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St George's Church (aka Piano Museum) appeal to demolish has arrived

We successfully encouraged Hounslow Council SDC 14-Dec-04 to refuse a planning application to demolish St George's Church and replace it with 19 apartments.The developer appealed and the date has been set Wednesday 19th April at Lampton Road.I urge you all to see the image on the page on our web site here:http://www.hollandgardens.org/news_detail.cfm?ID=233and also vote on the survey on the bottom left of the menu.If you want more information on the church click through via the red link to the left of the image of what is proposed to see some other detail.Time to rally people...

Stephen Browne ● 7547d50 Comments

Thanks for this, lets keep the battle rolling on.This church must be saved.

Neil Chippendale ● 7547d

I worked for Barratt the developer of Capital West and apartments were sold with the understanding that the Museum would be moving but that the church would remain as part of it was listed. People bought apartments thinking that they would have a view of this old attractive building.

Marion Watkinson ● 7543d

I remember being shocked when I heard the building was to go but my recollection was that it was always part of the deal that the site would be redeveloped. Wasn't that the price for the development of the new museum?

Justin Harris ● 7543d

No. Capital West paid for the new music museum building via section 106 contributions and it was to be fitted out from section 106 contributions from the Thames Water site next door. Trouble is the Thames Water site has not been decommissioned as yet and that held things up. Music Museum secured lottery funding (and good luck to them for doing so) and refitting will be completed in May.As for the original plans - Barratt submitted plans to demolish and replace with a restaurant and/or community use building but chose to withdraw the plans. We, as residents in Capital West, would suggest it was they could achieve better prices for the apartments - a considerable number ofg us asked what was happening to the church only to be told "don't know" by the Barratt sales people, because that was the status st the time. Coincidentally at the end of the sales of apartments here Barratt start telling everyone they have bought the church.St Georges Church is owned and managed by Church Commissioners of the Dioceses of London. Ownership will ONLY transfer to Barratt on succesful planning application to demolish etc etc.

Stephen Browne ● 7543d

Highlighted in Letters to the Editor this week's BC&I Times.Strangely another article in the same edition about a 'lost graveyard' being found by a working church in Hanworth Park. We found a graveyard under St George's but authorities seem to want to ignore it.

Stephen Browne ● 7525d

I have voted....have you?Don't leave it to others: if you think it's a good idea to protest against the demolition, please say so.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7523d

Yes but there were other issues such as the museum needing more space and the church needing renovation work. Part of it is listed but only a small part which I think was a tiny chapel daating back to an earlier time. The main part of the church is not so old.As Brentford has lost so many of its old buildings through local apathy please galvanise the local residents to write in to Hounslow to protest.

Marion Watkinson ● 7518d

>>please galvanise the local residents to write in to Hounslow to protest.It's worth pointing out that Hounslow councillors (of all political shades) said that the Barratt proposals should be rejected. The developers are now appealing against this decision. Hounslow planning officers will defend the decision, Barratt's legal folks will say why, in planning terms, it was a wrong decision, and the inspector goes away and makes his/her mind up.

Matt Harmer ● 7517d

As we approach the appeal date I am copying my submission printed in Letters to The Editor, Brentford Chiswick & Isleworth Times 31-Mar-2006. ========Dear Sir The rejection of the Kew Bridge (Scottish Widows) planning application demonstrates a thorough, coordinated and determined effort by the citizens of Brentford will result in common sense prevailing. Congratulations to us all for not rolling onto our backs and taking it from another developer determined to get their way, motivated solely by profit margins with no consideration to the planning process, guidelines, policies and procedures laid down by local and central government. We should not only be insulted by the absolute disregard of local people by the developers but also send them an invoice for the time it has taken us all to reach this point. But whilst we bath in the euphoria of this result we find ourselves scrubbing up for the next challenge. Some 500 yards down the road lies St Georges Church. Just on 15 months ago the Hounslow Council Sustainable Development Committee refused an application by another of our well known developers to demolish the church, albeit leaving the tower standing, and replace it with apartments. A considerable many of the local residents gathered enough information and momentum to halt this plan to pillage Brentford of one of it's few remaining historic buildings - indeed noted as a landmark in the Council Unitary Development Plan. But the profiteers are a determined bunch, and appeal they did. So now we find not only do we have to substantiate our right to have this historic building left standing, but the council has to justify it's own decision and spend time and (our public) resources at a hearing simply because the developer has thrown their toys out of the pram. The plan was (is) to demolish St George's Church and replace it with a mere 19 apartments, and Brentford is in such desperate need of apartments that this piece of history will not get in their way. There is to be a hearing open to the public 19 April 2006 at the Council offices. We are not about to let this one go so easily either, have submitted our case and shall attend the hearing to continue the fight to keep the church standing. I urge your attendance and would appreciate you letting me know you will be coming as well as a gauge of numbers. If you could email me at secretary@hollandgardens.org to either indicate attendance or your abhorrence at the plan then please do so. If you have Internet access please also express your opinion via a one question poll on our web site (http://www.hollandgardens.org just under the left menu). You can also read a considerable amount about the church there as well.

