Forum Topic

Waterman's

Any news about Waterman's rising like a phoenix from the ashes at a new Brentford location?

Eric Alan Leach ● 222d47 Comments

What’s puzzling me is what does the following actually mean:‘The plans no longer include a dedicated cinema space but rather are for a new cultural facility which is designed as a flexible shell-and-core space intended to accommodate a range of uses such as gallery exhibitions, performance events, and community activities. While it may be capable of hosting film screenings as part of a multi-use programme, there is no specific provision for a permanent cinema installation.’What does ‘shell and core space’ entail?How do they accommodate different events that might overlap?Where are the drawings to show what’s proposed?Mist importantly, who will be operating this ‘world class arts centre’? If it’s the HAT it will certainly not be any sort of class.

Simon Hayes ● 13d

Waterman's is dead. It should be decently buried.

Chris Dakers ● 13d

'How well attended are the local cinemas?  And who attends cinemas nowadays and to see what?'I've just checked and I've seen 45 films this year so far. I hate watching films on TV: I want to be in a big, dark room, probably with an ice cream.I can recommend the Ealing Picturehouse which is an easy ride on the 65 from Brentford, stopping 1 minute from the cinema in Bond Street.I'm a member so, after my 5 free tickets which covered the cost of membership, I get a further £3 off all other tickets, meaning that I pay £7.99.I also go to Act One a lot. Don't bother with any other venues any more.You can check out the film reviews on the Acton website if you need guidance from ... well, me mostly.

Susan Kelly ● 13d

It is safe to assume, we cant really trust anyone in power. Say one thing and do another thing. How many Flats does a small area need. Also I can see the Leisure centre is having a issue. Let me guess, they will close it down and say "too costly to improve" and then just put more flats with a Promise to build a Swimming Pool as well.  Luckily there is no internal control in councils. Well done "Brenford Project", you have managed to create xxxx more homes with 1 New Coffee Shop, a few new eateries. I even understand Boots did not want to come to the high street.

Joanne Sky ● 13d

The Waterman's Cinema was usually full or near to full. We went every week sometimes twice a week. Helped in part that my wife was a GSK employee and got in free or at 50% discount.  It was affordable in anywise and had excellent sound and image quality.It certainly kept the place alive over the past 15 - 20 years.Not as plush as the new place up the road, but that's unaffordable to us now, so we now go to Acton - which is 5* on all counts but a pain to get to and from.We go less. But that's because there is not the mix or eclectic program that somehow Waterman's and Richmond Filmhouse used to do so very well.

Raymond Havelock ● 14d

How well attended are the local cinemas?  And who attends cinemas nowadays and to see what?  Probably Watermans was the last cinema I went to and that wasn't often and that was more than 30 years ago.  The last time I was going to go there it was a bit more recently and for some jazz but that was cancelled due to not enough interest and we never picked up going.  I went regularly and often several times a week to Watermans when there were fabulous childrens music classes for those but we grew out of them and then we were more aware of what was happening there but being able to get a babysitter and getting away from work in time often made seeing a film too stressful an addition to life.  There were some really memorable family pantomimes at Christmas.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

After all this time it's a complete withered lemon of an idea.Exactly what set the Waterman's on its demise from a thriving must go to venue, to a poorly, rather insipid fare that no-one was interested in.  The Arts and Local Councils diktat minority priorities were a turn off - even for minorities and just self indulgent.  With the odd surprise , but all too rare.Only the cinema and the location by the river kept it viable and the location albeit a poor design was an asset any arts centre in the rest of the country would kill for.Not here. Its Developers £££££s and influences first and foremost. Always.Completely fudged and a lot of it is down to the blinkered and funding obsessed style of management which often impedes a lot of Arts centres from being the hub that Waterman's once proved quite possible.

Raymond Havelock ● 14d

And from my experience the cinema at Watermans was consistently the most popular service offering.The latest offering makes no sense.

