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Philip:What a story..about crime on the High Street!! Thanks for taking the trouble to type all that out..and thus enabling readers to have a better idea of what's going on.I'm not an expert on these matters but just an interested party to the Puzzle...that is Brentford.What I mean is that I have lived in the area for over 60 years and am intrigued by the question of how a solution can be found to help Brentford to be cleaned up..and rejuvenated. Many of the local scenes remind me of the state of London in the 1940's and 50's after the bombs had dropped!  Look at the wrecks on the Great West Road for starters!But the crime aspect... "the never ending cycle of burglaries that you report" ... calls for action. The reality of Policing in Brentford requires a new thread on this Forum...as your experiencies,to me,don't sound too re-assuring. If you had time..on this Police issue...you or your colleagues perhaps should be hounding your new Councillors, you should be attending the Isleworth & Brentford Area Committee when the Police are occasionally there to give their Report and take questions..or even..if the High Street Traders got together..or just you alone..attended the Borough Police Consultative Group Meeting at the Civic Centre (and elsewhere) where you have a chance to ask questions ..and also have a chance to speak to Local Police Chiefs.  One fears that they are plagued with shortages of staff, knee deep in paper work...and tied up sadly with National Issues!Your contribution to this redevelopement topic is most helpful..because ideas of small shopping yards or lanes off the High Street would be a non goer if the fear of crime was too too great.  My local bank branch closed some years back because the staff couldn't stand the regular horror of cash robberies by daytime visitors. Criminals are a pain...but their continued presence in the area must be taken into account.

Jim Lawes ● 7000d

Hi Jim,I am one of the traders on the south side and I am not waiting a pay day. I along with others have no prospect of a pay day as we are on short term rental leases. There are no plans for compensating people like me and no help available for the resettlement of our businesses from the council or developers. As for the terminal decline this has not been helped by the disinterest of the local police in solving the never ending cycle of burglaries that have been effecting the businesses in the area and the main reason the shops are empty or doing badly nobody is going to invest in an area who's police force are not interested in apprehending those responsible. I have no doubt that many of the more established names on this site will be hovering over their keyboards to dispute this statement. Before replying they should consider this. Last year I popped up to my shop on a Sunday morning I am usually closed on a Sunday. On arrival I found that one of the locks had been broken off and the other was only just attached, requiring on the smallest of effort with the minimum of noise to remove it fully. It was plainly obvious that who ever was responsible was planning to come back and finish the job. The Police were called but did not respond not even when informed that preparation work to facilitate an easy entry for that night. I spoke to the police three times that day without any real interest being shown the last call was as I locked myself into the pitch black shop to wait for the burglars myself (not the Happiest or safest feeling of my life for sure. At around 2.30am am the Monday I hear my shutters go up and I can hear the voices of three people who begin to kick the door in, I phone the police whilst I wait preparing myself for what could well be a very violent situation As the burglars enter the shop I get of two photos using the flash on my camera, the burglars head for the door and I grapple with the last one out and give him a bloody if not broken nose he however gets away under the shutter just as the police arrive. All three burglars escape on to the island estate behind the High Street. I like everyone reading this would at this point think 'at least you have the photo's', these were dutifully handed over to the Police as we can't take these matters into our own hands can we (unless of course you wish not to be robbed and Risk death or serious injury to protect your goods when the powers that be won't). Some seven months later after quite a few  inquiries/complaints the police finely developed the photos claiming that the London bombing had taken all police resources and the burglary of my shop was not a priority (good news for all the shops on the High Street) Meanwhile My own enquires provided me with the names of the three burglars and assurances that these three people were responsible for most of the High Street break ins on the High Street during the Previous three years the police showed little or no interest in these names and when the Photos were developed there was only one picture of use and it seemed to be of one of the people named, I understand he was interviewed but I was never informed about the conclusionI guess he was never charged. I would like to Point out that the names were given to me by more than one source so I don't doubt the truth of the information and have seen the three people named, since then and they were the three in my shop. These events were shortly after the High Street lost its Florist, who was forced off of the high Street after yet another break in at her shop almost ruined her. A period of relative calm followed the events at my shop Perhaps the burglars took some time to recover their confidence but the fact that one of them possibly the ring leader went away for other offences also played its part, I notice that the High Street shops are again being targeted and the fact that this person was out on licence when the last lot of attempted burglary and the successful one at the Charity Shop by the court was carried out will no doubt escape the police notice. One can't help wondering whether this is incompetents, simple neglect of duty, or perhaps a deliberate policy to help developers sweep away all us deadwood businesses in favour of a High street devoid of diversity and full of all those boring bland but infinitely more wealthy conglomerate shops we find in all the characterless High Street devolvement around the Country at the moment. If any other High Street business wants to know who is responsible for the state of the High Street (other than the police and local authority who deserve a great deal of the blame) please get in touch I would be more than happy to pass on their details.Before anyone considers questioning my position on the development as well they may, I do after all live in Chiswick and only run a business in the area, I feel I should put this  My grand parents moved to Chiswick in 1937, My parents and eldest brother moved to Brentford shortly after. Eight of my brothers and sisters were born whilst my family were living down Hawthorn Hatch on the Syon Estate. Only I and one other brother were born in Chiswick. Four sets of cousins also lived in Brentford and at least two generations still do. When my family moved here it was a busy town the min market town of Middlesex my eldest brother trained iv the areas one time thriving boat yards, now the area is stagnating and directionless the new developments mimic the south bank but without the art or culture and are often referred to as the places the rich folk are going to live. This does not bode well for the future of the area.