Stephen Browne ● 7511d

As we approach the appeal date I am copying my submission printed in the Nostalgia section, Brentford Chiswick & Isleworth Times 7-Apr-2006. ========- 1762 - George's chapel was founded as an unconsecrated chapelry by 57 prominent residents of Old Brentford for their own use. Brentford Past by Gillain Clegg - 1766 - A brick building was put up on the site designed by John Joshua Kirby, the father of Mrs Sarah Trimmer. Although the chapel was the private property of the shareholders it was licensed for Divine Service in connection with the Church of England. Brentford Past by Gillain Clegg - 1786 - The Green School is founded by Mrs Sarah Trimmer. Page 31, The Life and Works of Sarah Trimmer by D.M. Yarde, The Hounslow and District History Society This building is known as the Grade II listed St George's Church Hall. Department of the Environment List of Buildings of Special Architectural or Historic Interest, London Borough of Hounslow. - 1828 - The building is consecrated as St George's Church when it became a separate ecclesiastical district. Brentford Past by Gillain Clegg - 1840 - Thomas Layton, later benefactor of the church tower, becomes a churchwarden at St George's Church. Page 18, Brentford & Chiswick Local History journal, Number 9 - 1861 - The first church is closed to burials, which are now undertaken at Ealing and Old Brentford Cemetary, South Ealing Road. - 1885 - Faculty document signed to demolish the original church and replace it with the current building on the same site. To review a transcription of the document go here (http://www.hollandgardens.org/ContentImages/St_Georges_Church_Transcription_London_Metropolitan_Archives_Document.pdf). Document DRO/59/50/2 London Metropolitan Archives - 1886 - The first church demolished and work begins on consruction of the current building.  - 1887 - The second and current St George's church, built to a design of A.W. Blomfield with seating for 600 and without a tower, is completed. Page 29, Brentford, The Archive Photographs Series by Carolyn and Peter Hammond - 1913 - The tower is added. This was partially paid for from the £1000 left left for a peal of bells by a parishioner, Thomas Layton (1819-1911), previously the chairman of Brentford Local Board and later of Brentford Urban District Council. It was originally intended that the tower should be surmounted by a spire but this was never built. Page 29, Brentford, The Archive Photographs Series by Carolyn and Peter Hammond - 1959 - St George's closed as a parish church. Page 30, Brentford, The Archive Photographs Series by Carolyn and Peter Hammond - 1961 - St Paul's Brentford becomes the principal church in the area, St George's and St Lawrence churches become redundant. The Last Supper by local painter Johann Zoffany is moved from St George's to St Pauls. - 1963 - St George's begins its use as a museum for mechanical musical instruments. Page 30, Brentford, The Archive Photographs Series by Carolyn and Peter Hammond - 2004 - Application submitted to demolish- 2004 Dec - Application refused by SDC- 2005 - appeal by developer- 2006 April 19 10:00 appeal hearing at Hounslow Council offices

Stephen Browne ● 7510d

I will just add that the more people who can attend, the better. Even saying nothing, the turn-out indicates to the Inspector just what the strength of public interest & opinion is.

Nigel Moore ● 7509d

Has anyone got the email address of the person I would need to contact to voice my protest.Or is it via LBH.

Neil Chippendale ● 7509d

Any time limits to get protests into the Inspectorate will have passed, but Inspectors usually allow late submissions during the Inquiry.Why not email your letter to Stephen, and if the Holland Garden Residents Assoc. have registered as a Rule 6 Party, they can ask for it to be taken into consideration on the day. Otherwise he can ask the Council to do so.