Eric Alan Leach ● 14d

I see the new plans for the Watermans doesn't include a cinema but more cultural arts

Barbara Dudley ● 15d

A per this council will give in to any change in planning submitted,if they had any guts they would stick up for the voters of this area and tell company NO build what was agreed with or get lost,But as we know they only think about themselves.A NEW SWIMMING POOL WILL NEVER HAPPEN

Andrew Buckland ● 15d

Yes,all the blah blib blab 'assurances' that Waterman's would be replaced with a 'vibrant,world class arts centre'appears to be disingenuos drivel designed to fob us off until we finally accept that it will not happen.Sad on many levels,it's what I suspected all along.They will be asking me to vote for them soon.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

cinema sorely missed but not to be replaced, Everyman is not for me. The warm fuzzy feeling just isnt there. rip watermans

irene barber ● 16d

I wonder if they have paid any attention to the problems of extreme heat experienced by many people living in new build flats. Designed (if these rabbit hutches can claim to have any ‘design’) to be insulated and hermetically sealed during cold months but unbearable in summer.https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/aug/12/do-not-buy-these-flats-residents-warn-about-unbearable-heat-inside-london-new-buildsAs for the arts centre? Smaller. No cinema. Not even the promise of a dedicated theatre space. Just ‘multi-purpose use’, whatever that means, and hardly like-for-like. Mind, if it’s run by the same lacklustre and clueless bunch who ran the old centre into the ground it won’t take long for it to be converted into either retail space (coffee shop anyone?) or more unaffordable flats.

Simon Hayes ● 16d

And in Brentford News .... No space for a cinema apparently - instead a multi purpose space and even more flats... how many will be genuinely affordable ??  Such deception...I hope there is enough sewage pipe work - let alone electricity etc - to service all this building (and 2000 flats in Glaxo building ???)

Sally Mason ● 16d

Albany Riverside is the name given (most likely by the developers) to the linked redevlopment of the previous Police Station, Watermans Park building (popularly known as Max Factor) and the former Watermans Arts Centre.

Guy Lambert ● 22d

HiSorry what is 'ALbany Riverside', is this area right next to the riverside? Or are you referring to the the flats off Albany Road?

Joanne Sky ● 22d

I'll leave it there Simon. I just react when people publish drivel on social media.

Guy Lambert ● 29d

Sour grapes from a champagne ‘socialist’. You must be quite something to be kicked out of the new Nasty Party. How much is your riverside flat worth?You have no idea about my circumstances but like to pontificate about how everyone else should live. Much of what you believe is proven nonsense. People are waking up to that nationally and locally.But in case you’ve missed the point, read this: https://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=community&link=https://neighbournet.com/server/common/hounshousing011.htm

Simon Hayes ● 29d

We require the cessation now of the sale of council houses and building more. About as likely as Putin retreating back to the borders of Ukraine.

Chris Dakers ● 29d

Well yes, as you confirm, ther is still no development in Brentford. Apart from the about 1200 that I listed (and the others I didn't mention). Not affordable for those who already live in Houses in Ealing worth twice what the unaffordable flats will sell for

Guy Lambert ● 29d

Of course they build the expensive flats for the wealthy investors. The Griffin Park site has lain desolate for five years. Yeah, you will blame Liz Truss as always. The Watermans building has been vacant for 16 months. Prime riverside location yet nothing happening. Are we to expect five or ten years of indolence before a new arts centre opens for the community?Developers have no appetite for social housing or even ‘affordable’ as it eats into profits. Hence the lack of progress reported on the front page of this site. Apologising for them isn’t a good look.