Philip Walsh ● 7001d

Referring to your first post of the 20th Jim, I would have to answer your question as to whether we should agree to the Nth side development so long as the Sth side was kept sympathetic, with a resounding NO.What has been built so far is an extraordinary mixture of styles, some appropriate and others decidedly not.I would not criticise the architecture of the Island development in isolation.  Built in a more appropriate environment it would doubtless have merit. It is however an entirely alien style here, in contradiction of all planning guidance for our waterways.The Nth High St and Brentford Lock buildings on the other hand, while grossly over scale and crowding the water’s edge, are modern while containing architectural motifs  reflecting many elements of the High Street’s historical buildings. Further development along here would do well to follow this styling lead.The cheap and nasty Holiday Inn horror I shall not comment on.The main question for the Council however, with which I am in agreement, is the loss of an industrial use site to yet another housing-led mixed development.Despite Mr Jackson’s assertions, the existence of industrial employment areas within Brentford is an essential component of the Town’s success still, providing local employment in genuinely useful areas other than the ubiquitous retail.So far as those new inhabitants of the Island flats are concerned, how will they feel about their proposed new view? Even the penthouses will be craning their necks to look up at the new flats opposite as I have noted, and from speaking to one of the salespersons while those were being marketed, I am assured that any hint of this proposal was kept dark.Then again, what are the opinions of the Syon estate houses on the other side of the old embankment? Are they aware that from having a backdrop of nature reserve, they would be “treated” to a view of a looming tower of Benidorm style flats overlooking their previously private back gardens? It would be good to hear of their views on the matter, they are the ones who would be most affected on a 24 hour basis.Then again, there has been a lot of complaint, with reason, over congestion on the High Street. What do you think the impact on that would be, with nearly a thousand extra vehicles from the new scheme entering the equation?I don’t believe it is a question of bargaining for the benefit of one area at the cost of another. The planning considerations must enhance the Town both practically and visually for all of it.

