Forum Topic

SuDS

Very interesting small comment in Guy Lambert's blog this week, regarding SuDS, Sustainable Drainage Systems. This was regarding people paving over their front gardens, many to enable them to park their cars there.One of the things that grinds my gears is the number of people who drive over our footpaths without the benefit of a proper vehicular crossover, in order to use the front garden as their own parking space. I have to say that LBH are appalling at any enforcement to put a stop to this - which contravenes The Highways Act 1980 Section 184. You should apply for a crossover from the Highways Authority - which happens to be your local council, this would also ensure that the council would be in a position to also ensure that any hardstanding installed to park the vehicle, was permeable or had sufficient drainage, thus helping us to save water. However, Hounslow's so-called 'Enforcement' seems to consist of maybe sending a feeble letter to any offenders pointing this out to them, then absolutely nothing happens. Apart from the damage to footpaths - what damage is possible to the services underneath them? Were LBH to actually enforce - this would bring in much needed revenue as they would be the people constructing the crossovers and possibly the hardstandings if a householder did not want to do that themselves. Why oh why LBH don't offer some sort of amnesty and a reduced rate to encourage the uptake - and make it clear if people don't comply - they will take the appropriate action?

Vanessa Smith ● 124d17 Comments

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006th08Hell and High Water:  Are We Ready for the Floods?

Philippa Bond ● 53d

Of course the drainage isn't new - that is exactly why and what the problem is!Only instead of more people living in a house and sharing facilities as they used to houses are being split up into individual smaller units with very many more water using devices than before.  Sharing a tin bath and bathwater once a week with other members of a family isn't exactly modern living!  Yet it was when our homes were built.The bigger problem is that IF and WHEN all rainwater is directed straight into the sewers and it is raining very heavily as it has done then it can overload not only gutters but the main sewer.  Cutting down trees and shrubs also makes a worsening difference.  Many people are frightened off by the cost and effort of the repeated pruning of trees together with insurance worries and many homes are not big enough for large trees so start to worry unnecessarily even if they aren't large. Climate change is bringing hotter temperatures which lead to greater sudden storms and heavier rainfall.  We know that we have had some of the hottest temperatures recorded this year.  This harder and heavier rain can then fall on land which is hard and dry and water bounces off rather than soaking in and runs to the lowest level causing flooding.    With London clay below us water does not drain well.

Philippa Bond ● 61d

I'm afraid Philippa that none of that is new and bear in mind that many of the kinds of properties you are referring to have mature back gardens and in areas of very mature trees and shrubs . But also that almost all services are ducted sub surface and foundations are relatively shallow but does depend of the geological topography and that is something that has been practised for a very, very long time.Vast majority of housing stock is over 80 years and the longevity of newer builds very questionable.The issue is densification, saturation and over concentration point of people into too small a space. Rising water tables and as I said before complete lack of proper and thorough maintenance going back almost half a century now.Most of the flash floods are down to detritus blockages and oiling and not the capacity plus the selling off of strategic reserve assets.  Myopic and foolish and yet it will end up with increasing losses of open space where it's needed the most.

Raymond Havelock ● 65d

Drainage for our older London homes tends to still be combined sewage and rainwater.  Newer homes may be different with Building Regulations requiring soakaways and attenuation tanks for rainwater. SuDs are being used to slow the flow of surface water to existing drains.  Rivers that had previously been straightened to increase the speed of transport on them and to increase and enable easier farming of the land are now being re-wiggled.Many of our homes were built before bathrooms with hot water on tap and washing machines and dishwashers.  It is not that there are so many houses now divided into flats but we also use a lot more water nowadays just because it is so much easier to do so. The UK has one of the highest per capita water uses in Europe.  For many years Thames Water offered reduced price water butts, and other water reduction gadgets like new taps and shower heads which aerated the water discharged so it felt just as much but was not discharged in such volume but water was plentiful so many did not take advantage. Newer toilets use far less water when they are working properly.Many of us have paved over our gardens to make patios and parking spaces which creates even greater rainwater runoff, greater heat and greater evaporation.  Hard dry ground does not soak up rainwater in the way that gardens with compost combined with their earth do.  Water will likely just bounce off and along running to lower ground to create flooding.Since there are so many built over underground rivers, streams, brooks, ditches etc that already take the waste from our homes adding to the volume put down them by adding run off from parks and streets is just likely to just increase the problem.  Sewage backing up into people's homes is what the water companies are trying to avoid.With deregulation and privatisation of Building Control so as to make it easier to allow more building some of the knowledge that a more centralised system provided gave was lost.It seems that the greater volume of water runoff that goes down the drains the greater the volume of mixed untreated sewage gets discharged into the river since many drains are created from and include water from culverted brooks and streams - as well as those misconnections that are made accidentally or indeed deliberately to avoid paying fees.   