Simon Hayes ● 29d

Yeah, on the button.Fairway are well on in their develoment of 330 flats on the riverside. Ballymore are on site with their latest blocks a few yards west of Fairview. Ecoworld seem close to developing Griffin Park - bulldozers ther a couple of weeks ago. Hadley have submitted their comprehensive plan to redevelop GSK site. Conversion of GW House to flats is in progress as I think is the last block on riverside way. Paragon (which once held ~1000 residents) is due to reopen between now and mid next year. SMall development opposite the station nearly completed. Chi=urchill House planning approced and likely to start soon.Nothing is certain unless it is contracted but the prospects in Brentford are strong.Demolition of Charlton House and its neighbours has started and when completed will bring 209 new council or Housing association social flats.Amazing this is happening when there is no construction going on in Brentford, but it couls be some peopleare looking the other way 😁I have asked for another update on 'ALbany Riverside'

Guy Lambert ● 31d

Eric, the market for flat sales has pretty much collapsed. Costs of construction are up, the value of what’s built is down, so profits aren’t there for developers any longer.It doesn’t take much effort to see the absence of meaningful construction going on in Brentford, Ealing and elsewhere. And without a massive surge in property values for new flats the Watermans project will continue at snails pace.Eventually they will hope we’ve all forgotten about the old theatre and arts centre and might accept that no replacement will arise….

Simon Hayes ● 31d

Another two months roll by and still no info on the Watermans replacement.Anyone know any news on this front?

Eric Alan Leach ● 32d

We are well into summer now and still no news about the replacement Watermans Arts venue.I have to remind folks again about the Richmond Ice Rink scandal. Knocked down and new rink promised - but never delivered.Any news anyone?

Eric Alan Leach ● 93d

Last time I was there there were two Union Jacks flying on Ambulant. The only squatter boat that remains on Waterman's Park mooring area. Why he is still there I don't know: it is supposed to be caught up in a legal case with the PLA and has been for about 5 years. The case against the squatters called for them to pay £31K each to the council to contribute to legal costs. Most of them paid but I think this one did not (and may anyway have been an exception because he had a separate legal strategy). Naturally, I have no information about this matter. I suppose not my business because no longer in my ward, but I am not losing interest!I am continuing to chase activity on the marina. The long stop date for the developers finishing 'phase one' (moorings for 16 boats) at the Eastern end is 1 July 2025. Officer says (last May) "We will be actively monitoring the developer against the programme of works, through to the newly agreed, 1st July 2025".I have been monitoring progress myself since May 2024 and the progress as far as I can see is "zero". The 'programme of works" has of course not been shared with me, but I find it improbable that the programme was to do nothing for 12 months then have a frantic month of activity.

Guy Lambert ● 110d

I was walking towards Waterman's Park today and became excited to see two national flags flying together (and impressively) with the trees of Kew Gardens in the background.Closer inspection revealed that the flags were being flown by a boat of some sort moored close to the Art Centre.One was the Japanese flag and the other... a Union Jack.By the evening ... they were goneand I missed them.So it occured to me that with theWorld Heritage site across the River ...ie Kew Gardens ...a large selection of international flags would look great to brighten up Waterman's Park!

Jim Lawes ● 111d

Well, they do say that 'Hope springs eternal'.............

Vanessa Smith ● 166d

As to the new arts centre/police station I have been reassured that negotiations (and construction planning - because building regulations have changed) are progressing well and those engaged expect a conclusion late spring or during the summer.Here's hoping

Guy Lambert ● 166d

The former Max Factor building has been leased on a 'meantime' basis by an arts charity. I visited last week and there are interesting artists there and some evnts being planned, including the Creative Mile which will come on 29-31st August.I am hoping that some pf the previous occupants can be accommodated.

Guy Lambert ● 166d

And another month slips by.Any news or even rumours about a new Watermans?

Eric Alan Leach ● 166d

One month on I repeat the question what's happening with the replacement Watermans Arts Centre?

Eric Alan Leach ● 195d

Yes, I realise that. Frankly I think the whole site is an eyesore and that view predates the closure of Watermans although it is, admittedly, even worse now.

Anne England ● 204d

If you mean the Max Factor building you should ask Guy Lambert. The previous tenants, including Team Keane, got booted out of there last year.

Simon Hayes ● 204d

Does any knocking down/building incorporate the building adjoining Waterman's? I am surprised to see that a no. of the offices/units in that building are currently let.

