Forum Topic

Another Thames Water blunder or just plain arrogance?

The Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) has asked me to post the following in your Brentford forum just so that you can be prepared if you or your children are planning on visiting your neighbours in Isleworth or Twickenham TW7 during the holidays. (although you may be OK if you take a gas-mask)"Just as our schools start the Easter holiday and some of us take a break,  Thames Water has announced that it will start  draining down one of the Primary Settlement Tanks at Mogden Sewage Treatment Works on 3 April and you may expect an increased level of odour because of this work.  Incredible timing isn't it?   When one considers how previous Easter holidays have been ruined over the years by the unlawful odour from Mogden one wonders if this is yet another blunder by Mogden's management or simply another example of total lack of consideration for residents.In its latest newsletter Thames Water have finally admitted that it has only carried out 4 odour surveys at Mogden. This despite the fact that residents have been complaining for a decade. It is quite astounding that the first survey was only in 2002 some 15 months after the Abatement Notice was served in 2001. Also astounding that Thames Water has stated that odour at the site has reduced every year since 2002.  Not true we're afraid.  Results of the surveys actually showed that some of the processes showed increased odour year on year as the site deteriorated. Join the legal action against Thames Water now by contacting Hugh James Solicitors on freephone 0845 402 3257. Hugh James are taking cases on a 'no win no fee' basis and this high profile case is also being backed by the Legal Services Commission (formerly the Legal Aid Board).  Visit Hugh James website for more information www.hughjames.com or contact Mogden Residents Action Group by email at  complaints@mogden.org.ukThank you for your supportMogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) "

Steve Taylor ● 7247d32 Comments

Hi Steve.Sorry , but I stand by what I say, parts of Isleworth smell and others don't, and some of them quite patently don't smell of sewage, some of them smell of coffee and cereal! Far from accepting our plight as being par from the course, my reply is that some of us have not had the opportunity to live in such exotic places as yourself for one reason or another, and you, like everyone else, are doing the best that you can with your life and making the most of what life throws at you with the abilities and skills you are given or have developed. Did you not investigate the surrounding area before you purchased?  Not even to the extent of taking a walk around the town to see what other delights Isleworth held? As you lived in Chiswick, Barnes and Gunnesbury previously, didn't you have had a faint idea of the layout of the area?  Was it a case of "I wan' tha' one" to coin a well-known phrase, when you saw your house?  Not something that we did when buying our present house, we tried to find out as much about area as possible to supplement what we knew was there already.I absolutely and entirely agree that powerful corporations are able in some cases to abuse those unable to defend themselves.  There are no excuses.  Unfortunately there are still those people such as the tenants of the many council properties in the area who may have had no choice to move there as it may have been the only property that they were offered, and in many cases this will have provided them a support network as their families may have been living in the same area.  Many of the elderly will have raised their families and have happy memories and be in familiar surroundings, and the stress of challenging such corporations may not be exactly life enhancing considering the stress involved.  What happens if Thames Waster ships out?  does this mean that another town would have to tackle the same issues again?  What if they enlarged the works? Would this mean that may people would have to move out of their houses, perhaps under compulsory purchase and lose their support networks and memories?  The problems are varied and many.Otherwise, good luck with your pursuance of Thames Water and for the future, whether you remain in Isleworth or move on.

Christine Hooper ● 7170d

ChristineUnlike you and Jim, I am a relative 'newcomer' to the area having lived in Mile End, Gunnersbury, Chiswick, Barnes, Cape Town, Johannesburg,Oslo, Florence and  Madrid.  I love all the good things about Isleworth you have mentioned and I believe it is a wonderful community but I see absolutely no reason to put up with the bad things. In my book that's called complacency. No doubt I will move on from Isleworth in due course when my daughter finishes at her marvellous high school (The Green School) in a few years but while I am still here I will do everything possible to change things for the better for myself, my family and all those who support change for the better. Whilst in our wonderful democratic society everyone is entitled to their own views I find it very difficult to understand statements like "it was a "healthy" smell, and it had always been there, and they just got on with it"  Whilst it may indeed be sad that we live in times when  "litigation seems to be the only option"  is it not sad that we live in times when powerful corporations making £billions simply turn their backs on those suffering due to their own greed and isn't it not even more sad that 22 years ago some chose to simply accept their plight as being par for the course?There is no reason why one has to put up with smelly gasworks, carbon monoxides, noise etc etc. Obviously living on a flight path in a capital city is a world-wide phenomenon but a mismanaged, underfunded sewage works in the centre of a densely populated area is simply not on in my book.As Jim commented,  Mogden is a disgrace and Thames Water must either "shape up or ship out"  There simply are no excuses.