Nigel Moore ● 7509d

We most certainly registered our desire to make statements at the hearing some 13 months ago when the appeal deadline was met, but in the recent paperwork it stated anyone could register their desire to comment on the day of the hearing. Nonetheless if you can't attend and wish to add your comments send them through to secretary@hollandgardens.orgAlso please have alook at St George's Church content on our web site:www.hollandgardens.orgMany thanksStephen BrowneSecretary, Holland Gardens Residents Community

Stephen Browne ● 7509d

The last of my series of three articles in the Brentford Chiswick & Isleworth Times - this one in Letters to the Editor 14-Apr-2006. My appreciation to Chris Briddon for running the articles in the newspaper to help get this subject exposure.========Dear Sir Following on from my comments in Letters to the Editor (31/03/06) regarding the Kew Bridge and St George's Church sites going to appeals because the developers don't get their way, it occurred to me that the general change in attitudes towards conservation and heritage being felt more and more across the nation is not reflected in the board rooms of the developers. They simply argue that land is land, and building targets set down by central government must be met. To that end the significance of a heritage site or historic building is just not considered in the slightest - they are just 'issues that need to be overcome' during their progress to a successful planning application. In other industries across the land and indeed the world we have seen considerable change in attitude, with banks, oil companies and credit card companies all running for the moral high ground taking their shareholders along with them. These companies have come to realise that no matter how big, they can suffer on the bottom line when practices society are no longer comfortable with are let to continue. When was the last time you saw a large building developer donating something to the community, other than when it had to via Section 106 contributions as a way to get their planning applications passed? We have large (non-developer) multinationals already in or moving in to Brentford making contributions to the area above their requirement, some measuring many hundreds of thousands of pounds in benefits to improve the area not only for their own employees but all other Brentford citizens as well. But the developers only make donations to political parties around election time. What a wonderful display of social and community spirit it would be, if the developer who has appealed against the council decision to refuse their application to demolish St George's Church for a paltry 19 apartments, cancelled their appeal and stopped wasting the community's time and money. This very developer has made considerable profit from Brentford by way of the 1500+ apartments they have been allowed to build or will build in the near future. Millions and millions of pounds. But not enough - St George's Church can't get in the way of more profit. No, I'm afraid in the days of Corporate Social Responsibility property developers will not be found high in the list of who's who.

Stephen Browne ● 7509d

Congratulations to all those who worked so hard to preserve the church, Stephen foremost amongst them. The Appeal decision arrived this morning, and the Appeal has been dismissed.The third party representations convinced the Inspector  that the building was held in affection by the local community. He concluded that the building makes a positive contribution to the character of the area and one that is worthy of protection.

Nigel Moore ● 7479d

Thanks Nigel,This is a great victory for the people of the area. A well thought and fought campaign against a greedy developer who had no interest in the history of the town.Ps Just bought some documents signed by the vicar of the church dated c1910, the father in law of mrs Robert Henrey.

Neil Chippendale ● 7479d

Wonderful news!  Proves yet again that if enough people protest about anything they can bring about change.Absolutely delighted.

Ann S. Allridge ● 7479d

Hooray. Really good news.and I wish to join in the celebrations.The sight of those people knocking down the older part of the Church Building would have brought tears and anger to many. Well done Stephen and all the other people involved.

Jim Lawes ● 7479d

What I'd like to know is how the developer really thought they'd get any flats on that site anyway without severely upsetting the people in the flats all round it.Doesn't make sense, the right to daylight and privacy of all considered would be unaccepetably compromised when considering the proposals.I mean would any of you want to live there? I know I wouldn't.Congratulations to everyone who shot this down.

Conal Stewart ● 7479d

One of the more unexpected (for all except the existing residents), things that emerged during the site inspection in the course of the Inquiry, was how much the developers had shot themselves in the foot with the initial buildings.Having created a new road and public access behind the church, with a view to this being extended eastward in future development,a whole new publicly accessible vista of the rear of the church was made available, and in many respects this is even more attractive than the High St frontage.Let alone the Inspector, even the planning officers were struck with this hitherto unexpected aspect!Just goes to show how important it is that the Planning department personnel are made fully aware of the reality of the sites they deal with, through personal visits.A related aspect arising from the Inquiry which I should have been more prepared for, - the Inspector wanted to know whether a boat trip had been laid on! I did say that that could be arranged with forewarning, but this Inquiry was too time-limited unfortunately.I'm trying to persuade the Council that they must have the people concerned with the Commerce Road Inquiry take a trip with me up the canal, to observe the site and proposed alternative freight depots from the water.

Nigel Moore ● 7479d

Well done to all those involved.

Alan Sheerins ● 7479d

Nigel,A boat trip would be a great idea. Those Art Deco buildings need to be saved. Its a shame not many people know of thier existance.