Anne England ● 204d

You can ask them why nothing has been done with the old Waterman’s site, despite it being vacant since last April. According to the website the units have sold out off-plan, yet not a sign of any work going on. I wonder why? If that was your investment property or new home you’d be wanting to get in there as soon as….

Simon Hayes ● 205d

They are running an art installation at Chiswick Business Park at the moment. It looks potentially interesting but it is a bit off the beaten track for most people. Presumably this sort of thing is enabled by funding pots that previously would have went to the Brentford based Watermans. I haven't seen a response on LGL. Are you persisting with your claim it is in financial difficulty?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 205d

Mainly involving events in Hounslow, very niche and not particularly appealing to those of us on the mailing list.If the new one ever gets built and becomes operational one can only hope that the same clowns who ran the cherished former venue into the ground have nothing to do with it. That includes councillors who sit on the board of trustees then seem oblivious to any financial pressures.

Simon Hayes ● 213d

I think I read recently that Waterman's has gone 'on the road'.Does anyone know any more about this please?

Keith Iddon ● 213d

If Simon has researched the financial position of LGL and has good grounds for saying that it is shaky then this is information that we all would be interested to see.As far as I can tell from what has been revealed the problem is with the affordable housing partner. There has been a serious collapse in affordable housing starts in London because housing associations lack funding and stricter regulation has reduced the return on managing properties. We should have had an announcement by now which is a concern.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 213d

More silence.Older readers might remember the fiasco about a new replacement ice rink in Richmond - which never happened. More recently we have the sagas of 'fall into disrepair' Fountains Leisure Centre, Southall's Warren Farm Sports Centre, Victoria Hall Ealing and Gurnell swimming pool in West Ealing.

Eric Alan Leach ● 216d

Lawyers? Wow.From past encounters Simon's comments I can assure you are always well researched.The dramatist Alan Bennett once said:'I'm all in favour of free speech provided it's kept rigidly under control'.

Eric Alan Leach ● 220d

What is your evidence for the development partner having been in financial trouble? I can't find any reference to this elsewhere and LGL appear to be progressing with a number of projects larger than the Watermans scheme. It is perhaps best not to comment on the stability of companies unless you have good sources or good lawyers.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 220d

That’s only part of the story.The call in by the Secretary of State was necessary because of the potential impact of the Waterman’s redevelopment on Kew Gardens over the river. That’s standard practice for places that are World Heritage sites. You might be a ‘socialist’ councillor, but due processes have to be followed.You neglect to mention that the original chosen developers were in serious financial problems for a long time. They were never seriously going to build an arts centre.You also don’t mention that all developers expect to make a minimum 25 percent profit on every project. Yes, costs have risen and there are skills shortages, but insisting that a change of government will improve things is laughable. Do you think builders are exempt from the NI increase heading our way? Just wait until that hits the economy!Oh yes, don’t forget that the management of Waterman’s ran the centre into the ground by failing to promote events or expand the offer. You will know this because it’s been well documented. If any new centre is built if the management is the same it won’t flourish and thrive, despite any number of hollow political promises.

Simon Hayes ● 220d

As I understand it, on the site of the old police station. This was agreed several years ago and the scheme was funded and granted planning permission. But it was called in by he then Secretary of State (Michael Gove I believe) and referred to planning inspectorate and then a public enquiry. After a long delay, the inspectorate agreed the original plan but by that time costs had escalated after Brexit and the market for residential property had weakened so that affected the viability of the scheme.At the time Watermans closed (the delay, Covid etc had eaten up the Arts trust's reserves and the centre itself was losing money) and the developer who owns most of the freeholds could not identify a developer (for the private elements) or a Housing Association (for the affordable element) who could make the sums add up.The situation has eased a little with the change of government and Salman told me he was confident we would have a viable solution early this year. Fingers crossed.

Guy Lambert ● 221d

Contracts for where, when and what exactly?

Eric Alan Leach ● 221d

Last I heard was that contracts are expecting early this year. Salman Shaheen (a Brentford resident) is the expert.

Guy Lambert ● 222d