Nigel Moore ● 7001d

And several years later, with the separate BW plan for the waterside being put in, EH wrote again on 12 June, 2003:THE BRENTFORD TOWN CENTRE WATERSIDE STRATEGY AND PROPOSED COMPREHENSIVE REDEVELOPMENT OF LAND TO THE SOUTH OF THE HIGH STREET, BRENTFORDThank you for your letter of 3 May, attaching a copy of the application for full planning permission (and supporting documentation, including British Waterways’ Brentford Town Centre Waterside Strategy) submitted by Brentford Town Centre Ltd. for development along The Grand Union Canal/River Brent within the designated conservation area and adjacent to the land south of the High Street development site, and inviting our comments.We understand that procedural anomalies arise in relation to the application in that owners of land directly affected by the proposals have not been formally notified under Article 7. We assume that your Council will be securing the resolution of this matter.We note that the scheme relates to and arguably depends upon the proposed redevelopment of the land between the canal/river and the High Street for which the outline planning permission remains to be issued, despite your Council’s decision to approve the proposals back in January 2001. We note, too that before that scheme can be implemented, further significant site acquisition will be required and that variations may arise in its detailed design (to be the subject of reserved matter submissions). Accordingly, we are concerned that in considering and determining this application, the Council should have full regard to the issues raised in our formal submission (of 17October, 2000) relating to the proposed development of the adjacent site.Whilst welcoming measures to strengthen the established role and enhance the existing character of this most valuable stretch of the Grand Union Canal, we are concerned that from an initial assessment of the proposals set out in this application, the scheme as presently devised, could result in the displacement of some long-established boat-building/repairing activity and slipway, mooring and dockside marine service facilities. We would value the opportunity of discussing with your officers and the applicants’ agents, detailed aspects of the scheme, with a view to securing assurance that the overall scheme will serve the best interests of this much valued part of Brentford. We will write again about the proposals, in the light of such discussions and clarification of the inter-relationship between the waterside proposals and the redevelopment proposals to the north.”………………………………………….“Secondly, despite our serious reservations about the scheme for which your Council was minded to grant outline planning permission in January, 2001, subject to the satisfactory conclusion of a legal agreement (see the copy of our letter to the Head of Development Control of 17 October, 2000, attached) we would value involvement in discussion about the detailed resolution of the scheme (i.e. the reserved matters relating to the urban design and conservation aspects) as and when such material has been prepared, particularly insofar as it will relate to that part of the development site included within or adjacent to the area which your Council has wisely designated as an extension to the conservation area.Thirdly, we would confirm our understanding that conservation area consent will be required for the demolition of various unlisted buildings and structures on the development site, now included within the conservation area and that we will be formally consulted as and when the relevant applications are submitted.Finally, given our understanding that once the Section 106 is signed, the applicants will take forward negotiations with prospective development partners, and that this may lead to significant changes in the scheme, and given that the applicants still do not have control over significant parts of the site, we would urge that the issues that we set out fully and clearly in our letter of 17 October, 2000, be taken into account in further discussions, given their continuing relevance and our hope that the regeneration of this part of Brentford might still be delivered through a scheme offering significantly greater benefits than those discernible in the presently approved outline scheme.”Paul VelluetAssistant Regional Director,Central and West London Team andRegional Architect, London Region

