems to be a London-wide problem brought on by legislation designed to protect tenants which is raising the cost for them to take on units to manage.Therefore, I don't think it is helpful to use words such as 'deluded' and 'uncertifiable'.The good news is that if it is simply a matter of replacing the affordable housing provider this project may be back on track soon.Alex is right about the Ealing Project failure being a concern but I think Arts Centres include cinemas because the internally generated revenue can be matched with new grant funding so it doesn't actually need to be profitable.

Kenneth Seally ● 192d

population is so diverse, distorted and fragmented that no one entity can be viable.With Arts councils large and small constantly showing disdain for all things mainstream.Councils have fudged everything and both the Fountain and Waterman's are a result of poor design, and interfering resulting in poor management of entities that both thrived initially, despite the shortcomings.Whoever though that moving Waterman's away from the riverside - a public asset par excellence and deluded enough to think any other location or building will be a complete utopia must be certifiable.  Unfortunately those declared uncertifable are the many who saw this for what it was and predicted this outcome many moons ago.Same old , same old.

Raymond Havelock ● 193d

Given the Ealing Project Cinema had to go into liquidation this week (even after there'd been no cinema in Ealing for 15 years), it's very evident there's little to no funding for arts projects. It's a vital part of local life and yet unless there's a bunch of donors with good cash flow or good sponsorships, these things are unsustainable in the current economy. I do hope it changes, though.

Alex Marshall ● 199d

Chris, first it was never in the basement (except the earliest version had a larger theatre which used some underground parts because the Arts Council were originally looking for a 500 person audience capacity) but on the ground floor.There was a thorough business plan produced by expert arts consultants, though it being financially viable was always debatable (and would always depend on subsidies, as Watermans always have). I agree having a cinema round the corner is another challenge, but the trustees (and consultants) were aware of that at the time they produced the business plan.Using ST Lawrence Church was investigated, partly on my suggestion but it was clear to people who understand these matters that it is not viable, though of course would potentially be an option for amateur groups etc.

Guy Lambert ● 203d

The idea of an Arts Centre in the basement of the redeveloped police station site was never realistic. It was also impossible to ascertain whether any business plan had been prepared. Hounslow Council has no spare money. St. Lawrence Church is shortly being used for a concert. I suggest it becomes an arts centre to replace Watermans. We will soon have the Everymans cinema opening on the waterfront.

Chris Dakers ● 203d

There’s no money in building theatres and arts centres, at least not for the developers. The costs are high and you can’t flog off the finished building at exorbitant market rates.The fact is that the management of the Waterman’s were complacent to the point of negligence about keeping the centre as a going concern. The council will have been aware of the situation well in advance, not least because they were landlords as well as having a councillor on the board of trustees. Maybe they aren’t interested, or were lied to, or simply fell asleep at meetings. We will never know.Perhaps the plan is to wait long enough that the people of Brentford, and beyond, simply forget about the Waterman’s and the whole project can be quietly shelved.

Simon Hayes ● 206d

As has been said by others - let's hope this is not a repeat of the Richmond Ice Rink con.

Vanessa Smith ● 206d

Well it is safe to say, there will be more flats, as that is where the money is. How can they close one Art Centre, and have no plan for a new one, when it was meant to the centre Piece. Great planning

Joanne Sky ● 206d

As I understand it the reason for the quietness over the issue is not lack of activity but the complexity of the situation which has come as a shock to those who thought it would be easy to find a resolution. People are working hard at this both councillors and members of the community so perhaps you should avoid disparaging the efforts of those who are working to put this right.As for this latest bit of news, it does strike me as quite an odd way to reveal to the public exactly what is happening given the huge local interest in the matter.The timescale of a new arts centre is probably put back to the end of the decade unless the currently planning application could be salvaged. I'm not even sure if that is possible but theoretically you could ditch any requirement for affordable units or a community levy, making the arts centre the developer's contribution. If this was possible we might get a new arts centre in 2026.

Kenneth Seally ● 206d