Forum Topic

Smoke filled rooms and pre-election deals

Looking through the runners and riders for the local elections I was trying to work out what the various party's strategies were. The article on the front page seems to suggest Labour is safe but I can't see how such a slim majority in terms of seats, combined with an unpopular Labour government nationally how this can be right. It's pretty clear that the Lib Dems and the Conservatives have recognised that they need to co-operate to get Labour out and they are sending a clear message to voters who want a change of Council who to vote for. In most seats the Liberal Democrats are fielding one candidate where the Tories have three and vice versa.I suppose some hardcore members will say this deprives them of the chance to support the party of their choice but most will recommend that this is the pragmatic way to go about things.The ICG seem to have opted out or been excluded from this arrangement as I can't figure out what their strategy is. Why haven't they contested Brentford? They may have made themselves unpopular on this board but as they are so strong in Isleworth it would have seemed natural for them to target here. Instead they seem to be picking Conservative wards.I'm predicting a hung Council. This would be a good outcome as experience elsewhere suggests that 'no overall control' often means better governance than single party control. After decades of Labour misrule in Hounslow this would be great news for residents.

Mike Hardacre ● 6981d79 Comments

I don't seehow my behaviour qualifies as pathological dislike. I, like many others, have been critical of the behaviour of some of your members on this forum. The response has generally been to intensify the poor behaviour rather than admit that we may have a point. The gentlemen discussed earlier in this thread took it a stage further and was extremely abusive towards me. This has obviously left me less well disposed to your group than I might otherwise have been.This forum is here partly so that people like me can criticise or even ridicule the stances, opinions or actions of those that seek to represent us. Although I would freely admit to giving the ICG a much harder time recently than other parties the record shows that I have been quite prepared to have a go at your opponents. You have attracted attention to yourself by some of your associates' actions and to be honest it is fun to elicit some of the shrill paranoid responses that sometimes come back. The ICG position seems to be that I have presented myself as a apolitical objective individual over the last few years in order that my criticism would ultimately carry more weight when I revealed my true colours as a Labour placeman. That's self-evidently barking. You should be embarrassed by your position on the IsleworthTW7.com domain because it leaves you open to the suggestion that you are blocking the development of a valuable resource for the particular interests of your group. As I said before there is a way to prove people wrong on that score.I am speculating about the absence of the aforementioned member of the Labour party and I won't name him because like your colleague he has probably has no right of reply. I'm sure your guess is correct however and if you search on his name I think you'll find that I wasn't slow to criticise him when he was behaving in an unacceptable manner. You perhaps should consider that people will sometimes criticise you not for political advantage but because you are actually getting it wrong.It may surprise you that I would actually like to see the Isleworth group do well next month. For all his childish sulks and paranoia Cllr. Andrews is clearly a very able man and probably would be a benefit to the borough in a cabinet role in a cross party executive. It is certainly time for a change.

Dan Evans ● 6977d

This is really something of a non-issue. I called up the company who run this site just to ask them a few questions mainly on the technical side which is my primary area of interest with a possible view to seeing if they would be interested in me working with them. They were very amiable and open and you should talk to them first before launching a crusade on their behalf.I did ask about the IsleworthTW7.com issue and they said that whilst they'd always listen to proposals for new sites their thrust was to link up the existing network of sites geographically. Their plan for 2006 was for six new sites and all were to the east or south of Brentford where they felt there was more chance of a web site of being commercially viable. I got the impression they were a bit wary of expanding in this borough any more because the Council weren't as supportive as in other areas and according to the moderators BrentfordTW8.com accounts for 70% of their work even though the forum is less than 5% of traffic.They have been having problems with the development of new architecture for the site with the project now nearly a year overdue. If they can get it to work it will be quite interesting although my own impression was that they may have been over-ambitious in their aims given their lack of resources.  This isn't just me being annoyed that they didn't offer me a job!The reality is that IsleworthTW7.com isn't likely to happen for at least two years even if Phil Andrews was willing to co-operate.