Nigel Moore ● 7002d

A bit more comment of interest, this is the letter sent in to Hounslow Planning by English Heritage on 17th October 2000"While I note that some of our previous concerns have been addressed by the revised proposals, in particular, the retention of The Brewery Tap public house and Town Wharf, and some minor improvements effected to the design of the pedestrian mall and the service yard to the rear of the supermarket, the majority of the points raised in our previous letters and discussed most recently at the meeting of 11 August, have yet to be addressed. In the light of this, we remain of the view that the proposals are fundamentally flawed and will fail to create a coherent development that will ensure the sustained regeneration of the area, both economically and environmentally, and reflect and complement the distinctive character of the area. Importantly, they do not acknowledge the other major development sites within the area, and, do not acknowledge the surviving grain and scale of this unique canalside area or its special character.Our concerns are as follows:Block size and pedestrian movementThe very large footprint of the proposed supermarket does not reflect the surviving scale and grain of this part of the site. Both Kim Wilkie Associates and Auketts have shown that there are opportunities to introduce larger blocks in locations in the eastern part of the site which already accommodate existing large buildings, thus avoiding the potentially adverse impact on the established character of the area. The revised proposals still fail to provide for effective and attractive pedestrian movement across the site, particularly in relation to north-south routes. At present, these are numerous, and are a characteristic and historic feature of the area. The particular locations of the east-west pedestrian routes, particularly those between the large retail/commercial blocks, many of which are little more than tunnels, or carried at high level are also of concern. These run to the rear of the supermarket and adjacent to service areas and car parks, and despite some modest changes, are likely to prove unpleasant and possibly dangerous to users, especially at night.Access and servicingThe proposed servicing/car park access arrangements would have a destructive impact on the surviving parts of the High Street and militate against the realisation of the fullest benefits from the development of the site. In the western part of the site, the proposed service-road requires the demolition of nos 131-134 High Street and the creation of an oversized junction. The loss of this nineteenth century terrace would further fragment the long established High Street frontage that survives in this part of the town, and militate against pedestrian movement along the High Street. Furthermore, the proposed new service road would run adjacent to the new residential development which is to be constructed as part of the scheme to repair and reuse St Lawrence’s Church and would have a potentially adverse impact on residential amenity, and possibly the viability of this scheme too. While the service area no longer abuts the canal, which is to be welcomed, the resultant space, which is in reality, a vehicle-turning head, would be reduced to a backland area offering little activity or interest.To the east, the other proposed service road which runs south from the Half Acre junction, is over-wide and has a poor relationship with the proposed adjacent buildings. To avoid fragmenting the High Street frontage yet further and creating another oversized junction, the access could take the form of an opening through or under a building, much as exists today. The currently proposed road and building layout require further thought to avoid the creation of a confused, semi-public backland area would be an unpleasant and potentially hostile pedestrian route.I note that a turning head has been created adjacent to the existing bank. Catherine Wheel Road is located in this area and was formed from Catherine Wheel Yard, which is shown on the 1800 of New Brentford and appears on Glovers’ 1635 map as Y Whele Wharfe. This is clearly a route of considerable historical significance and should be retained in its original position. I am also concerned that using this as a shared surface and turning head could provide confusing and possible dangerous to pedestrians. Proposed new buildingsThe proposed new residential buildings to the west of Town Wharf still appear to be confused, and would seem to have ground floors largely consisting of covered parking areas. To promote interest and activity around the water in this location, it would be better to have commercial uses at street level with residential units above. As previously stated the proposed loss of the rear part of the listed building nos. 129-130 High Street is unlikely to be acceptable.We are also concerned that a number of unlisted buildings of interest and value which we consider could add character to the proposed development and assist in its integration with the existing townscape, are to be lost. Most of these buildings have been previously identified by English Heritage and discussed in detail in Susie Barson’s report, a copy of which I have forwarded to your Council. Kim Wilkie has noted further buildings and others are included in the Aukett’s recent report; e.g. the Wilson and Kyles’s frontage building and the timber clad sheds on Johnson’s Island. In view of this, we consider that the extent of demolition should be reconsidered as most of these buildings clearly have potential for beneficial reuse.We still have concerns regarding the juxtaposition of the Dock Road housing in relation to the existing working industrial uses, as these would appear to be incompatible uses. In order to comment further on this part of the development, we would need to see further information on the heights of the buildings and levels, in particular, that of the basement/semi-basement parking area.I am also concerned that the sketch proposals show buildings of up to 6 storeys on the High Street frontage and 7 storeys off Dock Road, which would seem overlarge given the existing scale of these areas. We consider that further information on the height of the proposed buildings across the site as a whole, including cross-sections and elevations should be forwarded for consideration at this stage.The future of the Market PlaceEnglish Heritage has long pressed for the removal of car-parking from the area directly in front of and centred on the existing Magistrates Court (together with the enclosing balustrading) and the re-paving and re-use of the former Market Place as a significant, accessible and attractive public urban space at the very heart of Brentford.We consider that the absorption of The Market Place as but one small part of a larger ‘Town Square’, spanning across the busy High Street (on which significant vehicular traffic flow is likely to be maintained), together with the cutting-back of the building frontage line on the south side of the High Street, would not only lead to the complete loss in the special identity of the long-established ‘Market Place’, and the further fragmentation of the High Street, but would provide little more than incoherent and ill-defined space bisected by a major vehicular traffic route."