Steve Taylor ● 7170d

No Jim, I don't live in the area but my husband was born in his parent's bedroom on the Woodlands Estate, and lived there until we got married. His parents are still there.  Before that, it was his his Grandparent's home.  My in-laws haven't moved on because they like living in the area they're in and have all the regular reasons for it, like great transport links, social life, local theatre, doctors, a hospital near to hand, libraries, and when my husband was a boy, good schools, (the arguement for catchment areas has always rumbled on) Cubs, Scouts, and other sundry after school activities.  I can remember turning up there 22 years ago to meet my prospective in -laws, and commenting to my husband aboout the smell, his reply was that it was a "healthy" smell, and it had always been there, and they just got on with it.  Not a matter of complacency or neglect, but simply people bringing up their families and getting on with their everyday lives, and maybe this is the case nowadays with the majority of people, the houses on the estate and the surrounding areas are looking pretty good and well kept, people are obviously proud to be living there and possibly not too strung up about their resale prices.  I've no doubt the pong has got worse over the years, but might it not have something to do with the general workload of the sewage works increasing over the years with all the new builds and home improvement in the area which all have at least one toilet, if not two?  Me? I lived slap bang next to the Hogarth Roundabout when I lived in Chiswick.  Originally not through choice, I'm a Council House Kid by birth, and the genuine Chiswick article.  Since the block I was bought up in was built in 1951/2, the tenants had to endure more and more traffic and congestion - 40 foot articulated lorries were no fun rumbling past ageing Crittal windows which the Council replaced with triple glazing about 12 years ago, and a flight path right over the top of the properties, which although not as low as Isleworth or Hounslow, still sent vibrations through the house when Concorde and older styles of jet engine flew over, every day of the week.  And as you say, this is all a disgrace, and as you say, there are no noise controls whatsoever all the way up to Harvard Road and its environs or beyond! And we were never offered any insulation against noise from the aircraft either!  I totally agree with you!  Again, my parents chose to stay in the area because that's where their employment, friends, doctors and my schools were, they got on with their lives.  When I left school, my choice was to work at a Company based at the Hogarth Roundabout, and I am still there, thirty-one years later.  When I married my husband, and we had a choice where to live, we opted to buy a flat on the estate and keep an eye on my parents who were not enjoying the best of health.  Now we're in Brentford (and it's not a "gentrified" part, I think it may be the part that you commented on in another forum posting).  Again, we are employed locally, our social life is here, our friends are here, we have great transport links and are watching the various developments going on in the town with interest.  I enjoy living in the area.  I also enjoyed being in Chiswick.Like you Jim, I can remember what it was like round here - remember the gasworks in the High Street and how smelly they could be at times?  With respect to everyone who lives in the Mogden area, we seem to all be living in times when litigation seems to be the only option, and I think that's quite sad, not to say that sometimes it may need you to take out a type of  insurance policy with regard to no win no fee cases. I certainly don't think people should lump it as you suggest. I'm commenting on the fact that these are the times we live in and even if we were all fortunate enough to move to an idyllic life in the country we'd encounter problems ... like manure. If we moved to the coast we'd have to get used to the smell of seaweed dumped on the beach by the tide every day.  But who would you sue if you encountered this?