Neil Chippendale ● 7478d

Neil, a couple of days ago I accompanied the Council surveyors on a brief site visit, prior to their doing a survey of the buildings on the application site. Seems there is considerable discrepancy on floor space estimations between the Council's figures and those of ISIS!We got to see inside the covered warehouses for photos, which was my interest, plus a couple of the art deco ones. They are rather fine, but I doubt if the Council are too bothered frankly, so long as the industrial use is retained for the site as a whole.A pity, they seem in good nick with no earthly reason why they should not be utilised efficiently for their original purpose.

Nigel Moore ● 7478d

Nigel.  Vision - oh heck - can't you just see it - the deco buildings all restrict the growth in height of the site so once knocked down the next buildings can go in and then in a few years be knocked down and replaced with a few sky scrapers?  Brentford is heading to be skyscraper city.  Soon they will want your mooring space 'cause you will be in the way of progress ...  :-(Congrats to all in saving the church!  Well done!

Sarah Felstead ● 7478d

Sarah, they've been wanting my mooring space for years, and it's several years now since the BW chairman assured me that they had no desire to obstruct such "progress"!As for the sky scrapers on Commerce Road, the drawing have been on the board for well over a year. If ISIS get their way at the forthcoming Inquiry, those penthouses on the Island development will be craning their necks looking up at their opposite new neighbours! The proposed buildings reach 15 stories at the northern end.I haven't learned the posting pictures trick, so I might see if I can send you one direct.I'm pleased that the Council have been prepared to brave the constant threat of expensive appeals in at least some of the recent applications. With the community's help, we've won a couple of them, with the Kew Bridge site being perhaps the most notable.A lesson to be learnt from the recent successes, is that it seems highly unlikely that these would have been won without the strenuous local input. It does show that we CAN make the necessary difference when presenting a united front.

Nigel Moore ● 7478d

"It does show that we CAN make the necessary difference when presenting a united front."The old Isleworth & Brentford Committee did a grand job in opposing a house development here and we have been told that their thoughts in the decision making process will really count at the appeal and not be lost.This is really nice to know as so many of the processes seem to be repeated with information being lost when this happens.  A great deal of time and effort has gone in by the committee to make the decision in the first place.Can the Council claim back funding for expenses for these appeals?Looking forward to seeing your picture!  ... everyone else will be soooow jealous that I got one  ;-)

Sarah Felstead ● 7478d

Sarah Felstead ● 7478d

>> it seems highly unlikely that these would have been won without the strenuous local input.Exactly! I can't state enough how much our (residents) efforts contributed greatly to saving St George's Church. Research, research and more research. Accumulate the facts, present them time and time again, and somewhere in the mix they will be taken notice of.It surprised me how we had to remind councilors and council officers of the detail of such documents such as the UDP and BAAP which invariably assisted in the final decisions. Unfortunately the council officers are so overworked with the amount of applications going through Brentford they can not attribute as much time as required to the subtle nuances that these applications require. These developments are going to end up on your doorstep, and if you want to influence the very nature of them, get the facts and get them on the right desks. It’s the only way. During the recent appeal for St George’s Church I stated there was more and more reference to the church on the Internet. The Inspector just said ‘I don’t have the Internet here.’So, again, research, facts, on the right desks. It just won’t do to vent opinion on web site chat rooms alone.

Stephen Browne ● 7478d

Well said, People must send in submissions backed up with facts, Its the only way. Keep the pressure up.

Neil Chippendale ● 7478d

To be helpful ..I've (hopefully) reduced the size of Nigel's picture to get another view...it all looks like a holiday resort!! 

Jim Lawes ● 7476d

Thats a very good idea Mr!I have to say I have used boat trips on canals before to give an inspector a subtle nudge in the right direction.

Conal Stewart ● 7476d

Well done every one over the appeal. I met the Council planners at the recent open day at St Pauls Church where I explained that I work freelance selling new build property and have worked for St George and for Barratts. There has been so much development in Brentford that prices have been dropping for apartments. What the local residents need are family houses and that apartments are now over supplied. Remember this if you have to fight any more high density plans. Meanwhile I have to travel further afield to find work eg Reading and Camberley. I also suggested that something smaller might be encouraged for the town centre shopping re-development with a sympathetic land owner. Perhaps we could encourage an Arcade leading to a mix of attractive specialist units?