Nigel Moore ● 7002d

I’m going to make a few comments on this.The High St suffers from the misplaced enthusiasm of the post-war drive to modernise the town, at a time when councils had far more sweeping powers to effect their dreams. The blight that Brentford High St has suffered since, is a direct result of such unthinking drive for modernisation untutored by such reflections as Kim Wilkie has enunciated.“Modernisation” uninformed by such considerations of heritage results in wholesale replacement with the fleeting taste of the time, that soon goes out of fashion.From having a narrow, but marvellous High Street full of shop frontages deemed valuable enough to be preserved, literally, as museum pieces, we have been lumbered with a ghastly, sterile and charmless, dated street scene that no business really wants to invest in long term. They fold, and probably in more cases, disappear having used up the benefits of such inducements the council offered to open in the first place.That which was bulldozed and rebuilt as such horrors should be bulldozed again and replace with more sympathy to a sense of place and time. It has to be acknowledged that the damage done cannot be undone, but it can be mitigated somewhat.The reference to Jim’s enthusiasm for dilapidated buildings is, I submit, unfair. I completely agree that age of itself does not confer beauty, nor worth. I do not believe that Jim’s enthusiasm lies in the state of dilapidation of much that he has illustrated, but in the basic aesthetic appeal of many of the structures, that would be enhanced considerably by the application of considerate refurbishment.I can’t believe that anyone would disagree that Brentford is in need of another transformation, mainly to undo the terrible havoc that the previous one wreaked. But this needs to be carefully and thoughtfully entered into, with the respect for the sense of the town’s history and unique character that will ensure an enduring legacy appealing to future generations, in contrast to the dismal failure of the last attempt.I cannot express strongly enough my repudiation of the comment that regeneration “means sweeping away the vestiges of an industrial era that” …(is) … “no longer relevant to the world we are living in today.”In the first place, much of the remnants of the industrial era survive today because they are still highly relevant to our present world, and becoming increasingly so. In the second place, that which has not survived has failed, not through the irrelevance of the businesses, but through the deliberate removal of them in the hope of more profitable development. It is this impetus alone that has resulted in the present dereliction of past industry, a program that British Waterways have been continuing with respect to Commerce Road, refusing viable leases and evicting profitable businesses against their will. Thus seeking to hold the Council to ransom by declaring that such empty dereliction will continue unless their demands for reclassification are conceded.As for the “additional part of this reality –check”, I’m going to break a personal rule about courteous responses, and declare that this, in this case, is utter bullshit, however understandable I find the view for an outsider.None of the businesses on the High Street own the properties they deal from, with the exception of the most easterly ones occupying premises of an earlier vintage that any decent new scheme will keep. There will be no need for their purchase, and they will benefit as businesses only from a resurgance of interest in any regenerated High Street. The rest is owned by Hounslow Council itself.With regard to those behind the High Street, virtually all have long since sold out. The properties are already in the hands of the competing developers, and the few places left out of their hands are held by those with a genuine desire to keep a part of Brentford they have grown up with, and wish to preserve regardless of pecuniary blandishments. The dereliction we see today is artificially contrived and maintained by the would-be developers, who like BW on Commerce Road, prefer to see property disintegrate rather than have them locked up into profitable use for lengthy periods.They, truly, don’t “give a damn about the industrial/historical heritage of this town,” – but they are not local businesses holding out in the hope of a windfall. They are incompetent foreign speculators, seeking to launder money through anonymous off-the-shelf Pacific Island companies. It is those faceless ones who have destroyed so much in the hope of turning a swift buck, which hope has so far thankfully eluded them. And it’s the fact that no one body of these financial adventurers has succeeded in gaining all of the area, that has held up any progress, and for so long as these wolves squabble over the carcase, no progress will be made.It’s time, I believe, for the Council’s Strategic Planning Department to draw up a Site Brief for the area that will enable piecemeal development within an agreed overall framework. For this a strict and detailed brief will need to be drawn up.I stand by the sentiments expressed by Wilkie on the value of Brentford’s remaining heritage, for all that I feel he failed to demonstrate a practical way to capitalise on it.

Nigel Moore ● 7002d

Historical street maps show lanes (yards) running from the High Street to the Canalside. (Catherine Wheel Road..cutting across them came later?)  Nigel has asked me to post these pictures illustrating the Yard idea.1) The London Yard in Perth,Australia.ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo2) Alongside the Magpie Pub, an alleyway leads to what was a busy BOAR'S HEAD YARD..with many small houses..similar perhaps to the two that still remain at the Canalside. (one is used as a garage!) Boars Head Yard has been so named since 1635.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo3)PLOUGH YARD (That's new to me!!)Nigel says of Plough Yard:, a name dating back to the early 19th Century. There is rather a nice photo taken from almost the identical position when this was occupied by the tannery. The buildings on the right are the oldest, still as you see with remnants of hoists above the loading doors, while those on the left are more recent, but which could still be sympathetically renovated to be in keeping with all the attached industrial pipework etc stripped off. As you can see, it leads down to the waterside alongside my dock (screened here by wooden fencing), and down to the Brent itself. The bottom end of Boar's Head Yard is now walled off from the Brent by the necessary flood defence wall, but could still provide an outdoor raised area with views over.ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooWhere does one start??!!