Christine Hooper ● 7170d

Christine  - it's not debatable or negotiable that Isleworth stinks of sewage. It's a fact and it has been found by Judge Stephen Day to be so. He has ruled that Thames Water is causing a nuisance by allowing malodour to escape its premises and he has ruled that the malodour is unlawful.  Also the fact that the river smells in Brentford and Chiswick is because Mogden cannot cope with the amount of sewage it undertook to process since closing its Kew site. The environmental agency has shown conclusively that Mogden regularly discharges raw sewage into the Thames when its storm tanks are full - a regular occurrence - thus the stinky river in Brentford and thus the regular fish-kills - see previous postings on this forum!Jim - thanks your input. I agree wholeheartedlySarah - it's astounding that the odour is now reaching Syon Hill. It just goes to show how out of control Thames Water have allowed the situation to become. MRAG have asked me to post its latest Legal Update as hereunder: Dear residents Brief update on events:Front page headlines and coverage in Richmond Times 9 June by Chris Briddon. Letters in BCI Times and RTT 9 June by MRAG chairman Trevor Whittall encouraging residents to change electricity and gas providers from those owned by RWE Thames - for more info details email mrag27@aol.com  Excellent  2 page case coverage in Hounslow Chronicle  15 June  by chief reporter Daniel Lyons Headline letter in BCI Times 16 June National coverage on Channel 4 news Friday 16 June by Nick Scott Plummer Sky News filming for national and international coverage next week  19/6And in the meantime........June 2006 has seen the highest number of odour complaints ever recorded for this time of the year (700% increase) Mosquitoes out of control again as Thames Water fails to take remedial action. Despite the overwhelming numbers of complaints forwarded to Thames Water, the company advise that it  "will no longer respond to complaints received via MRAG" Despite the overwhelming numbers of complaints forwarded to Hounslow Council, the council can only advise after an inspection on 15 June  "There were no operational problems at the sewage works at the time of the inspection but we did request that a storm water tank be flushed out to prevent the likelihood of odour" MRAG have voiced serious concerns at Hounslow Council's ability and handling of the situation and residents' expectations of the Environmental Services Department.  MRAG  committee will meet Hounslow management on 5 July. MRAG urges residents to continue to log complaints via our complaints emails:  complaints@mogden.org.uk or mrag27@aol.comRgdsMogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) MRAG2005 - Worst Summer on record for residents neighbouring Thames Water's Mogden site.2006 - Indications are that the current behaviour of Thames Water's Mogden Team will result in 2005 complaint levels being exceeded!for latest information on Mogden Residents Action Group go to OnLine Communities Ltd Website www.mogden.org.uk For News and Views on local community issues visit http://www.twickenham-online.co.uk/

Steve Taylor ● 7170d

Christine..I visit the Worton Road area of Isleworth almost daily..and I also travel all over the Borough. Last week Mogden stank awful. Thankfully ,I was only nearby 15 minutes. I couldn't wait to drive off.Some people have lived there for 25 years and more...perhaps before the Mogden excesses. Whilst your arguement about people moving into the area of say Isleworth or Chiswick..should be finding out about their disquietning environment before they moved in ..you must remember that many people have lived in the area for 50years, 60 years and more. And in my case 67 yrs!Mogden is a disgrace.  The night flights into Heathrow are a disgrace too. Over Isleworth 5600 flights travel overhead with their heavy loads between 4.30am and 6am.  Mrs Keen is hailing the recent decision to NOT INCREASE the number to 6300 as a victory!  We're looking for a reduction. It's a con. The report about the Heathrow Night Flights farce in this week's Brentford and Chiswick Times was a disgrace too. Chris Briddon's article reporting of the matter on page 5 was out of order. It lacked statistics. It just praised Mr and Mrs Keens' hard work!!  (With respects to Ruth Cadbury who had to do her solid efforts too).I lived in Chiswick for nearly 27 years..until the mid 1960's..and that included much time before the M4/A4 was built. The increasing noise of the traffic was never accompanied with noise barriers say backing on to Wolseley Gardens or Harvard Road,Churchfield Court, or Sutton Lane, or the back of Barrowgate Road, etc etc.  Your arguement seems to be that people should just lump it. Yes, some social housing has been built close to some of these disagreeable spots. But you can't really tell people living near Mogden to lump it.Do you live near it?