Marion Watkinson ● 7476d

Excellent suggestion Marion. I've been trying to find time to draw up alternative suggestions for South of the High Street that incorporate just such an idea as the arcades you mention. Fact is, there still exist at least two and potentially 3 of the "yards" that ran from the High Street to the Brent, and these would offer the ideal opportunity for incorporating this idea within the ancient street patterns.

Nigel Moore ● 7476d

For those who would like to read the Planning Inspectors decision in full you can read it online here:http://www.hollandgardens.org/news_detail.cfm?ID=240or download the pdf from the Home page article on the right of the page here:http://www.brentfordcc.org.uk/

Stephen Browne ● 7475d

I can't seem to find anything about the fate of this church post 2006 - can anyone let me know what the latest situation is?

Tony Whyte ● 6318d

TonyA planning application to convert the buildings into 14 residences (mixed apartments, houses) has been before the Isleworth & Brentford Area Committee for comment and is expected to come up before the Hounslow Sustainable Development Committee (SDC) next month.After fighting a nearly 3 year campaign to keep it standing we very much welcome this redevlopment proposal because it is very sympathetic to the current structures - ie keeps most intact.To that end the Holland Gardens Residents Community have endorsed the proposal and hope it gets approved. Other alternatives are not very pleasant and as time goes on the building will of course deteriorate further.We would all prefer the building was pressed into some community use, but finances aside the location is against it due to parking constraints in the area.So watch this space - I shall report back after the decision has been made at the SDC.

Stephen Browne ● 6318d

In short, nothing has changed and the church has been unoccupied now for a good couple of years.A planning application (ref. 00607/367-389/P11) was submitted to the Council last June for the conversion of both the church and the listed Sarah Trimmer Hall to 14 residential units.  This application was reported to IBAC for comment on 19th March 2009.  Since then, the application has neither been determined (i.e. refused) under delegated powers or been referred to SDC for a final decision.  No idea what's going on with the application to be honest - Stephen (both him and I live in Holland Gardens) will know more I am sure.

Adam Beamish ● 6318d

And there you go, Stephen was updating you at the same time.I don't personally like the scheme (and I'm a member of the Residents Association), but openly admit it's purely a case of nimbyism - just wish we could demolish the hideous Travelodge and the new Music Museum !.

Adam Beamish ● 6318d

>> just wish we could demolish the hideous Travelodge and the new Music Museum !Agreed - major caveat we don't include the contents of the latter !

Stephen Browne ● 6318d

St George's Church is a wonderful building.  For those of you who have not seen the 'flip' side of it I recommend that you take the 'walk' behind the Travelodge through the Holland Gardens site to view it.  It's a much better sight than the non-descript boxes that Barrett want to build.

Eileen Henderson ● 6304d

Yes do all come down and have a look down Chapel Lane !Furthermore I have great pleasure in announcing that at tonights SDC meeting the committee approved the redevlopment of St George's Church and Sarah Trimmer Hall into 14 residences.It is a VERY sympathetic redevlopment that changes not very much from the current form.This ensures that these two historic landmarks buildings will now remain as part of Brentfords previous and future history.A triumph of common sense !

Stephen Browne ● 6304d

That's wonderful!Have you got pictures of the intended redevelopment?

Kath Richardson ● 6304d

I haven’t seen the plans for the conversion so will have to take Stephen’s word that it is sympathetic to the original structure.My Grand Parents were married at St Georges on Christmas Day 1919  Well done to the people who have campaigned to have the Church kept for all to see 

Paul Allen ● 6304d

Finally a win for heritage. Well done to everyone.

Neil Chippendale ● 6304d

Excellent news. Dreadful to think of it being demolished.Hooray for Brentford.

Jim Lawes ● 6304d

Great news indeed. I used to go to Sunday School in that little hall. Well done to all for your hard work.

Audrey Walton ● 6304d

As a tribute to the building being saved I have put up a website devoted just to St George's Church.The site will become our new website but for the time being lets just indulge ourselves in some of Brentford history that is no longer going away.Image library includes a recent internal shoot by local professional photographer Peter Hughes for the Brentford & Chiswick Local History Society.Enjoy folks !Tribute to St George's Church Brentford

Stephen Browne ● 6294d

Robert A Field ● 6293d

interesting comments made about the church i used to live in disterllery  walk, i had to put up with the noise of holland gardens being put up i know council place but feel the love  my mum dad married in that church dad regrets it but hey ho,my grandparents old brentford,so holland gardens you to new to comment about brentford or to snobbish

Robert A Field ● 6293d