Forum Topic

Dirty Business

I am amazed at the lack of comment, not to say outrage, at the Channel 4 programme this week about the privatisation of our water industry. If you thought Mr. Bates was dreadful - then this reaches even lower lows! If Keir Starmer really wants to do something for all of us and perhaps help keep his job after the next General Election, then re-nationalisation of all our utilities would be a good way to go. Why we have allowed this to go on after Mrs. Thatcher's assurances we should 'wait and see' how it panned out  is a mystery. It became very clear, very quickly this was a licence to print money, and in the process do untold damage to our waterways, seaside, wildlife and ecological systems, not to mention make people very ill and in one case at least, cause the death of a child. As for the despicable people who helped cover it up they are beneath contempt, and have in some cases got themselves cushy little numbers with the very water companies they should have investigated, they must be made to answer for what they did. Thank God we have people with integrity and guts to Whistle-blow, and others who care to work on for years in the face of appalling obfuscation and lies.

Vanessa Smith ● 46d24 Comments

The harsh reality is that many people complained  and reported to Blair’s Labour government and to Labour Cllrs like Vanessa Smith but they refused to listen or to do anything about it.  And then you see in programs like Dirty Business that the Environment Agency was given £millions in funding yet the CEO refused to allow staff to investigate and prosecute guilty water companies. And then he is appointed to the Board of a Water Company. It’s disgraceful!

Paul Tucker ● 5d

Privatisation was such a huge and far reaching project that it isn't surprising that it was difficult to oversee and control it all.  But then that was probably the object of the mission...

Philippa Bond ● 6d

https://dieterhelm.co.uk/publications/the-thames-water-saga-continued-the-leading-bondholders-make-a-last-ditch-effort-to-save-themselves/

Philippa Bond ● 20d

Yes the OP finds it necessary to feign a short memory or perhaps it is just an admission that she didn’t really know what the hell was going on when she was a councillor.  But you are 100% correct - this mess is 100% the fault of Blair’s Labour Party who were made aware of exactly what was going on at Thames Water.  The Labour Party was more than happy to allow it to happen and it did nothing to prevent huge dividends being paid to shareholders long before the MacQuarie Group bough the Company. The massive outflow of profits happened under Blair and Brown when the German RWE Group owned Thames Water. At that time three RWE Directors were reported as being the highest paid  executives of any public company in Europe!

Paul Tucker ● 22d

Sadly this is how short memories can be and how easily it is to erase history.But as I said this mess goes back to the Blair Govt who did nothing to address the mess that privatisation had become from a complete lack of effective watchdogs.And even now, it's still not much better.

Raymond Havelock ● 29d

“It’s easier for you to be critical in retrospect now that so much more experience in investigating and sharing, keeping and finding nformation is possible with social media and computers.  It wasn't at the time”Nothing to do with retrospect. It was what it was and residents knew it and appealed to the Council and Councillors for help. The Labour run Council did nothing and the Labour Cllrs responsible, ran a mile. Fortunately three ICG Councillors took the bull by the horns and solicited the help of three Richmond Councillors, including the deputy mayor who got the Twickenham MP  Dr Vince Cable involved. The ICG also involved an independent Environmental Health Officer as well as an Environmental Scientist and many other specialists who were only too happy to assist residents and confront Thames Water Directors in their boardroom. And now, Smith says she ‘didn’t know’ Thames Water were pumping sewage into the River. What a pathetic excuse. If she’d taken time to listen to constituents or even attended a single Residents Meeting with Thames Water she’d have been fully aware of the Storm Tank overflows and the diversions of raw sewage into the Thames. Everyone gained experience and everyone learned very quickly that Thames Water was an abhorrent company run by particularly despicable individuals. The crunch came when one Director didn’t like what residents told him so he said “if you don’t like how we operate, take us to Court  “So residents did exactly that. And won the case by a mile. Thames Water managers suddenly resigned or got sick during the trial so they couldn’t give evidence. ICG Cllrs gave evidence. The Conservatives sent a spy (a well known Cllr) to attend court every day hoping to see residents lose the case against their privatised bedfellows no doubt. But where was bigmouth Smith? Nowhere to be seen. And so very, very, very angry with her constituents that she didn’t just bow out gracefully, she wrote to the press accusing residents for running off half cocked because they tackled the Water Giant.  What sort of person would do that? Why would an elected Councillor demonstrate such animosity to the people who voted for her? Abhorrent behaviour!  An unforgivable disservice to constituents. PS. I wasn’t talking about the ICG working on, I was thanking heavens that we have people like the ICG Cllrs  and the WASP team, as depicted in the Ch4 documentary, because clearly we cannot rely on Cllrs or elected MPs who are in power.