Jim Lawes ● 7170d

Its not so much ignorance as complacency or acceptance of mediocrity. It is a fact that Isleworth stinks of sewage and it is a fact that well over a thousand residents are taking legal action. Interestingly many of those people have moved from the area because of the stench but are claiming compensation because they had to drop their house price in order to sell or they sold because they simply weren't prepared to put up with it anymore. It is also interesting that the majority of the people taking legal action are relative 'newcomers' to the region. Why did they come to the area knowing that there was a Sewage Treatment Works in the area? Very simply because no doubt when they bought they weren't told by the vendor that there was a problem (I certainly wasn't) and also because this is after all the 21st century and we are in a first world country in a capital city.  No other first world country would expect its residents to suffer the blight inflicted upon residents by Thames Water. Australia for example has specific laws which dictate exclusion zones for dwellings around STW's. Singapore too has zones which may not be developed unless the site is totally covered. Mogden is unique and should not have been allowed to expand and get out of control as it has. Whilst long standing residents may have simply shrugged off the problem for years and accepted that Thames Water can make billions of profit whilst operating an environmental disaster area, others are not prepared to do so.  Most people I have spoken to didn't in their wildest dreams expect that the Local Authority would have allowed Thames Water to operate as it does and nobody expected the that the area would have been allowed to decay to such third world conditions. One also has to consider that many taking legal action are in council or housing association properties. They don't exactly have the freedom of choice as many other may. "Consider that every time you can smell sewage it is in fact a molecule of human excrement which has found its way up your nose and through to the back of your mouth and come to rest on your tongue - that's why you can also taste it - you are in fact eating it"  - Environmental Scientist -  No, it won't kill you but its charming isn't it?

Steve Taylor ● 7177d

"All this criticism of Thames seems to forget that it is a public company with shareholders and the primary responsibility of the directors is to meet their needs."Interesting opinion from Mr Hardacre - but NOT APPLICABLE.  Never forget that Thames Water is a 'regulated'  utilities company and is bound by Ofwat's various enforcement powers. In general terms the Director General of Water Services (replaced by the Water Services Regulation Authority on 1 April 2006) has the duty to exercise various powers imposed on it under statute  calculated  to further the consumer objective and to ensure that companies holding appointments under the WI Act as undertakers are able to secure "reasonable" returns on their capital and to finance the proper carrying out the functions of the water undertaker. As a regulated company having to calculate and submit its determination to the Authority - who then determines the increases Joe Public will have to endure - the consumer cannot be accountable for errors and omissions the utilities company may have made. It certainly is not acceptable for the directors of a 'regulated' company, being financed with rate payers money,  to meet the shareholders needs as their primary responsibility.  Yes, if the company performs well and makes bundles of money - let the shareholders have their dividends but if the company performs so badly as to be slated in the House of Lords - lets be critical and hold those responsible fully accountable. Today on Radio 4, Ofwat DG Philip Fletcher had as much to say about Severn Trent who have been accused recently of many things amongst which was overcharging and its failure to deal with customer complaints. Speculation today is that Severn could be fined up to £90 million but Mr Fletcher would not be drawn on that figure. The figure being bandied around on what Thames Water could be fined is £100 million.  If the shareholders don't like it they should look to their directors for answers and why they allowed things to go so terribly wrong.