Philippa Bond ● 65d

SuDS are pointless if there is no maintenance and in many countries SuDS end up stagnant and contaminated water occurs because of this very factor. The management does not always work as made out to be.SuDs are only really being used to enable additional developments in already dense and developed locations.This is a wet island. Heavy rain and cloudbursts are not uncommon and never have been for hundreds of years.  And being temperate, largely irregular. The geology is formed from it and that is how and where settlements developed.  In urban development sewers and drainage was long implemented and much of what we have is more than adequate for protracted rainfall and downpours.But examples of the other day show the sheer amount of blocked gully drains, yet the overflow vents in the central drains seldom overflow which indicates a lot of the water does not get to the central ducts.Water management of fundamental maintenance  has been reducing and near non existent for over half a century unaddressed and remains so.It cannot be done with an app or a computer at a desk or a coffee shop, its sound local knowledge and hands at the pump stuff. Not the first choice for most as it's a wet, cold and often dark job in the winter months.When was the last time anyone saw the main drains in their street being descaled or sludged out ?  It is pointless cooking up  schemes and wheeling them out as rose tinted enviro friendly et all without proper maintenance.  If the basics were routinely and properly carried out  in the first place, then most SuDS would not be required even if we had treble the rainfall.Misuse of floodplains and existing infrastructure being sold and developed upon remains permissible and simply creates problems.Most applied are in existing extreme areas of over densification and this is largely the intention of enablement in the London Basin.If done on the cheap it means losing large opens spaces - which are likely to be parks and usable recreational land rather than sub surface means.Many of these schemes would not be needed if the drainages network was properly maintained which means descaling and very regular cleaning of gulley drains.In London it is barely done at all in all 32 Boroughs and has not for nearing half a century.Most of the detritus is caused by street tree leaves and thus the leafier boroughs have larger problems.You cannot have it both ways. Trees mean maintenance not just in their adequate pruning and ensuring good mature stock but also caring up after them in over developed areas, Their leaf fall  does not get the same regenerative benefit as rural trees or those on undeveloped land.Driveways are a drop in the ocean front gardens are in the main small and the topsoil usually minimal with the building detritus of bricks slate aggregates and so on being the norm on structures going back hundred plus years ago. There were no skips or disposals it was dumped and grassed over. Even some Parks are like that. Plus under all that are the waste pipes and drains as well as most water supplies.  There has never really been much in the way of water soaking drainage.In anycase at that point the water table kicks in and depending on the Topographical surveys of a district that determines the water table and sub drainage.  In this area there is a continual slight fall from Horsenden and Hangar Hills all the way to the Thames at Brentford and Isleworth with several types of substrates. Ducted brooks and streams and underground fissures all run down to the Thames and have done for hundreds of years. But local mapping is very poor to this day, riddled with errors and conflicting surveys. Flood risks are not really a serious issue except for the River Brent who's flood plain is desired for developing on. The problem is over development and take a look at most new ones.  A patch here and a patch there but deep underneath is what?  Generally concrete piles and deep foundations all of which push the water table up. That adds to damp in smaller dwellings and older dwellings. SuDS do not address or remedy this.It's yet again another tool to further overdevelopment and those vested interests that lurk. 

Raymond Havelock ● 65d

https://www.local.gov.uk/topics/severe-weather/flooding/sustainable-drainage-systemsWe must all have all seen the terrible effects of some of the sudden heavy and/or long lasting rainfall events.  In the past many rivers were straightened for speed of transport, increase of land and ease of farming etc and now the climate is changing the emphasis is on slowing that flow so rivers are having their wiggles put back in and rain gardens and swales etc being introduced. With bigger new developments this may to the outsider just look like nice landscaping without realising the thought and work that should have gone into designing it. Do have a look at all the SuDS schemes that are being implemented all over the world in efforts to mitigate flooding when there are sudden very heavy rainstorms.