Paul Tucker ● 30d

I was surprised by the variety and quantities of PFAS "forever chemicals" revealed in local rivers by the open data on the Environment Agency Water Explorer site. Who would have thought that in 2023 the River Crane at Northcote bridge in Isleworth would rank 29th of 630 English locations for the highest sum of PFAS compound concentrations in the "national-scale preliminary overview study of poly- and perfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) occurrence in aquatic environments of England" ? And one suspects the same water flows into the Duke of Northumberland's River and fills up the lakes in Syon Park. For me, the likely cause is historic use of fire-fighting foam at Heathrow (and possibly Northolt) [the Portlane Brook which gets the drainage from the western half of Heathrow's airfield ranked 8th in the country]. Airports and military airports around the world have problems with contaminated water and the Health and Safety Executive has just finished a consultation on severely restricting PFAS foam use on health grounds. It remains to be seen how tough the Environment Agency will be in revising consents allowing the airport to continue discharges.

Tim Henderson ● 30d

Well, there's nothing like re-writing history, and sinking to pathetic name calling to try and make a point. As someone far more gracious than me said 'Recollections may differ'.I'm not quite sure where this person lives but he needs to familiarise himself with the current situation, the ICG was dissolved years ago so cannot 'work on'. And I, and I would guess, also many others had no idea that Thames Water were pumping untreated sewage into our rivers.

Vanessa Smith ● 30d

It's easier for you to be critical in retrospect now that so much more experience in investigating and sharing, keeping and finding nformation is possible with social media and computers.  It wasn't at the time, we relied more on newspapers and word of mouth and attendances at meetings often restricted to who was invited or able to attend.  Many more people now share information in different ways that they wouldn't have done before.  Many people don't know enough to feel they can speak up.  This can be for many reasons including the fear of losing their jobs.I remember the case of a cheese company in the south-west which was polluting the local river.  It was no longer locally owned but overseas owned.  All the workers lived locally to the factory, it provided the only work for whole families in that area so the fesr of unemployment was great amongst employees as was the fear of speaking up.  There is a film about a similar situation in America and the huge effort and difficulties and costs in health and welfare to those just living there as well as anybody who speaks up and is cold-shouldered and abused for doing so by their family and community.  Sadly in Britain we too often have a reputation with turning the other way and voting with our feet.  It is  easier than getting involved.  That makes it difficult to find out where exactly  and what's gone wrong even if you can see the outcome.Here's some interesting information:https://weownit.org.uk/privatisation

Philippa Bond ● 30d

“Unfortunately the o/p has total amnesia of this period as I've witnessed on other anti Tory sentiment. “Oh yes! Vanessa Smith conveniently ignores the fact that when, as a Labour Cllr., her constituents asked her for assistance in confronting Thames Water for acts of mismanagement and negligence. Not only did she refuse to get involved, she wrote to  the Twickenham Times accusing residents of ‘running off half-cocked’ to battle something they could never win. And how wrong was she!!  Too terrified to have (Labour run) Hounslow Council confront Thames Water, she ran for cover leaving residents to fight Thames Water on their own. However, with the help of some ICG Cllrs the residents dragged Thames Water into the High Court of Justice and Thames were found guilty on 18 counts of mismanagement and negligence. So when big mouth Smith now finds the behaviour of Thames Water so outrageous she may wish to reflect upon her own conduct as a Labour Councillor when she could and should have joined residents in the Thames Water boardroom facing the CEO and management and holding them accountable. Not once did big mouth Smith attend a single meeting with Thames Water despite the fact that she knew they were pumping millions of litres of raw untreated sewage into the river on her doorstep. Thank God we have people with integrity and guts like the ICG and others who care to work on for years in the face of appalling obfuscation and lies. Thank God we no longer have to rely on Labour Cllrs like her.

Paul Tucker ● 33d

It has traditionally been the role of the Greens to ask difficult questions such has why our privatised water industry has seen such a large rise in bills coincide with a period of chronic under investment in infrastructure.However, now they are on the cusp of some sort of role in government they have to answer difficult questions such as how will you fund a nationalised water industry, bring the network up to standard and keep bills low at a time when government borrowing is severely restricted by the already high level of national debt?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 33d

The Greens offer a home for con artists who can draw stipends, be it from Councils or the House of Commons, for never having to take responsibility for anything because they will NEVER have any power. They are a joke with their ridiculous manifesto which they would never ever be able to accomplish. They elected a ridiculous ‘Leader’ who doesn’t even have a seat in parliament!!