Andy Jones ● 6977d

Peter, thank you for finally giving me the answer I was looking for. Sorry for the delay in replying - having a job can be a bit of a constraint on participating on internet forums. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that these people lack the courage to reveal themselves after the election. It does bring to mind a very unpleasant picture but let's not go there.The reason I asked for the membership of the ICG committee pertained to the ongoing discussion about IsleworthTW7.com. James de Vivenot raised the question as to why there couldn't be a site for the Isleworth area like the one we have for Brentford. It emerged in that thread that the ICG had bought the IsleworthTW7.com domain and others in the borough because they feared at the time of its launch that BrentfordTW8.com would become a propaganda tool for the Labour party. In the event it didn't and it also emerged in the course of the discussion that we had been misled when people told us that this site was owned and controlled by the Labour party. In fact it belongs to a private company with no political affiliations. In response to further questions by local residents on the matter Phil Andrews said that the committee of his group 'might consider' transferring the domain on certain conditions. (As far as I am aware this is a purely hypothetical question as there is nothing to indicate he has actually been asked to do so.) This was a surprising response given that most people would agree that BrentfordTW8.com is a good thing and a similar site for Isleworth would be an asset to the area. Surely the approach of the ICG should have been to initiate a request that a site should be launched in their area and offer help and support rather than domain squatting.Like others I was perplexed by this stance but then I was reminded of the sustained attempt by an ICG member to close this forum down by posting literally hundreds of messages, many of which were abusive. He was angry at having been banned for what he claimed were political reasons but what most other participants recognised was an inability to debate with others in a civilised fashion. Quite rightly he was roundly condemned from all corners, including fellow members of the ICG. We were led to believe that as a result of this outrageous behaviour he had left the group but your post seems to suggest that not only has he rejoined but has been promoted! Presumably as he sits on the committee which would make the decision on whether or not to get the company that runs this site to launch one in Isleworth he would veto it as he would probably not be allowed to participate on it.

Dan Evans ● 6978d

First of all, please let me make it clear precisely where I am coming from.  I am a member of the ICG and any bias I may have is towards that organisation.  I believe that when debating these issues one is entitled to know the score.The ICG is contesting eight seats in four wards - Syon, Isleworth, Hounslow South and Osterley & Spring Grove.  In the first two we are fielding full slates of candidates, in each of the last two we are fielding one candidate only.There is absolutely no question of the ICG "targeting Tory wards".  Despite its being a purely local organisation the ICG is far too professional and single-minded to entertain ideas about using a crucial election campaign to exact "revenge" on anybody.  The ICG's strategy has been carefully thought through, and in fact is no secret for anybody who wants to hear it.In ISLEWORTH the ICG holds all three seats with a large majority.  Only Labour can make any pretence to being a credible challenger.  In spite of this fact the Conservatives have chosen to field three candidates who will take votes which for the large part would otherwise probably have gone to the ICG.  Nevertheless I do not hear Mike berating them for threatening to "let Labour in through the back door".  I presume that nobody has a problem understanding the ICG's stategy in fielding three candidates in Isleworth.In SYON the ICG came a close second behind Labour in 2002, with the Liberal Democrats some way behind in third and the Tories running last.  The Tories have done little if any work in the ward during the intervening period and there is no good reason to presume that they will achieve a higher vote than either Labour or the ICG on May 4th.  The new developments are substantial, but not substantial enough to affect the Labour vs. ICG status quo.  The "best" the Tories can expect is to take enough votes which would otherwise have gone to the ICG to keep the ward in Labour's hands.  Yet Mike criticises US for targeting the ward.In HOUNSLOW SOUTH Labour holds two seats and the Conservatives one.  However the last time the ward went to the polls the ICG polled higher than the Conservatives.  On the basis of the above both the Conservatives and ourselves have a valid claim to be Labour's primary challenger in the ward.My understanding is that the ICG made a tentative approach to the Conservatives about three months ago to explore whether or not there was any scope for reaching an understanding.  My information is that the Conservatives did discuss the matter but politely rejected the suggestion, insisting that it had a duty to its supporters to field three candidates everywhere (a duty which it has subsequently failed to honour elsewhere).Under the circumstances the ICG would have been morally justified in fielding a full slate of candidates, and in so doing could no more reasonably have been accused of "splitting the vote" than could the Conservatives.  In spite of this, the ICG opted to make a unilateral gesture of good faith by nominating just one candidate.  We want Labour out as badly as anybody else, but we also have our pride.  Under the circumstances I believe we demonstrated generosity of spirit, considering the fact that the Conservatives have yet to give us any formal indication whatsoever that they would be prepared to work with us anyway in the event of a hung council.In OSTERLEY & SPRING GROVE the Conservatives won all three seats comfortably in 2002 in spite of the fact that the ICG fielded a full slate, and held the ward even more securely in last year's by-election in a four-way contest in which we were involved.The "moral duty to our supporters" argument employed by the Conservatives in Isleworth must apply equally to the ICG in Osterley & Spring Grove.  There is no danger of Labour winning seats in the ward.  In the event of the ICG failing to capture a seat the Conservatives will hold all three.  The fact that we are fielding just one candidate as opposed to all three will make this even more likely.The point of my argument is that those who accuse the ICG of "splitting the vote", seeking "revenge", or "targeting Conservative wards" begin with the assumption that the Conservatives and other "proper" political parties have some kind of superior right to engage in the democratic process to other groups such as our own.  We refute this.  Although we could, and would under other circumstances, operate outside of the elecoral process as a pressure group, we have as much right as anybody else to participate should we so choose.Our strategy is aimed at targeting Labour wards and, in the absence of any co-operation or tangible goodwill, at satisfying honour in Conservative or mixed wards whilst minimising the risk of a Labour vicotry as much as we can under the circumstances.As for any likely alliances after the election in the event of a hung council, we have neither reached nor sought any agreements with any other party or group at this stage.  It is something we will address if and when the situation arises.  However, it is manifestly unreasonable to expect us to adjust our strategies to suit the interests of organisations who keep us out of the loop and in the dark as to their own intentions.