Steve Taylor ● 7180d

All this criticism of Thames seems to forget that it is a public company with shareholders and the primary responsibility of the directors is to meet their needs. Thames may be losing a lot of water through leaks but the action to repair this will depend on what is considered in the best interests of the people who own the company. That a substantial amount of new building has taken place in their area does not oblige them to meet that need if the investment to do so would be uncommercial. It is not possible or indeed fair to weigh Thames Water with new obligations which weren't in the prospectus when the company was originally listed. If the level of leakage in the system was felt to be important then covenants should have been included that obliged the company to meet certain standards. This would have lowered the price that investors were willing to pay bringing in less money for the Treasury so it wasn't done.Thames actually invested more in the last financial year (£600 million+) than their profits (£385 million) and over the next 5 years they will be investing over £3bn. The water rates in London are much lower than other parts of the country despite the unique challenges that the area provides.The rights of faceless corporations may seem to be less important that the rights of individuals but if any Government embarks on the road of overriding them in response to a populist clamour they will soon be looking for the next target. These companies will be part of your pension scheme so ultimately you end up paying the price.

Mike Hardacre ● 7180d

And if Mr William E. Hughes is still confused about the Thames Water that has officially been warned by the House of Lords sub committee chairman, its the same Thames Water that has been losing a third of the water it supplies, its the same Thames Water which has had three 3 different Managing Directors in less than two years,  3 changes in West London Operations Managers, 5 changes in Catchment Managers, 2 changes is Wastewater Directors, 2 changes in External Affairs Directors and the same Thames Water whose owners, the German RWE Group are trying to sell off quickly!  We wonder why! Its the Thames Water that has had 7 Communications Managers in the last 5 years and who currently refuse to communicate directly with the community or respond to complaints. Its the same Thames Water that has banned local elected ward councillors from attending liaison meetings. I am not aware that it is undertaking a massive renovation of the water mains system. It may well be that it is taking some long overdue action as would be expected of any regulated company spending our money but what is a fact is that Thames Water has not met its leakage targets and the peers have called for Ofwat to set even tougher targets stressing  that new technology is available to improve leakage detection and repair techniques. Its the Thames Water that has been warned by the Lords 'no more excuses' I believe the problem was summed up rather aptly in a recent letter from one John Ridley, founder of the Crossness Engines Trust, when he stated that the problem does not date back to the 19th century (as Thames Water are quick tell us) It is a phenomena of 20th century greed and incompetence.

Steve Taylor ● 7181d

Interesting that Thames Water spokesman Nick Tennant has not commented on anything here but I suppose this is in itself an admission of just how pathetic the old excuses have become. The Evening Standard report today on the House of Lords sub-committee findings were also interesting if not predictable but at least it was good to hear that The Earl of Selborne has told Thames Water it must stop making excuses for the worst leakage rate in the country. He reiterated that the company must stop blaming factors such as the Victorian pipe network and London's clay soil. The House of Lords has now sent a clear message to Thames Water's CEO, Jeremy Pelczer, that "Thames Water are not meeting targets set by OFWAT and should clearly be fined for it". The report went on to say that "the Regulator could fine Thames Water more than £100 million, 10% of its regulated turnover of just over £1 billion,  if it fails to meet its target to cut leakage to 30% for the 2005-06 financial year" The pressure is now on Mr Pelczer to get his act together.  All eyes will also be on the Regulator Ofwat to ensure that appropriate action is taken.  In 2004 Defra Minister, Lord Larry Whitty, had to take Thames Water's then MD, John Sexton, to task  at a  meeting with various Defra officials,  MP's Vince Cable and Ann Keen and various environmentalists, Councillors and residents, including yours truly, over very serious environmental issues. Lord Whitty is now a non executive director of Ofwat so time has run out for Thames Water....  Sorry Nick - time for some real action - no more meaningless words or patronising little letters from your CEO treating us like 5 year olds with headers "Let's beat the drought together"  Yes of course we can all save water and yes of course we will save water - but  the leaking pipes - they're yours so get them fixed and get them fixed quickly or suffer the consequences.