Jim Lawes ● 7002d

On a general note, I find Kim Wilkie's comments on Heritage and its value for Brentford to be excellent:"Heritage is an awkward word. It suggests dead baggage. Struggling to escape the word though, is something vital and exciting - our culture and identity. As ideas grow and meander from one life to the next, they leave a ladder of writings, images and structures. These accumulating ideas reassure and inspire each next step. Heritage is about a thought process which is alive and changing; though the word itself may have come to sound like stagnant water.As culture and ideas move on does there come a point where the past becomes irrelevant or holds things back? As Britain becomes more culturally and ethnically diverse, does an essentially Anglo-Saxon and Christian heritage lose its resonance? Should the architecture and environment make a break with the past and reflect the cultures of those who have come to live in the island more recently? Or would that wipe away the diversity which makes the country so interesting? The story of the place can provide a continuity which allows all the changes to relate to one another as accumulating and communicating layers.A sense of continuity does not have to stop new ideas - just the opposite. The deeper the root, the greater the range of nutrients. When it comes to regenerating cities, the history and character of a place can make a big difference to the long term appeal. Redevelopments which are inspired by the identity of an area can capture a uniqueness which draws people long after the fizz of new buildings has passed. The polished granite and glass of eighties and nineties developments have a bland sameness throughout the world - a lack of personality - which limit their commercial attraction. They go out of fashion. Whereas the cities which have regenerated with some special flair or eccentricity stand out as places where people continue to choose to visit or invest. The canal areas of Manchester and Leeds have managed to stimulate new development which is fresh and original and links straight into the character and stories of each place. London is well poised to do the same. Clerkenwell has a new vigour which taps into rather than eradicates its scale and character. The Borough at London Bridge is regenerating powerfully around the ancient market and cathedral. Brentford is at a cross-roads. The grand visions of the 1970s have left the town bleak and unloved. The widening of the High Street turned the place into a traffic through-route, with no special focus or architectural character. Ironically, if the town had been left 'unimproved' thirty years ago and the mediaeval and eighteenth-century shop fronts had not been removed to the Museum of London, Brentford would now be in the forefront of the current economic boom in West London. The quandry today is how to regenerate the town where so little is left of its former character. Predictable multiplex cinema developments might bring immediate investment, but how long would it last? Brentford could become indistinguishable from Brent Cross. The extraordinary waterfronts and thriving boat building community which still survive in Brentford though, could be enough to inspire a development of real character and sustainability. Sustainable in terms of local community, local economy and long-term attraction, as well as capturing the essence of a place with a special history and character." Wilkie Assoc.s were the firm commissioned by English Heritage to come up with ideas to counter-act the ghastly mistake that was the Sth High St proposal.Read his comments in full at:http://www.kimwilkie.com/pages/issues/iss_valu_herit.html

Nigel Moore ● 7003d

Thanks for reviving this thread Nigel.“”Brentford is an area with pockets of great urban beauty which is danger of being destroyed by a history of ill-considered development. The potential in this area is fantastic with the Thames and the canals but it has largely been squandered. The biggest mistake has been to largely hide the river and block off public access with hideous offices and the unspeakable Watermans Arts Centre.”” LIZ BROWN“”Hear, hear Liz!As I pointed out in a previous posting connected with the Kew Bridge proposal, the majority of those campaigning actively came from outside Brentford. Historically, the disastrous sequence of developments since WW2 have been imposed on the inhabitants without a squawk from them. "Relatively supine" doesn't begin to cover it!”” NIGEL MOORE“”Well said Nigel, now is the time to be heard.Get out and start campaigning, if people in Brentford don’t it will end up a blob of expensive flats spread right across the town”” NEIL“”The problem has been and might still be is that the land due for re-development has been bought by conflicting developers. Take the South Side, it’s owned by two developers?””  NEILWell said all. I would join Nigel and Marion in the idea of developing the YARDS idea…so that the South Side retains some of its oldy worldy charm. Then we might be happy for the north side of the High Street (Commerce Road development) to be  as is planned.So: shall we agree to this modern look on the north side:OooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooIf they let us keep all the old and unique buildings on the South Side?For example ..THE GRINDING WORKSHOP..within the  Wilson & Kyle site

Jim Lawes ● 7003d