Account suspended ● 6979d

Despite, so I am told, being a bit of a bete noir for Phil Andrews and the ICG I do think it would have been a good idea for the Liberal Democrats and the Tories to have given them a clearer run at Syon ward as they performed so well last time out. I presume the ICG's targetting of Tory wards is 'revenge' for their failure to agree terms on dividing up wards which is pointlessly vindictive but somehow predictable.The London Communications report seems at this stage to have got it right but not because, as Karen claims Labour have been so brilliant but because the opposition are so feckless. If Labour did lose Hounslow it would now be reflective of an absolute annihilation of the party across the country and probably mean the resignation of Tony Blair within the week.A couple of months ago the assumption of most people would have been that Labour couldn't have possibly have hung on to Hounslow and a more pragmatic opposition would have ensured this by putting their differences aside. Although I have many reservations about Cllr Andrews himself he would have made a very effective Cabinet member of a cross party group ruling the Council. That said I think we should be careful of taking what Councillors say about who they would or wouldn't be willing to work with. The Tories and Lib Dems may be claiming they won't partner with the ICG now but what's the betting that it will be a big group hug when they are faced with the proposition of four more years in opposition.

Dan Evans ● 6979d

You are correct to spot that a deal has been hatched between the two opposition parties. I don't see how effective it is likely to be. In 2002 the Lib Dems attracted a substantial amount of support because of anger over the Iraq war. Many of them are likely to return to Labour particularly if the only alternative is a Tory. The London Communications report is recognising that the administration of the borough under Labour has been of a high quality. The London School of Economics participated in this report and it is a view shared by the Audit Commission. For this reason despite a relatively small majority and a likely national swing against Labour they are saying that Labour will retain control unlike in other boroughs across London.The ICG's strategy, if you can call it that, is to try and take control of the Isleworth and Brentford area committee. This is why they are aiming at Tory seats rather than Labour ones. The Tories have preferred to co-operate with their Labour colleagues on the committee rather than the ICG which has enraged Phil Andrews. If the ICG take control of the committee they will have control of local planning matters and a significant capital spending budget.The Tory/Lib Dem pact is likely to have deliberately excluded the ICG as neither party wants to work with them. I am told that under Iain Duncan Smith local Tories did raise the possibility of co-operation with Phil Andrews but IDS was under huge pressure at that time due to racist statements by Tory backwoodsmen. A possible alliance with a former leading member of the National Front with a conviction for violence would have had the press in a frenzy. I don't think that under the more 'user-friendly' regime of David Cameron that the position will have changed.I don't agree that 'No Overall Control' leads to good local governance. It usually results in the focus of the Council being on political horse trading and it slows up the whole process of Government. Most decisions are taken on the grounds of political expediency rather than what is best for residents.

Nicola Brown ● 6980d