Steve Taylor ● 7182d

OPEN LETTER TO THAMES WATERThames Water What a total disaster! Your Mogden Management team simply haven't a clue on how to handle the situation which is out of control. Message 1 told us that you would be draining down one of the Primary Settlement Tanks at Mogden Sewage Treatment Works between 3 and 5 April. Why start an odorous operation at the beginning of the school holidays when many children and parents were  at home? Message 2 told us that you didn't finish the work by 5 April.  Why not?  Surely you have some expertise in these matters? Do you not yet know how long it takes to drain a tank?  Surely you've had to drain down a tank before?  Perhaps not. Perhaps this is a first for you? Message 3 told us that you finished the work on 13 April.  That's 8 days behind schedule. A simple task and you can't maintain a schedule? Why such a delay? Message 4 - we didn't receive -  but no doubt you will have some plausible excuse for all horrendous odour which has been escaping your premises all evening on Good Friday 14th.  Is this  the after effects of draining down the tank or do you have yet another plant malfunction?  No standby team at Mogden over the Easter weekend again? Why not?  You seem intent on ruining yet another Easter Bank holiday  weekend for your neighbours. It is surely time to seek some help and advice from a company which has gone out of its way to address and solve the odour problems from its sites - namely Yorkshire Water.  Yorkshire Water have also successfully trialed the new odour sensing system which your R&D department have refused to investigate. What message are you trying to get across to residents. Another summer of misery as your Mogden team fails and fails and fails again?

Steve Taylor ● 7231d

And this afternoon Thames Water advised  that they haven't finished the work which was supposed to have been completed on 5 April.  They have now downed tools for the weekend  and  will be re-starting and completing this work between 10 and 13 April.  This work is to drain down a settlement tank, and it may lead to an increase in the level of odour at Mogden Sewage Treatment Works. Thames Water apologise for any inconvenience caused by this work. So there you have it - expect stench around Mogden for the ENTIRE school holiday. How could Thames have got it so wrong?  Surely by now they would know how long it takes to drain down a tank?  Obviously not - perhaps they haven't done it before. Perhaps they felt they didn't need to do much maintenance before residents commenced the legal proceedings!  In any event hereunder is an extract of an email sent by one frustrated resident (No - it wasn't me)  to Thames Water's CEO this evening.  Read it and weep for TW7!"With reference to the attached notification, there has already been an increase in odour - This evening at 6.00pm there was excessive and obnoxious odour nuisance from the site.  Why do residents have to suffer over the weekend whilst work stops? - This is supposed to be a 24 hour, 365 day operation - Does ''essential maintenance' not warrant paying staff to work over the weekend period, or is this considered too costly in overtime payments? - Every effort should be taken to avoid causing nuisance to residents and neighbours of your site - You have failed miserably yet again.Residents were not even notified that the work between 3rd & 5th April had not been completed in time, let alone that nuisance would be suffered over the weekend, until the attached notice was received - This is yet another  breach of your own procedures regarding notification to residents of potential odour nuisance from the site  - It demonstrates quite clearly your blatant disregard for the long suffering residents and neighbours of your site."

Steve Taylor ● 7242d

Kevin Your comments are much appreciated as they allow me to expand a little more. Obviously everyone has their own opinion but it is not blindingly obvious. I for one would have preferred that Thames did the work when my daughter and wife (who is a teacher) were not on holiday. That would have obviated the necessity for my daughter to have to travel to friends in other boroughs rather than have them at our house for fear of being stunk out. It would also have not been necessary for my wife to have to meet her friends in Richmond for lunch and spend a large proportion of her lowly salary.  However, I am but one amongst thousands and possibly thousands would agree with you. The point is that MRAG could have contacted thousands (for free by e-mail or via our webpages) and asked opinions. Thames Water should have contacted residents (in terms of the agreement made in court) and consulted with residents. Yes,  that may have cost something as probably around 35,000 residents would have to be consulted but residents are already paying for this service via the £40 million that Ofwat have authorised Thames to collect from you and me. Don't forget that as a regulated company if Thames can reduce its spend of the £40 million (of your money) allocated to Mogden odour - it is perfectly entitled to pocket the difference. The money is now theirs whether they spend it or not. Thus the question - a blunder? (in forgetting to liaise with residents in terms of the law) or just plain arrogance?  (in not caring about residents' concerns and blatantly flouting the law and profiteering by it)

Steve Taylor ● 7243d