Philippa Bond ● 66d

Blighting of residential areas in London with the acceleration of front gardens being converted in to parking spaces and the negative impact on biodiversity and flood resilience.There are regulations about this and they also include not being allowed to just re-concrete as before - as hard surfaces need to be porous.https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/paving-your-front-garden/planning-permissionI saw one of those electronic advertising boards in Brent being used by their Council to point out that HMOs (Houses in Multiple Occupation) have to be registered with the Council.  A brilliant use for them I thought as the more people who know about some of these regulations the better.

Philippa Bond ● 115d

I've never been good at using the correct words when I write anything and that's why I failed at my GCE English Language 'O' level exam first time round back in the 1950sBut what we are reading on this  thread (and posts on other local media too) seems to suggest "corruption" at the highest level.

Jim Lawes ● 123d

I agree with your last sentence. Such carryings on bring a party and all those who support it - Councillors, party members etc - into disrepute and this is the great pity of it all.

Anne England ● 123d

I think Balraj was conveniently parachuted in because there was a link between his father and the Dear Leader, who relies on his standing in the community in order to keep his elevated position, and I have that from a pretty reliable source. I understand that he didn't want to be a councillor but did it anyway to please Daddy! As for Mr Ellar, it appals and upsets me that people mangle the party rules for their own ends as it reflects on many people who do stand for election for all the right reasons and not just their egos and bank balance. I doubt it is confined just to the Labour party, but I would not, nor cannot, defend these chancers for bringing the party into disrepute, and for that they should all be thrown out.

Vanessa Smith ● 123d

I recall young Jason Ellar (son of Colin Ellar the then leader) being selected for Labour to fight the Syon Ward and then elected at 18 years old and then went to straight to university so was hardly if ever seen again in the Syon WardHe was still made the Labour Chief Whip though to add some more cash to his allowances

Paul Fisher ● 123d

Depends on your definition of untoward. A friendly young man but he had a job in IT I think and spent some time overseas. I do not think he was fit to be a councillor in light of his limited available time and he did seem to be 'parachuted' into Brentford. Bear in mind two new candidates needed to replace Theo Dennison (who had been deselected and was rumoured to be in trouble with the Labour party in Ealing apparently to do with selections - all I have is rumours) and Steve Curran who was standing down for health reasons (RIP).It has become a habit in the LP to decide selection has to be done urgently, and that was the case here. It was probably truly urgent, because when Steve said he was standing down it was a shock to all of us.

Guy Lambert ● 123d

Do you know the mystery surrounding this gentleman Anne?Should we be sympathetic or besuspicious of something untoward?

Jim Lawes ● 123d

I don't think Balraj is that much of a 'young lad'!

Anne England ● 124d

Wouldn't the Labour Councillor Balraj have been waiting on the bench ... ready to play his partin making Hounslow Council some easy money ... if everybody else was too busy on other matters?The Labour Party's Selection Committee failed in  choosing this young lad ... unless they had received strict instructions from above and had no choice!

Jim Lawes ● 124d

Whether or not you happened to buy a house that already has an illegal crossover is really a pretty poor excuse, you are living in it now and breaking the law. You wouldn't tackle a whole borough head on obviously - but one way would be to start where roads were having whole footpath repairs. You should notify every house that is illegally using the footpath to park in the garden, that if they apply for a crossover when the whole works are being carried out - they will get a discount. If they fail to do this then you put a bollard in front of the garden opening to prevent them using it.  Just dismissing this because it seems to require too much of an effort is pretty disgraceful on several levels, and extremely unfair to those people who do the right thing and pay, what a bloody cheek. Seems Hounslow can afford not to bother about a pretty big income stream, thought you were making cuts because you haven't got enough money - what a joke. What exactly do your 'Enforcement' officers enforce these days?

Vanessa Smith ● 124d

I had a thing about that in the previous administration. The only thing I heard of Theo Dennison soing was trying to follow that up in London Road. I went there with him and we met a number of locals. All of them said it was like that when they bought the house 20 years ago. We did hire someone to do this specifically but it is abig borough and there are a lot of wrong uns. It;s a matter that has clearly been ignored by councillors going back years or decades. I decided it would be unfair to these 'offenders' and tried to get them spaces in the nearby CPZs but I doubt anyone followed it up. Not me anyway - not my ward and there are nor enough hours..

Guy Lambert ● 124d