Paul Tucker ● 34d

Seems par for the course with modern Greens. School playground politics with very little understanding of the real world. Polanski is just the left cheek of the Farage backside.Brentford’s mob seems to mainly comprise a geriatric boys club, led by Jon Elkon who is really a South African agitator. What’s amusing is how thin skinned they are when challenged on their fantasy policies (to be funded by a wealth tax, despite the very wealthy having been removing their money and themselves from the UK since July 2024). Aggressive and patronising is the default response, pretty standard for hard left socialists with all the answers.Abolishing private landlords is a key pledge. If you think finding somewhere to rent is hard and expensive now, wait until that happens.They will also stop you having a private vehicle, unless you are in the politburo like Guy Lambert. Not sure they understand how Uber ownership works then.All these grand plans have to be paid for, so inevitably it will be massive tax increases for the squeezed middle.

Simon Hayes ● 35d

Zak Polanski or whatebver his real name is comes across to me as a student who has yet to grow up and enter the real world.With apologies to students everywhere.

Keith Iddon ● 35d

The Green Party manifesto is an absolute hoot, albeit unintended.Labour’s 2024 manifesto was based on uncosted wishes, everything paid for out of closing non-dom loopholes and putting VAT on private school fees which turned out to mean punitive taxation on everyone and still not covering the costs. Of course, champagne socialist Lamvett was hugely enthusiastic about that at the time.The Greens not only want to nationalise everything (although Labour is doing the railways already) but have no inkling of the costs of doing so or say how things will be run. Remember British Rail? Butt of all jokes back in the day. Now we have a situation where the railways are so union dominated that drivers are paid ridiculous amounts in what is effectively a closed shop. It’s why trains are frequently cancelled at the last minute, while overtime is charged at £500 a shift. How’s that going to change?Luckily the Greens are planting a whole forest of magic money trees.

Simon Hayes ● 35d

It sounds so simple but I bet it isn't unfortunately.  However I would just love it if we didn't have to faff around spending precious time choosing energy companies just because it has to be competitive.  But then just look at what happened to the monopoly of water - it just makes you want to cry.  We definitely shouldn't have lost control of that and allowed it  to be sold overseas as one of Mrs Thatcher's experiments (see the programme).

Philippa Bond ● 35d

Well, I can help you resolve this scandal.From the 2024 Green Party manifesto:"We commit to immediately bringing the railways,the water companies and the Big 5 retailenergy companies back into public ownership".

Guy Lambert ● 38d

It is difficult to appreciate and comprehend the seriousness and depth of the situation without a programme like this - just as people couldn't really get their heads around and believe the Post Office issue. Sticking heads in the sand now that more information has come to light is reprehensible:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d769npejoYes, that's the BBC writing about this Channel 4 programme.

Philippa Bond ● 38d

Luckily those hard working councillors are getting more from your contributions.Be thankful they aren’t skimming as much off the top as their Ealing counterparts. Sneaky Pete Mason pockets £74,000 a year for doing nothing apart from fronting Facebook videos boasting about his very modest ‘achievements’.

Simon Hayes ● 39d

I’m more angry about my Council tax rising 5% each year and receiving less and less for that rise.

David Cook ● 39d

Good point Raymond. Unfortunately the o/p has total amnesia of this period as I've witnessed on other anti Tory sentiment. Unfortunately the dirty business is that she clogs up at least 2 forums with it.

Richard Schofield ● 40d

We have seen the fights that local people have had to get any action when they can see and smell that there is a problem.I remember the documentaries about Thames Water showing the problems the workers were having in keeping the aging and run down infrastructure going.  This of course can be made worse when if any building has to go to planning residents decide to object to anything happening - but then how does necessary infrastructure get tackled when it needs to be?  It is obviously easier not to tackle it and to just take the profits which go to distant owners which expect them as a result of their investment.  To then have a hierarchy that ignores and denies and covers up any problems and leaves the workers on site to try and deal with deteriorating and impossible situation is diabolical and demoralising.Please don't be lily-livered and turn a blind eye but make a point to watch this programme.  The situation needs facing up to and improving and not putting off because it is too difficult:If you copy and paste this link to read the real story behind this programme you will find a direct link to the programme.https://www.sas.org.uk/updates/dirty-business-real-people-sewage-drama/

Philippa Bond ● 40d

Sadly this was more than apparent and reported in newspapers and to a lesser degree on TV even when the Blair Govt was in power.Action should have happened then and I think that had the Gulf War and other overseas sideshows not distracted Blair, this would have been tackled.It's rumbled on since and now is a real disgrace . OFWAT like most of these organisations are inept and weak and suffer the wrong people on boards and chairing. To easily influenced by politicians on one side and big business on the other.

Raymond Havelock ● 46d

Quite right. If someone hungry shoplifts £50 that's a terrible crime, but looting millions from water consumers (everyone) because someone gave you a monopoly on the cheap is just 'boys will be boys, and do invite me onto your yacht'.

Eric Baker ● 46d